Thursday, May 12, 2022

Eliphaz is Back

Some people have claimed, Job was a "narcissist" and God put him on a cure against this disorder.

If his "narcissism" was not damnining him (and it seems it wasn't, see God's words to Satan in chapter one) and if it wasn't plaguing the life of his family and friends (the sons and daughters seem to have had a good time before dying and his friends seem free to speak their mind to him) it would seem this procedure involved a cure worse than the disease.

The idea that "narcissism" = "vanity" = "pride" = "sin" doesn't take into account that sins differ between venial and mortal. Venials don't damn.

So, was Job a sinner?

In chapter 4 we have a discourse from Eliphaz, and now we can see the comment from Haydock after it:

[12] Now there was a word spoken to me in private, and my ears by stealth as it were received the veins of its whisper. [13] In the horror of a vision by night, when deep sleep is wont to hold men, [14] Fear seized upon me, and trembling, and all my bones were affrighted: [15] And when a spirit passed before me, the hair of my flesh stood up.

[16] There stood one whose countenance I knew not, an image before my eyes, and I heard the voice as it were of a gentle wind: [17] Shall man be justified in comparison of God, or shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Ver. 12. Private. Heretics pretend such obscure visions, rather to get credit than to edify others. S. Greg. v. 18. W. --- Many suppose that Eliphaz was guilty of feigning: but the greatest part think that he had truly seen a vision, but did not draw the proper conclusion from it. C. --- Prot. "Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof." H.

Ver. 13. The horror. Heb. "thoughts," while I considered the cause of thy distress. C.

Ver. 15. Spirit: angel, or gentle breeze. C.

Ver. 16. And I. Prot. "there was silence, and I heard a voice." Marg. "a still voice." Sept. "But I heard a breeze and a voice." H.

Ver. 17. Maker. It is thought that these were the words of the angel. If God punish without cause, may not the sufferer esteem himself the better of the two? You must therefore be guilty. C. --- Job would never dispute; but God was infinitely more pure than man, who may nevertheless be free from grievous sins. W. --- The highest angel has nothing but what he has received from God, in comparison with whom he is still as a mere nothing. But this does not prove that Job was a criminal, or that he pretended to arrogate to himself any excellence, independent of the giver of all good gifts. He did not assert that he was impeccable: yet, with God's grace, he might be innocent. C.

So, the theory God was curing a narcissist and that that one was Job can be laid to rest. How about God was using Job to cure a toxic narcissist and that one was Eliphaz, instead?

And after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Themanite: My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends, because you have not spoken the thing that is right before me, as my servant Job hath.

No wrath kindled against Job. But Job did penance? Yes, even in dust and ashes. But if you ask me, for a venial sin in relation to God, which nevertheless had been toxic to himself. Doubting - if only in secret - that God would deliver him.

The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. ... I have spoken unwisely.

He confessed with his lips, I know my deliverer liveth. But his heart whispered, where is God now?

No, not a case of narcissism.

Hans Georg Lundahl
third day after St. Job

Friday, May 6, 2022

The Real Crime of Tyndale : Justification without Intending Subsequent Works

Takeaways : he wasn't finally burnt for translating the Bible, and leaving the harlot is not leaving Roman Catholicism. Quora question and exhchange below my answer.

Did the Catholic Church burn William Tyndale at the stake? What crime did he commit?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Catholic convert, reading many Catechisms
Answered Feb 9, 2021

  • He translated the Bible to English;
  • He translated “presbyteros” as “elder” instead of “priest” in the Bible;
  • something else.

His Bible, with faults in translation, like those noted and alas defended by Kathleen Neuen, was not the cause of his burning, but of his exile from England;

Once he was taken before the Spanish Inquisition in Netherlands, he was in fact tried and executed for something else, namely, how he interpreted Romans 3.

His Inquisitor Jacobus Latomus had a correspondence with him, and we know from his preserved answers that Romans 3 was the key issue.

EDIT : it is Latomus’ answers to Tyndale that are preserved.

Nate Van Mack
Catholic Church wanted power over the masses, Tyndale translating the Bible into English would give them all the info to see how far off the church had gone from the truth. They didn't want that so they premeditated his murder, him as well as countless others in wars etc Catholic organization is the most corrupt on the planet for centuries. They have no unity. Complete opposite of Jesus who taught to love others. That's why Rev 18:4,5 says;

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind

God will completely annihilate all false religion very soon that have brought reproach on his holy name JEHOVAH, YHWH TETRAGRAMMETON

Hans-Georg Lundahl
"Catholic Church wanted power over the masses,"

Christ's Church should want power over the masses. See Matthew 28 "teach YE all nations".

This was usually not opposed to but went hand in hand with encouraging if secondary at least extant translations to the vernacular languages.

Like in Belgium, back then [Spanish] Netherlands where Tyndale was burned, there was a Catholic Bible translation, like Delftse Bijbel of the Vulgate OT excluding the Psalms, and from John Scutkens Historiebijbel, they had also printed Gospels and Epistles.

As said, Tyndale fled from England due to translating into vernacular, which could have landed him in trouble with the English Inquisition (decided by the Parliament in 1401), but he was burned in a country where the Catholic Church did support or very recently had supported Bible translations, and where translating the Bible was not in itself a charge of heresy : in the then Spanish possession of the Netherlands.

"Tyndale translating the Bible into English"

Was an offense in England, but not in Belgium.

"would give them all the info to see how far off the church had gone from the truth."

Yeah, English peasants were generally so well educated overall, that just giving them a printed Bible was going to reveal things to them, even without comment! Not.

Also, the Bible contains proof that "the Church had gone from the Truth" : also NOT. On the contrary, according to Matthew 28, She cannot. See "all days".

As for getting out of a certain harlot, whatever the identity of the harlot is, it is NOT the Catholic Church as historically known, and leaving the harlot is NOT joining Protestantism, which in its Puritan and most Anticatholic form is simply one of the four leopard heads.

A Seven Headed Beast ...

Please note, the seven heads being seven kings means there are individual people in the appropriate part of the end times, but the kings having kingdoms, and religion and politics being intertwined (both on Christ's and on Antichrist's side), the identifications I gave would be fairly good. If I were to join you, I would apostasise and be joining a leopard beast, in one of its four heads. That I will not do.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
If you or yours were to come to see the truth, I think a safer place to convert to Catholicism would be with this guy:

The Pope Speaks - Vatican in Exile

than with these guys:

Members - Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops

It seems I published this on the wrong blog, should have been Assorted Retorts. Obviously, the subject matter as such is here too, but the format goes to the other one.

Thursday, May 5, 2022

Lincoln Family : Premodern Lifespans

Here is the Lincoln Family

Footnote 11 Grzyb, Frank L. (2013). Hidden History of Rhode Island and the Civil War. The History Press. p. 17. ISBN 978-1-62619-231-7.

I will impose two limitations on the material given by the wiki.

1) only premodern, that is for US, none born after the civil war
2) consistent ancestor bias, there are a different statistics if you include children who died too early to become parents (including a married couple dying early) and one cannot do that up to the president, so I am not doing it after either.

Samuel Lincoln
Martha Lyford

Mordecai Lincoln
Sarah Jones

Mordecai Lincoln
Hannah Salter

John Lincoln
Rebecca Flowers

Abraham Lincoln
Bathsheba Herring

Thomas Lincoln
Nancy Hanks

Abraham Lincoln
Mary Todd Lincoln

Robert Todd Lincoln
Mary Eunice Harlan

42 50 56 68 70 72 73 83
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
34 35 42 64 70 86 86 91

Men from 42 to 83, with median 69.
Women from 34 to 91, with median 67.

34 35 42 42 50 56 64 68 70 70 72 73 83 86 86 91
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Both sexes 34 to 91, with median 69. Lower quartile 46, higher quartile 78./HGL