Tuesday, April 27, 2021

Is there a "Planet Middle-Earth" Too?

If an entire "character arc" (not sure if you can call successive entries of a character into the plot that) in C. S. Lewis is due to a correct description of one of the four seasons ... one could of course try to find other Narnian characters that do that.

But one could also be reminded of Michael Ward's Planet Narnia. He argues that each of the seven chronicles has its main mood set by one specific classic astrological planet. It could be instructive to use publication order instead of normal reading order to show some of the connexions between successive books:

Book Planet
The Lion, the Witch and the WardrobeJupiter
Prince CaspianMars
The Voyage of the Dawn TreaderSun
The Silver ChairMoon
The Horse and His BoyMercury
The Magician's NephewVenus
The Last BattleSaturn

Before we go on, I'd note that when I had heard of Ward's book and site, I considered The Horse and His Boy as the Venus book and The Magician's Nephew as the Mercury book.

It so happens some parallels between The Silver Chair and Hamlet brought me to ask myself if this type of creative "inventio" was a common thing in Renaissance Drama or - as he refused to consider Elisabethan era as "Renaissance" - Elisabethan Drama. Perhaps it was. Two Gentlemen of Verona would be a Mercury comedy, since involving twins, The Merchant of Venice a Mars comedy, where iron is most prized and where Portia goes out of her female role to be a lawyer, Macbeth a Mars tragedy (where Burnam Forest walked to Dunsinane) ... Midsummer Night's Dream probably a Jove comedy (with innocent laughter at Bottom, by lords like Oberon and Theseus) ...

This brought me to a project I had entertained for a while The Hobbit along with books I to VI of the Lord of the Rings are together also seven books, like the Narniad. Note, Tolkien had stated that the "trilogy" was a convenience of publishing and that the only natural subdivision of the work was into six books.

Any one of them (but not The Hobbit) has fewer chapters than a Narnia novel, 12, 11, 11, 10, 10, 9, as I recall, but (like The Hobbit), the longest of the Narniad has 53,960 words, while The Hobbit has 95,356 words, and each of the three LotR volumes has a word count such that its half would be greater than 53,960 words. So, any of the seven books in Tolkien would be a more fleshed out version of its story.

This could allow for more weight to secondary planets. Like The Hobbit has main planet Sun, since as in Voyage of the Dawn Treader we have a dragon undone (Smaug killed vs dragoned and then undragoned Eustace), a hoard of gold (Smaug's Treasure vs Goldwater, and before that the treasure which Eustace found), people living by water (Laketown vs diverse islands), but we also find some traces of Moon imagery - as in The Silver Chair you have an underground voyage, and giants come both in Silver Chair and The Hobbit. Visibility and invisibility are obviously in a sense a reference to phases of the Moon and plays a role in The Hobbit, as Bilbo finds the Ring. Now, if The Hobbit can be considered as mainly Solar but accessorily Lunar, this will start my little list:

Book Planet Secondary Planet
The HobbitSunMoon
Book IMoonSun
Book IIVenusJupiter
Book IIIMarsMercury
Book IVMercurySaturn
Book VSaturnMars
Book VIJupiterVenus

In book I, the roles of Sun and Moon are reversed. The Ring is centre of the attention, as are the Ringwraiths - who come as nightly scares. There is sickness (therefore alteration, a lunar thing) in both the Silver Chair and book I, where Puddleglum gets his foot severly burned and Frodo Baggins gets stabbed by a Morgul dagger. If Hamlet is Shakespear's Lunar Tragedy, ghosts would be lunar, and we have the barrow-wight in book I. Salvations come twice in lunar form, like elves singing "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" in Sindarin or Grey-Elven, to make it even more clear (though there is a linguistic explanation for that), one of the words in the second line is "silivren" which sounds like "silver" and means "white-glittering" (which also describes the Moon) and when Glorfindel (replaced by Arwen in PJ's film) summons the waters to drown the steeds of the Black Riders. Like tides are mainly lunar.

However, there is also solar imagery - I think mainly of Tom Bombadil and perhaps also of the fireworks. Even if neither Coriakin nor Gandalf are meant as human people committing the sin of sorcery, they can be roughly speaking as literary figures considered as magicians, which would be solar, think of Aietes in Argonautica who is son of Helios. Gandalf is also most prominent in The Hobbit and in Book I.

In book II, you start with "many meetings" between hobbits and you get near the end the land of Lothlorien, with Gimli "falling in love with" Galadriel, and at the end you have steady friendship in Sam refusing to abandon Frodo. The jovian imagery is partly in Elrond, partly in Hollin - the land of hollies, which belong to Christmas, a fairly jovian and clearly jovial occasion.

In book III, as in Prince Caspian, "Burnam forest walks to Dunsinane". There is constant war with Orcs. We arrive to the riders of Rohan.

And for secondary planet, Mercury. The twin-like Pippin and Merry (there are twins in The Horse and His Boy) arrive as messangers telling a story of Saruman's treason (and you have Shasta telling that of Rabadash's in The Horse and His Boy), and we also have a contest of wizards, Saruman and Gandalf being also twin like.

In book IV, Frodo, Sam and Gollum are on a quest, and need to keep secrets (my Mercury as main planet may be weak), and as to secondary planet Saturn, they come both to Ithilian, closely modelled on Italy (the land of exile of mythological Saturn) and to Mordor, where Saturn as destructive principle would be at work, and there is poison and treason in Cirith Ungol.

In book V, while the battle of Pelennor kills off one Nazgul, there are eight to go and Theoden dies. Aragorn arrives by the Paths of the Dead (and this is therefore a place where Mercury would fit better as main than in previous) and Denethor commits actual treason in despair. At the end of the book, they expect to be defeated by Sauron, if they just survived Morannon, there would be another thing coming ... and obviously, battles open and end, so we have Mars too as secondary.

In book VI, "Jupiter brings" the happy end, the victory, the righting of wrongs elsewhere, like in the Shire ... and "Venus comes with" fertility. All Saturnine things are dispelled. And as King Planet, "Jove brings" coronation to Elessar, while Venus adds marriage with Arwen - as well as Sam Gamgee's with Rosie Cotton.

Hans Georg Lundahl
St. Peter Canisius

PS, next day, before checking reactions in the mail: 1) of course another thing unites The Voyage of the Dawn Treader and The Hobbit as solar, since both are voyages to the East, and similarily fireworks unite book I and The Silver Chair as lunar (fireworks being lights in the night); 2) I think Mercury would fit book V very well "too", since Pippin's message, since Theoden's arrival in time, since heralds meeting each other at the end, and perhaps above all since Aragorn goes the paths of the dead (Hermes psychopompos) and both he and Denethor use Palantirs, while book IV is a lunar book, the vaccillating moods of Gollum, the passage in the dark, the "Italian" landscape being called Ithilien, literally Moon-land in Sindarin. Not forgetting phases of the Moon are carefully noted. Solutions : a) I was simply assigning planet pairs wrong, as the pairs possible are not 7 but 7*6; b) we deal with planet triplets; c) Moon and Mercury are very pervasive with Tolkien and spill over into other books than their own. I would however probably stick with a or b./HGL

PPS, I think I'd go for planet triplets - Venus would be in book I too, since involving the marriage of Tom Bombadil and Goldberry./HGL

Tuesday, April 20, 2021

Charlotte of Savoy married the future Lewis XI of France when she was 9 - what about her ancestry?

New blog on the kid: Russia and US - Abortions · Φιλολoγικά / Philologica: Charlotte of Savoy married the future Lewis XI of France when she was 9 - what about her ancestry? · What is Going On Back in the Middle Ages?

On 11 March 1443, when Charlotte was just over a year old, she was betrothed to Frederick of Saxony (28 August 1439- 23 December 1451), eldest son of Frederick II, Elector of Saxony.[1] For reasons unknown, the betrothal was annulled. Less than eight years later on 14 February 1451, Charlotte married Louis, Dauphin of France (future Louis XI), eldest son of Charles VII of France and Marie of Anjou.[3] The bride was nine years old and the groom twenty-seven. The marriage, which had taken place without the consent of the French king,[3] was Louis' second; his first spouse, Margaret of Scotland, had died childless in 1445. Upon her marriage, Charlotte became Dauphine of France.

Note 3 refers to Richard Vaughan, Philip the Good, (The Boydell Press, 2010), 353.

This is normally speaking against the Roman Catholic legislation of minimum 14 for the groom and 12 for the bride. One can presume they were not assuming marital life for some years and that canonists regarded this as a betrothal.

This would have been exceptional, so what about her ancestry?

Anne Lusigan of Cyprus ... Sosa Stradonitz 3.

On 9 August 1431 was signed the marriage contract between Anne and Amadeus, Prince of Piamonte and titular Prince of Achaea, eldest surviving son and heir of Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy (who later became Antipope Felix V); however, the Prince died only twenty days later, on 29 August.

She was 12, going on 13.

Mary of Burgundy, Duchess of Savoy ... Sosa Stradonitz 5.

Their marriage was contracted in the year of her birth, on 11 November 1386 in Sluis, Zeeland; they married by proxy 30 October 1393 in Chalon-sur-Saône and in person at Arras May 1401, when Mary was ca. 15 years old.

In fact, years have been proposed from 1393 to 1403. French wiki gives her age at marriage as 7, but the date of intercourse starting as 18, however gives this qualification:

D'autres années ont pu être avancées pour la date du mariage. Ainsi Samuel Guichenon, dans son Histoire généalogique de la Royale Maison de Savoie (1660), donne dans un premier temps 13933 puis quelques pages plus loin le mois de mai 14014. L'historien Bernard Demotz dans son ouvrage sur Le comté de Savoie (2000) donne quant à lui 1403 comme année du mariage. Cette dernière date correspondant aux 10 années écoulées et son déplacement en Savoie avec sa majorité.

Her oldest child is born 1405, when she was 19.

Charlotte of Bourbon, Queen of Cyprus ... Sosa Stradonitz 7.

On 25 August 1411, at Saint Sophia's Cathedral in Nicosia, Cyprus, Charlotte married as his second wife, King Janus of Cyprus and Armenia and titular King of Jerusalem.

At 23.

Bonne of Berry ... Sosa Stradonitz 9.

Her first marriage was to Amadeus VII, Count of Savoy. Their marriage contract is dated 7 May 1372 and they married on 18 January 1377, but she wouldn't arrive in Savoy until 1381.

Depending on birth year, she would have been 11 or 14. Arrival in Savoy, 16 or 19.

Margaret III, Countess of Flanders ... Sosa Stradonitz 11.

In 1355, Margaret of Flanders married Philip of Rouvres, grandson and heir of Odo IV, Duke of Burgundy.

She would have been five. As he died when she was 11, she had no issue with him. In canonic view, this would have been only a betrothal. Her second marriage took place when she was 19.

Helvis of Brunswick-Grubenhagen ... Sosa Stradonitz 13.

On 1 May 1365, when she was 12 years old, she married James de Lusignan, the third son of King Hugh IV of Cyprus and Alix of Ibelin, who three years later became her stepmother. James was 19 years her senior. As they were cousins, a Papal dispensation was required for their marriage.

Note, not for her marrying at 12, not for marrying someone 19 years her senior. But for being cousins.

Catherine of Vendôme ... Sosa Stradonitz 15.

Fille du comte Jean VI de Vendôme et de Jeanne de Ponthieu, elle épouse en 1364 Jean de Bourbon, comte de La Marche

Ten, if as English wiki says she was born in 1350, again the early years of the marriage were not consummated. She has her first son at about 16 and this means by about 15 the consummation would have been done. French wiki states she was born "vers 1350".

Bonne of Bourbon ... Sosa Stradonitz 17.

She married Amadeus in September 1355 in Paris. Immediately after their wedding, her husband had to return to his army, still engaged in the Hundred Years' War.

She would have been 14.

Joan of Armagnac ... Sosa Stradonitz 19.

She became Duchess of Berry by her marriage to John, Duke of Berry in 1360.[1]

So, 16.

Bonne of Luxembourg ... Sosa Stradonitz 21.

Jutta was married to John, Duke of Normandy on 28 July 1332[4] at the Collegiate Church of Notre-Dame, Melun. She was 17 years old, and the future king was 13. Her name Jutta (or Guta), translatable into English as Good (in the feminine case), was changed by the time of her marriage to Bonne (French) or Bona (Latin).

Margaret of Brabant, Countess of Flanders ... Sosa Stradonitz 23.

In 1347 she married Louis II of Flanders, who was then sixteen years old and already count of Flanders.

24. I think this was the oldest bride in this list.

Alix of Ibelin ... Sosa Stradonitz 25.

On 17 September 1318, the Chronicle of Amadi recorded that Alix had married Hugh de Lusignan, son and heir of Guy de Lusignan, Constable of Cyprus.

She was 12 or 14. However, her oldest child was born 7 years later.

Helisia of Dampierre ... Sosa Stradonitz 27. No article in English wiki.

Joan of Châtillon ... Sosa Stradonitz 29. No article in English wiki.

Joan of Ponthieu, Dame of Epernon ... Sosa Stradonitz 31.

On an unknown date sometime before 1351, Jeanne married Jean VI de Vendôme, Count of Vendôme and of Castres, Seigneur de Lézingnan-en-Narbonnois, and de Brétencourt of the House of Montoire.

She was born before 1336 ... with minimal "before"s we get 1335 to 1350, fifteen years. And her first one comes in 1351.

What about the men?

Lewis, Duke of Savoy ... Sosa Stradonitz 2.

On 1 November 1433 (or 12 February 1434), at Chambéry, he married Princess Anne of Cyprus,[1] an heiress of the Kingdom of Cyprus and the defunct Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy ... Sosa Stradonitz 4.

Amédée de Savoie est marié à l'âge de 10 ans, à Chalon, le 30 octobre 1393, par sa grand-mère, Bonne de Bourbon, à Marie de Bourgogne, âgée de 7 ans.

His oldest child is from 8 years later, so add 7 to each, he was 17.

Janus of Cyprus ... Sosa Stradonitz 6.

Sometime after January 1400 he married Anglesia Visconti (died 1439), daughter of Bernabò Visconti, Lord of Milan, but the marriage was annulled and they divorced in 1408 or 1407/1409 without issue.

1375 - so he was 24 / 25.

In 1411, he married Charlotte de Bourbon (born 1388 – died of the plague on 15 January 1422 and buried in Nicosia),[2] daughter of John I, Count of La Marche and Catherine of Vendôme, at Nicosia; they had six children:

He was 36.

Amadeus VII, Count of Savoy ... Sosa Stradonitz 8.

Amédée, comte de Bresse, épouse en 1377, à Paris, le 18 janvier 1377, Bonne de Berry, fille de Jean de France, duc de Berry et duc d'Auvergne, et de Jeanne d'Armagnac, fille du comte Jean Ier.

He was 16, going on 17.

Philip the Bold ... Sosa Stradonitz 10.

Philip the Bold married the future Countess Margaret III of Flanders on 19 June 1369

He was 27 and a half, nearly.

James I of Cyprus ... Sosa Stradonitz 12.

James married his kinswoman Helvis (Heloise) of Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1353 – January 15/25, 1421) (daughter of Philip of Brunswick, Constable of Jerusalem and Helisia of Dampierre) in 1365.

He was 21.

John I, Count of La Marche ... Sosa Stradonitz 14.

On 28 September 1364, he married Catherine of Vendôme, countess of Vendôme (d. 1412) and daughter of John VI, Count of Vendôme.

He was 20.

Amadeus VI, Count of Savoy ... Sosa Stradonitz 16.

He was married in 1355 in Paris to Bonne of Bourbon,[23] the sister-in-law of Charles V of France.

He was 21.

John, Duke of Berry ... Sosa Stradonitz 18.

John of Berry had the following issue by his first wife, Joanna of Armagnac (1346–1387), whom he married in 1360

20 or perhaps given his late birth in 1340 more probably 19.

John II of France ... Sosa Stradonitz 20.

John reached the age of majority, 13 years and one day, on 27 April 1332, and received overlordship of the duchy of Normandy, as well as the counties of Anjou and Maine.[1] The wedding was celebrated on 28 July at the church of Notre-Dame in Melun in the presence of six thousand guests.

He was, as mentioned, a few months older than 13. It can be mentioned that his first son is born 5 and a half years later.

Lodewyk van Male ... Sosa Stradonitz 22.

Lodewyk trouwde in 1347 mè Margaretha van Broabant, twidde dochter van Jan III van Broabant en Marie van Évreux.

He would have been more likely 16 than 17, as he was born late in 1330.

Hugh IV of Cyprus ... Sosa Stradonitz 24.

His second marriage took place on 18 June 1318, to Alix of Ibelin (1304/1306 – after 6 August 1386 and buried at Saint Dominic's, Nicosia),[1] daughter of Guy of Ibelin by his wife and cousin Isabelle d'Ibelin.

As his birthyear is somewhat unclear, he was 24 to 27 years old.

Philip of Brunswick-Grubenhagen ... Sosa Stradonitz 26.

He married firstly Helisia de Dampierre and had a daughter:

Helvis of Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1353 ...

Let's say he was married previous year, 1352 minus 1332, makes him 20. The article on Helisia de Dampierre is missing, we don't know how old she was (from wiki, at least for now).

James I, Count of La Marche ... Sosa Stradonitz 28.

In 1335, he married Jeanne of Châtillon,[4] daughter of Hugh of Châtillon, Lord of Leuze.

He may have been 16 or perhaps only 15, going on 16.

... Sosa Stradonitz 30.

In 1342, he married Jeanne de Ponthieu,

But the article has no birthyear, so the Spanish one has:

Juan VI de Vendôme (circa 1321/1324-febrero en 1364), condé de Vendôme y Castres (1354-1364) de la Cámara de Montoire

He was in other words between 18 (or 17, going on 18) and 21.

Just in case someone on the French right would pretend wiki is biassed, one can throw in that King St. Louis IX arguably married when he was sth like 18 and a half and his bride something like just 12. Unlike some above, this respected the papal ban on child marriages, which I think was then fairly recent and perhaps provoked by the ill-fated marriage of a daughter of John Lackland to the Scottish king at age 11, and his taking up relations on the spot. She left him and lived a secluded life, escorted back to England by her brother Henry III. But the marriage at 12 to 14 (when St. Louis was 18 and a half to 20 and a half, before his majority at 21) of Marguérite de Provence was not ill-fated, nor illegal according to this papal legislation.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Sts. Sulpicius and Servilian,
Martyrs of Rome


There are two ways of writing children's books

If you ask experts (including simply experts on curricula, like teachers) what children a certain age are likely to need to learn, and you know you can speak so children that age can understand you and you write a book to suit that need, well, you will very likely write a book that is fun for that age, but not quite as fun in an older age when the lesson is already well learned.

If you write books to suit your taste, including the taste you had back at a certain age as perceived in retrospect, you are likely to write works of art, which continue to enchant well after your "age back then" is reached by the readers, just as it did for you.

I don't think many Swedes would still as adults, unless when reading to children, admit to loving Alfons Åberg and spending hours reading him. I think very many Swedes would still admit loving and spending hours on Ronya or Mio or Brothers Lionheart by Astrid Lindgren (apart from pro-death ending of the last book mentioned, this includes me).

I think if you put a riddle into a childrens book, that the child does not solve and the adult does solve at 52, when looking back, this means your books fall into the latter category.

Now, look first at this paragraph on Autumn (a season some of you may better know as Fall). The compare the comparisons I give.

After a Summer sometimes too hot, Autumn comes as a liberation. With red hue and black trunks, with umbrellas and scarves, but still with lots of gifts: you huddle around the fire for a hot tea, you enjoy the honey recently harvested from the bees, all the fruits make the meals richer. As you sit by the fire and hear the wind lull you to sleep, you drowse and wake up to torrential rain, reminding of some back in spring, but sadder, since Autumn leads you on to Winter, and nearly betrays you to him ... but yet saves you, though not himself : Winter will take away the ruddy freshness and leave only grey and cold and his house totally disshevelled.

Now, look at Tumnus. Look hard at a line by Queen Susan to him:

Oh, Tumnus!

Do you see another name here? Well, Autumnus pronounced by an Englishman. He is the Roman god or divinity of Autumn. There is another Roman divinity with a name ending in Tumnus : Vertumnus. So, if in a Spanish book two characters, father and son, are called Vergilio and Oberon Toño, that is a fair parallel to the old man on the wall and his son in the leanchair.

Getting back to the line by Queen Susan, in The Horse and His Boy, Tumnus did liberate her from the excessive heat of Calormene "Summer". "After a Summer sometimes too hot, Autumn comes as a liberation."

Now, back to The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. Mr. Tumnus has black hair and horns and cloven hooves and is hairy all over the legs, but his skin is red. "With red hue and black trunks," as I said. He has a scarf and an umbrella and lots of gifts. "[W]ith umbrellas and scarves, but still with lots of gifts," I said. And his hospitality to Lucy matches "you huddle around the fire for a hot tea, you enjoy the honey recently harvested from the bees, all the fruits make the meals richer."

He takes up a flute and plays until Lucy falls asleep: "As you sit by the fire and hear the wind lull you to sleep, you drowse," I just said.

Lucy wakes up as the faun cries so as to leave a real puddle on the floor and Mr. Tumnus admits being such a bad faun, he was leading Lucy on to the White Witch. He admits his father would never have done such a thing. And I just said: "and wake up to torrential rain, reminding of some back in spring, but sadder, since Autumn leads you on to Winter, and nearly betrays you to him." Obviously the other Mr. Tumnus, the father, Vertumnus, would not have done such a thing, he would have been leading you on to Summer instead.

Tumnus saves Lucy by walking her back to the lamp post, and Autumn's harvests save us from starvation in Winter.

Mr. Tumnus pays a great price, his house is sacked, it is found cold, and he is turned to stone in the home of the White Witch. And as I just said "but yet saves you, though not himself : Winter will take away the ruddy freshness and leave only grey and cold and his house totally disshevelled."

Tumnus will of course be un-stoned when Aslan breathes on him, but he will not be taking an active part after his martyrdom. Why? As Spring has come and then Summer, Autumn is alive in his principles but not active in his own right. Since all processes leading up to a rich Autumn are already active from Spring on and throughout Summer. And next time Tumnus appears, and actively so, is of course for The Horse and His Boy, which is inside the last chapter of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, as delivering Queen Susan from what could very well be considered as "excessive Summer heat".

Hans Georg Lundahl
Sts. Sulpicius and Servilian
Martyrs of Rome

Romae sanctorum Martyrum Sulpicii et Serviliani, qui, praedicatione et miraculis beatae Domitillae Virginis ad Christi fidem conversi, ambo, cum nollent idolis immolare, in persecutione Trajani, a Praefecto Urbis Aniano sunt capite caesi.

A badly needed shoutout to this video, which did the blunder of identifying Tumnus with Vertumnus, the "god of seasonal change" when in fact Vertumnus was the god specifically of spring:

Tumnus Isn't Who You Think | Narnia Lore | Into the Wardrobe
18th April 2021 | Into the Wardrobe

Monday, April 5, 2021

Alors, j'avoue avoir interprété de manière provocatrice

L'amateurisme chez les droitistes · Alors, j'avoue avoir interprété de manière provocatrice

La "démonstration foutraque" pourrait très bien ne pas être ce qui était cité de Pokorny, mais plutôt mon raisonnement autour.

Essayons de le clarifier. D'abord, le sanskrit n'a pas de mot "kwel". Ensuite, le mot sanskrit "cárati" ne signifie pas "tourner", mais bien "bouger", "se promener" et de la suite.

On présume, de certains quartiers, que le sanskrit, le latin, le grec auraient un ancêtre commun, une langue qui les ressemble également aux trois et donc est aussi dissemblable de chacune qu'elle ne le sont entre elles - comme entre le latin et les langues romanes.

Dans ce cas, cette langue aurait eu très probablement un verbe "kʷeleti" - d'où on peut faire les découpages kʷel- (racine), -e- voyelle thématique (extension de la racine), -ti, désinence active pour la troisième personne du singulier*. Les parties finales, -e-ti donneraient donc en sanskrit "-ati" et en latin "-it" dans la conjugaison consonantique. Par contre, kʷel serait en latin devenu d'abord kwel - et ensuite kwol, kol, épelé col : colit, cultura, cultus, collum. La transition entre kwel et kwol serait sporadique, genre comme "duenos" devenu "bonus".

En sanskrit, kʷ comme en "kʷel-" normalement devient k, tandis que le k normal devient c, mais devant e, kʷ aussi devient c. Ensuite, e, a et o tous deviennent a. Et ensuite, l devient le plus souvent r. Voilà comment un hypothétique "kʷeleti" devient "carati".

Et en latin, colit non plus ne signifie "tourner" mais bien "cultiver", "habiter", "soigner" ou "vénérer". Par contre "colus" comme "quenouille" et "collum" comme "cou" vont dans le sens de "tourner" et on peut imaginer comment une signification primaire de "tourner" par quelque tournure idiomatique pourrait devenir "cultiver" et de la suite et par quelque tournure idiomatique d'une autre langue devenir "se promener" et de la suite. Dans les deux activités on fait des tours ...

On peut y croire, on peut le considérer comme fumesterie, mais si on se reclame de Martin, Les mots latins, on se reclame de cette possible fumesterie, car Martin se base sur Meillet, dont l'œuvre est continué par Pokorny.

Ce qu'on aurait davantage de mal à considerer comme une fumesterie est le nombre de mots qui ont des étymologies dans les autres "branches" de l'indo-européen. Si je ne veut pas admettre la proto-langue, il me faut d'admettre qu'entre ces groupes de langues (germaniques, italiques avec latin, le grec avec ses dialectes, le vieil indien en védique et sanskrit) il y ait eu de situations de "contamination" par bilinguisme - comme au Balkan. C'est l'autre hypothèse. Or, pour cette racine ci, on aurait quasi un jackpot - kʷel se retrouverait en vieil indien et en avestique, en grec, en albanais, en latin, germanique, celtique au moins la branche irlandaise, slavon et baltique. Neuf groupes différents, quoi. Si toutes les racines étaient comme "kʷel" et comme les nombres "deux" à "dix", avec "cent", presque "un" aussi, là on aurait une bonne preuve pour l'origine commune et non seulement parfois voisine de ces groupes.

Or, dans ce cas, ce serait aussi facile de reconstituer la langue d'une de ces groupes à partir d'une autre, ce qui n'est pas le cas. "Caelum" donnerait "heil" en germanique? Non. Au moins il y a la différence entre "ciel" et "sain et sauf". "Himmel" en germanique ce serait en latin "cumulus" - le ciel, est-il un tas?

Ici-même, on a juste trois "branches" où "kʷol-" serait extendu avec un -s- pour donner un mot signifiant "cou" - latin, germanique, vieil irlandais. En baltique, le mot qui signifie "roue" en sanskrit, grec et germanique signifie "cou" - kaklas en lithuanien. Pour un autre mot, est-ce que le slavon "osa" est suffisamment spécifique pour être assuré de venir de "vopsva" = "guêpe"? Certes, "wopswa" donnerait "osa" selon les équivalences établies, mais pourrait-il y avoir coïncidence?

Hans Georg Lundahl
Lundi de Pâques

* Certains appellent la troisième personne du pluriel "sixième personne", en grammaire française c'est même assez courant.

Saturday, April 3, 2021

L'amateurisme chez les droitistes

L'amateurisme chez les droitistes · Alors, j'avoue avoir interprété de manière provocatrice

Le mot culture vient du latin. Quelqu'un avait prétendu que ça venait du mot en sanskrit "kwel" - tourner, roue. Ensuite un écrivain à Présent (Guy Denaere?) dit, non, le mot en sanskrit et le mot latin "colo" (d'où cultura) viennent de la racine indo-européenne. Et il n'a en rien contredit que la racine pour "roue" était "le mot sanskritique" "kwel". D'ailleurs, ce qu'il disait sur la signification exacte de "colo" n'est pas du tout inexacte, ça veut dire cultiver, habiter, soigner, vénérer, comme il disait.

Je vérifie chez Pokorny. Non pas que je le considère comme ayant fait un voyage dans le temps pour enrégistrer le parler pur jus proto-indo-européen, mais il me semblait que le mot pour roue était "kʷekʷlo" ou quelque chose comme ça. Et que les réconstructions doctes, certes non infaillibles, et qui pourraient se tromper justement sur la question s'il y avait une telle proto-langue, devraient être mieux abordés par Pokorny que par Denaere :


Menu à gauche, je clique Kʷ kʷ. Là, je vérifie kʷel, c'est kʷel-2, pas en soi en cause, ensuite kʷel-1, kʷelə- ...

En fait, le verbe veut dire "tourner". En sanskrit "cárati, calati" - "bouge". Et certains mots pour "roue" s'y trouvent aussi, comme vieux slavon "kolo", dont le pluriel veut dire chariot. Et, comme pour la même racine, kʷekʷlo-, kʷokʷlo- - ce dont je me souvenait, en sanskrit "cakrá" (avec "čaxra" en avestique), en grec ancien "kuklos", en germanique "wheel, hjul etc" sauf l'allemand "Rad" qui est autre chose (apparentée à "roue").

J'étais étonné que la même racine donnait kʷekʷlo-, kʷokʷlo- ... kʷe-kʷ(e)l-o- se laisse comprendre comme une réduplication, avec la voyelle devenue nulle dans la position d'origine, mais je n'ai pas l'habitude de voire des substantifs expliqués comme réduplications d'un verbe en étymologies indo-européennes. Reste que le texte de Denaere laissait imaginer que le sanskrit avait un mot "kwel" ce qui est inexact.

Dans d'autres contextes, ça peut être un peu plus grave.

Dans le dernier Rivarol, on mettait avortement, contraception, d'autres aberrations, en connexion avec l'individualisme, l'égoïsme, l'hédonisme la société de loisirs. On pourrait donc imaginer que la bonne Chrétienté du Moyen Âge était collectiviste, altruiste, ascétique et dépourvu de loisirs. Elle était certes collective, mais donnait davantage d'espace à l'individualisme que par exemple le paganisme japonais. Elle louait les comportements altruistes - jusqu'à un certain niveau. L'ascétisme y avait une place - à côté des jouissances. Les jours chômés étaient comparables à l'après les Grenelles*.

On ne va pas restaurer la Chrétienté en démonisant l'individualisme, l'égoïsme, l'hédonisme et les loisirs parce que tels. Il y a eu des malentendus là-dessus chez les Fascistes ou comptés comme fascistoïdes ... la raison pourquoi l'individualisme, l'égoïsme, l'hédonisme et les loisirs n'avaient pas des conséquences comme l'avortement et la contraception est, d'un côté, ces choses ci n'y réposent pas, mais réposent sur autre chose, sur une démonisation de la fertilité en dernière analyse, quoique c'est par conspirations qui devant le grand public font appel à l'individualisme etc.** D'un autre coté c'est que le Moyen Âge ne sacralisait pas le collectivisme, l'altruisme, l'ascétisme (hormis la mesure qu'elle était partie intégrante du culte chrétien) et ne démonisait pas les loisirs sauf très tard, mais on évitait l'avortement et la contraception en sous-ordonnant les deux, l'individualisme et le collectivisme, l'égoïsme et l'altruisme, l'hédonisme et l'ascétisme, les loisirs comme le travail, à autre chose, à savoir la vérité chrétienne.

Sparte et Athènes avaient les deux leur place, Sparte comme allié contre Antioche Épiphane, Athènes comme origine de Saint Denis et lieu de la prêche de Saint Paul.

Mais, il faut se rendre compte, vaut mieux respecter l'amateurisme que de faire taire des amateurs qui s'opposent à des experts qui abusent leur position ou s'abusent en l'ayant. Un amateur aussi a le droit de se poser des questions sur les prétentions catastrophiques de certains.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Samedi Saint

PS, il semble que Denaere ait fait confiance à une œuvre qui cite le comparatiste Antoine Meillet, tandis que je citais moi-même quelques fois Julius Pokorny, une génération plus tard. Pour ces citations, il parlait de "démonstration foutraque" - c'est dire comment les études du proto-indo-européen aient changé en une génération qui n'est pas la dernière. Comme on blaguait - "quelle langue changeait le plus vite dans les années 1870'?"/HGL

* Les paysans du XVIIe siècle ont du subir une pression de chômer moins que traditionnellement. Ils ont mal pris. La cause est à porté : la population des villes grandissait. Elle repose sur la prductivité des paysans dont le nombre relatif aux ville diminuait. On peut aussi noter que les 35 heures dans la perspective de couples où les deux travaillent prend davantage de temps du couple pour le patronat que les 48 voire 40 heures si juste l'homme travaille - 35 + 35 = 70 > 48 > 40. ** Il y a aussi un égoïsme de patrons qui ne veulent pas payer la fertilité des employés et ensuite taxent celle-ci "d'égoïsme".

Thursday, April 1, 2021

Hannibal a une piste

Mon idée sur le journal d'Anne Frank : il n'est pas un faux, car elle n'est pas morte dans les camps. Donc, elle a bien pu refaire le journal après l'invention de ces stylos à bille et liquide corrective./HGL