Sunday, April 7, 2024

Voltaire and Marx Were NOT Medieval Historians

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Danièle Cybulskie, Historian of the Middle Ages · Voltaire and Marx Were NOT Medieval Historians · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Welsh Viking on Medieval Peasants — He's Occasionally Inaccurate or Off

There are lots of people who have their interests in destroying the reputation of the Middle Ages. Let's start with politics. By now, religious people who have this shtick mainly, mostly, perhaps except Jews and Muslims, but at least for Christians in Europe, have it via politics. If they have joined religions that encourage it, they have often done so after their school days.

First we have Enlightened Despotism, preached by Voltaire and Kant, realised by Frederick the Great, a man able to murder Germans by iniquitous warfare, because they preferred to be ruled by Maria Theresia (Silesian wars, during one of which the probably last Catholic priest was killed on European soil on orders of a Protestant King — before Revolutions and Sovietism, that is — namely Blessed Andrew Faulhaber, who refused to tell the Confession Secret of a deserter, a man who had left Frederick's robber army without joining Maria Theresias, simply not fighting either way). Frederick did not act like a Protestant fanatic who considered the Mass a blasphemy, he acted like a Silovik, considering the seal of confession and the absolution probably given to a deserter without requiring him to get back to his troops, as sabotage of the state monopoly of violence.

Then we have Marxism of the old Soviet and Social Democrat schools. I mean prior to some 70's Euro-Marxists, who actually did some real history. These latter ones, understandably, had a disgust for Frederick II that surpassed any ill feelings against the Middle Ages. They were consequently defending the Middle Ages, on many accounts (sometimes with obligate distance taking from the Inquisition, though), and in doing so they were joined by Catholics, even very conservative ones. No, I do not talk of 70's Euro-Marxists, I talk of old school Marxists. Text books of Sweden, when Olof Palme (Socialdemocrat Workers' Party, SAP*) was Minister of Ecclesiastic Affairs or of the Soviet Union, and later under Tito**, Ceaucescu, Honegger, Dubček or Husák, Władysław Gomułka, and so on.

Not all Classical liberals would agree, but some, those most promoting Industrial Capitalism were pretending the conditions prior to it were inhuman, and as the conditions under Industrial Capitalism have long been inhuman enough to fan Communist resentments, the inhumanity of the Middle Ages had to be correspondingly exaggerated, which kind of historiography was the source for Marx' own description of "Feudalism" in some*** chapter of Das Kapital. Also, not all Classical liberals would support the French Revolution, nor all French Revolutionaries Classical liberalism. The French Revolutionaries were using the same critique of the Middle Ages as Voltaire had given Frederick, and were consequently basically clamouring for a populist and non-monarchic version of Enlightened Despotism. Non-monarchic not being the most practical system of government in a land the size of France, and especially not in times of turmoil that the Revolution had usshered in (like Silesian Wars, but on a largers scale), the system was then perfected by a certain Napoleon Bonaparte.

A side remark on the latter. I do not know of any real attempt of gematrically linking Napoleon Bonaparte to 666. In War and Peace, Tolstoy° describes a character who had come to hear of a Masonic secret°° code making "l'Empereur Napoléon" into 666. Since English propaganda was out trying to present Napoleon as "the Beast" (something I know from Austrian, but not Swedish school books), if they had had a valid gematria°°° linking his name, with or without title, to 666, they would presumably have published it and it would be known.

Then we have all the religious enemies of Roman Catholicism. A Muslim is likely to say the Caliphate provided bathing and hygiene, but the Christian Medieval Kingdoms sacked that. Dissing baths is actually a phenomenon from late 1400's or early 1500's reaching to the times of George Washington. It didn't mean a lack of hygiene, but it meant a less simple and to some less accessible procedure. A Waldensian would argue the Alpine valleys of Lombardy were clean, but the Medieval cities like Turin and Nice, or at least Milan and Aix, were filthy. A Jew could claim the Jewry of Carpentras or the Ghetto of Rome was clean, while the Christian parts of these cites were filthy. Some of them might rely on Medieval Jewish descriptions, involving mentions of ritual uncleanness, and not make the distinction. And so on.

Each if these religions, and each of the political movements I described, apart from Catholic Conservatives and post-70's Euro-Marxists, would like to pretend serfs were suffering a horribly bad deal. I'll not share the two videos which were giving wildly inaccurate informations on some levels, but I'll share my objections before I dismissed them, also there under the videos.

I 1:36 You have put three dots on Scandinavia, one on Sweden, two on Norway.

It so happens, Sweden and Norway never had serfs. They had thralls fairly long (Sweden abolished thralls in 1351), who technically were slaves, but never had serfs.

I think there is some kind of incompetence in your research.

II "on top of the burden of working his own 2:46 land to feed his family serve had to spend about three days each week working on the land of his Lord"

Let's do some mathematics.

You assume, incorrectly, all of the peasant population were serfs. This is incorrect to start with, but you will not quarrel with the idea 75 % of the general population were serfs, and 95 % were some kind of farmers, including serfs.

You then pretend a serf worked 3 out of 6 work days per week on the land of his lord.

First of all, a serf has to feed himself and his family. Second, the worst possible (way beyond actual, since there were non-serf peasants) is, he also had to feed the remaining 25 %, via his lord, who gained money by selling to city dwellers, something the serf, supposedly, couldn't do.

That would make each serf feed himself and 1/3, his family and 1/3 family. Three serfs with families fed a total of four people with families, on your view.

As the serf mainly fed his family via his own work, how come he has to work half the time to feed others, when it should only be a quarter of the time? Your figures do not really add up.

Perhaps there was some socialism involved. Perhaps the landlord was reserving himself the not just right but also realistic opportunity to feed serfs when they ran out of their own supplies, so as to bind them in gratitude. But realistically, it could not be that the men who (apart from soldiers, fishermen and lumberjacks) did the hardest work were less well fed than everyone else.

That they were less well fed than the soldiers is possible, but would not normally involve starving serfs. They didn't live on Auschwitz conditions. Nor the conditions of Catholic tenants during the potato famine in Ireland. Nor the conditions of early industrial workers in Manchester who didn't need all that strength, since machines were taking over important parts of their tasks.

I call your bluff. Cite your sources!

I am not holding my breath they will do that. If they did, it is too likely it would be a 70's textbook of history, the kind of thing the historians of the last decades have tried to but largely failed to change.

Instead, I will here link to a video which actually does try to make a difference against this background of ignorance. I'm only 11:26 into it, but I already like it.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Dominica in albis

Here is the video:

How Feudalism never existed: The Tyranny of a Construct | Medieval History Documentary
Viator in Terra | 21 Dec. 2022

* The Swedish abbreviation stands for "Socialdemokratiska Arbetare-Partiet."
** If I have come out as supporting his economic system, in defense of Carlos Hugo, this nowise extends to his school system.
*** No, I don't know which chapter, I am however certain, there was such a part, describing Liberalism or Capitalism as a progress from Feudalism, making things better, when arguably it instead made things worse for the farming majority of the population.
° Whose present day relative is highly scathing on French volunteers in the Ukraine or possibly future regular soldiers ("don't worry, we'll kill them all") ...
°° The Apocalypse belongs to all, and unlike dates for the second coming, pointing out present day very likely candidates of the Antichrist is specifically authorised in that book. Masons have no right to demand secrecy, and the only "code" needed is one linking the letters of the alphabet to number values, and that neither being ad hoc nor secret. Alpha, beta, gamma and aleph, beth, gimel spell 1, 2, 3. (Binary versions of) 65, 66, 67 spell out A, B, C, as 97, 98, 99 do for a, b, c. Each binary number can be respelled as a decimal number. So, Greek, Hebrew and Latin spellings are fair game, and the last of these in ASCII.
°°° Like "Ο Απόλλωνας" gives 1332 or 2*666 in a valid, simple Greek alphanumeric gematria.

Sunday, March 17, 2024

Latein und Romanisch

Antworten nach Sorte: Mitterer Deutsch / Croatisch UND Latein / Französisch · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Latein und Romanisch

Zunächst, ich habe diese Theorie nicht erfunden, sondern gelesen, in einem Buch aus der 30-er bis 50-er (denke ich, warscheinlich 40-er) Jahren, welches im Klassischen Institut der Universität Lund im Keller sich befand.

Zur Illustration. Später Text, warscheinlich schon romanisch gesprochen, mit einer etwa 200 Jahre jüngere Aussprache:

Historiarum Francorum libri X
Liber II 5. De Aravatio episcopo et Chunis.

Ich nehme an, 1) der Lautstand der Aussprache war zur Zeit des hl. Gregor nicht nur Proto-Romanisch, sondern wenigstens Gallo-Romanisch, und 200 Jahre später, in Tours, Langue d'oïl. 2) Im geschriebenem Latein kamen Compromissen vor, um einige lateinische Formen zu ermöglichen, aber war sonst mit der völkischen Aussprache identisch, dagegen war die Diktion und Syntax verschieden, wie auch bis vor kurzem zwischen Dhimotiki und Katharevousa, oder zwischen Ukrainisch und Kirchslavisch mit ukrainischer Aussprache.

Und, 3) diese Identität der Aussprache wird geändert, absichtlich, vom hl. Alcuin von Tours. Das "local appeal" der Aussprache wird dabei dem "international appeal" geopfert. Die lokale Sprache wird plötzlich dem Latein gegenüber eine fremde Mundart, ein Patois, die sogenannte "lingua romana rustica" des Synods von 813. Die neue Aussprache, die Alcuin als Fremdsprache erlernt hatte, ist die die wir als Mittellatein kennen, wesentlich ein Latein Italiens in England um 600 umgepflanzt, und dann als Fremdsprache vereinfacht, d. h. der Schrift noch angenähert. Daher auch die Endung -um die wie deutsch "um" lautet, statt ein -u~ im portugisischen Sinne auszumachen.

Ich gebe unter der Schrift zunächst die als schriftgemäß empfundene Aussprache, so wie ich den Sachverhalt verstehe, wie sie vor Alcuins Ankunft war, dann eine volkstümliche, wobei ich denke das zwischen den beiden, so wie auch heute zwischen Dhimotiki und Katharevousa, Zwischen-Stufen existierten. Diese Brücken der beiden Sprachebenen verschwinden dann wie auch die Identität der Aussprache, nach Alcuin. Enjoy (oder auch nicht, stehe aus, dann)!/HGL

Igitur rumor erat, Chunos in Galliis velle prorumpere.
[i:ð@r rüm@r ert, hüns e~ galy@s vel proröm~pr@]
[rüm@r ert or, els hüns vulei@n röm~pr@ a l@s galy@s.]

Erat autem tunc temporis apud Tungrus oppidum
[ert ton~k tem~pr@s av@ð tön~gr@s oppið]
[ert or don~k ten~s a la citeð tön~gr@s]

Aravatius eximiae sanctitatis episcopus,
[araveis@s, eksiny@ sain~teð@s evesk@v@s]
[araveis, evesk@ grande sain~teð]

qui vigiliis ac ieiuniis vacans,
[ki vely@s a djewn@s vakan~s]
[ki vakan~t e~ vely@s e djewn@s]

crebro lacrimarum imbre perfusus,
[krevr@ l@rmar em~br@ perfüs@s]
[perfüs@s pluy@ espes larm@s]

Domini misericordiam praecabatur,
[donn@ miserkord@ preyav@r]
[preyav@ miserkord@ don]

ne umquam gentem hanc incredulam sibique semper indignam in Galliis venire permitterit.
[nei ön~k@ djen~t@ an~k en~krëül@ s@vik@ e~diny@ e~ galy@s venir permetr@]
[ke n@ ön~k@ tçest@ djen~t@ e~fiel e e~diny@ s@ permet@ venir a galy@s]

Sed sentiens per spiritum,
[seð sensie~s p@r esperið]
[meis senten~t p@r esperið]

pro dilictis populi sibi hoc non fuisse concessum,
[pru d@lit@s pövl@ s@ ok no füs kontçes]
[k@ pru d@lit@s pövl@ tçest no füð kontçes]

consilium habuit expetendi urbem Romanam,
[kon~sely@ aot espeðen@ ürp ruman@]
[aot kon~sely@ espeðir la citeð ruman@]

scilicet ut, adiunctam sibi apostolicae virtutis patrocinia,
[stsilist üt adjon~t@ s@vi apostri@ vertüd@s persiny@]
[a saveir k@ s@ adjon~t@ la proteksy@ vertüð apostr@]

quae humiliter ad Domini misericordiam flagitabat, mereretur facilius obtinere.
[ke: öm~bl@t@r a donn@ miserkord@ fleyèv@, meriðr@ fatsily@s ot@ner]
[ke öm~bl@men~t fleyèv@ miserkord@ don, meris@ plüs fatsilmen~t la ot@nir]

Accedens ergo ad beati apostoli tumolum,
[aksiðes erk a beèð apostr@ töm~bl@]
[don~k @ksiðen~t a beèð töm~b@ apostr@]

depraecabatur auxilium bonitatis eius,
[dipreyav@ð@r oksely@ bon~tèð@s eys]
[dipreyèv@ð ayuð@ se@ bon~tèð]

in multa abstinentia, maximae inaedia se consumens,
[e~ mult@ ostinents@, maksim ineðy@ se ko~sumes]
[e~ mult@ ostinents@, se ko~sumen~t grand@ fèm]

ita ut bidui triduique sine ullo cibo putuque maneret,
[ið@ üð biðw@ triðwik@ se~ ul@ tsiw@ puðuk@ m@ner@]
[manyèr@ a m@ner se~ alkü~ nütremen~t e puð dows e treys djurn@s]

nec esset intervallum aliquod, in quo ab oratione cessaret.
[ney ess e~terval alk@, e~ k@ av oratsyo~ tsessar]
[e no~ seye alk@ e~terval, e~ k@ tsessast orar]

Cumque ibidem per multorum dierum spatia in tali adflictione moraretur,
[kön~k@ evið per multor djèr spatsy@ e~ tal afliksyo~ mur@reð@r]
[kom la per spatsy@ mults djurn@s mureð e~ tal afliksyo~]

fertur hoc a beato apostolo accepisse responsum:
[fert@r ok a beèð apostr@ aktsevis respon~s@]
[fert@r ke prist tsest@ respon~s@ per beèð apostr@]

'Quid me, vir sanctissime, inquietas?
[k@ mei, ber sein~tiss@m, en~kyèt@s]
[ber mult sein~t, k@ mei en~kyèt@s]

Ecce! enim apud Domini deliberationem prursus sanccitum est,
[ets! en av@ð Domn@ delivratsyo~ prurs@s sen~tsið est]
[ets! Est detsideð per delivratsyo~ Domn]

Chunos in Gallias advenire easque maxima tempestate debere depopulari.
[hü:ns e~ galy@s avenir yask@ masim@ ten~steð deveir depövlèr]
[k@ avyeny@n li hü:n e~ galy@s et k@ tsel@ deveir estr@ depövlèð@ e~ gran~d@ tem~pest@]

Nunc igitur sume consilium,
[nön~k i:ð@r süm konsely@]
[tön~k pren konsely@]

accelera velociter,
[akselèr@ b@lotstr@]
[akselèr@ rapið@]

ordena domum tuam,
[urdèn@ dom tü@]
[urdon@ tü@ meisyo~]

sepulturam conpone,
[seveltür@ kom~po~]
[kom~poz@ tü@ sevültür@]

require lentiamina munda!
[r@kyèr len~syamn@ mön~d@]
[r@kyèr len~sy@s propr@s]

Ecce! enim migraberis a corpore,
[ets! en migrèvr@s a korpr@]
[ets! tü migrèr èv@s de korps]

nec videbunt oculi tui mala,
[ney veðeyv@n oly@ tü@ mal@]
[e non veðer èv@n tü@ oly@ lu mal]

quae facturi sunt Chuni in Galliis,
[ke feytür son hü:n e~ galy@s]
[k@ feyr@ èv@n li hü:n e~ galy@s]

sicut locutus est dominus Deus noster'.
[si: luküts est domn@s djews nostr@]
[en~si: k@ don~s nostr@ djews dist]

Hoc a sancto apostolo pontifex responso suscepto,
[ok a sein~t apostr@ pon~tifis repon~s@ süstseft]
[el pontif avyen~t rets@vüð tsest@ repon~s@ del sein~t apostr@]

iter accelerat Galliasque velociter repetit,
[eð@r akselèr@ galyask@ b@lotstr@ repest]
[akselèr@ vei@ e rapið@ retchertch@ galy@s]

veniensque ad urbem Tungrorum,
[venye~sk@ að ürp tön~gror]
[e venien~t a tsiteð tön~gr@s]

quae erant necessaria sepulturae secum citius levat,
[ke ert netsessèr@ seveltür@ sey tsitsy@s lèv@]
[k@ ert netsessèr@ a seveltür@ lèv@ ko~ sey rapið@]

valedicensque clericis ac reliquis civibus urbis,
[valditse~sk@ klerts@s a relk@s tsiv@ ürv@s]
[dist val als klerks eð als altr@s tsiteðin~d]

denuntiat cum fletu et lamentatione,
[denön~ts@ ko fleð e l@mentatsyo~]
[enön~ts@ kom~ plours e l@mentatsyo~]

quia non visuri essent ultra faciem illius.
[key@ no vezür ess@n öltr@ fatsy@ ley@s]
[k@ no veðer èv@n öltr@ sü@ fats]

At ille cum heiulato magno et lacrimis prosequentes supplecabant humili praece, dicentes:
[að il ko eylèð many e larm@s prusewen~t@s supleyèv@n öm~bl@ prey, ditsents]
[meis il ko many l@mentatsyo~ a larm@s supleyèv@n öm~bl@ preyèr@, ditsents]

'Ne derelinquas nos, pater sanctae, ne obliviscaris nostri, pastor bonae!'
[nei derelink@s nu:s, pèð@r sein~t, ne uvliskèr@s nostr@, pastr@ bo~]
[no leish@ nu:s, pèð@r sein~t, no uvli@ nu:s, pastr@ bo~]

Sed cum eum fletibus revocare non possent,
[seð ko~ yo fleð@v@s revokar no~ poss@n]
[meis kan~t lu no poss@n revokar ko~ plours]

accepta benedictione cum osculis, redierunt.
[aktset@ ben~ditsyo~ ko~ oskl@s, reyèr@n]
[aktsetèr@n la ben~ditsyo~ ko~ beis@s e reyèr@n]

Hic vero ad Treiectinsem urbem accedens,
[i: ver a treyeðe~s ürp aktseðe~s]
[meis il aktseð a la tsiteð trey@]

modica pulsatus febre,
[moð@y@ pusseð@s fyèvr@]
[pusseð@ fyèvr@ p@tit@]

recessit a corpore,
[retsest a korpr@]
[retsest de korps]

ablutusque a fidelibus,
[avluðusk@ a fiðyèl@v@s]
[laveð@s per fiðyèl@s]

iuxta ipsum agerem publicum est sepultus.
[yust@ iss eir@ püvlik@ est sevülð@s]
[yust@ meðesm@ tchamp püvlik@ est sev@lið@s]

Cuius beatum corpus qualiter post multorum temporum spatia sit translatum, in libro Miraculorum scripsimus.
[kuy@s beyeð korps kèl@ð@r pos multor tempr@ spatsy@ seð traslèð, e~ livr@ mireilor eskrism@s]
[de kel el beyeð korps kom@ pos mults ten~s spatsy@ sei@ traslèð, eskrism@s e~ lu livr@ mireil@s]

Saturday, February 24, 2024

The Jewish Tolkien and His Fantasy Country

OK, mostly he didn't write fantasy, he mostly did thrillers, things like Stephen King.

I've said Goldman. William Goldman.

But once, he ventured into the realm of Faërie. When he did, he was clearly as brilliant as Tolkien. The Princess Bride. Originally written for his two daughters and he wrote the screenplay himself. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that the novel came out September 1st* 1973, in Chicago, while it may already have been September 2nd in England, the day when J. R. R. Tolkien died.

I think, the connexion doesn't quite cease here. Fourteen years later, The Princess Bride became a film. Then the film smoldered under the ashes for another ten years, and became a huge hit through video, ten years after the release in theatres. That year, 1997, a certain Peter Jackson acquired the rights for doing The Lord of the Rings, and his The Fellowship of the Ring was released four years (a lustrum) after that. That is, 28 years after Tolkien died and The Princess Bride was published. Anyone noticed a similarity of appearance between Inigo Montoya and Aragorn? In the films, of course.

There are parallels too in multiple attempts at making the film, the difference being, for The Princess Bride, the masterpiece was not preceded by any ... Ralph Bakshi, for instance, not to mention even worse ones.

And there is the technique, in both there is world building. They seemingly, according to critics**, both convey that the world went on before the scenes opened and goes on after they have closed. In both there is map drawing.

But in some other fashions, The Princess Bride would be closer to a novel by Lloyd Alexander. We deal with Ruritanian fantasy, not with actual supernatural entities. Now, most Ruritanians are set in our world. Ruritania. Syldavia (and Borduria). Bretzelburg. Grand Kudpein. Vulgaria. But while Lloyd Alexander has a whole series of Ruritanias visited by Vesper Holly, he also has the Ruritanias in the Westmark trilogy, and the setting of The Marvelous Misadventures of Sebastian — Ruritanias without connexion to our geography. That is also the case with ... well, not quite ... Guilder and Florin.

It so happens, before the Netherlands switched to the Euro money, their currency was known as Guilder ... but the coins were marked with an FL, which stood for Florin. Two countries, around a marine strait, are on the map*** marked as Guilder and Florin. Shall we think Netherlands, Curaçao and Sint Maartens or Surinam? Perhaps most of all, what kind of abuse is adressed. Syldavia, Bretzelburg and Grand Kudpein (all written by French speakers) have a huge part for police brutality and dictatorship. Like Westmark and the unnamed country where Sebastian roamed. Lloyd Alexander had a French wife after all. But the purely English or American ones, by Anthony Hope, Ian Fleming, and, obviously, William Goldman, feature abuse involving the family. Anthony Hope allows a double of the King of Ruritania to stand in while he is imprisoned, to avoid usurpation. This double, Rudolf Rassendyll, turns out to be a much gentler husband than Rudolf V of Ruritania. So, in a way, Anthony Hope was making a point against toxic masculinity and abusive husbands.

Vulgaria has the child catchers. I think Ian Fleming was making a point against abortion and child protective services, especially as they targetted certain traveller populations.

Florin ... let's be clear that while Count Tyrone Rugen tortures people, it becomes easier for Prince Humperdinck° to basically force Buttercup into a marriage. Sounds a bit like psychiatry to me. Meanwhile, one hero, though not the protagonist, roughly equivalent to Athos in The Three Musketeers, has a fairly Catholic name. Inigo, son of Dominick .... a reference to the founders of Society of Jesus and Order of Preachers?

Montoya is a Basque surname. It originally comes from a hamlet near Berantevilla in Álava, in the Basque region of northern Spain. During the Reconquista, it extended southwards throughout Castille and Andalusia. The name roughly translates to mean hills and valleys. It has become more frequent among Gitanos than among the general Spanish population.

One father and son or uncle and nephew couple are Ramón and Carlos Montoya, Flamenco artists, not totally out of the way considering there are real life Humperdinck's connected to music too: Engelbert Humperdinck the composer, Engelbert Humperdinck the singer. We also have:

Gabriel Montoya (20 October 1868, in Alès – 7 October 1914, in Castres) was a French singer, chansonnier and lyricist.

Joseph Montoya is less likely, a politician ... did you know a founder of an order also existed of the name Montoya?

Laura Montoya, in full María Laura de Jesús Montoya Upegui, (26 May 1874 – 21 October 1949), religious name Laura of Saint Catherine of Siena, was a Colombian Roman Catholic religious sister and the founder of the Congregation of the Missionary Sisters of the Immaculate Virgin Mary and Saint Catherine of Siena (1914). She was well known for her work with Indigenous peoples and for acting as a strong role model for South American girls.

And, whether Flamenco artists, or gipsies or Catholics, psychiatry in Protestant countries hasn't been too gentle on them. Count Tyrone Rugen ... is he a standin for a shrink, like Baron and Baroness Bomburst for abortion and child protective services? Or was William Goldman prophetic without knowing it? There has been a murder victim Eliud Montoya, and a bandit, Diego León Montoya Sánchez, since the publication of the book. I guess I'd have to read the book first, but one thing is certain : the oppressed population of Florin is not representative of the actual Middle Ages.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Vigil of St. Mathias

* On This Day: The Princess Bride Publication Date
Veronique Manfredini – September 1st, 2021

** For The Lord of the Rings, I'm one of those critics. As for The Princess Bride, I have neither seen the film, nor read the novel. But I have seen extracts, by youtube suggesting after I went from the theme in Jack Sparrow to one by Mark Knopfler in The Princess Bride.

*** Yes, like lots of fantasy, The Princess Bride has a map.

° The name is a Westphalian version of Huniberting ... descendant of Hunibert. Which means "bright warrior" or "bright Hun" ...

Monday, February 19, 2024

I Haven't Read James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake, But I Can Tell You What It Is About

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: I Haven't Read James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake, But I Can Tell You What It Is About · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Does Gwledig Simply Mean Nationalist?

So can any Irishman. Which I don't have the honour to be one.

[Now, the format of this post is like some of those on Assorted Retorts. 1) I link to a video. 2) Which I had watched. And commented on. 3) And below the video I share my comments. Each one usually begins with a time stamp in bold]

The 5 Most Difficult Books Ever! (Fiction)
Drawn to Books | 1 Dec. 2023

0:21 Are two or just one of them by James Joyce?

2:18 Here is at least one James Joyce. Ulysses?

[nope, Faulkner]

6:09 Ah, two of them were by Joyce.

AND another guy wrote Stream of Consciousness.

6:48 was Joyce a moderately structural conlanger? Does his language have a consistent grammar?

8:23 I have attempted a very different Finnegan's Wake. It's probably about the exact same guy.

Wake = when the corpse is laid out, open coffin, the night before the funeral.

It's kind of a fun occasion in Irish traditions, so the refrain goes "lot's of fun at Finnegan's wake" ... but in the exact final stanzas we hear :

1) a bottle of whiskey gets smashed
2) it spills onto the mouth of "dead" Finnegan
3) who is thereby provoked to actually wake up, because he wasn't so dead after all.

That in itself is a joke on the exact meaning of the Irish word for Whiskey.

Distilled alcohol was known in Latin as aqua vitae ("water of life"). This was translated into Old Irish as uisce beatha, which became uisce beatha (Irish pronunciation: [ˈɪʃcə ˈbʲahə]) in Irish and uisge beatha [ˈɯʃkʲə ˈbɛhə] in Scottish Gaelic.

While the dead are awaiting the resurrection of the second coming, the living may speculate on what means Jesus will use to wake them up. Trumpets? Fair enough. But I guess Finnegan is a parody figure of the guy of whom they say "a trumpet couldn't wake him up" ... "well, perhaps some water of life could?" ... "oh yeah, it would totally work on him!"

Finnegan's Wake (the song) spells out this joke in an interrupted attempted burial, not very far from the humour of Der liebe Augustin.

After what you've just told me, Joyce was trying to do the stream of counsciousness of a man who was unconscious, to wit, Finnegan, the one of the song.

Finnegan's wake the song:

Finnegans Wake - The Irish Rovers
CArghlhoavp | 7 marzo 2011

8:23 bis

I think you forgot some really unreadable books.

Moebius. As they are graphic novels, they sell very well on the pictorial beauty (which is like a mix of Wizards / Coonskin and Walt Disney / Don Bluth).

But the story is not very clear even for being told in pictures, it's like Alice in Wonderland can't be real dreams, because it's not as confusing as Moebius.

On the pictorial qualities of Moebius, one may add Blueberry too.

Wait ... that's because Blueberry is also Moebius. I was thinking mainly of his Arzak works ... Blueberry is his Western (also not the most readable Westerns, plotwise).

Tuesday, February 13, 2024

Indo-European Branches for I and II p. Plural, Pronouns

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Proto-IE or Sprachbund? Dialogue with Josef G. Mitterer · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Indo-European Branches for I and II p. Plural, Pronouns · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: An Anti-Christian Bumped in On My Dialogue with Mitterer, Starting with a Red Flag · Continuing with Mitterer · More Mitterer · Mitterer isn't tired, nor am I

I suggested to Josef G. Mitterer that a hypothetic Sprachbund involving Swedish, English and Italian would:

  • eliminate all forms in V- (I Eng/Sw, II Ital)
  • eliminate all forms in N- (I Ital, II Sw)
  • repurpose the remaining forms for I plural, all of them object forms, so that the Italian object form became subject form.

It is a conundrum in Indo-European linguistics why for I p. plural and II p. plural we find so diverse forms, and especially why Germanic languages seem to have W- / V- forms for I p. plural, while Romance and Slavic have them for II p. plural. It is obviously less of a conundrum why Swedish on top of that has an N form for II p. plural, since it's derived from the normal Germanic Y- / J- form. I = ye = ihr. Viljen I > vilje Ni > vilja (pl) / vill (sg polite) Ni.

Josef G. Mitterer observed that no Sprachbund is known to have been harmonising pronouns the way I suggested in my hypothetic example. So, let's look at the real case of the "branches" of Indo-European. I am now going to group them from South-East to North-West, starting with Romance / Slavic. Then Albanian and Greek. Then Lithuanian. Then Germanic apart from Swedish, then Swedish. For Greek, I am going with a very old form. Homeric or Doric, from memory. The endings -es can also be -eis.

Obviously, we can leave Irish out of it. Sinn, sibh, siad seems to be a series which is very independent of the rest. Perhaps it has a connection with Romance / Slavic after the initial si-, but the initial si- sets the system so much apart from the rest, that confusion with the other pronouns is not possible. Welsh seems partly connected to Romance, ni chi nhw.

 I pl subj I pl obj II pl subj II pl obj
Lat nos nos vos vos
Pol my nas wy was
Greek ammes ammes ummes ummes
Alb ne na ju ju
Lith mes mus jūs jus
Engl we us ye you
Swed vi oss ni er

So, Germanic, the only language group that has W- / V- in I p. pl. is originally separated from Latin by sth like Welsh or Greek or Albanian, and from Slavic by sth like Lithuanian.

Every early neighbourhood of more than one language group counted as "branch" of Indo-European avoids direct conflict. I take it as given the Germanic peoples were 2000 years ago separated from Italic peoples by Celts, Ligurians, Rhaetians and Etruscans. Even much later, Germanic peoples are still prior to AD 1000 often separated from Slavs by Baltic or Finnic peoples.

Indo-Europeanists who believe in the PIE thesis obviously have their (sometimes rather roundabout) theories of how "we" and "uns" and "nos" come from the same PIE etymon. And how vos and you did so. But it is easier to assume that we deal with only partially harmonised Sprachbünder, each case of two neighbouring groups avoiding to have "pronouns in conflict" like we find between Swedish and French.

If we take a look at the possessives of Swedish "vi" and Latin "vos" one could imagine a risk of conflict in neighbouring areas between "vester" and "vår" but ... English and High German, from very early stages, avoid the conflict by dropping the V- before an initial U-.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Pancake Tuesday

Sunday, February 11, 2024

Was Luther the First to Use Standard Hochdeutsch as Language of a Bible Translation?

Since I have been on the internet, which happened c. 23 years ago, early 2001, I have more than once been challenged by Protestants on Catholicism supposedly banning Bible translations to the vernacular. I have also more than once referred to the fact I was reading in Konvertitenkatechismus, 1950, by the Jesuits of Paderborn. Before Luther's translation there were already 18 German translations* in print, 14 in "Hochdeutsch" and 4 in "Niederdeutsch".

Sometimes this fact has been acknowledged even by Protestant adversaries. "Yes," they will say, "the Catholics did translate, but only into very narrow dialects that hardly anyone understands."

They will give a quote from a Bavarian or Alsatian translation from prior to Luther, and then the same passage in Luther's Bible. Unless you yourself speak the dialect in question, you are guaranteed to understand Luther's Bible better.

I have then tried to explain something to them. This time, I'm documenting it. Please, keep in mind, the Middle Ages in Germany officially ended on the 30 October 1517, just shortly before Luther translated his Bible, on the day when he nailed the 95 Theses. That's how central, for good or for ill, Luther is to German history.

6:05 — 6:33
Im Mittelalter gab es keine allgemeingültige, geschriebene, deutsche Standardsprache, sondern nur sogenannte Schreibsprachen, die in einem größeren aber regional begrenzten Dialektgebiet, wie dem Bayrischen, dem Alemanischen, dem Mitteldeutschen in Gebrauch waren. Die Bestimmung der Schreibsprache einer Handschrift bietet ein hervorragendes Mittel deren Entstehungsgeschichte einzugrenzen.

Mittelalterliche Handschriften mit dem Leipziger Handschriftenzentrum verstehen lernen
Universitätsbibliothek Leipzig | 5. Sept. 2022

I translate:

In the Middle Ages, there was no universal, written, German standard language, but instead only so called Schreibsprachen ["writing languages"], which were in use in a larger, but regionally limited Dialect area, like the Bavarian, the Alemannic, the Middle German ones. To determine the Schreibsprache of a Manuscript allows us an excellent means for circumscribing its history of composition.

This was still the case. Luther was not using an already extant German standard language, which everyone in all of Germany had learned in school, just that no one had made a Bible translation to it yet, Luther was using one among several other Schreibsprachen.

We can note that since the Thirty Years War brought Protestants from the North and Catholics from the South in very intense contact with each other (on the battlefield, in mutual prisoners of war exchanges, etc, etc), the German language tended to unify. This war started in 1618, 101 years minus a few months after the theses. Part of the unification was taken care of by the North already having a unified language through the Luther Bible. So, the modern German standard language certainly is daughter to Luther's German to some extent, but it's not ancestor of it. The other contributors do include Martin Opitz, born in Bolesławiec or Bunzlau, far closer to Breslau (present-day Wrocław) than to Wittenberg, a Lutheran, Angelus Silesius, born in Breslau itself, a Catholic, Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen, born in Gelnhausen, in Hesse, who worked as a regiment secretary during the war, and who before writing his ultrafamous novel Simplicius Simplicissimus (something like a mixture of Don Quixote, Gargantua, and Candide) had also resided in Strassburg and in the Black Forest / Renchen / Baden-Würtenberg. So, Luther's dialect area is basically in for about half of the influences, and the other ones are on opposite sides of it. The result is closer to Luther's German than to Bavarian prior to Luther or Alsatian prior to Luther. That's why Luther's Bible seems so much more comprehensible now than the ones I have seen quoted on such occasions.

But this was not exactly the case for everyone back then.

Luther himself claimed that the Saxon Chancery had a Schreibsprache which was understood by all Germans. Well, some language pairs are assymetric in mutual comprehension, it is possible that back then a Bavarian would have been better off reading Luther's German, than a Saxon reading Bavarian written German. Luther's claim is not totally beyond the possible. But it was also not an obvious truth that everyone back then would have immediately realised when he started reading and writing, even before Luther made the claim. By now, we are no longer in a position to test the claim.

But distorting his claim into the proposition that everyone was able to read Goethe and Schiller, had they existed, but for some quirky reason Catholic clergy preferred to translate only for obscure dialect areas and leave most Germans out of a Bible of their own is just not true. It is as said possible that a Bavarian would have had an easier time reading Genesis 11:1 through 9** in Luther's Bible, than a Wittenberger reading it in an already extant Bavarian Bible. It is however certain that a Wittenberger would have understood it better in Luther's Bible, and a Bavarian better in a Bavarian Bible.

The English clergy's relation to Lollards and to Bible translations, as we have it reported from accounts of the Coventry trials, is absolutely an English thing, Germany had no Catholic problem with the vernacular, and the Catholic backlash Luther faced was not for a German translation, but for his German translation and specific translation choices. My first doubt about Luther's integrity as a Christian theologian actually came when reading his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, or extracts of it, in a German anthology for secondary education. In that sense, Luther not only made me a speaker of German (a language which would not have existed as it does without him), but also a Roman Catholic.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Quinquagesima L.D.

* See also:

"Deutschsprachige Bibeln vor Luther? Diese erstaunte Frage ist häufig zu hören, gilt doch der Reformator weithin als der Übersetzer der Bibel ins Deutsche. Doch bereits vor Luther wurden 18 deutsche Bibelausgaben gedruckt. Elf Jahre nach dem Erscheinen der Gutenberg-Bibel entstand 1466 mit der Mentelin-Bibel in Straßburg das Erste dieser Kleinode der frühen Buchdruckerkunst. Bis 1522 wurden Bibeln in Augsburg, Nürnberg, Köln, Straßburg, Lübeck und Halberstadt hergestellt. Sie fanden ihren Markt beim aufstrebenden Bürgertum der Städte, aber auch die große Zahl der »Leutpriester« brauchte Bibeln in der Volkssprache, denn Latein verstanden diese in der Regel nicht."

** I take a theologically neutral text as an example, the first mistranslation of it is in Charles XII's Bible, in which they removed "in the East" instead of "from the East" and it's only recently come to relevance.

Wednesday, February 7, 2024

For KJV, No. Against Sinaiticus, Yes.

I know JW's love Sinaiticus.

I just saw a video by David W. Daniels. It was against Sinaiticus.* I then was intending to leave a comment there, but put it here instead:

I believe good things about Alexandrians, and about the "seven extra books".

I believe Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, if genuine, are genuinely made by heretics back then, and therefore laid aside.

So, using Sinaiticus and Vaticanus to take away verses would be a bad thing even if you totally do trust the LXX tradition.

I am far less impressed by Tischendorf.**

A Trinity affirming verse out of the one or both. And Tischendorf's mentor, Georg Benedikt Winer,*** seems to have been anti-Trinitarian.

Meanwhile, I am Catholic, and I have argued the Bible identifies its number of books as 73 overall.° Not in a way which would have been obvious then, but one which is obvious now that we have English miles and even more modern kilometers. Maybe you'd like to take a book at David W. Daniels' book.°° It reads nice in the sample:

So, I don't trust Jack Chick's The Death Cookie one bit. But just because David W. Daniels had bad judgement on that one, apparently, doesn't mean I have to mistrust him on his own research./HGL

° Does the Bible Say How Many Books It Has?
°° Who Faked the "World's Oldest Bible"?

Monday, February 5, 2024

Narnia, Dates, Links to Text (no illustrations), Original Publishers

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
October 16th, 1950

Prince Caspian
October 15th, 1951

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
September 15th, 1952

The Silver Chair
September 7th, 1953

The Horse and His Boy
September 6th, 1954

The Magician's Nephew
May 5th, 1955

The Last Battle
September 4th, 1956

This book is in the public domain in Canada, and is made available to you DRM-free. You may do whatever you like with this book, but mostly we hope you will read it.

Geoffrey Bles:
Bles entered publishing in 1923. Geoffrey Bles Limited were general publishers, but with a specialism in religion and translated works. Among the authors Bles published were: C.S. Lewis, J.B. Phillips, Cecil Street, Mabel Lethbridge, Halliday Sutherland, Vicki Baum,[5] and Maria von Trapp.[6]

The Bodley Head:
Herbert George Jenkins was a manager at the firm during the first decade of the twentieth century, before leaving to set up his own publishing house in 1912.[2] The Bodley Head became a private company in 1921. In 1926 it published the Book of Bodley Head Verse, an anthology edited by J. B. Priestley. The firm published some mainstream popular authors such as Arnold Bennett and Agatha Christie and the book series, Twentieth Century Library (edited by V. K. Krishna Menon),[3][4] but ran into financial difficulties. Allen Lane, John Lane's nephew who had inherited control, left in 1936 to found Penguin Books. Before Allen Lane's new company was established, however, he published the first Penguins in 1935 under the imprint of The Bodley Head. Both "Penguin Books" and "The Bodley Head" appeared on the cover.

The Bodley Head continued after 1936 backed by a consortium of Allen & Unwin, Jonathan Cape, and J. M. Dent. In 1941, John Lane the Bodley Head took over two smaller publishing houses, Gerald Howe Ltd and Martin Hopkinson & Co., whose authors included Cecil Day Lewis and H. L. Mencken.[5]

Saturday, January 27, 2024

What's the Craic? The Crack of Doom!

The Irish and Hiberno-English word and the English word are both cognates of German Krach, both come from a Middle English word "crak" which means noise or hubbub ...

In other words, the words are cognates of German Krach.

Was soll der Krach? and What's the craic? are basically the same question : "what's all the noise about" ...

And in case you thought doomsday was going to be a silent and intimate event, think again.

For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first.
[1 Thessalonians 4:15]

Trumpet's don't sound like piccolo flutes, they sound, well, brassy.

I suppose an Irishman will wake up and ask "what's the craic?" and a German will ask "was soll der Krach?" ... on the Crack of Doom./HGL

Wednesday, January 17, 2024

Sometimes Chesterton was Wrong

I don't mean wrong about ultimate essentials. You cannot be "sometimes" wrong about those. I mean details.

Here I spotted a historical blooper, and if he's in heaven, as I hope he is (getting him out of purgatory for gluttony could otherwise be a daunting task, but I believe in his innocence), ora pro nobis, he'll forgive me for correcting that one.

Now the trouble of the nineteenth century very largely came from the loss of this; the loss of what we may call the natural and heathen mysticism. When modern critics say that Julius Caesar did not believe in Jupiter, or that Pope Leo did not believe in Catholicism, they overlook an essential difference between those ages and ours. Perhaps Julius did not believe in Jupiter; but he did not disbelieve in Jupiter. There was nothing in his philosophy, or the philosophy of that age, that could forbid him to think that there was a spirit personal and predominant in the world. But the modern materialists are not permitted to doubt; they are forbidden to believe. Hence, while the heathen might avail himself of accidental omens, queer coincidences or casual dreams, without knowing for certain whether they were really hints from heaven or premonitory movements in his own brain, the modern Christian turned heathen must not entertain such notions at all, but must reject the oracle as the altar. The modern sceptic was drugged against all that was natural in the supernatural. And this was why the modern tyrant marched upon his doom, as a tyrant literally pagan might possibly not have done.

Caesar pretty certainly disbelieved in Jupiter quite as much as Gretta Vosper disbelieves in Christ.

There was no such thing as a "philosophy of the age" in his day, since there were no modern school systems. In the nineteenth century, you did have one, and those who were outside it, yes, that existed, usually did not bother readers of their works or readers about their life work with references to their divergent philosophy. When they did, that was marked out as something quaint. Something to be patronised. A biography or interview with a village sage could happen, but the foreword made sure he was not to be confused with the sages of the universities, whom people had come to be told were what they should look to guidance for.

All that was different for old Romans. The nearest they came to having a "philosophy of the age" was having some different competing "fashionable philosophies" which in his day were Stoics and Epicureans, both of which disbelieved in Jupiter. Or rather, they could "believe in Jupiter" in certain moments, just for the mood, in make-believe, but their philosophy very certainly told both of these that the Jupiter Homer and Virgil wrote of did not exist.

I am not sure which of these Caesar was more fond of, I think that in a Japanese fashion, he was fond of both, and for both of their reasons, was not fond of a literal belief in Jupiter. He was an augur, and as such one of the augurs of whom Cicero said (I think it was Cicero) that two augurs cannot meet without a grin. At each other's and their own antics.

Anyway, this affords this university educated man, I really took Latin and yesterday, I understood the first half of Exulta Lusitania Felix, until it tired me, I don't have the same fluency as in English or in French, the opportunity to do homage to Chesterton who was an Art School educated man, and to the men he did homage to as victims of Capitalist evils (the ones that had built the 19th C.)

It also affords me the occasion to most formally protest againt the idea that the hagiographers of the Bible were like [Caesar's attitude on] Jupiter. It was only in later times that Sadduceism became fashionable, and even then the writer of II Maccabees takes issue with it.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Chair of St. Peter

Cathedra sancti Petri Apostoli, qua primum Romae sedit. Ibidem passio sanctae Priscae, Virginis et Martyris; quae sub Claudio Imperatore, post multa tormenta, martyrio coronata est.

PS, I'm off to check whether St. Volusian lived between St. Martin and the time of Clovis.

PPS, indeed, he was the third successor of St. Brice, just before Tours was finally salvaged from Arianism by Clovis./HGL

PPPS, before I forget it, here is the link to Eugenics and Other Evils, from which I quoted part II, chapter IV:

Eugenics and Other Evils
by G.K. Chesterton, 1922

PPPPS, I did a few corrections after signing, like two misspellings and an added phrase in square brackets. I'm still a bit tired this morning.

[Sur Göbekli Tepe]

Göbekli Tepe n'est pas unique, c'est le propos du documentaire à ce moment :

J'ai fait des flèches vers le détail pour faire une remarque.

Göbekli Tepe se trouve juste à côte de Şanlıurfa, marqué sur la carte.

Là, il y a aussi une plaine. Vert foncé marque une élévation assez basse, entouré ici par des élévations plus hautes.

À l'Ouest de cette plaine, on voit l'Euphrate. À la limite, l'Euphrate se trouve encore plus au nord que les parties visibles sur la carte.

À l'Est de cette plaine, on voit le Tigre. À la limite, le Tigre se trouve encore plus au nord que les parties visibles sur la carte.

La région entre Tigre et Euphrate s'appelle en Grec la Mésopotamie. En Hébreu, on dit (c'est au moins mon avis sur la signification du nom) Sennaar.

À Göbekli Tepe, il y a une plaine dans le pays de Sennaar. À Babylone classique, celle découverte par Woolley, en Iraq, pas loin de Baghdad, c'est plutôt le pays de Sennaar qui se trouve dans une plaine.

Pour prouver les cours de Tigre et Euphrate qui débutent plus au nord que Göbekli Tepe, consultons la wikipédie pour les cours ... et pour la location unique de Göbekli Tepe

  • le Tigre

    • source : 38° 13′ 49″ N, 40° 10′ 34″ E
    • embouchure : 31° 00′ 20″ N, 47° 26′ 29″ E

  • l'Euphrate

    • source : 38° 52′ 29″ N, 38° 47′ 38″ E
    • confluence : 30° 25′ 29″ N, 48° 10′ 08″ E

  • Göbekli Tepe : 37° 13′ 23″ nord, 38° 55′ 21″ est

Donc, même si ça ne se voit pas sur la carte, la plaine ne déborde pas de la Mésopotamie par le nord.

Retour au propos du documentaire : le Babel de la Genèse, chapitre 11, ne devrait pas être unique. Parce qu'il est identique à celui de Genèse 10.

Le commencement de son empire fut Babel, Arach, Achad et Chalanné au pays de Sennaar. De ce pays[37] il alla en Assur, et bâtit Ninive, Rechoboth-Ir, Chalé, et Résen, entre Ninive et Chalé ; c’est la grande ville. (chapitre 10)

On aime imaginer que "ce pays" se trouve vers Babylone classique, et que le voyage en Assur, ou d'Assur comme bâtisseur (on peut aussi traduire "de ce pays alla Assur") était un voyage vers le nord-ouest. C'est aussi possible, et de certains d'autres côtés préférable, que "ce pays" se trouve dans l'endroit que je viens de marquer, dont je viens de parler.

Étant partis de l’Orient[39], les hommes trouvèrent une plaine dans le pays de Sennaar, et ils s’y établirent. (chapitre 11)

Comme le note la note, la Septante et la Vulgate traduisent, et le texte Hébreu se prête à la traduction, "[é]tant partis de l’Orient". Göbekli Tepe est accessible à partir des Montagnes de l'Armenie par un voyage partant, en effet, de l'Orient. Miqqedem. Je pense que les traductions "du côté de l'Orient" qui sont indubitables dans d'autres parties de la Bible sont tous sans un verbum movendi. Sans verbe ou avec un verbe statique, une langue donné, je pense que c'est le cas en Hébreu, peut utiliser une phrase ou un adverbe voulant dire "de X" pour dire "du côté d'X" mais quand il y a quelqu'un ou quelque chose qui bouge dans la phrase, par exzmple "étant partis" ... le sens devrait se retrouver dans le sens primaire "de X" .../HGL

Notes 37 et 39 de la Genèse Crampon :

37 On traduit d’ordinaire (LXX, Vulgate, etc.), de ce pays sortit Assur, qui bâtit, etc. Mais tout indique qu’Assur désigne ici un pays, non un homme, et que l’historien achève dans ce verset sa notice sur Nemrod.
39 Étant partis de l’Orient. Ainsi traduisent les Septante et la Vulgate ; le texte hébreu se prête à cette traduction. On traduit souvent néanmoins : étant allés du côté de l’Orient.

La vidéo, pas encore regardée, mais technique et sans doute assez bien informée et ne partageant pas (ouvertement jusqu'ici) mon propos, est celle-ci, je donne la signature de temps:

Saturday, January 13, 2024

La secte des Druzes n'existait pas au temps de Jésus, mais leurs ancêtres, par contre oui

Religion: des tests ADN approfondissent un peu plus le mystère sur Saint Suaire de Jésus Christ
26 oct. 2015, 13:40 / Màj. le 26 oct. 2015 à 14:09

De l'ADN végétal et humain a été retrouvé sur la relique. Les traces végétales proviennent des quatre coins du globe, de l'Amérique du Nord à l'Extrême-Orient. Côté humain, le spectre s'étend de l'Afrique du Nord à la Chine.

C'est ce qu'on appelle contamination.

Mais les traces les plus nombreuses viennent du Moyen-Orient et du Caucase, soit dans la région où le corps de Jésus a été enterré. "C'est de l'ADN typique des Druzes, originaires d'Egypte, et qui vivent principalement entre la Syrie, la Jordanie, le Liban, Israël et la Palestine."

Ce que me fait poser la question, est-ce que les Druzes sont Israëlites ?

Cette liste semble de le confirmer, c'est une distance qui monte en fonction que les items baissent, vis-à-vis un génôme ancien israëlite :

Je cite les items que j'ai marqués :

Chrétien palestinien, 0,02570751
Druze de Liban, 0,04376445
Druze d'Israël, 0,04399032
Musulman palestinien, 0,5395741


He makes the point in his tweets, genetic distances around point 02 or under mean a group is practically genetically indistinguishable. 05 implies distinguishability but belong to the same genetic regional grouping: so for example a sub racial grouping like Northwestern European or Eastern European.*

Notez, le génôme ancien est ...

... en Galilée, mais dans la vidéo, ce n'est pas noté de quelle époque exacte. Par contre, sur la wikipédie, il semble y avoir un seul endroit qui correspond à un échantillon humain ou à des échantillons humains :

Les vestiges de l'âge du bronze moyen se composent d'un bâtiment avec quatre salles consécutives révélées à ce jour, avec des entrées dans deux d'entre elles, montrant que les chambres faisaient partie d'un bâtiment qui continue vers le nord. Des traces d'une fin violente à cette occupation ont été identifiées. La poterie peut être datée du bronze moyen IIB et comprend des pots de stockage (certains avec des sépultures de bébé) et des pithoi. Dans le coin nord-est de la zone, le squelette d'un gros mâle a été retrouvé couché sur le ventre et partiellement couvert par un pithos.

Ce qui laisse la question, était-ce encore des Canaanéens, ou étaient-ce des Israëlites ?

Et les réponses vont diverger entre moi et certains d'autres.

a) par rapport à la chronologie de l'Exode ;
b) par rapport à la chronologie des datations carboniques.

  • "According to Biblical chronology, the Exodus took place in the 890th year before the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 421 BCE (generally accepted date: 587 BCE).1 This was 1310 BCE (1476 BCE)." (le Juif date l'Exode à 1310 av.J.C.)** + dates carboniques tels quels (pas totalement évident si on pense que 587 av.J.C. est une mauvaise datation pour 421) = le Bronze II B était déjà passé avant l'arrivé des Israëlites ;
  • Selon le martyrologe romain, du 25 déc, Jésus est né 1510 après l'Exode, et mes calibrations*** donnent que ça pourrait se dater vers 1610, ou encore un peu plus tard. Le Bronze II B débute avec ou peu avant l'arrivé des Israëlites.

Donc, les Druzes sont à mon avis descendants d'Israëlites, et c'est parfaitement concevable que parmi les Israëlites d'il y a 2000 ans, environ 1000 ans avant la fondation de la religion des Druzes, Notre Seigneur avait un génôme plutôt proche des leurs. 1500 ans d'histoire pourrait très bien expliquer la distance de virgule 04 et quelque entre son génôme et celui de certains ancêtres peu après l'Exode.

Un Juif pourrait arriver à une autre conclusion. Ou non, s'il considère les dates carboniques davantage déformés à l'époque de l'Exode que moi (même date carbonique pour une daté réelle plus récente).

Ceci importe pour l'Israëlité des Palestiniens, comme pour la génuinité du Sindone de Turin./HGL

PS, même mieux, il semble qu'il s'agit d'un autre génôme d'Abel Beth Maacah! Tellement tard qu'il n'y ait pas de doute qu'il s'agit d'un Israëlite très probable :

Source, cette vidéo, à 0 minutes et 42 secondes :

Ancestralbrew | 13 Jan. 2024

* Traduction : Il le souligne dans ses tweets, les distances génétiques autour du point virgule 02 ou en dessous signifient qu'un groupe est pratiquement génétiquement indiscernable. 05 implique une distinction mais appartient au même groupement régional génétique : par exemple un sous-groupe racial comme l'Europe du Nord-Ouest ou l'Europe de l'Est.

** When Was the Exodus? par Brad Aaronson (29 Juin 2006), sur un site "Orthodox Union"

*** Mes calibrations tels quels, depuis 2020 :

1588 av. J.-Chr.
97,068 pcm et donc daté comme 1838 av. J.-Chr.
1566 av. J.-Chr.
97,441 pcm et donc daté comme 1776 av. J.-Chr.
1543 av. J.-Chr.
97,813 pcm et donc daté comme 1723 av. J.-Chr.
1521 av. J.-Chr.
98,184 pcm et donc daté comme 1671 av. J.-Chr.
1498 av. J.-Chr.
98,555 pcm et donc daté comme 1618 av. J.-Chr.
1476 av. J.-Chr.
98,924 pcm et donc daté comme 1566 av. J.-Chr.

C'est possible d'imaginer une occillation dans la montée du carbone 14, qui donnerait que 1511, évidemment après 1521 et avant 1498, au lieu d'avoir une date carbonique d'entre 1671 et 1618, auraient une date carbonique identique à l'éruption de Santorini, Théra, si ça a plu au Tout-Puissant de se servir de cet événement naturel pour certaines des plaies d'Égypte. La date carbonique est donc 1609 av. J.C. pour l'éruption.

Monday, January 8, 2024

For a Pope to be a Pope, he must be the one that Secular Rulers know they should be dealing with, right?

Like the Christmas messages on Radio to the faithful, in Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, one year even in English. How could he have spread them on the Radio, if there hadn't been country after country willing to broadcast his words?

Mercoledì, 24 dicembre 1941(1)

Giovedì, 24 dicembre 1942(1)

Venerdì, 24 dicembre 1943

Domenica, 24 dicembre 1944

24 dicembre 1945

38:06 — 39:20

Time travel to medieval Europe - Q&A
Premodernist | 28 Dec. 2023

And one thing to keep in mind about that is, 1054 was not a unique situation. There were lots of schisms. There were lots of situations where the Church got split in temporary ways, for particular circumstances they'd split for a particular period of time. Like in the 12th century, it was really common for there to be two popes at the same time. We don't hear about this today. If you take a world history class today, if it talks about late medieval Catholicism at all, it might talk about the Great Schism of the West, where there were two popes in the late 1300s. But that wasn't a unique situation. All through the 12th century there were multiple times when there were two different popes, and also at other times too before and after that. Because the cardinals would pick one pope. The emperor (what we call the Holy Roman Emperor) didn't like that choice. He'd come down with his army and get another pope elected. So now you have two popes. And because he's there with his army, the previously elected pope would flee and go to somewhere else where he'd be safe from the imperial troops. And so now you have two popes in two different towns. That was super common in the Middle Ages.

So, how did they manage, when in some countries and cities no one was broadcasting them? Innocent II was not in a position to send radio messages for Christmas, even if there had been a radio. At least not all of the years. When the Emperor came as a penitent to him in Canossa, actually he had first gone as a refugee to Canossa to escape the Emperor.

So, why didn't the Emperor get to Canossa with an armed guard and arrest the Pope instead? Well presumably he didn't want trouble with Lotharingia. What's the connexion? Matilda of Tuscany had a maternal grandfather and a husband (divorced as when we speak of separated, not as when we speak of divorced) who were Dukes respectively of Upper and Lower Lorraine. She was the owner of the castle Canossa. She also was an ardent supporter of Pope Innocent II. And that's basically how Innocent II avoided being eaten and swallowed by the Emperor. A pretty far cry from Pius XII sitting even just beside Mussolini (who was respectful of the Lateran Treaty) and disposing of several countries' willingness to pass on his Christmas message on their radio stations.

In the Middle Ages, most of the time, there was no regular postal service built on international collaboration. Each Pope sent emissaries, rather than rely on an independent postal service. That's another way in which they could be Popes even if opposed by a world that basically preferred the Antipopes.

Today, you have the internet. As the late Pope Michael I said : "nuff said"/HGL

Tuesday, January 2, 2024

Ilitch Oulianov s'épèle en suédois Iljitj Uljanov.

Il était d'un quart suédois, l'information n'est donc pas otieuse. Dans le livre de Ken Follett, non seulement le régime de la Prusse, mais aussi celui de la Suède le permettent le transit, et l'aident matériellement. Ken Follett étant romancier, je ne sais pas combien ça repose sur sa recherche et combien sur son imaginaire.

Mais de toute manière, Ilitch Oulianov était d'un quart suédois.


I 73
U 85 150
L 76 220 14
J 74 290 18 570
A 65 350 23 +46
N 78 420 31 =
O 79 490 40 616
V 86 570 46

Selon la majorité des manuscrits, le nombre de la bête, qui selon les pères de l'Église était une gématrie ("isopséphismos" = "gématrie"), c'est 666. Juste une minorité des manuscrits ont 616. Par contre, un des Pères qui avaient un tel manuscrit, c'était St. Césaire d'Arles.

Selon lui, XICT représente XPICT sans la lettre P (rho), donc sans la lettre forte et âpre, donc quelqu'un qui veut juste le doux du Christianisme et pas les parties âpres.

Pour moi, ça représente un certain type d'Antichrists préliminaires. Hitler avait cette gématrie en minuscules :

H 72
I 73 32 140 05 430 456
T 84 32 220 09 +26 160
L 76 32 290 15 =
E 69 32 350 24 456 616
R 82 32 430 26

Pour moi, le mal que fit Hitler, Ilitch Oulianov le fit en plus grand. J'avais un doute sur l'eugénisme, certes un mal très grand, très proche des derniers temps [1 Timothée 4:3], mais dont Ilitch Oulianov semblait libre.

Non, si Lénine n'a pas réussi un programme de l'eugénisme, il avait commencé de le préparer. Ce sera plus tard Staline et Lysenko qui interrompent ceci. Lénine était donc en avance sur Wendell Holmes, sur Per Albin et bien entendu sur Hitler. Ce dernier avait la bonne grâce de se faire battre en 1945, ce qui a réussi (avec l'aide de Konrad Adenauer) de bannir l'eugénisme de l'Allemagne. Merci, peut-être surtout à George Patton. Mais encore d'avantage à Adenauer !

Haydock ne se prononce pas Haddock !

Mais le capitaine avait au moins le respect pour la Basilique de St. Pierre.

Voici Haydock :

J'ai obtenu cet image en clicquant sur le premier ici :
Internet Bible Catalog : Haydock First Folio Series (1811-1831)

George Leo Haydock (ENG)

George Leo Haydock (ESP)

Après ENGlish et ESPañol, va-t-on arriver à une version FRançaise de cet article ? Pourquoi l'article en DEutsch n'est pas encore là ?/HGL