tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311182263927963322024-03-18T15:09:20.302-07:00Φιλολoγικά/PhilologicaHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.comBlogger1037125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-80385709914251741582024-03-17T10:09:00.000-07:002024-03-17T10:16:29.144-07:00Latein und Romanisch<br />
<b>Antworten nach Sorte:</b> <a href="https://antw-n-sorte.blogspot.com/2024/03/mitterer-deutsch-croatisch-und-latein.html">Mitterer Deutsch / Croatisch UND Latein / Französisch</a> · <b>Φιλολoγικά/Philologica:</b> <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2024/03/latein-und-romanisch.html">Latein und Romanisch</a>
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Zunächst, ich habe diese Theorie nicht erfunden, sondern gelesen, in einem Buch aus der 30-er bis 50-er (denke ich, warscheinlich 40-er) Jahren, welches im Klassischen Institut der Universität Lund im Keller sich befand.
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Zur Illustration. Später Text, warscheinlich schon romanisch gesprochen, mit einer etwa 200 Jahre jüngere Aussprache:
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<a href="https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Historiarum_Francorum_libri_X/Liber_II#5._De_Aravatio_episcopo_et_Chunis.">Historiarum Francorum libri X
<br /><i>Liber II 5. De Aravatio episcopo et Chunis.</i>
<br />https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Historiarum_Francorum_libri_X/Liber_II#5._De_Aravatio_episcopo_et_Chunis.</a>
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Ich nehme an, 1) der Lautstand der Aussprache war zur Zeit des hl. Gregor nicht nur Proto-Romanisch, sondern wenigstens Gallo-Romanisch, und 200 Jahre später, in Tours, Langue d'oïl. 2) Im geschriebenem Latein kamen Compromissen vor, um einige lateinische Formen zu ermöglichen, aber war sonst mit der völkischen Aussprache identisch, dagegen war die Diktion und Syntax verschieden, wie auch bis vor kurzem zwischen Dhimotiki und Katharevousa, oder zwischen Ukrainisch und Kirchslavisch mit ukrainischer Aussprache.
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Und, 3) diese Identität der Aussprache wird geändert, absichtlich, vom hl. Alcuin von Tours. Das "local appeal" der Aussprache wird dabei dem "international appeal" geopfert. Die lokale Sprache wird <i>plötzlich</i> dem Latein gegenüber eine fremde Mundart, ein Patois, die sogenannte "lingua romana rustica" des Synods von 813. Die neue Aussprache, die Alcuin als Fremdsprache erlernt hatte, ist die die wir als Mittellatein kennen, wesentlich ein Latein Italiens in England um 600 umgepflanzt, und dann als Fremdsprache vereinfacht, d. h. der Schrift noch angenähert. Daher auch die Endung -um die wie deutsch "um" lautet, statt ein -u~ im portugisischen Sinne auszumachen.
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Ich gebe unter der Schrift zunächst die als schriftgemäß empfundene Aussprache, so wie ich den Sachverhalt verstehe, wie sie vor Alcuins Ankunft war, dann eine volkstümliche, wobei ich denke das zwischen den beiden, so wie auch heute zwischen Dhimotiki und Katharevousa, Zwischen-Stufen existierten. Diese Brücken der beiden Sprachebenen verschwinden dann wie auch die Identität der Aussprache, nach Alcuin. Enjoy (oder auch nicht, stehe aus, dann)!/HGL
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<i>Igitur rumor erat, Chunos in Galliis velle prorumpere.</i>
<br />[<i>i:ð@r</i> rüm@r ert, hüns e~ galy@s vel <i>proröm~pr@</i>]
<br />[rüm@r ert <i>or, els</i> hüns vulei@n röm~pr@ <i>a l@s</i> galy@s.]
<br /><br />
<i>Erat autem tunc temporis apud Tungrus oppidum</i>
<br />[ert <i>oð</i> ton~k tem~pr@s <i>av@ð</i> tön~gr@s <i>oppið</i>]
<br />[ert or don~k ten~s <i>a la citeð</i> tön~gr@s]
<br /><br />
<i>Aravatius eximiae sanctitatis episcopus,</i>
<br />[araveis@s, <i>eksiny@</i> sain~teð@s evesk@v@s]
<br />[araveis, evesk@ <i>grande</i> sain~teð]
<br /><br />
<i>qui vigiliis ac ieiuniis vacans,</i>
<br />[ki vely@s <i>a</i> djewn@s vakan~s]
<br />[ki vakan~t <i>e~</i> vely@s e djewn@s]
<br /><br />
<i>crebro lacrimarum imbre perfusus,</i>
<br />[<i>krevr@</i> <i>l@rmar</i> em~br@ perfüs@s]
<br />[perfüs@s pluy@ <i>espes</i> larm@s]
<br /><br />
<i>Domini misericordiam praecabatur,</i>
<br />[donn@ miserkord@ preyav@r]
<br />[preyav@ miserkord@ don]
<br /><br />
<i>ne umquam gentem hanc incredulam sibique semper indignam in Galliis venire permitterit.</i>
<br />[<i>nei ön~k@</i> djen~t@ <i>an~k</i> <i>en~krëül@</i> <i>s@vik@</i> e~diny@ e~ galy@s venir permetr@]
<br />[<i>ke n@</i> ön~k@ <i>tçest@</i> djen~t@ e~fiel e e~diny@ s@ permet@ venir a galy@s]
<br /><br />
<i>Sed sentiens per spiritum,</i>
<br />[<i>seð</i> sensie~s p@r esperið]
<br />[meis senten~t p@r esperið]
<br /><br />
<i>pro dilictis populi sibi hoc non fuisse concessum,</i>
<br />[pru d@lit@s pövl@ s@ ok no <i>füs</i> kontçes]
<br />[<i>k@</i> pru d@lit@s pövl@ <i>tçest</i> no <i>füð</i> kontçes]
<br /><br />
<i>consilium habuit expetendi urbem Romanam,</i>
<br />[kon~sely@ aot <i>espeðen@</i> <i>ürp</i> ruman@]
<br />[aot kon~sely@ espeðir <i>la citeð</i> ruman@]
<br /><br />
<i>scilicet ut, adiunctam sibi apostolicae virtutis patrocinia,</i>
<br />[<i>stsilist üt</i> adjon~t@ s@vi <i>apostri@</i> vertüd@s <i>persiny@</i>]
<br />[<i>a saveir k@</i> s@ adjon~t@ la proteksy@ vertüð apostr@]
<br /><br />
<i>quae humiliter ad Domini misericordiam flagitabat, mereretur facilius obtinere.</i>
<br />[ke: <i>öm~bl@t@r</i> a donn@ miserkord@ fleyèv@, <i>meriðr@ fatsily@s ot@ner</i>]
<br />[ke öm~bl@men~t fleyèv@ miserkord@ don, meris@ plüs fatsilmen~t la ot@nir]
<br /><br />
<i>Accedens ergo ad beati apostoli tumolum,</i>
<br />[aksiðes <i>erk</i> a beèð apostr@ töm~bl@]
<br />[don~k @ksiðen~t a beèð töm~b@ apostr@]
<br /><br />
<i>depraecabatur auxilium bonitatis eius,</i>
<br />[dipreyav@ð@r <i>oksely@</i> bon~tèð@s <i>eys</i>]
<br />[dipreyèv@ð <i>ayuð@</i> <i>se@</i> bon~tèð]
<br /><br />
<i>in multa abstinentia, maximae inaedia se consumens,</i>
<br />[e~ mult@ ostinents@, <i>maksim</i> <i>ineðy@</i> se ko~sumes]
<br />[e~ mult@ ostinents@, se ko~sumen~t <i>grand@ fèm</i>]
<br /><br />
<i>ita ut bidui triduique sine ullo cibo putuque maneret,</i>
<br />[<i>ið@ üð biðw@ triðwik@</i> se~ <i>ul@ tsiw@</i> puðuk@ m@ner@]
<br />[<i>manyèr@ a</i> m@ner se~ <i>alkü~</i> nütremen~t e puð dows e treys <i>djurn@s</i>]
<br /><br />
<i>nec esset intervallum aliquod, in quo ab oratione cessaret.</i>
<br />[<i>ney ess</i> e~terval alk@, e~ k@ av oratsyo~ <i>tsessar</i>]
<br />[e no~ seye alk@ e~terval, e~ k@ tsessast orar]
<br /><br />
<i>Cumque ibidem per multorum dierum spatia in tali adflictione moraretur,</i>
<br />[kön~k@ <i>evið</i> per <i>multor djèr</i> spatsy@ e~ tal afliksyo~ <i>mur@reð@r</i>]
<br />[kom la per spatsy@ mults djurn@s mureð e~ tal afliksyo~]
<br /><br />
<i>fertur hoc a beato apostolo accepisse responsum:</i>
<br />[fert@r <i>ok</i> a beèð apostr@ <i>aktsevis</i> respon~s@]
<br />[fert@r ke prist <i>tsest@</i> respon~s@ per beèð apostr@]
<br /><br />
<i>'Quid me, vir sanctissime, inquietas?</i>
<br />[k@ mei, ber <i>sein~tiss@m</i>, en~kyèt@s]
<br />[ber mult sein~t, k@ mei en~kyèt@s]
<br /><br />
<i>Ecce! enim apud Domini deliberationem prursus sanccitum est,</i>
<br />[ets! <i>en av@ð</i> Domn@ delivratsyo~ prurs@s sen~tsið est]
<br />[ets! Est detsideð per delivratsyo~ Domn]
<br /><br />
<i>Chunos in Gallias advenire easque maxima tempestate debere depopulari.</i>
<br />[hü:ns e~ galy@s avenir yask@ masim@ ten~steð deveir depövlèr]
<br />[k@ avyeny@n <i>li</i> hü:n e~ galy@s et k@ tsel@ deveir estr@ depövlèð@ e~ gran~d@ tem~pest@]
<br /><br />
<i>Nunc igitur sume consilium,</i>
<br />[<i>nön~k</i> <i>i:ð@r</i> <i>süm</i> konsely@]
<br />[tön~k pren konsely@]
<br /><br />
<i>accelera velociter,</i>
<br />[akselèr@ <i>b@lotstr@</i>]
<br />[akselèr@ <i>rapið@</i>]
<br /><br />
<i>ordena domum tuam,</i>
<br />[<i>urdèn@</i> <i>dom</i> tü@]
<br />[<i>urdon@</i> tü@ <i>meisyo~</i>]
<br /><br />
<i>sepulturam conpone,</i>
<br />[seveltür@ kom~po~]
<br />[kom~poz@ tü@ sevültür@]
<br /><br />
<i>require lentiamina munda!</i>
<br />[r@kyèr <i>len~syamn@</i> <i>mön~d@</i>]
<br />[r@kyèr len~sy@s <i>propr@s</i>]
<br /><br />
<i>Ecce! enim migraberis a corpore,</i>
<br />[ets! en <i>migrèvr@s a</i> korpr@]
<br />[ets! tü <i>migrèr èv@s de</i> korps]
<br /><br />
<i>nec videbunt oculi tui mala,</i>
<br />[ney veðeyv@n oly@ tü@ mal@]
<br />[e non veðer èv@n tü@ oly@ lu mal]
<br /><br />
<i>quae facturi sunt Chuni in Galliis,</i>
<br />[ke <i>feytür son</i> hü:n e~ galy@s]
<br />[k@ feyr@ èv@n li hü:n e~ galy@s]
<br /><br />
<i>sicut locutus est dominus Deus noster'.</i>
<br />[<i>si: luküts</i> est <i>domn@s</i> djews nostr@]
<br />[<i>en~si:</i> k@ <i>don~s</i> nostr@ djews dist]
<br /><br />
<i>Hoc a sancto apostolo pontifex responso suscepto,</i>
<br />[<i>ok</i> a sein~t apostr@ <i>pon~tifis</i> repon~s@ <i>süstseft</i>]
<br />[<i>el pontif</i> avyen~t rets@vüð <i>tsest@</i> repon~s@ del sein~t apostr@]
<br /><br />
<i>iter accelerat Galliasque velociter repetit,</i>
<br />[eð@r akselèr@ galyask@ <i>b@lotstr@</i> repest]
<br />[akselèr@ vei@ e <i>rapið@</i> retchertch@ galy@s]
<br /><br />
<i>veniensque ad urbem Tungrorum,</i>
<br />[venye~sk@ að <i>ürp</i> <i>tön~gror</i>]
<br />[e venien~t a tsiteð tön~gr@s]
<br /><br />
<i>quae erant necessaria sepulturae secum citius levat,</i>
<br />[ke ert netsessèr@ seveltür@ <i>sey tsitsy@s</i> lèv@]
<br />[k@ ert netsessèr@ a seveltür@ lèv@ ko~ sey rapið@]
<br /><br />
<i>valedicensque clericis ac reliquis civibus urbis,</i>
<br />[valditse~sk@ klerts@s <i>a relk@s tsiv@ ürv@s</i>]
<br />[dist val als klerks eð als altr@s tsiteðin~d]
<br /><br />
<i>denuntiat cum fletu et lamentatione,</i>
<br />[denön~ts@ ko <i>fleð</i> e l@mentatsyo~]
<br />[enön~ts@ kom~ plours e l@mentatsyo~]
<br /><br />
<i>quia non visuri essent ultra faciem illius.</i>
<br />[key@ no <i>vezür ess@n</i> öltr@ fatsy@ ley@s]
<br />[k@ no veðer èv@n öltr@ sü@ fats]
<br /><br />
<i>At ille cum heiulato magno et lacrimis prosequentes supplecabant humili praece, dicentes:</i>
<br />[að il ko eylèð many e larm@s prusewen~t@s supleyèv@n öm~bl@ prey, ditsents]
<br />[meis il ko many l@mentatsyo~ a larm@s supleyèv@n öm~bl@ preyèr@, ditsents]
<br /><br />
<i>'Ne derelinquas nos, pater sanctae, ne obliviscaris nostri, pastor bonae!'</i>
<br />[nei <i>derelink@s</i> nu:s, pèð@r sein~t, ne <i>uvliskèr@s nostr@,</i> pastr@ bo~]
<br />[no <i>leish@</i> nu:s, pèð@r sein~t, no uvli@ nu:s, pastr@ bo~]
<br /><br />
<i>Sed cum eum fletibus revocare non possent,</i>
<br />[<i>seð</i> <i>ko~</i> <i>yo fleð@v@s</i> revokar no~ poss@n]
<br />[<i>meis kan~t lu</i> no poss@n revokar ko~ plours]
<br /><br />
<i>accepta benedictione cum osculis, redierunt.</i>
<br />[aktset@ ben~ditsyo~ <i>ko~ oskl@s</i>, reyèr@n]
<br />[aktsetèr@n la ben~ditsyo~ ko~ beis@s e reyèr@n]
<br /><br />
<i>Hic vero ad Treiectinsem urbem accedens,</i>
<br />[<i>i: ver</i> a treyeðe~s <i>ürp</i> aktseðe~s]
<br />[<i>meis</i> il aktseð a la <i>tsiteð</i> trey@]
<br /><br />
<i>modica pulsatus febre,</i>
<br />[<i>moð@y@</i> pusseð@s fyèvr@]
<br />[pusseð@ fyèvr@ <i>p@tit@</i>]
<br /><br />
<i>recessit a corpore,</i>
<br />[retsest a korpr@]
<br />[retsest de korps]
<br /><br />
<i>ablutusque a fidelibus,</i>
<br />[avluðusk@ a fiðyèl@v@s]
<br />[laveð@s per fiðyèl@s]
<br /><br />
<i>iuxta ipsum agerem publicum est sepultus.</i>
<br />[yust@ <i>iss</i> eir@ püvlik@ est sevülð@s]
<br />[yust@ meðesm@ tchamp püvlik@ est sev@lið@s]
<br /><br />
<i>Cuius beatum corpus qualiter post multorum temporum spatia sit translatum, in libro Miraculorum scripsimus.</i>
<br />[kuy@s beyeð korps kèl@ð@r pos multor tempr@ spatsy@ seð traslèð, e~ livr@ mireilor eskrism@s]
<br />[de kel el beyeð korps kom@ pos mults ten~s spatsy@ sei@ traslèð, eskrism@s e~ lu livr@ mireil@s]Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-27487546273664934792024-02-24T08:39:00.000-08:002024-02-24T08:39:40.121-08:00The Jewish Tolkien and His Fantasy Country<br />
OK, mostly he didn't write fantasy, he mostly did thrillers, things like Stephen King.
<br /><br />
I've said Goldman. William Goldman.
<br /><br />
But once, he ventured into the realm of Faërie. When he did, he was clearly as brilliant as Tolkien. <i>The Princess Bride</i>. Originally written for his two daughters and he wrote the screenplay himself. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that the novel came out September 1st* 1973, in Chicago, while it may already have been September 2nd in England, the day when J. R. R. Tolkien died.
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I think, the connexion doesn't quite cease here. Fourteen years later, <i>The Princess Bride</i> became a film. Then the film smoldered under the ashes for another ten years, and became a huge hit through video, ten years after the release in theatres. That year, 1997, a certain Peter Jackson acquired the rights for doing <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>, and his <i>The Fellowship of the Ring</i> was released four years (a lustrum) after that. That is, 28 years after Tolkien died and <i>The Princess Bride</i> was published. Anyone noticed a similarity of appearance between Inigo Montoya and Aragorn? In the films, of course.
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There are parallels too in multiple attempts at making the film, the difference being, for <i>The Princess Bride</i>, the masterpiece was not preceded by any ... Ralph Bakshi, for instance, not to mention even worse ones.
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And there is the technique, in both there is world building. They seemingly, according to critics**, both convey that the world went on before the scenes opened and goes on after they have closed. In both there is map drawing.
<br /><br />
But in some other fashions, The Princess Bride would be closer to a novel by Lloyd Alexander. We deal with Ruritanian fantasy, not with actual supernatural entities. Now, most Ruritanians are set in our world. Ruritania. Syldavia (and Borduria). Bretzelburg. Grand Kudpein. Vulgaria. But while Lloyd Alexander has a whole series of Ruritanias visited by Vesper Holly, he also has the Ruritanias in the Westmark trilogy, and the setting of The Marvelous Misadventures of Sebastian — Ruritanias without connexion to our geography. That is also the case with ... well, not quite ... Guilder and Florin.
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It so happens, before the Netherlands switched to the Euro money, their currency was known as Guilder ... but the coins were marked with an FL, which stood for Florin. Two countries, around a marine strait, are on the map*** marked as Guilder and Florin. Shall we think Netherlands, Curaçao and Sint Maartens or Surinam? Perhaps most of all, what kind of abuse is adressed. Syldavia, Bretzelburg and Grand Kudpein (all written by French speakers) have a huge part for police brutality and dictatorship. Like Westmark and the unnamed country where Sebastian roamed. Lloyd Alexander had a French wife after all. But the purely English or American ones, by Anthony Hope, Ian Fleming, and, obviously, William Goldman, feature abuse involving the family. Anthony Hope allows a double of the King of Ruritania to stand in while he is imprisoned, to avoid usurpation. This double, Rudolf Rassendyll, turns out to be a much gentler husband than Rudolf V of Ruritania. So, in a way, Anthony Hope was making a point against toxic masculinity and abusive husbands.
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Vulgaria has the child catchers. I think Ian Fleming was making a point against abortion and child protective services, especially as they targetted certain traveller populations.
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Florin ... let's be clear that while Count Tyrone Rugen tortures people, it becomes easier for Prince Humperdinck° to basically force Buttercup into a marriage. Sounds a bit like psychiatry to me. Meanwhile, one hero, though not the protagonist, roughly equivalent to Athos in The Three Musketeers, has a fairly Catholic name. Inigo, son of Dominick .... a reference to the founders of Society of Jesus and Order of Preachers?
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<blockquote><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montoya">Montoya</a> is a Basque surname. It originally comes from a hamlet near Berantevilla in Álava, in the Basque region of northern Spain. During the Reconquista, it extended southwards throughout Castille and Andalusia. The name roughly translates to mean hills and valleys. It has become more frequent among Gitanos than among the general Spanish population.</blockquote>
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One father and son or uncle and nephew couple are Ramón and Carlos Montoya, Flamenco artists, not totally out of the way considering there are real life Humperdinck's connected to music too: Engelbert Humperdinck the composer, Engelbert Humperdinck the singer. We also have:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Gabriel Montoya (20 October 1868, in Alès – 7 October 1914, in Castres) was a French singer, chansonnier and lyricist.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Joseph Montoya is less likely, a politician ... did you know a founder of an order also existed of the name Montoya?
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Laura Montoya, in full María Laura de Jesús Montoya Upegui, (26 May 1874 – 21 October 1949), religious name Laura of Saint Catherine of Siena, was a Colombian Roman Catholic religious sister and the founder of the Congregation of the Missionary Sisters of the Immaculate Virgin Mary and Saint Catherine of Siena (1914). She was well known for her work with Indigenous peoples and for acting as a strong role model for South American girls.</blockquote>
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And, whether Flamenco artists, or gipsies or Catholics, psychiatry in Protestant countries hasn't been too gentle on them. Count Tyrone Rugen ... is he a standin for a shrink, like Baron and Baroness Bomburst for abortion and child protective services? Or was William Goldman prophetic without knowing it? There has been a murder victim Eliud Montoya, and a bandit, Diego León Montoya Sánchez, since the publication of the book. I guess I'd have to read the book first, but one thing is certain : the oppressed population of Florin is not representative of the actual Middle Ages.
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Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />Vigil of St. Mathias
<br />24.II.2024
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* <a href="https://archive.bookstr.com/article/on-this-day-the-princess-bride-publication-date/"><u>On This Day:</u> The Princess Bride Publication Date
<br /><i>Veronique Manfredini – <u>September 1st,</u> 2021</i>
<br />https://archive.bookstr.com/article/on-this-day-the-princess-bride-publication-date/</a>
<br /><br />
** For The Lord of the Rings, I'm one of those critics. As for The Princess Bride, I have neither seen the film, nor read the novel. But I have seen extracts, by youtube suggesting after I went from the theme in Jack Sparrow to one by Mark Knopfler in The Princess Bride.
<br /><br />
*** Yes, like lots of fantasy, The Princess Bride has a map.
<br /><br />
° The name is a Westphalian version of Huniberting ... descendant of Hunibert. Which means "bright warrior" or "bright Hun" ...Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-69904316020161256272024-02-19T15:04:00.000-08:002024-02-19T15:04:19.815-08:00I Haven't Read James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake, But I Can Tell You What It Is About<br />
<b>So can any Irishman. Which I don't have the honour to be one.</b>
<br /><br />
<i>[Now, the format of this post is like some of those on <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/">Assorted Retorts.</a> 1) I link to a video. 2) Which I had watched. And commented on. 3) And below the video I share my comments. Each one usually begins with a time stamp in bold]</i>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUh7iZ5NrHw">The 5 Most Difficult Books Ever! (Fiction)
<br /><i>Drawn to Books | 1 Dec. 2023</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUh7iZ5NrHw</a>
<br /><br />
<b>0:21</b> Are two or just one of them by James Joyce?
<br /><br />
<b>2:18</b> Here is at least <i>one</i> James Joyce. Ulysses?
<br /><br />
[nope, Faulkner]
<br /><br />
<b>6:09</b> Ah, two of them were by Joyce.
<br /><br />
AND another guy wrote Stream of Consciousness.
<br /><br />
<b>6:48</b> was Joyce a moderately structural conlanger? Does his language have a consistent grammar?
<br /><br />
<b>8:23</b> I have attempted a very different Finnegan's Wake. It's probably about the exact same guy.
<br /><br />
Wake = when the corpse is laid out, open coffin, the night before the funeral.
<br /><br />
It's kind of a fun occasion in Irish traditions, so the refrain goes "lot's of fun at Finnegan's wake" ... but in the exact final stanzas we hear :
<br /><br />
1) a bottle of whiskey gets smashed
<br />2) it spills onto the mouth of "dead" Finnegan
<br />3) who is thereby provoked to actually wake up, because he wasn't so dead after all.
<br /><br />
That in itself is a joke on the exact meaning of the Irish word for Whiskey.
<br /><br />
<blockquote><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky#Etymology">Distilled alcohol was known in Latin as aqua vitae</a> ("water of life"). This was translated into Old Irish as uisce beatha, which became uisce beatha (Irish pronunciation: [ˈɪʃcə ˈbʲahə]) in Irish and uisge beatha [ˈɯʃkʲə ˈbɛhə] in Scottish Gaelic.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
While the dead are awaiting the resurrection of the second coming, the living may speculate on what means Jesus will use to wake them up. Trumpets? Fair enough. But I guess Finnegan is a parody figure of the guy of whom they say "a trumpet couldn't wake him up" ... "well, perhaps some water of life could?" ... "oh yeah, it would totally work on him!"
<br /><br />
Finnegan's Wake (the song) spells out this joke in an interrupted attempted burial, not very far from the humour of <a href="https://www.sagen.at/texte/sagen/oesterreich/wien/1_bezirk/pestgrube.html">Der liebe Augustin.</a>
<br /><br />
After what you've just told me, Joyce was trying to do the stream of counsciousness of a man who was unconscious, to wit, Finnegan, the one of the song.
<br /><br />
Finnegan's wake the song:
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S5UTbUSiLM">Finnegans Wake - The Irish Rovers
<br /><i>CArghlhoavp | 7 marzo 2011</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S5UTbUSiLM</a>
<br /><br />
<b>8:23 bis</b>
<br /><br />
I think you forgot some <i>really</i> unreadable books.
<br /><br />
Moebius. As they are graphic novels, they sell very well on the pictorial beauty (which is like a mix of Wizards / Coonskin and Walt Disney / Don Bluth).
<br /><br />
But the story is not very clear even for being told in pictures, it's like Alice in Wonderland can't be real dreams, because it's not as confusing as Moebius.
<br /><br />
On the pictorial qualities of Moebius, one may add Blueberry too.
<br /><br />
Wait ... that's because Blueberry is also Moebius. I was thinking mainly of his Arzak works ... Blueberry is his Western (also not the most readable Westerns, plotwise).Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-31668577335781938542024-02-13T09:01:00.000-08:002024-03-18T15:08:47.991-07:00Indo-European Branches for I and II p. Plural, Pronouns<br />
<b>Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere:</b> <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2024/02/proto-ie-or-sprachbund-dialogue-with.html">Proto-IE or Sprachbund? Dialogue with Josef G. Mitterer</a> · <b>Φιλολoγικά/Philologica:</b> <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2024/02/indo-european-branches-for-i-and-ii-p.html">Indo-European Branches for I and II p. Plural, Pronouns</a> · <i>back to</i> <b>Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere:</b> <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2024/02/an-anti-christian-bumped-in-on-my.html">An Anti-Christian Bumped in On My Dialogue with Mitterer, Starting with a Red Flag</a> · <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2024/03/continuing-with-mitterer.html">Continuing with Mitterer</a> · <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2024/03/more-mitterer.html">More Mitterer</a>
<br /><br />
I suggested to Josef G. Mitterer that a hypothetic Sprachbund involving Swedish, English and Italian would:
<br /><br />
<ul><li> eliminate all forms in V- (I Eng/Sw, II Ital)
<li> eliminate all forms in N- (I Ital, II Sw)
<li> repurpose the remaining forms for I plural, all of them object forms, so that the Italian object form became subject form.</ul>
<br /><br />
It is a conundrum in Indo-European linguistics why for I p. plural and II p. plural we find so diverse forms, and especially why Germanic languages seem to have W- / V- forms for I p. plural, while Romance and Slavic have them for II p. plural. It is obviously less of a conundrum why Swedish on top of that has an N form for II p. plural, since it's derived from the normal Germanic Y- / J- form. I = ye = ihr. Viljen I > vilje Ni > vilja (pl) / vill (sg polite) Ni.
<br /><br />
Josef G. Mitterer observed that no Sprachbund is known to have been harmonising pronouns the way I suggested in my hypothetic example. So, let's look at the real case of the "branches" of Indo-European. I am now going to group them from South-East to North-West, starting with Romance / Slavic. Then Albanian and Greek. Then Lithuanian. Then Germanic apart from Swedish, then Swedish. For Greek, I am going with a very old form. Homeric or Doric, from memory. The endings -es can also be -eis.
<br /><br />
Obviously, we can leave Irish out of it. <i>Sinn, sibh, siad</i> seems to be a series which is very independent of the rest. Perhaps it has a connection with Romance / Slavic after the initial si-, but the initial si- sets the system so much apart from the rest, that confusion with the other pronouns is not possible. Welsh seems partly connected to Romance, <i>ni chi nhw.</i>
<br /><br />
<table><tr><td> <th>I pl subj <th>I pl obj <th>II pl subj <th>II pl obj</tr>
<tr><th>Lat <td>nos <td>nos <td>vos <td>vos </tr>
<tr><th>Pol <td>my <td>nas <td>wy <td>was </tr>
<tr><th>Greek <td>ammes <td>ammes <td>ummes <td>ummes</tr>
<tr> <th>Alb <td>ne <td>na <td>ju <td>ju </tr>
<tr><th>Lith <td>mes <td>mus <td>jūs <td>jus </tr>
<tr><th>Engl <td>we <td>us <td>ye <td>you </tr>
<tr><th>Swed <td>vi <td>oss <td>ni <td>er </tr></table>
<br /><br />
So, Germanic, the only language group that has W- / V- in I p. pl. is originally separated from Latin by sth like Welsh or Greek or Albanian, and from Slavic by sth like Lithuanian.
<br /><br />
Every early neighbourhood of more than one language group counted as "branch" of Indo-European avoids direct conflict. I take it as given the Germanic peoples were 2000 years ago separated from Italic peoples by Celts, Ligurians, Rhaetians and Etruscans. Even much later, Germanic peoples are still prior to AD 1000 often separated from Slavs by Baltic or Finnic peoples.
<br /><br />
Indo-Europeanists who believe in the PIE thesis obviously have their (sometimes rather roundabout) theories of how "we" and "uns" and "nos" come from the same PIE etymon. And how vos and you did so. But it is easier to assume that we deal with only partially harmonised Sprachbünder, each case of two neighbouring groups avoiding to have "pronouns in conflict" like we find between Swedish and French.
<br /><br />
If we take a look at the possessives of Swedish "vi" and Latin "vos" one could imagine a risk of conflict in neighbouring areas between "vester" and "vår" but ... English and High German, from very early stages, avoid the conflict by dropping the V- before an initial U-.
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Nanterre
<br />Pancake Tuesday
<br />13.II.2024Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-29898018042946968812024-02-11T03:47:00.000-08:002024-02-11T04:22:52.151-08:00Was Luther the First to Use Standard Hochdeutsch as Language of a Bible Translation?<br />
Since I have been on the internet, which happened c. 23 years ago, early 2001, I have more than once been challenged by Protestants on Catholicism supposedly banning Bible translations to the vernacular. I have also more than once referred to the fact I was reading in Konvertitenkatechismus, 1950, by the Jesuits of Paderborn. Before Luther's translation there were already 18 German translations* in print, 14 in "Hochdeutsch" and 4 in "Niederdeutsch".
<br /><br />
Sometimes this fact has been acknowledged even by Protestant adversaries. "Yes," they will say, "the Catholics did translate, but only into very narrow dialects that hardly anyone understands."
<br /><br />
They will give a quote from a Bavarian or Alsatian translation from prior to Luther, and then the same passage in Luther's Bible. Unless you yourself speak the dialect in question, you are guaranteed to understand Luther's Bible better.
<br /><br />
I have then tried to explain something to them. This time, I'm documenting it. Please, keep in mind, the Middle Ages in Germany officially ended on the 30 October 1517, just shortly before Luther translated his Bible, on the day when he nailed the 95 Theses. That's how central, for good or for ill, Luther is to German history.
<br /><br />
<blockquote><b>6:05 — 6:33</b>
<br />Im Mittelalter gab es keine allgemeingültige, geschriebene, deutsche Standardsprache, sondern nur sogenannte Schreibsprachen, die in einem größeren aber regional begrenzten Dialektgebiet, wie dem Bayrischen, dem Alemanischen, dem Mitteldeutschen in Gebrauch waren. Die Bestimmung der Schreibsprache einer Handschrift bietet ein hervorragendes Mittel deren Entstehungsgeschichte einzugrenzen.
<br /><br />
<blockquote><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkDNHIpNgts">Mittelalterliche Handschriften mit dem Leipziger Handschriftenzentrum verstehen lernen
<br /><i>Universitätsbibliothek Leipzig | 5. Sept. 2022</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkDNHIpNgts</a></blockquote></blockquote>
<br /><br />
I translate:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>In the Middle Ages, there was no universal, written, German standard language, but instead only so called Schreibsprachen ["writing languages"], which were in use in a larger, but regionally limited Dialect area, like the Bavarian, the Alemannic, the Middle German ones. To determine the Schreibsprache of a Manuscript allows us an excellent means for circumscribing its history of composition.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
This was still the case. Luther was not using an already extant German standard language, which everyone in all of Germany had learned in school, just that no one had made a Bible translation to it yet, Luther was using one among several other Schreibsprachen.
<br /><br />
We can note that since the Thirty Years War brought Protestants from the North and Catholics from the South in very intense contact with each other (on the battlefield, in mutual prisoners of war exchanges, etc, etc), the German language tended to unify. This war started in 1618, 101 years minus a few months after the theses. Part of the unification was taken care of by the North already having a unified language through the Luther Bible. So, the modern German standard language certainly is daughter to Luther's German to some extent, but it's not ancestor of it. The other contributors do include Martin Opitz, born in Bolesławiec or Bunzlau, far closer to Breslau (present-day Wrocław) than to Wittenberg, a Lutheran, Angelus Silesius, born in Breslau itself, a Catholic, Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen, born in Gelnhausen, in Hesse, who worked as a regiment secretary during the war, and who before writing his ultrafamous novel <i>Simplicius Simplicissimus</i> (something like a mixture of <i>Don Quixote, Gargantua,</i> and <i>Candide</i>) had also resided in Strassburg and in the Black Forest / Renchen / Baden-Würtenberg. So, Luther's dialect area is basically in for about half of the influences, and the other ones are on opposite sides of it. The result is closer to Luther's German than to Bavarian prior to Luther or Alsatian prior to Luther. That's why Luther's Bible seems so much more comprehensible now than the ones I have seen quoted on such occasions.
<br /><br />
But this was not exactly the case for everyone back then.
<br /><br />
Luther himself claimed that the Saxon Chancery had a Schreibsprache which was understood by all Germans. Well, some language pairs are assymetric in mutual comprehension, it is possible that back then a Bavarian would have been better off reading Luther's German, than a Saxon reading Bavarian written German. Luther's claim is not totally beyond the possible. But it was also not an obvious truth that everyone back then would have immediately realised when he started reading and writing, even before Luther made the claim. By now, we are no longer in a position to test the claim.
<br /><br />
But distorting his claim into the proposition that everyone was able to read Goethe and Schiller, had they existed, but for some quirky reason Catholic clergy preferred to translate only for obscure dialect areas and leave most Germans out of a Bible of their own is just not true. It is as said possible that a Bavarian would have had an easier time reading Genesis 11:1 through 9** in Luther's Bible, than a Wittenberger reading it in an already extant Bavarian Bible. It is however certain that a Wittenberger would have understood it better in Luther's Bible, and a Bavarian better in a Bavarian Bible.
<br /><br />
The English clergy's relation to Lollards and to Bible translations, as we have it reported from accounts of the Coventry trials, is absolutely an English thing, Germany had no Catholic problem with the vernacular, and the Catholic backlash Luther faced was not for a German translation, but for his German translation and specific translation choices. My first doubt about Luther's integrity as a Christian theologian actually came when reading his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, or extracts of it, in a German anthology for secondary education. In that sense, Luther not only made me a speaker of German (a language which would not have existed as it does without him), but also a Roman Catholic.
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />Quinquagesima L.D.
<br />11.II.2024
<br /><br />
* See also:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>"<a href="https://www.die-bibel.de/bibeln/wissen-zur-bibel/wissen-bibeluebersetzung/geschichte-der-bibeluebersetzung/deutsche-bibeln-vor-luther/">Deutschsprachige Bibeln vor Luther?</a> Diese erstaunte Frage ist häufig zu hören, gilt doch der Reformator weithin als der Übersetzer der Bibel ins Deutsche. Doch bereits vor Luther wurden 18 deutsche Bibelausgaben gedruckt. Elf Jahre nach dem Erscheinen der Gutenberg-Bibel entstand 1466 mit der Mentelin-Bibel in Straßburg das Erste dieser Kleinode der frühen Buchdruckerkunst. Bis 1522 wurden Bibeln in Augsburg, Nürnberg, Köln, Straßburg, Lübeck und Halberstadt hergestellt. Sie fanden ihren Markt beim aufstrebenden Bürgertum der Städte, aber auch die große Zahl der »Leutpriester« brauchte Bibeln in der Volkssprache, denn Latein verstanden diese in der Regel nicht."</blockquote>
<br /><br />
** I take a theologically neutral text as an example, the first mistranslation of it is in Charles XII's Bible, in which they removed "in the East" instead of "from the East" and it's only recently come to relevance.Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-20216274426390050642024-02-07T06:48:00.000-08:002024-02-07T06:48:51.860-08:00For KJV, No. Against Sinaiticus, Yes.<br />
I know JW's love Sinaiticus.
<br /><br />
I just saw a video by David W. Daniels. It was against Sinaiticus.* I then was intending to leave a comment there, but put it here instead:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>I believe good things about Alexandrians, and about the "seven extra books".
<br /><br />
I believe Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, if genuine, are genuinely made by heretics back then, and therefore laid aside.
<br /><br />
So, using Sinaiticus and Vaticanus to take away verses would be a bad thing even if you totally do trust the LXX tradition.
<br /><br />
I am far less impressed by Tischendorf.**
<br /><br />
A Trinity affirming verse out of the one or both. And Tischendorf's mentor, Georg Benedikt Winer,*** seems to have been anti-Trinitarian.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Meanwhile, I am Catholic, and I have argued the Bible identifies its number of books as 73 overall.° Not in a way which would have been obvious then, but one which is obvious now that we have English miles and even more modern kilometers. Maybe you'd like to take a book at David W. Daniels' book.°° It reads nice in the sample:
<br /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjkkmDGDV_N1wouiOOzRg05GWJequKdcTBDHiTkYXnSWT6sq9Hhxk8uKGt2bSomKABNd7GTmzqDy4C0TMspq8CBP3hyphenhyphencsefFF1pwyA25a-xXjm9gPKeaHfGC4NlO4UjUDeSgWq86tUbvLvf6B3Gq-I-zO3yjezlryHvcJJOC7kXViCN30LO_jjzY4qlqs/s793/tts.jpg" style="display: block; padding: 1em 0; text-align: center; "><img alt="" border="0" width="320" data-original-height="393" data-original-width="793" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjkkmDGDV_N1wouiOOzRg05GWJequKdcTBDHiTkYXnSWT6sq9Hhxk8uKGt2bSomKABNd7GTmzqDy4C0TMspq8CBP3hyphenhyphencsefFF1pwyA25a-xXjm9gPKeaHfGC4NlO4UjUDeSgWq86tUbvLvf6B3Gq-I-zO3yjezlryHvcJJOC7kXViCN30LO_jjzY4qlqs/s320/tts.jpg"/></a></div>
<br /><br />
So, I don't trust Jack Chick's The Death Cookie one bit. But just because David W. Daniels had bad judgement on that one, apparently, doesn't mean I have to mistrust him on his own research./HGL
<br /><br />
* <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVjOhDJ5HKo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVjOhDJ5HKo</a>
<br />** <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_von_Tischendorf">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_von_Tischendorf</a>
<br />*** <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Benedikt_Winer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Benedikt_Winer</a>
<br />° <a href="https://greatbishopofgeneva.blogspot.com/2023/04/does-bible-say-how-many-books-it-has.html">Does the Bible Say How Many Books It Has?</a>
<br />°° <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Who-Faked-Worlds-Oldest-Bible/dp/0758913834">Who Faked the "World's Oldest Bible"?</a>Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-33033474349757736992024-02-05T07:47:00.000-08:002024-02-05T07:47:12.045-08:00Narnia, Dates, Links to Text (no illustrations), Original Publishers<br />
<dl><dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410B2/html.php">The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410B2">October 16th, 1950</a>
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410A9/html.php">Prince Caspian</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410A9">October 15th, 1951</a>
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410B3/html.php">The Voyage of the Dawn Treader</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410B3">September 15th, 1952</a>
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410B0/html.php">The Silver Chair</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410B0">September 7th, 1953</a>
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410B1/html.php">The Horse and His Boy</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410B1">September 6th, 1954</a>
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410A8/html.php">The Magician's Nephew</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410A8">May 5th, 1955</a>
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/books/201410A7/html.php">The Last Battle</a>
<dd><a href="https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=201410A7">September 4th, 1956</a>
<br /><br />
This book is in the public domain in Canada, and is made available to you DRM-free. You may do whatever you like with this book, but mostly we hope you will read it.
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Bles">Geoffrey Bles:</a>
<dd>Bles entered publishing in 1923. Geoffrey Bles Limited were general publishers, but with a specialism in religion and translated works. Among the authors Bles published were: C.S. Lewis, J.B. Phillips, Cecil Street, Mabel Lethbridge, Halliday Sutherland, Vicki Baum,[5] and Maria von Trapp.[6]
<br /><br />
<dt><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bodley_Head">The Bodley Head:</a>
<dd>Herbert George Jenkins was a manager at the firm during the first decade of the twentieth century, before leaving to set up his own publishing house in 1912.[2] The Bodley Head became a private company in 1921. In 1926 it published the Book of Bodley Head Verse, an anthology edited by J. B. Priestley. The firm published some mainstream popular authors such as Arnold Bennett and Agatha Christie and the book series, Twentieth Century Library (edited by V. K. Krishna Menon),[3][4] but ran into financial difficulties. Allen Lane, John Lane's nephew who had inherited control, left in 1936 to found Penguin Books. Before Allen Lane's new company was established, however, he published the first Penguins in 1935 under the imprint of The Bodley Head. Both "Penguin Books" and "The Bodley Head" appeared on the cover.
<br /><br />
The Bodley Head continued after 1936 backed by a consortium of Allen & Unwin, Jonathan Cape, and J. M. Dent. In 1941, John Lane the Bodley Head took over two smaller publishing houses, Gerald Howe Ltd and Martin Hopkinson & Co., whose authors included Cecil Day Lewis and H. L. Mencken.[5]</dl>Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-4123944694877820622024-01-27T08:07:00.000-08:002024-01-27T08:07:33.239-08:00What's the Craic? The Crack of Doom!<br />
The Irish and Hiberno-English word and the English word are both cognates of German Krach, both come from a Middle English word "crak" which means noise or hubbub ...
<br /><br />
In other words, the words are cognates of German Krach.
<br /><br />
<i>Was soll der Krach?</i> and <i>What's the craic?</i> are basically the same question : "what's all the <i>noise</i> about" ...
<br /><br />
And in case you thought doomsday was going to be a silent and intimate event, think again.
<br /><br />
<b>For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first.</b>
<br />[1 Thessalonians 4:15]
<br /><br />
Trumpet's don't sound like piccolo flutes, they sound, well, brassy.
<br /><br />
I suppose an Irishman will wake up and ask "what's the craic?" and a German will ask "was soll der Krach?" ... on the Crack of Doom./HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-76585938840462997262024-01-17T23:52:00.000-08:002024-01-18T03:28:39.344-08:00Sometimes Chesterton was Wrong<br />
I don't mean wrong about ultimate essentials. You cannot be "sometimes" wrong about those. I mean details.
<br /><br />
Here I spotted a historical blooper, and if he's in heaven, as I hope he is (getting him out of purgatory for gluttony could otherwise be a daunting task, but I believe in his innocence), ora pro nobis, he'll forgive me for correcting that one.
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Now the trouble of the nineteenth century very largely came from the loss of this; the loss of what we may call the natural and heathen mysticism. When modern critics say that Julius Caesar did not believe in Jupiter, or that Pope Leo did not believe in Catholicism, they overlook an essential difference between those ages and ours. Perhaps Julius did not believe in Jupiter; but he did not disbelieve in Jupiter. There was nothing in his philosophy, or the philosophy of that age, that could forbid him to think that there was a spirit personal and predominant in the world. But the modern materialists are not permitted to doubt; they are forbidden to believe. Hence, while the heathen might avail himself of accidental omens, queer coincidences or casual dreams, without knowing for certain whether they were really hints from heaven or premonitory movements in his own brain, the modern Christian turned heathen must not entertain such notions at all, but must reject the oracle as the altar. The modern sceptic was drugged against all that was natural in the supernatural. And this was why the modern tyrant marched upon his doom, as a tyrant literally pagan might possibly not have done.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Caesar pretty certainly disbelieved in Jupiter quite as much as Gretta Vosper disbelieves in Christ.
<br /><br />
There was no such thing as a "philosophy of the age" in his day, since there were no modern school systems. In the nineteenth century, you did have one, and those who were outside it, yes, that existed, usually did not bother readers of their works or readers about their life work with references to their divergent philosophy. When they did, that was marked out as something quaint. Something to be patronised. A biography or interview with a village sage could happen, but the foreword made sure he was not to be confused with the sages of the universities, whom people had come to be told were what they should look to guidance for.
<br /><br />
All that was different for old Romans. The nearest they came to having a "philosophy of the age" was having some different competing "fashionable philosophies" which in his day were Stoics and Epicureans, both of which disbelieved in Jupiter. Or rather, they could "believe in Jupiter" in certain moments, just for the mood, in make-believe, but their philosophy very certainly told both of these that the Jupiter Homer and Virgil wrote of did not exist.
<br /><br />
I am not sure which of these Caesar was more fond of, I think that in a Japanese fashion, he was fond of both, and for both of their reasons, was not fond of a literal belief in Jupiter. He was an augur, and as such one of the augurs of whom Cicero said (I think it was Cicero) that two augurs cannot meet without a grin. At each other's and their own antics.
<br /><br />
Anyway, this affords this university educated man, I really took Latin and yesterday, I understood the first half of <a href="http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/04z/z_1956-01-16__SS_Pius_XII__Exulta._Lusitania_Felix__LT.pdf.html">Exulta Lusitania Felix,</a> until it tired me, I don't have the same fluency as in English or in French, the opportunity to do homage to Chesterton who was an Art School educated man, and to the men he did homage to as victims of Capitalist evils (the ones that had built the 19th C.)
<br /><br />
It also affords me the occasion to most formally protest againt the idea that the hagiographers of the Bible were like [Caesar's attitude on] Jupiter. It was only in later times that Sadduceism became fashionable, and even then the writer of II Maccabees takes issue with it.
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />Chair of St. Peter
<br />18.I.2024
<br /><br />
<i>Cathedra sancti Petri Apostoli, qua primum Romae sedit. Ibidem passio sanctae Priscae, Virginis et Martyris; quae sub Claudio Imperatore, post multa tormenta, martyrio coronata est.</i>
<br /><br />
PS, I'm off to check whether St. Volusian lived between St. Martin and the time of Clovis.
<br /><br />
PPS, indeed, he was the third successor of St. Brice, just before Tours was finally salvaged from Arianism by Clovis./HGL
<br /><br />
PPPS, before I forget it, here is the link to Eugenics and Other Evils, from which I quoted part II, chapter IV:
<br /><br />
<a href="http://www.gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/Eugenics.html">Eugenics and Other Evils
<br /><i>by G.K. Chesterton, 1922</i>
<br />http://www.gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/Eugenics.html</a>
<br /><br />
PPPPS, I did a few corrections after signing, like two misspellings and an added phrase in square brackets. I'm still a bit tired this morning.Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-33560440329118986232024-01-17T11:58:00.000-08:002024-01-17T12:02:05.757-08:00[Sur Göbekli Tepe]<br />
Göbekli Tepe n'est pas unique, c'est le propos du documentaire à ce moment :
<br /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyF_Bs6YtTx-s3BbG9vo__EuguWiL4gNyEkdB-jtUl9I5nA4h8Oo5KV5Bqxz5TgzxOtTvmqGnD2blataZwIFM2LYFgDwdQk6UcrYb7iLaaX6SF0JQQ77Vs073LMnkYoSBuS_GgotnP1fbYN7gmPa0cTte8uwSSPBzi3MRynEK2Z-483g0DmAs00O4aftY/s1284/plaineensennaar.jpg" style="display: block; padding: 1em 0; text-align: center; "><img alt="" border="0" width="320" data-original-height="758" data-original-width="1284" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyF_Bs6YtTx-s3BbG9vo__EuguWiL4gNyEkdB-jtUl9I5nA4h8Oo5KV5Bqxz5TgzxOtTvmqGnD2blataZwIFM2LYFgDwdQk6UcrYb7iLaaX6SF0JQQ77Vs073LMnkYoSBuS_GgotnP1fbYN7gmPa0cTte8uwSSPBzi3MRynEK2Z-483g0DmAs00O4aftY/s320/plaineensennaar.jpg"/></a></div>
<br /><br />
J'ai fait des flèches vers le détail pour faire une remarque.
<br /><br />
Göbekli Tepe se trouve juste à côte de Şanlıurfa, marqué sur la carte.
<br /><br />
Là, il y a aussi une plaine. Vert foncé marque une élévation assez basse, entouré ici par des élévations plus hautes.
<br /><br />
À l'Ouest de cette plaine, on voit l'Euphrate. À la limite, l'Euphrate se trouve encore plus au nord que les parties visibles sur la carte.
<br /><br />
À l'Est de cette plaine, on voit le Tigre. À la limite, le Tigre se trouve encore plus au nord que les parties visibles sur la carte.
<br /><br />
La région entre Tigre et Euphrate s'appelle en Grec la Mésopotamie. En Hébreu, on dit (c'est au moins mon avis sur la signification du nom) Sennaar.
<br /><br />
À Göbekli Tepe, il y a une plaine dans le pays de Sennaar. À Babylone classique, celle découverte par Woolley, en Iraq, pas loin de Baghdad, c'est plutôt le pays de Sennaar qui se trouve dans une plaine.
<br /><br />
Pour prouver les cours de Tigre et Euphrate qui débutent plus au nord que Göbekli Tepe, consultons la wikipédie pour les cours ... et pour la location unique de Göbekli Tepe
<br /><br />
<ul><li>le Tigre
<br /><br />
<ul><li> source : 38° 13′ 49″ N, 40° 10′ 34″ E
<li> embouchure : 31° 00′ 20″ N, 47° 26′ 29″ E</ul>
<br /><br />
<li>l'Euphrate
<br /><br />
<ul><li> source : 38° 52′ 29″ N, 38° 47′ 38″ E
<li> confluence : 30° 25′ 29″ N, 48° 10′ 08″ E</ul>
<br /><br />
<li>Göbekli Tepe : 37° 13′ 23″ nord, 38° 55′ 21″ est</ul>
<br /><br />
Donc, même si ça ne se voit pas sur la carte, la plaine ne déborde pas de la Mésopotamie par le nord.
<br /><br />
Retour au propos du documentaire : le Babel de la Genèse, chapitre 11, ne devrait pas être unique. Parce qu'il est identique à celui de Genèse 10.
<br /><br />
<blockquote><b>Le commencement de son empire fut Babel, Arach, Achad et Chalanné au pays de Sennaar. De ce pays[37] il alla en Assur, et bâtit Ninive, Rechoboth-Ir, Chalé, et Résen, entre Ninive et Chalé ; c’est la grande ville.</b> (<a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_Crampon_1923/Gen%C3%A8se#Bible_Crampon_1923/Gen%C3%A8seCH10">chapitre 10</a>)</blockquote>
<br /><br />
On aime imaginer que "ce pays" se trouve vers Babylone classique, et que le voyage en Assur, ou d'Assur comme bâtisseur (on peut aussi traduire "de ce pays alla Assur") était un voyage vers le nord-ouest. C'est aussi possible, et de certains d'autres côtés préférable, que "ce pays" se trouve dans l'endroit que je viens de marquer, dont je viens de parler.
<br /><br />
<blockquote><b>Étant partis de l’Orient[39], les hommes trouvèrent une plaine dans le pays de Sennaar, et ils s’y établirent.</b> (<a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_Crampon_1923/Gen%C3%A8se#Bible_Crampon_1923/Gen%C3%A8seCH11">chapitre 11</a>)</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Comme le note la note, la Septante et la Vulgate traduisent, et le texte Hébreu se prête à la traduction, "[é]tant partis de l’Orient". Göbekli Tepe est accessible à partir des Montagnes de l'Armenie par un voyage partant, en effet, <i>de</i> l'Orient. Miqqedem. Je pense que les traductions "du côté de l'Orient" qui sont indubitables dans d'autres parties de la Bible sont <i>tous</i> sans un verbum movendi. Sans verbe ou avec un verbe statique, une langue donné, je pense que c'est le cas en Hébreu, peut utiliser une phrase ou un adverbe voulant dire "de X" pour dire "du côté d'X" mais quand il y a quelqu'un ou quelque chose qui bouge dans la phrase, par exzmple "étant partis" ... le sens devrait se retrouver dans le sens primaire "de X" .../HGL
<br /><br />
<b>Notes 37 et 39 de la Genèse Crampon :</b>
<br /><br />
<b>37</b> On traduit d’ordinaire (LXX, Vulgate, etc.), <i>de ce pays sortit Assur, qui bâtit,</i> etc. Mais tout indique qu’<i>Assur</i> désigne ici un pays, non un homme, et que l’historien achève dans ce verset sa notice sur Nemrod.
<br /><b>39</b> <i>Étant partis de l’Orient.</i> Ainsi traduisent les Septante et la Vulgate ; le texte hébreu se prête à cette traduction. On traduit souvent néanmoins : <i>étant allés du côté de l’Orient.</i>
<br /><br />
<b>La vidéo,</b> pas encore regardée, mais technique et sans doute assez bien informée et ne partageant pas (ouvertement jusqu'ici) mon propos, est celle-ci, je donne la signature de temps:
<br /><br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/q8afP3FMjag?si=x7NUuIynZaixegNS&t=1252">https://youtu.be/q8afP3FMjag?si=x7NUuIynZaixegNS&t=1252</a>Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-90259137518227222952024-01-13T07:32:00.000-08:002024-01-15T14:15:05.986-08:00La secte des Druzes n'existait pas au temps de Jésus, mais leurs ancêtres, par contre oui<br />
<a href="https://www.arcinfo.ch/monde/religion-des-tests-adn-approfondissent-un-peu-plus-le-mystere-sur-saint-suaire-de-jesus-christ-452810">Religion: des tests ADN approfondissent un peu plus le mystère sur Saint Suaire de Jésus Christ
<br /><i>26 oct. 2015, 13:40 / Màj. le 26 oct. 2015 à 14:09</i>
<br />https://www.arcinfo.ch/monde/religion-des-tests-adn-approfondissent-un-peu-plus-le-mystere-sur-saint-suaire-de-jesus-christ-452810</a>
<br /><br />
<blockquote>De l'ADN végétal et humain a été retrouvé sur la relique. Les traces végétales proviennent des quatre coins du globe, de l'Amérique du Nord à l'Extrême-Orient. Côté humain, le spectre s'étend de l'Afrique du Nord à la Chine.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
C'est ce qu'on appelle contamination.
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Mais les traces les plus nombreuses viennent du Moyen-Orient et du Caucase, soit dans la région où le corps de Jésus a été enterré. "C'est de l'ADN typique des Druzes, originaires d'Egypte, et qui vivent principalement entre la Syrie, la Jordanie, le Liban, Israël et la Palestine."</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Ce que me fait poser la question, est-ce que les Druzes sont Israëlites ?
<br /><br />
Cette liste semble de le confirmer, c'est une distance qui monte en fonction que les items baissent, vis-à-vis un génôme ancien israëlite :
<br /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMHOBEEjKdjpQPj5vdo6XJoS7qcGKq-c-GfHPzYP6zhCRT7g8Okx7i41nq6ggJuOvEG8FZly8TggfxNCTw-Jr1OQ60P2Y_4eO-lKiM0oHUIS50zYHSNw38-nXVaSn3VOEk3Bj1ad04HbX1Zc99lB2CaArzcANv3T0FUqdZlRnq8p2sA-GbYGdIqxiNA_Q/s1281/druz.jpg" style="display: block; padding: 1em 0; text-align: center; "><img alt="" border="0" width="320" data-original-height="671" data-original-width="1281" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMHOBEEjKdjpQPj5vdo6XJoS7qcGKq-c-GfHPzYP6zhCRT7g8Okx7i41nq6ggJuOvEG8FZly8TggfxNCTw-Jr1OQ60P2Y_4eO-lKiM0oHUIS50zYHSNw38-nXVaSn3VOEk3Bj1ad04HbX1Zc99lB2CaArzcANv3T0FUqdZlRnq8p2sA-GbYGdIqxiNA_Q/s320/druz.jpg"/></a></div>
<br />
<br />Je cite les items que j'ai marqués :
<br />
<br />Chrétien palestinien, 0,02570751
<br />Druze de Liban, 0,04376445
<br />Druze d'Israël, 0,04399032
<br />Musulman palestinien, 0,5395741
<br />
<br />22:55—23:11
<br /><br />
<blockquote>He makes the point in his tweets, genetic distances around point 02 or under mean a group is practically genetically indistinguishable. 05 implies distinguishability but belong to the same genetic regional grouping: so for example a sub racial grouping like Northwestern European or Eastern European.*</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Notez, le génôme ancien est ...
<br /><br />
<a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel-beth-maachah">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel-beth-maachah</a>
<br /><br />
... en Galilée, mais dans la vidéo, ce n'est pas noté de quelle époque exacte. Par contre, sur la wikipédie, il semble y avoir un seul endroit qui correspond à un échantillon humain ou à des échantillons humains :
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Les vestiges de l'âge du bronze moyen se composent d'un bâtiment avec quatre salles consécutives révélées à ce jour, avec des entrées dans deux d'entre elles, montrant que les chambres faisaient partie d'un bâtiment qui continue vers le nord. Des traces d'une fin violente à cette occupation ont été identifiées. La poterie peut être datée du bronze moyen IIB et comprend des pots de stockage (certains avec des sépultures de bébé) et des pithoi. Dans le coin nord-est de la zone, le squelette d'un gros mâle a été retrouvé couché sur le ventre et partiellement couvert par un pithos.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Ce qui laisse la question, était-ce encore des Canaanéens, ou étaient-ce des Israëlites ?
<br /><br />
Et les réponses vont diverger entre moi et certains d'autres.
<br /><br />
a) par rapport à la chronologie de l'Exode ;
<br />b) par rapport à la chronologie des datations carboniques.
<br /><br />
<ul><li> "According to Biblical chronology, the Exodus took place in the 890th year before the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 421 BCE (generally accepted date: 587 BCE).1 This was 1310 BCE (1476 BCE)." (le Juif date l'Exode à 1310 av.J.C.)** + dates carboniques tels quels (pas totalement évident si on pense que 587 av.J.C. est une mauvaise datation pour 421) = le Bronze II B était déjà passé avant l'arrivé des Israëlites ;
<li> Selon le martyrologe romain, du 25 déc, Jésus est né 1510 après l'Exode, et mes calibrations*** donnent que ça pourrait se dater vers 1610, ou encore un peu plus tard. Le Bronze II B débute avec ou peu avant l'arrivé des Israëlites.</ul>
<br /><br />
Donc, les Druzes sont à mon avis descendants d'Israëlites, et c'est parfaitement concevable que parmi les Israëlites d'il y a 2000 ans, environ 1000 ans avant la fondation de la religion des Druzes, Notre Seigneur avait un génôme plutôt proche des leurs. 1500 ans d'histoire pourrait très bien expliquer la distance de virgule 04 et quelque entre son génôme et celui de certains ancêtres peu après l'Exode.
<br /><br />
Un Juif pourrait arriver à une autre conclusion. Ou non, s'il considère les dates carboniques davantage déformés à l'époque de l'Exode que moi (même date carbonique pour une daté réelle plus récente).
<br /><br />
Ceci importe pour l'Israëlité des Palestiniens, comme pour la génuinité du Sindone de Turin./HGL
<br /><br />
PS, même mieux, il semble qu'il s'agit d'un autre génôme d'Abel Beth Maacah! Tellement tard qu'il n'y ait pas de doute qu'il s'agit d'un Israëlite très probable :
<br /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEieQtlx1WQz-O5rpU7oy2TEExsmtwgRdl_FRxZRBra4NYlxaCbJ5GWQVnDCXeIDebVL_I1iIYZ-Rp2Vw2RHbpVOLuwdTK6C_ETJ6SaTUEXUWK2gtIkcaq_MVpHiONelJmSpYNF2deZzDexgSf5kkwtS13FYu4t-k7FvtQYe1K3E-i3iuCC39sE_J7XkBNY/s1220/bethmaacah.jpg" style="display: block; padding: 1em 0; text-align: center; "><img alt="" border="0" width="320" data-original-height="443" data-original-width="1220" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEieQtlx1WQz-O5rpU7oy2TEExsmtwgRdl_FRxZRBra4NYlxaCbJ5GWQVnDCXeIDebVL_I1iIYZ-Rp2Vw2RHbpVOLuwdTK6C_ETJ6SaTUEXUWK2gtIkcaq_MVpHiONelJmSpYNF2deZzDexgSf5kkwtS13FYu4t-k7FvtQYe1K3E-i3iuCC39sE_J7XkBNY/s320/bethmaacah.jpg"/></a></div>
<br /><br />
Source, cette vidéo, à 0 minutes et 42 secondes :
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FSpRiqoA7E">THE GENETIC ORIGINS OF THE ANCIENT ISRAELITES
<br /><i>Ancestralbrew | 13 Jan. 2024</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FSpRiqoA7E</a>
<br /><br />
* Traduction : Il le souligne dans ses tweets, les distances génétiques autour du <strike>point</strike> <i>virgule</i> 02 ou en dessous signifient qu'un groupe est pratiquement génétiquement indiscernable. 05 implique une distinction mais appartient au même groupement régional génétique : par exemple un sous-groupe racial comme l'Europe du Nord-Ouest ou l'Europe de l'Est.
<br /><br />
** <a href="https://www.ou.org/holidays/when_was_the_exodus/">When Was the Exodus?</a> par Brad Aaronson (29 Juin 2006), sur un site "Orthodox Union"
<br /><br />
*** <a href="https://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/2020/06/tables-continues-vi-ix.html">Mes calibrations tels quels, depuis 2020 :</a>
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>1588 av. J.-Chr.
<dd>97,068 pcm et donc daté comme 1838 av. J.-Chr.
<dt>1566 av. J.-Chr.
<dd>97,441 pcm et donc daté comme 1776 av. J.-Chr.
<dt>1543 av. J.-Chr.
<dd>97,813 pcm et donc daté comme 1723 av. J.-Chr.
<dt>1521 av. J.-Chr.
<dd>98,184 pcm et donc daté comme 1671 av. J.-Chr.
<dt>1498 av. J.-Chr.
<dd>98,555 pcm et donc daté comme 1618 av. J.-Chr.
<dt>1476 av. J.-Chr.
<dd>98,924 pcm et donc daté comme 1566 av. J.-Chr.</dl>
<br /><br />
C'est possible d'imaginer une occillation dans la montée du carbone 14, qui donnerait que 1511, évidemment après 1521 et avant 1498, au lieu d'avoir une date carbonique d'entre 1671 et 1618, auraient une date carbonique identique à l'éruption de Santorini, Théra, si ça a plu au Tout-Puissant de se servir de cet événement naturel pour certaines des plaies d'Égypte. La date carbonique est donc 1609 av. J.C. pour l'éruption.Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-20750290287444317422024-01-08T11:14:00.000-08:002024-01-08T11:14:47.790-08:00For a Pope to be a Pope, he must be the one that Secular Rulers know they should be dealing with, right?<br />
Like the Christmas messages on Radio to the faithful, in Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, one year even in English. How could he have spread them on the Radio, if there hadn't been country after country willing to broadcast his words?
<br /><br />
<blockquote><a href="https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1941/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19411224_radiomessage-peace.html">RADIOMESSAGGIO DI SUA SANTITÀ PIO XII
<br /><i>Mercoledì, 24 dicembre 1941(1)</i>
<br />https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1941/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19411224_radiomessage-peace.html</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1942/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19421224_radiomessage-christmas.html">RADIOMESSAGGIO DI SUA SANTITÀ PIO XII
<br />ALLA VIGILIA DEL SANTO NATALE
<br /><i>Giovedì, 24 dicembre 1942(1)</i>
<br />https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1942/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19421224_radiomessage-christmas.html</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1943/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19431224_radiom-natalizio-popoli.html">RADIOMESSAGGIO DI SUA SANTITÀ PIO XII
<br />AI POPOLI DEL MONDO INTERO*
<br /><i>Venerdì, 24 dicembre 1943</i>
<br />https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1943/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19431224_radiom-natalizio-popoli.html</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1944/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19441224_natale.html">RADIOMESSAGGIO NATALIZIO DI SUA SANTITÀ PIO XII
<br />AI POPOLI DEL MONDO INTERO*
<br /><i>Domenica, 24 dicembre 1944</i>
<br />https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1944/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19441224_natale.html</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1945/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19451224_negli-ultimi.html">DISCORSO DI SUA SANTITÀ PIO XII
<br />«NEGLI ULTIMI SEI ANNI»
<br /><i>24 dicembre 1945</i>
<br />https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/it/speeches/1945/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19451224_negli-ultimi.html</a></blockquote>
<br /><br />
38:06 — 39:20
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fWrJ4WHz_g">Time travel to medieval Europe - Q&A
<br /><i>Premodernist | 28 Dec. 2023</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fWrJ4WHz_g</a>
<br /><br />
<blockquote>And one thing to keep in mind about that is, 1054 was not a unique situation. There were lots of schisms. There were lots of situations where the Church got split in temporary ways, for particular circumstances they'd split for a particular period of time. Like in the 12th century, it was really common for there to be two popes at the same time. We don't hear about this today. If you take a world history class today, if it talks about late medieval Catholicism at all, it might talk about the Great Schism of the West, where there were two popes in the late 1300s. But that wasn't a unique situation. All through the 12th century there were multiple times when there were two different popes, and also at other times too before and after that. Because the cardinals would pick one pope. The emperor (what we call the Holy Roman Emperor) didn't like that choice. He'd come down with his army and get another pope elected. So now you have two popes. And because he's there with his army, the previously elected pope would flee and go to somewhere else where he'd be safe from the imperial troops. And so now you have two popes in two different towns. That was super common in the Middle Ages.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
So, how did they manage, when in some countries and cities no one was broadcasting them? Innocent II was not in a position to send radio messages for Christmas, even if there had been a radio. At least not all of the years. When the Emperor came as a penitent to him in Canossa, actually he had first gone as a refugee to Canossa to escape the Emperor.
<br /><br />
So, why didn't the Emperor get to Canossa with an armed guard and arrest the Pope instead? Well presumably he didn't want trouble with Lotharingia. What's the connexion? Matilda of Tuscany had a maternal grandfather and a husband (divorced as when we speak of separated, not as when we speak of divorced) who were Dukes respectively of Upper and Lower Lorraine. She was the owner of the castle Canossa. She also was an ardent supporter of Pope Innocent II. And that's basically how Innocent II avoided being eaten and swallowed by the Emperor. A pretty far cry from Pius XII sitting even just beside Mussolini (who was respectful of the Lateran Treaty) and disposing of several countries' willingness to pass on his Christmas message on their radio stations.
<br /><br />
In the Middle Ages, most of the time, there was no regular postal service built on international collaboration. Each Pope sent emissaries, rather than rely on an independent postal service. That's another way in which they could be Popes even if opposed by a world that basically preferred the Antipopes.
<br /><br />
Today, you have the internet. As the late Pope Michael I said : "nuff said"/HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-10021890261444951752024-01-02T02:24:00.000-08:002024-01-02T02:24:53.885-08:00Ilitch Oulianov s'épèle en suédois Iljitj Uljanov.<br />
Il était d'un quart suédois, l'information n'est donc pas otieuse. Dans le livre de Ken Follett, non seulement le régime de la Prusse, mais aussi celui de la Suède le permettent le transit, et l'aident matériellement. Ken Follett étant romancier, je ne sais pas combien ça repose sur sa recherche et combien sur son imaginaire.
<br /><br />
Mais de toute manière, Ilitch Oulianov était d'un quart suédois.
<br /><br />
IULJANOV en ASCII donne :
<br /><br />
<table><tr><td>I <td>73 </tr>
<tr><td>U <td>85 <td>150</tr>
<tr><td>L <td>76 <td>220 <td>14</tr>
<tr><td>J <td>74 <td>290 <td>18 <td>570</tr>
<tr><td>A <td>65 <td>350 <td>23 <td>+46</tr>
<tr><td>N <td>78 <td>420 <td>31 <td>=</tr>
<tr><td>O <td>79 <td>490 <td>40 <td>616</tr>
<tr><td>V <td>86 <td>570 <td>46</tr></table>
<br /><br />
Selon la majorité des manuscrits, le nombre de la bête, qui selon les pères de l'Église était une gématrie ("isopséphismos" = "gématrie"), c'est 666. Juste une minorité des manuscrits ont 616. Par contre, un des Pères qui avaient un tel manuscrit, c'était St. Césaire d'Arles.
<br /><br />
Selon lui, XICT représente XPICT sans la lettre P (rho), donc sans la lettre forte et âpre, donc quelqu'un qui veut juste le doux du Christianisme et pas les parties âpres.
<br /><br />
Pour moi, ça représente un certain type d'Antichrists <i>préliminaires.</i> Hitler avait cette gématrie en minuscules :
<br /><br />
<table><tr><td>H <td>72 </tr>
<tr><td>I <td>73 <td>32 <td>140 <td>05 <td>430 <td>456</tr>
<tr><td>T <td>84 <td>32 <td>220 <td>09 <td>+26 <td>160</tr>
<tr><td>L <td>76 <td>32 <td>290 <td>15 <td>=</tr>
<tr><td>E <td>69 <td>32 <td>350 <td>24 <td>456 <td>616</tr>
<tr><td>R <td>82 <td>32 <td>430 <td>26</tr></table>
<br /><br />
Pour moi, le mal que fit Hitler, Ilitch Oulianov le fit en plus grand. J'avais un doute sur l'eugénisme, certes un mal très grand, très proche des derniers temps [1 Timothée 4:3], mais dont Ilitch Oulianov semblait libre.
<br /><br />
Non, si Lénine n'a pas réussi un programme de l'eugénisme, il avait commencé de le préparer. Ce sera plus tard Staline et Lysenko qui interrompent ceci. Lénine était donc en avance sur Wendell Holmes, sur Per Albin et bien entendu sur Hitler. Ce dernier avait la bonne grâce de se faire battre en 1945, ce qui a réussi (avec l'aide de Konrad Adenauer) de bannir l'eugénisme de l'Allemagne. Merci, peut-être surtout à George Patton. Mais encore d'avantage à Adenauer !
<br />/HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-36008082941473106362024-01-02T01:48:00.000-08:002024-01-02T01:48:48.432-08:00Haydock ne se prononce pas Haddock !<br />
Mais le capitaine avait au moins le respect pour la Basilique de St. Pierre.
<br /><br />
Voici Haydock :
<br /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzLkKuE1gGxBXcRoM1PBR2hLiqpTUkqV9a1Rbg7mm4UIhCwt5rhVCJrwWYNDo-lO1fh5SJox9AYpV_jISB0mf-JDs4b08FUmTAvhYsEWPpbL9ffR3tSMocMz5DYdmqvLiiCpBr6AS_VM9fVN04x-9iYpRZOydxAGZAavOXZgjQID72fYi4ylo4dpv40M4/s954/Haydock.jpg" style="display: block; padding: 1em 0; text-align: center; "><img alt="" border="0" height="320" data-original-height="954" data-original-width="580" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzLkKuE1gGxBXcRoM1PBR2hLiqpTUkqV9a1Rbg7mm4UIhCwt5rhVCJrwWYNDo-lO1fh5SJox9AYpV_jISB0mf-JDs4b08FUmTAvhYsEWPpbL9ffR3tSMocMz5DYdmqvLiiCpBr6AS_VM9fVN04x-9iYpRZOydxAGZAavOXZgjQID72fYi4ylo4dpv40M4/s320/Haydock.jpg"/></a></div>
<br /><br />
J'ai obtenu <a href="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4347043812_44ef095b82_o.jpg">cet image</a> en clicquant sur le premier ici :
<br /><a href="http://bibles.wikidot.com/haydockfolio"><i>Internet Bible Catalog : Haydock First Folio Series (1811-1831)</i>
<br />http://bibles.wikidot.com/haydockfolio</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leo_Haydock"><i>George Leo Haydock</i> (ENG)
<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leo_Haydock</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leo_Haydock"><i>George Leo Haydock</i> (ESP)
<br />https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leo_Haydock</a>
<br /><br />
Après ENGlish et ESPañol, va-t-on arriver à une version FRançaise de cet article ? Pourquoi l'article en DEutsch n'est pas encore là ?/HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-1960540153173254412023-12-30T11:08:00.000-08:002023-12-31T17:32:13.629-08:00Two Challenges Against Christmas, Answered<br />
<b>Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere:</b> <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2023/12/answering-tovia-singer-on-december-25.html">Answering Tovia Singer on December 25</a> · <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2023/12/sharing-on-december-25-kurt-simmons.html">Sharing on December 25, Kurt Simmons</a> · <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2023/12/attacks-on-christmas-feast-from.html">Attacks on the Christmas Feast from a Protestant, Answered</a> · <b>Φιλολoγικά/Philologica:</b> <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2023/12/two-challenges-against-christmas.html">Two Challenges Against Christmas, Answered</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlsXtTf6n0">When Was Jesus REALLY born??
<br /><i>Bruce Avilla | 14 Dec. 2014</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlsXtTf6n0</a>
<br /><br />
1:53 — 2:25
<blockquote>that the lambing season that's the only time that's where they're watching at any time of day any time of night they're watching for any birth that's the only time and when would that happen the Lambs are not like people they're only born at one time I never knew that yeah it must be a dummy honestly Lambs are only born at a certain time of the year not like us they can only be born a certain season Lambs are born in the springtime that's the first thing they're born in the springtime they could start as early as as February but it really would go March April that's the center that's the Hebrew month of Nissan</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Ramat Hanadiv does not agree:
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.ramat-hanadiv.org.il/en/magazine/congraaaaatulations/">Congraaaaatulations!
<br /><i>Published: 30.12.20</i>
<br />https://www.ramat-hanadiv.org.il/en/magazine/congraaaaatulations/</a>
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Winter is kidding and lambing season in the goat pen at Ramat Hanadiv, but this doesn’t stop the goats and sheep from working: each day they go out to the field and play an important role in preventing fires, while our staff looks after the kids and lambs that stay behind in the pen.
<br /><br />
Winter is the busiest season in the pen – it’s kidding and lambing season. From late November to late March there will be a number of births each day; between 100 and 200 kids and lambs will be born here. The pen will become a particularly lively nursery.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Did you notice the date? 30.12.20 — 30th <i>December</i> 2020.
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzwNn6lhnF8">When Was Jesus Really Born? Exact Date Given! | Dr. Gene Kim | Bible Study
<br /><i>REAL Bible Believers | 1 Jan. 2021</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzwNn6lhnF8</a>
<br /><br />
0:00 — 0:57
<blockquote>when was jesus really born now a lot of people think that he was born on december 25th of christmas but the simple answer is no the reason why it's no is because all you have to do is a simple search on december 25th and it's the birthday of something pagan and it's not the lord jesus christ it's uh the devil's crowd if you read the book by alexander hislop the two babylon as well as from david w daniels the babylon religion which i would highly recommend for you to read it's really cool it's all in comic format and he david daniels documents really well so the babylon religion it points out through those works that semoramus and nimrod that's what the christmas day was patterned after the sun god and it was for the birthday of nimrod supposedly reincarnating into tammuz now notice what's that satan's job it's to change the</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Great, except for two details:
<ul><li> Hislop's research is worthless. You can just as well use tea leaves. He pretended to be expert on the Old Babylonian religion, and wrote his Two Babylons right when Assyriology was just starting. Actual assyriologists have not confirmed him. The Roman calendar as we have it did not pre-exist Jesus' birth by very much. The Egyptian calendar Caesar used had 365 days, but no leap years. Over time any given Egyptian month would end up any season. Just a bit slower than the Muslim calendar with actual lunar months. The Old Roman calendars did have the month December, but ...
<ol><li> the one of Romulus had ten lunar months, starting March, and winter, without counting months
<li> later on the winter sometimes had two lunar months, January and February, sometimes three, adding Mercedonius. This started way before Romans had significant known contact with Babylonian or Egyptian like cultures.</ol>
<li> even if one could tie "Nimrod's birthday" to Dec. 25th, which one can't, this is not a theological reason against Jesus being born that day too. Here is Josephus on Nimrod:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>He also said he would be revenged on God, if he should have a mind to drown the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach! and that he would avenge himself on God for destroying their forefathers!
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Source : <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2848/2848-h/2848-h.htm#link2HCH0004"><i>Antiquities, Book I, Chapter 4, § 2</i>
<br />https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2848/2848-h/2848-h.htm#link2HCH0004</a></blockquote></blockquote>
<br /><br />
So, Nimrod and Jesus both are seen as saviours, and when we compare Josephus' view of Nimrod with most Dispensationalists' view on Calvary, each on top of that, "from the wrath of God" — if Kim can take that much of a parallel with Nimrod, why would shared birthdays, if such, be a problem?</ul>
<br /><br />
Now, if Dr. Kim wanted to pretend that Josephus is not the Bible, well, neither is the "research" of Hislop!
<br />/HGL
<br /><br />
PS, Here is a third:
<br /><a href="https://www.academia.edu/41134598/The_Course_of_Abijah_Abia_and_the_Birth_of_Christ">The Course of Abijah (Abia) & the Birth of Christ
<br /><i>William Struse (shared on Academia)</i>
<br />https://www.academia.edu/41134598/The_Course_of_Abijah_Abia_and_the_Birth_of_Christ</a>
<br /><br />
He assumes each course of service is two weeks long. He assumes neither year is a leapyear. He assumes all months are four weeks long, when in fact they are 29 or 30 days.
<br /><br />
But, worst of all, he assumes each year starts with Jehoiarib in Nisan. Can the Hebrew calendar have two consecutive non-leap-years? Yes, a lunisolar year 8 year cycle will only have three leapyears, not four. It's not a safe bet, but it is within possibilities. So is the assumption of two weeks consecutive service. It's quite a bit of a stretch to assume the courses around month endings are stretched to accomodate for longer months. But it is totally impossible to assume all years began with the course of Jehoiarib. 1 week times 24 courses of a week means 168 days. His assumption of two week services means 2*168 days, i e 336 days. If you supposed all three major feasts outside this cycle, you'd add 21 and get 357 days. In fact, a Hebrew year is 354 days, or 353 if it's short, 355 of it's long, and 30 more days if it's a leap year. Two consecutive years will not both start on a Sabbath, when the courses changed. If the mention of all courses serving the major feasts doesn't simply mean they fell on different courses each year, even so three consecutive years won't start on the same course, and if it means that, then even two won't. Each year won't start on the course of Jehoiarib, rather the course of Jehoiarib will recur at the beginning of the year in diverse cycles of perhaps 24 years./HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-60332273110015555522023-12-27T03:35:00.000-08:002023-12-27T09:59:57.524-08:00A Reason Against Egyptian Records<br />
<b>Creation vs. Evolution:</b> <a href="https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2023/01/480-years-from-exodus-to-temple.html">480 Years From Exodus to Temple?</a> · <b>Φιλολoγικά / Philologica:</b> <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2023/12/against-late-date-of-exodus.html">Against a Late Date of the Exodus</a> · <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2023/12/a-reason-against-egyptian-records.html">A Reason Against Egyptian Records</a>
<br /><br />
Armstrong Institute speak about ...
<br /><br />
<blockquote>On the surface, there appear to be plenty of options for identifying the Exodus pharaoh. Digging down into the details, however, it becomes evident that no other Egyptian period, dynasty and pharaoh gets nearly as close to matching the biblical text as the New Kingdom period’s Thutmosid dynasty pharaoh, Amenhotep II!</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Their case in part is about this being the date:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Amenhotep II = 1453–1426 B.C.E.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://armstronginstitute.org/882-who-was-the-pharaoh-of-the-exodus">Armstrong Institute of Biblical Archaeology : Who Was the Pharaoh of the Exodus?
<br /><i>By Christopher Eames</i>
<br />https://armstronginstitute.org/882-who-was-the-pharaoh-of-the-exodus</a>
<br /><br />
Now, on another discussion, recently, not published, someone spoke of verification of Egyptian records being possible because of coordination with known celestial phenomena.
<br /><br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenhotep_II">Here*</a> is a little remark on that principle in this connexion:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Amenhotep's coronation can be dated without much difficulty because of a number of lunar dates in the reign of his father, Thutmose III. These sightings limit the date of Thutmose's accession to either 1504 or 1479 BC.[16] Thutmose died after 54 years of reign,[17] at which time Amenhotep would have acceded to the throne. Amenhotep's short coregency with his father would then move his accession two years and four months earlier,[7] dating his accession to either 1427 BC in the low chronology,[18] or in 1454 BC in the high chronology.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>[7]
<dd>Charles C. Van Siclen. "Amenhotep II," <i>The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt.</i> Ed. Donald Redford. Vol. 1, p.71. Oxford University Press, 2001.
<dt>[16]
<dd>Edward F. Wente, <i>Thutmose III's Accession and the Beginning of the New Kingdom,</i> p.267. Journal of Near Eastern Studies, The University of Chicago Press, 1975.
<dt>[17]
<dd>Breasted, James Henry. <i>Ancient Records of Egypt,</i> Vol. II p. 234. University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 1906.
<dt>[18]
<dd>Shaw, Ian; and Nicholson, Paul. <i>The Dictionary of Ancient Egypt.</i> p.28. The British Museum Press, 1995.</dl>
<br /><br />
So, the Biblical Archaeologists at Armstrong Institute are wagering on the "high chronology" ... check this, not footnoted:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>His reign is usually dated from 1427 to 1401 BC. His consort was Tiaa, who was barred from any prestige until Amenhotep's son, Thutmose IV, came into power.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
So, archaeologists and Egyptologists prefer the "low chronology." This makes Amenhotep II too late for the Exodus.
<br /><br />
This means, Hatshepsut is not the female ruler who was pharao's daughter, but an earlier one is. I think the one earlier that's available, without going back even further, is Sobekneferu or Neferusobek, which obviously means, I am casting Amenemhat IV (who got a cenotaph, not a proper grave) for the role of Moses, so to speak mourned after he fled (Exodus 2). No originality claimed here, my choice is that of an Egyptologist who wrote in 2001:
<br /><br />
<a href="https://creation.com/searching-for-moses"><i>Searching for Moses</i>
<br />by David Down | This article is from
<br /><i>Journal of Creation 15(1):53–57, April 2001</i>
<br />https://creation.com/searching-for-moses</a>
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Amenemhet III may have had one son, known as Amenemhet IV, who was an enigmatic character who may have followed his father or may have been a co-regent with him. If the latter, Amenemhet IV could well have been Moses. Amenemhet IV mysteriously disappeared off the scene before the death of Amenemhet III.
<br /><br />
Amenemhet III had a daughter whose name was Sobekneferu. It is known that she had no children.6 If she was the daughter of Pharaoh who came down to the river to bathe, it is easy to understand why she was there. It was not because she had no bathroom in her palace. She would have been down there taking a ceremonial ablution and praying to the river god Hapi, who was also the god of fertility. Having no children she would have needed such a god, and when she found the beautiful baby Moses there she would have considered it an answer to her prayers (Exodus 2:5–6).</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>[6]
<dd>Edwards, I.E.S. <i>et al., The Cambridge Ancient History,</i> Vol. II, part I, Cambridge University Press, p. 43, 1975; David, R., <i>Ancient Egypt,</i> Harper Collins, p. 20, 1988.</dl>
<br /><br />
Let's cite Christopher Eames again, doublechecking in David Down:
<br /><br />
<blockquote><u>David Down opined</u> Neferhotep I. Alfred Edersheim believed it was Thutmose II. Herman Hoeh, originally following a form of Velikovskian chronology, initially believed it was Merenre Nemtyemsaf II; later, following more conventional chronology, Amenhotep II. Isaac Asimov believed it to be Merneptah. According to Sigmund Freud—yes, even the famous psychologist studied the question—it was Akhenaten.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<blockquote><u>I identify</u> Khasekemre-Neferhotep I as the pharaoh from whom Moses demanded Israel’s release. I do so because Petrie found scarabs21 of former kings at Kahun. But the latest scarab he found there was of Neferhotep, who was apparently the pharaoh ruling when the Israelite slaves suddenly left Kahun and fled from Egypt in the Exodus. According to Manetho, he was the last king to rule before the Hyksos occupied Egypt ‘without a battle’. Without a battle? Where was the Egyptian army? It was at the bottom of the Red Sea Exodus 14:28). Khasekemre-Neferhotep I was probably the pharaoh of the Exodus. His mummy has never been found.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>[21]
<dd>The term scarab in archaeological reports refers to seals used for sealing documents though they were often used as ornaments. In either case, they were made of stone, metal or even pottery, with the shape of the scarab beetle on top and the name and title of the king engraved underneath, so when it was pressed down on the soft clay it left his seal impression.</dl>
<br /><br />
Yes, David Down did say Neferhotep I. Now, since some have claimed me as a Velikovskian, I am glad for Christopher Eames clarification:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Herman Hoeh, originally following a form of Velikovskian chronology, initially believed it was Merenre Nemtyemsaf II; later, following more conventional chronology, Amenhotep II.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
So "what would Velikovsky say" seems to be <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merenre_Nemtyemsaf_II">Merenre Nemtyemsaf II.**</a> That's 6th dynasty. That's conventional chronology (from above it should be clear it's not carbon dates) ...
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>Reign
<dd>1 year and 1 month, 2194 BC,[1] 2184 BC,[2][3][4] 2180 BC,[5] 2152 BC,[6]
<dt>[1]
<dd>Jürgen von Beckerath: <i>Chronologie des pharaonischen Ägypten</i> (Chronology of the Egyptian Pharaohs), Mainz am Rhein: Verlag Philipp von Zabern (1997), p. 152.
<dt>[2]
<dd>Michael Rice: <i>Who is who in Ancient Egypt,</i> Routledge London & New York 1999, ISBN 0-203-44328-4, see p. 111
<dt>[3]
<dd>Jaromir Malek: <i>The Old Kingdom</i> in Ian Shaw (editor): <i>The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt,</i> Oxford University Press, new edition (2003), ISBN 978-0192804587
<dt>[4]
<dd>Peter A. Clayton: <i>Chronicle of the Pharaohs: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt</i>, Thames & Hudson (2006), ISBN 0-500-28628-0, see p. 64.
<dt>[5]
<dd>Thomas Schneider: <i>Lexikon der Pharaonen,</i> Düsseldorf 2002.
<dt>[6]
<dd>Erik Hornung (editor), Rolf Krauss (editor), David A. Warburton (editor): <i>Ancient Egyptian Chronology,</i> Handbook of Oriental Studies, Brill 2012, ISBN 978-90-04-11385-5, <a href="https://archive.org/details/AncientEgyptianChronology">available online copyright-free,</a> see p. 491.</dl>
<br /><br />
By contrast, what David Down says is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neferhotep_I">Khasekemre-Neferhotep I***</a>. I will not go through all the options given for his regnal years. I'll just go with the two extremes, and you can check the footnotes yourself. It's 1736 to 1694. Again, I hope none of this involves a carbon date. Because, my carbon date for the Exodus would be from the tephra of Santorini or Thera eruption, carbon dated from tephra to 1609 BC. I put the Exodus, based on the Roman Martyrology for Christmas Day, in 1511 BC. For carbon dates, the reduction is 98 years. For presumably a date combining later carbon dates and chronicles back, it's 225 to 183 years.
<br /><br />
The distance to Amenhotep II's accession, for which I chose the later date, would be:
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>Conventionally:
<dd>1736 - 1427 = 309 years (or less)
<dt>With my Biblical calibration:
<dd>1511 - 1427 = 84 years.</dl>
<br /><br />
The reduction would mainly involve remainders of the Middle Kingdom and the Second Intermediary Period. If each pharao had dated the accession to his throne by reference to a very much earlier epoch, comparable to ab urbe condita or Anno Domini, this would mean positing a confusion that's totally absurd and unrealistic. But in fact, they didn't. Each pharao was dated according to his throne accession and regnal years from then. Sometimes in the case of co-regents, from the father's regnal years, prior to taking over.
<br /><br />
Parallel dynasties being serialised in records to give a false impression of unity (and Second Intermediary Period has a parallel dynasty anyway) would be impossible if each ruler in each of them dated his regnal years starting by so and so many years after Christ or after Rome, but as they didn't, it's a pretty elementary sleight of hand.
<br /><br />
For Velikovskian chronology to work, taking Merenre's death as an example, the distance would instead be:
<br /><br />
<dl><dt>Conventionally:
<dd>2194 - 1427 = 767 years
<dt>With <i>Herman Hoeh's first</i> Biblical calibration:
<dd>1511 - 1427 = 84 years.</dl>
<br /><br />
While I get a reduction by four, Herman Hoeh's first attempt involves one by 9. I am not saying his is totally implausible given the condition of Egyptian records, but I am saying mine is after all less radical.
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />St. John's Day
<br />27.XII.2023
<br /><br />
See also <a href="https://dl0.creation.com/articles/p046/c04618/j20_2_52-pro.pdf">Problems with ‘Searching for Moses’ article
<br /><i>+ David Down replies:</i>
<br />https://dl0.creation.com/articles/p046/c04618/j20_2_52-pro.pdf</a>
<br /><br />
<i>From the reply:</i>
<br /><br />
<blockquote>He simply endorsed what Peter James wrote, which is a reduction of 250 years at the time of the Third Intermediate Period (dynasties 21–24). The importance of this conclusion is not the length of time but that it strikes at the traditional chronology, in particular it destroys the so-called ‘Sothic Cycle’ which is the only ‘secure’ dating of Egyptian history that archaeologists can rely on.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
* <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenhotep_II">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenhotep_II</a>
<br /><br />
** <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merenre_Nemtyemsaf_II">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merenre_Nemtyemsaf_II</a>
<br /><br />
*** <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neferhotep_I">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neferhotep_I</a>Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-37122325383280172462023-12-20T13:57:00.000-08:002023-12-27T03:36:21.598-08:00Against a Late Date of the Exodus<br />
<b>Creation vs. Evolution:</b> <a href="https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2023/01/480-years-from-exodus-to-temple.html">480 Years From Exodus to Temple?</a> · <b>Φιλολoγικά / Philologica:</b> <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2023/12/against-late-date-of-exodus.html">Against a Late Date of the Exodus</a> · <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2023/12/a-reason-against-egyptian-records.html">A Reason Against Egyptian Records</a>
<br /><br />
Among Christian exegetes, the position is kind of this, those who argue for it:
<br /><br />
<ul><li> King Solomon built his temple in the 10th C.
<li> The 480 years are symbolic, with "40" for a generation, these being actually shorter in real chronology.</ul>
<br /><br />
The Jews seem to have a very different but converging motive.
<br /><br />
<ul><li> They take the 480 as literally that length, not a minimum actually overpassed, but 480 years and no longer, this is a shortening of 48 years of the chronology;
<li> They furthermore have a shortening of the so called "intertestamental period" (after the books <i>they</i> — and Protestants — count as canonical) which can be seen by noting that the current Jewish year is not 2023 + 4004 as Ussher got, but a different, lower number.</ul>
<br /><br />
That lower number is (2023 / 2024) the Jewish year of 5784 after Creation.
<br /><br />
The Masoretic reckoning of anno Mundi would in Ussher's count have Christ born 4003 after Creation. I e, creation is 4004 years.*
<br /><br />
2024 + 4003 = 6027 (Ussher's anno Mundi for next year)
<br />6027 - 5784 = 243 (shortening of intertestamental period)
<br />243 + 48 = 291 (add shortening by taking 480 as exact instead of minimal)
<br />1511 BC - 291 = 1220 BC.
<br /><br />
But the shortening is wrong, and it is also wrong to take the 480 years as exactly that rather than a minimum, therefore, an Exodus in 1220 BC is wrong, and an Exodus in 1511 BC is right. QED./HGL
<br /><br />
* Before Christ. I was tired./HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-50721062373795596912023-12-15T02:12:00.000-08:002023-12-15T03:00:36.035-08:00HRE and USA<br />
I just met the claim <i>again</i> that Germany as a unity was created by Bismarck and Hohenzollern monarchs in 1871.
<br /><br />
<blockquote>One such noteworthy name, or political entity, that laid claim to the land was the Holy Roman Empire (800-1806). The empire was not very organized or stable, as you can see by the hundreds of dukedoms, baronets, and states that made it up.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://travelerdoor.com/2022/07/06/mapped/">Traveler Door : 40+ Perspective-Changing And Unusual Maps That Portray The World In A New Way
<br /><i>By Giovanni DS July 6, 2022</i>
<br />https://travelerdoor.com/2022/07/06/mapped/</a>
<br /><br />
Don't get me wrong, the page as such has it's really nice points, like "Europe seen by Americans" involving a country named "Old Mexico" (hint at Mexico at a time being "New Spain") and so on (though it annoyed me there was a Hakenkreutz on the territory where Germany should be).
<br /><br />
I will not give the map they showed to illustrate the point, but rather another map which is a bit older and also involves a wikipedia licence:
<br /><br />
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC BY-SA 4.0 DEED
<br />https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/</a>
<br /><br />
<ul><li> You are free to:
<br /><br />
<ul><li> Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format for any purpose, even commercially.
<li> Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
<br /><br />
<li> The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.</ul>
<br /><br />
<li> Under the following terms:
<br /><br />
<ul><li> Attribution — You must give appropriate credit , provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made . You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
<li> ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.
<br /><br />
<li> No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.</ul></ul>
<br /><br />
I take this as meaning the map must be provided with a link to the original so they can apply it, not that my essay here is supposed to constitute any such "remix" ... so, here is the map, followed by the attribution:
<br /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Golden_Bull_of_1356.png" style="display: block; padding: 1em 0; text-align: center; "><img alt="" border="0" width="320" data-original-height="767" data-original-width="800" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Golden_Bull_of_1356.png"/></a></div>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#/media/File:Golden_Bull_of_1356.png">Map of the Holy Roman Empire in 1356, Original creation
<br /><i>Created: 5 June 2019, Cameron Pauley - Own work</i>
<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#/media/File:Golden_Bull_of_1356.png</a>
<br /><br />
Feel free to share and possibly modify the map as you see fit, if you share alike, that is, allow the public to share and modify as they see fit.
<br /><br />
However, do not apply your modifications <i>within</i> this essay of mine.
<br /><br />
Before uploading, I checked that the list of abbreviations, within three columns, had 49 abbreviations in the first column, also in the second presumably, and then one less in the third, equals 146 abbreviations. The bigger states are of course given unabbreviated, but are fewer. The Holy Roman Empire back then had perhaps 200 states.
<br /><br />
To put this into perspective, parts of these states are North Italian, Flemish, one of them is Provence, some are in what's now Czech Republic or Poland.
<br /><br />
It is perfectly true, this was not a nation state with one official language, that being German. Each state had its chancery, each chancery wrote its language, aligning or not with the language of other chanceries. Enghien or Edingen would more probably have used French or Flemish (the Medieval version of Dutch) than German, perhaps both. Provence, Monaco, Ventimilglia, Piedmont would pretty certainly have used some Occitan, probably Classic Provençal in all of these. Hamburg and Lüneburg and Brandenburg would have used Low German, not High German. North Germany only adopted High German through the Bible of Luther. Before which the Catholic Church had made 14 translations in High German <i>and 4 in Low German.</i> The North could have kept its original language, if they hadn't become Lutherans.
<br /><br />
<b>So, is having more than one language a problem?</b>
<br /><br />
To a certain way of thinking back in the 19th C. the answer was a very emphatic yes. A bit problematic for the Irish who by that time were really declining in the numbers of fluent native speakers of Gaelic, and it made Switzerland kind of an anomaly. The one language that was official all over the Holy Roman Empire since Ottonian times was the kind of Latin that Alcuin of York had been teaching in Tours in the even earlier Carolingian times, when France too was part of this Empire. Or this Empire too was part of France. Or ... I think you get the point. Other languages were however locally and regionally official, and after the Carolingian Empire got divided, and French was mostly spoken outside this Empire, the largest regional language within the Empire was High German. A bit like the largest language in Switzerland is German / Swiss German (by the way, Swiss German back then was certainly written by the chancery of Bishopric of Basel or County of Fribourg, or perhaps even the outlier from Austria where later you find the Urkantone—besides, High German from parts now not considered Swiss German may still have been closer to it than now. I am not sure when Vienna and Munich started writing Zeit instead of Zît, and the article on <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelhochdeutsche_Sprache">"Mittelhochdeutsche Sprache"</a> lists 1250–1350 (just before the Golden Bull) as Spätmittelhochdeutsch.
<br /><br />
I would argue, no, it is not a problem. The USA actually as a Union doesn't have English legally defined as the official language, or so I have heard. It's de facto used as official language by the union and by all states, but not exclusively by all states, there are either states or counties that have Spanish or French as second official language. The reasoning behind not recognising German Unity prior to 1871 due to HRE not having High German as the everywhere official status would preclude Medieval France from having been a unity as well. Who claims that France was founded in Francis I in 1539?
<br /><br />
<b>But what about the many states?</b>
<br /><br />
I think you may agree, the middle is the most state rich part. The Electorates of Trier and of Cologne are probably bigger than Washington DC. The medium size of a state might have been perhaps half the size of a state in New England, let's say half New Jersey, though admittedly, some of the smallest ones would be more like Counties than States.
<br /><br />
The multiplicity of states and counties, somehow, is not used to argue that the US is only a very loose confederacy. Arguing that Germany was founded in 1871 rather than in 843 (when Carolingian Empire was split into three and the parts now Germany would typically have been East Francia) or 962 (when the dignity of Emperor was demoted from a North Italian locality in Mid Francia / Lotharingia to East Francia) is like arguing that the US was founded by Abraham Lincoln in 1865 through Conquest of the South Confederacy, rather than in 1776 by George Washington by secession from the United Kingdom.
<br /><br />
<b>So, why the claim that Germany was only a latecomer among states?</b>
<br /><br />
We can dismiss the dissing of HRE as so much spin, as shown, and go to what I suppose are the real motives. There are two, nearly opposite, motives.
<br /><br />
<ul><li> the admirers of Bismarck held to 19th C. Nationalist and Revolutionary (partly Totalitarian) ideals of what a state is supposed to be;
<li> the victors in 1918 and 1945, through some annoyance at Germany (where at least in the 1945 case, Austria as a state had not contributed, having been eclipsed since 1938)</ul>
<br /><br />
There is however a real problem with the reunification of 1990. I think it can be subsumed in the name of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_de_Maizi%C3%A8re">Lothar de Maizière</a>, though he personally may not be a very problematic figure. As I left Austria at age 11 and a half, and hadn't resided in Germany since age 5, I am too unfamiliar with current trends in Germany to really know. The problem is that Ossis, having received the education in East Germany, came into citizenship and sometimes leadership in reunited Germany. Unavoidable if one wanted a reunification? Yes. But problematic? Also yes. I think the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens may have unduly profited from ideals and thoughts that before 1990 would have been promptly denounced as Commie views suddenly no longer being identified with the East Block. Because there was no such thing. When Dol Guldur was fallen, there were things that Saruman could do which he could not do before. Which allowed Sauron to rebuild Mordor. I am not on the side that Kirill Eskov's narrator voice purports to be on, whether he thought so really, or told so tongue in cheek, but very firmly on Tolkien's.
<br /><br />
But either way, the problem is not that Germany as such is a recent thing. If Germans have trouble discerning the due limits of state power, as the Wunderlich family may agree they have, on a collective level, it may actually be because they have listened to bad ideologues, after pretty much experience. Which means that other peoples with comparably long experience may also have troubles to discern such limits by also listening to bad ideologues. I consider a <i><b>big</b></i> country to the East has been listening to worse ones lately, and it may have had a stake in dissing HRE too.
<br /><br />
<ul><li> 1356, Berlin and Vienna (the latter city being by far more important) were part of a flourishing European Medieval culture, which, like Dante, considered freedom the highest gift God had given man (man as such, every man, including those that refuse the higher gift of redemption, and that redemption <i>not</i> being a redemption from freedom)
<li> 1356, Moscow was paying homage and tribute to the Khan of the Golden Horde, and Gregory Palamas was elucidating as part of hesychasm (I do not mind the prayer technique) the idea that every man needs to have a Starets, and that freedom, since the fall, means temptation and sin. I may have gotten him wrong, but the "Tale of the Russian pilgrim" seems to argue sth like that. On the Camino in 2004, I picked up the book, read some, concluded it was not for me, and left it at the next hostal de peregrinos.</ul>
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />Octave of the Immaculate Conception
<br />15.XII.2023
<br /><br />
<i>Octava Conceptionis Immaculatae beatae Mariae Virginis.</i>
<br /><br />
PS, it can be added that Germany in 843 arguably was less racist than US in 1776, certainly less racist than US (yes, including some North soldiers with a programme to liberate slaves and then send them to Africa), 1865. It has, except for a brief era when ruled by a man unduly impressed by a French Anthropologist, by English medical doctors and by US Margaret Sanger held sway./HGL
<br /><br />
PPS. 550 / 2 = 275. 225 * 2 = 450. 77 + 33 = 110. To get 100, use 77 + 23 or 73 + 27 instead. 3 X 3 X 3 = 27. And it's not racist to focus on sth you are traditionally good at. It may be racist to require all children to pass Mathematics, but teaching it correctly isn't./HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-17643290743699825052023-12-12T06:03:00.000-08:002023-12-12T06:03:17.233-08:00White People and Black Slavery: a Very Brief Overview<br />
The ethnicity and the treatment of the other ethnicity have a somewhat unusual relation.
<br /><br />
First, the European culture of the Caucasian ethnicity, as some have liked to call it, abolished slavery at least twice.
<br /><br />
<ul><li> White people, from Queen St. Bathilde to the mayor or whatever of Ragusa, came to socities with white slaves, and ended slavery in them, all over the Middle Ages.
<li> Wilberforce and Pope Gregory XVI were huge fans of abolishing Black Slavery, and in some cases this had to do with trying to end Arabs and Blacks of Africa targetting white people as slaves, and trying to be consistent (1830 Algiers was taken, after having tried to lay claim to France over a war debt incurred by a Régime considered as criminal by the then French régime, and part of the French war case was accusing Algiers of slave hunt).</ul>
<br /><br />
Between these two major events, there was however a somewhat discordant event, or a very discordant event. It was White people on the other side of the Atlantic holding Black slaves.
<br /><br />
Note, it ended through mainly white men feeling there was something off about slavery. But before that, it had come about by reconciling irreconcilable things.
<br /><br />
What were these irreconcilable things?
<br /><br />
<ul><li> White men <i>cannot be slaves,</i> because Queen St. Bathilde said so (she did not specify this applied only to white people, but she pronounced this in a country where the inhabitants were in fact white) because of Christian principle.
<li> Black men <i>can be slaves,</i> because we bought them (in Cameroon, for instance), <i>and</i> in retaliation for Africans targetting Europeans.</ul>
<br /><br />
The upshot (which no one had really planned) was an unprecedented division between White and Black into "non-enslavables" and "enslavables" (and usually also slaves).
<br /><br />
Racism came from this unfortunate event, which started in the times which in places were already Renaissance, but which did not quite affect Europeans all that much prior to the Enlightenment.
<br /><br />
Racism was not ended by Enlightenment philosophers, it was ended by devout Christians. Wilberforce, an Evangelical, who had one son oppose Huxley, and who had two other sons convert to Catholicism. King Charles X of France. Pope Gregory XVI whose rule began the year after Charles X's ended, and then some more, like Pierre Savorgnan de Brazza or the Emperor of Brazil, Peter II. None of these was pureblooded from the Atlantic and Colonial powers, apart from Wilberforce. King Charles X had a grandmother from Poland and one from Austria. Gregory XVI was from Italy. Pierre Savorgnan de Brazza was from Italy. Peter II of Brazil had a mother from Austria.
<br /><br />
Wilberforce, on the other hand, did not hail from countries where slavery had already ended long ago, and never began again, he relied only on the Bible. And the Bible led himself to Abolitionism, and two of his sons to Catholicism, and another one of his sons to combat Evolutionism.
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />Our Lady of Guadalupe
<br />12.XII.2023Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-2789217376852890452023-12-10T10:20:00.000-08:002023-12-23T08:00:33.740-08:00Pagan Setting of Beowulf?<br />
Damien Mackey quoted Josh Skinner as saying:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>The Biblical allusions found throughout Beowulf have made many see the poem as awork of Christian art. The sheer volume of connections tempt many to look past the overwhelmingly pagan setting of the poem and argue for a Christian reading of the work.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
I don't know exactly what the author of the quote means by "pagan setting" ... indeed, the protagonists are non-Christians and partly idolaters, it is stated early on that "they knew not their maker" ... that's it.
<br /><br />
It is not a Christian poem about Christians.
<br /><br />
But still less is it a Pagan poem about Pagans.
<br /><br />
It is in fact (as Tolkien remarked) a Christian poem about Pagans.
<br /><br />
Beowulf may have similarities to King David (though he did not die in a foolhardy attack bungled in ways calculated to increase his own glory, and others had to pay while he died). But his men on a certain occasion had a similarity of situation and a dissimilarity of attitude to the disciples of Christ.
<br /><br />
Beowulf is down for an hour under the "mere" = lake? and probably both he and Grendel's mother were breathing in an air pocket accessible only via under the water. The Danes find Beowulf's men there, and basically ask "don't you realise he must be dead by now?" and the reply was:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Geats know how to wait, when wan is hope.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
Wan being an adjective like the participle waned. While the moon is going from full to new, it is referred to as waning, but wan is like when it is already invisible.
<br /><br />
I am very certain that some young clerk or monk in the audience said to himself "these men shall be Christians" ... he waited for a sign. Yes, Sigmund (sic!) the dragonkiller was mentioned, and even more, Beowulf himself dies as a dragonkiller. You see, the clerk was named for a dragon killer. His name was Sigfrid.
<br /><br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigfrid_of_Sweden"><i>St. Sigfrid of Wexio, pray for us!</i>
<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigfrid_of_Sweden</a>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4xj%C3%B6">Wexio</a> is a bit further inland than the land of the Geats, that being the area around Gothenburg, North and South. And as we speak of Beowulf, and as he was of superhuman strength (possibly much higher percentage of Neanderthal than the usual 3 %), how come Damien Mackey didn't make the connexion to Samson?
<br /><br />
Happy Advent Season from Paris!/HGL
<br /><br />
Credits: <a href="https://www.academia.edu/110856033/Beowulf_like_King_David_and_Jesus_Christ">Beowulf like King David and Jesus Christ
<br /><i>Damien Mackey</i>
<br />https://www.academia.edu/110856033/Beowulf_like_King_David_and_Jesus_Christ</a>Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-52132799809798986862023-12-02T08:43:00.000-08:002023-12-03T05:02:28.516-08:00Barbara von Cilli and / und 134 Daughters / Töchter<br />
Age at first marriage / Alter bei der ersten Heirat.
<br /><br />
I <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_of_Cilli">Barbara of Cilli</a> or Barbara of Celje (Hungarian: Cillei Borbála, German: Barbara von Cilli, Slovenian and Croatian: Barbara Celjska, 1392 – 11 July 1451), was the Holy Roman Empress and Queen of Hungary and Bohemia by marriage to Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund. She was actively involved in politics and economy of her times, independently administering large feudal fiefdoms and taxes, and was instrumental in creating the famous royal Order of the Dragon. She served as the regent of Hungarian kingdom in the absence of her husband four times: in 1412, 1414, 1416, and 1418.
<br /><br />
<blockquote><b>Biography</b>
<br /><br />
Barbara was born in Celje, in the Duchy of Styria (today Slovenia), as the daughter and youngest child of Herman II, Count of Celje, and Countess Anna of Schaunberg.
<br /><br />
Barbara was engaged in 1405 to Sigismund of Bohemia, King of Hungary, a younger son of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor. The marriage likely took place in December 1405.
<br /><br />
II Elizabeth of Luxembourg (Hungarian: Luxemburgi Erzsébet; 7 October 1409 – 19 December 1442) was queen consort of Hungary, queen consort of Germany and Bohemia.
<br />In 1422 Albert married Elisabeth of Luxemburg, the daughter and heiress of the King Sigismund of Hungary (later also Holy Roman Emperor and King of Bohemia), and his second wife, the Slovenian noblewoman Barbara of Celje.
<br /><br />
III a Anne of Bohemia and Austria (12 April 1432 – 13 November 1462) was a Duchess of Luxembourg in her own right and, as a consort, Landgravine of Thuringia and of Saxony.
<br />On 2 June 1446 the young Anne was married to William "the Brave" of Saxony (1425–82), Landgrave of Thuringia, a younger son of Frederick I "the Warlike" of Saxony.
<br /><br />
IV a Margaret of Thuringia (1449 – 13 July 1501), who married John II, Elector of Brandenburg, and whose direct main heirs have been Electors of Brandenburg, then Kings of Prussia, and then German Emperors.
<br />On 15 August 1476, in Berlin, she married John Cicero, Elector of Brandenburg.
<br /><br />
V a Anna (27 August 1487, Berlin–3 May 1514, Kiel), married 10 April 1502 to the future King Frederick I of Denmark (she was never queen consort, since she died before her husband's accession).
<br /><br />
VI a Dorothea of Denmark (1 August 1504 – 11 April 1547), was a Duchess of Prussia by marriage to Duke Albert, Duke of Prussia. She was the daughter of King Frederick I of Denmark and Anna of Brandenburg.
<br />In 1525, she received a proposal from the newly made Duke of Prussia. The marriage was arranged by her father's German chancellor Wolfgang von Utenhof. The wedding was conducted 12 February 1526 and Dorothea arrived with a large entourage in Königsberg in June.
<br /><br />
VII a Anna Sophia (11 June 1527 – 6 February 1591), married John Albert I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Güstrow.
<br />She married on 24 February 1555 in Wismar to Duke John Albert I of Mecklenburg (1525-1576). EOL
<br /><br />
V b Ursula (17 October 1488–18 September 1510, Güstrow), married 16 February 1507 to Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg.
<br /><br />
VI b Sophia of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1508–1541), married Ernest I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg
<br />Ernest married Sophia, daughter of Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg and Ursula of Brandenburg, on 2 June 1528 in Schwerin.
<br /><br />
VII b Margarete (1534–1596), ⚭ 1559 Graf Johann von Mansfeld-Hinterort
<br /><br />
VII c Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (* 1539; † 3. September 1586 in Detmold) war eine Tochter des Herzogs Ernst I. von Braunschweig-Lüneburg und dessen Frau Sophie von Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Als Ehefrau Ottos IV. wurde sie Gräfin von Schaumburg.
<br />Am 5. Juni 1558 heiratete sie in Celle Otto IV. von Schaumburg, dessen erste Frau Maria von Pommern-Stettin 1554 gestorben war.
<br /><br />
VIII a Maria (1559–1616, verheiratet mit Jobst von Limburg-Styrum)
<br />Jobst heiratete am 2. März 1591 in Detmold Gräfin Maria von Schauenburg und Holstein-Pinneberg (* 14. Oktober 1559; † 3. Oktoberjul. / 13. Oktober 1616greg. auf Kasteel de Wildenborch), Erbin der Herrschaft Gemen und Tochter von Otto IV. von Holstein-Schaumburg und Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg,
<br /><br />
IX a Anna Sophia (* 21. März 1602 auf Kasteel de Wildenborch; † 9. September 1669 ebenda), Stiftsdame in Essen und Pröpstin in Rellinghausen
<br />⚭ 1623 Johann von Morrien zu Nordkirchen (* 2. Dezember 1597; † 30. März 1628)
<br />⚭ 1630 Johann Melchior von Dombroick (* um 1600; † 1658)
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VIII b Elisabeth (1566–1638, verheiratet mit Simon zur Lippe)
<br />Simon VI. war seit 1578 mit Armgard von Rietberg († 13. Juli 1584) verheiratet. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. 1585 ging er eine weitere Ehe mit der Gräfin Elisabeth zu Holstein-Schaumburg ein, einer Tochter Ottos IV., Graf von Schaumburg und Holstein-Pinneberg, und Elisabeth Ursulas von Braunschweig-Lüneburg.
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IX b Elisabeth (1592–1646) ⚭ 1612 Graf Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg
<br />Elisabeth zur Lippe (* 9. Juli 1592; † 19. Juni 1646) war gewählte Äbtissin im Stift Freckenhorst. Wegen der widrigen Verhältnisse übte sie ihr Amt aber nicht aus. Ab 1612 wurde sie durch Heirat zur Gräfin von Holstein-Schaumburg.
<br />Am 12. September 1612 heiratete Elisabeth auf Schloss Brake den Grafen Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg (1577–1616) aus der Gemener Line. EOL
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IX c Ursula (1598–1638) ⚭ 1617 Graf Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar
<br />Ursula zur Lippe (* 15. Februar 1598 auf Schloss Brake in Lemgo; † 27. Juli 1638 in Hadamar) war durch Heirat Gräfin von Nassau-Hadamar.
<br />Am 26. August 1617 heiratete sie in Detmold den Grafen Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar, mit dem sie 21 Jahre lang verheiratet war.
<br /><br />
X a Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar (* 17. Januar 1619 in Dillenburg; † 2. März 1647 in Harzgerode) war Gemahlin von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode und damit Fürstin von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode.
<br />Die Hochzeit erfolgte am 10. August 1642 in Bückeburg.
<br /><br />
XI a Elisabeth Charlotte von Anhalt-Harzgerode (* 11. Februar 1647 in Harzgerode; † 20. Januar 1723 in Schloss Østerholm auf Alsen) war durch Heirat zunächst Fürstin von Anhalt-Köthen und dann Herzogin von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.
<br />Sie war die Tochter von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Harzgerode und dessen erster Frau Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar. Sie war zunächst seit 1663 verheiratet mit Wilhelm Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen, wurde 1665 Witwe und heiratete 1666 August von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.
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XII a Dorothea Johanna (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727) ⚭ Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg (1670–1724)
<br />[Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg] verheiratete sich am 13. Januar 1699 in Harzgerode mir Prinzessin Dorothea Johanna von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727), einer Tochter von Herzog August EOL
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X b Sophia Magdalena (1622–1658), ⚭ Fürst Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg (1594–1662)
<br />Sofie Magdalena von Nassau-Dillenburg (* 6. Februar 1622 in Hadamar; † 28. Juni 1658 in Dillenburg) war durch Heirat Fürstin von Nassau-Dillenburg.
<br />1656 heiratete sie ihren Cousin, den 1652 gefürsteten Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg. Der Ehe, des Fürsten dritter,[1] entstammten die Kinder August (1657–1680), Karl (1658–1659) und Ludwig (1658–1658).[2] Sie starb kurz nach der Geburt der Zwillinge Karl und Ludwig. EOL
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IX d Sophie (1599–1653) ⚭ 1626 Fürst Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen
<br />Am 8. September 1625 starb Amoena Amalia im Alter von 39 Jahren. Nach Ablauf des obligaten Trauerjahres heiratete Fürst Ludwig am 12. September 1626 Sophie, Tochter von Graf Simon VI. zur Lippe. Mit ihr hatte er ebenfalls einen Sohn, Fürst Wilhelm Ludwig. EOL
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IV b Katharina of Thuringia (1453 – 10 July 1534), who married Duke Henry II of Münsterberg and who has surviving descendants, mainly among Bohemian high nobility.
<br />In 1471, Henry the Younger married Catherine, the daughter of William III, Landgrave of Thuringia.
<br /><br />
V c Henry had a daughter Anna (1471–1517), who married in 1493 with Henry IV of Neuhaus.
<br />Henry's first marriage was with Elizabeth of Sternberg; his second wife was Agnes of Cimburg (d. 1485). His third marriage was with Magdalena of Gleichen, and after her death in 1492, he married Anna of Poděbrady, the daughter of Duke Henry the Younger Münsterberg-Oels
<br /><br />
VI c Anna († 1570), verheiratet in erster Ehe mit Hynek Boček von Kunstadt († 1518); in zweiter Ehe mit Ladislav von Sternberg auf Bechyně († 1521) und in dritter Ehe mit Heinrich VII. von Rosenberg (1496–1526) EOL
<br /><br />
III b Elizabeth of Austria (German: Elisabeth von Habsburg; Polish: Elżbieta Rakuszanka; Lithuanian: Elžbieta Habsburgaitė; c. 1436 – 30 August 1505) was Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania as the wife of King Casimir IV of Poland.
<br />In August 1452, preparing for the Thirteen Years' War (1454–66) with the Teutonic Knights, the Poles sent an embassy to Vienna to once again negotiate marriage between Elisabeth and now-king Casimir IV of Poland.[13] Ulrich II, Count of Celje, who now had custody of Elisabeth, received the proposal favorably and sent two of his men to Poland. The formal wedding agreement was reached in August 1453 in Wrocław in the presence of Polish and Austrian nobles.
<br />Elisabeth arrived to Poland in February 1454 with a retinue of nine hundred riders.[14] Reportedly, Casimir was informed that Elisabeth was not an attractive lady and was reconsidering the marriage, but bowed to the pressure of his court.[19] On February 9, Elisabeth arrived at Kraków and was met by Casimir and his mother Sophia of Halshany. The next day, 18-year-old Elisabeth married 27-year-old Casimir and was crowned Queen of Poland. [Or 17 year old, if born later in 1436 than early February]
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IV c Hedwig Jagiellon (Polish: Jadwiga Jagiellonka, Lithuanian: Jadvyga Jogailaitė, German: Hedwig Jagiellonica; 21 September 1457 – 18 February 1502), baptized as "Hedwigis", was a Polish princess and member of the Jagiellonian dynasty, as well as Duchess of Bavaria by marriage.
<br />Matthias Corvinus asked the hand of Hedwig again in July 1471 and in September 1473 until finally, a definitive refusal was made by Queen Elizabeth. At the beginning of 1473, two counselors sent by Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria-Munich arrived in Poland with a marriage proposal; however, Casimir IV refused the offer because at that time, he was already negotiating a marriage between his eldest daughter and George, son and heir of Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut.
<br />Hedwig arrived with her family in Poznań, where on 10 October 1475, she said goodbye to them. With a large retinue of approximately 1,200 knights, she arrived in Wittenberg on 23 October. She was accompanied, among others, by Anna, widow of Bolesław II, Duke of Cieszyn.
<br />On 14 November 1475, Hedwig and her retinue finally arrived in Landshut, an event which inspired the famous medieval pageant Landshut Wedding. The wedding ceremony took place that day at St. Martin's Church, with the service being officiated by Bernhard von Rohr, Archbishop of Salzburg.
<br /><br />
V d Elisabeth of Bavaria-Landshut (1478 – 15 September 1504), married on 10 February 1499 to Rupert, Count Palatine of the Rhine. EOL 27)
<br /><br />
IV d Sophia (6 May 1464 – 5 October 1512), married on 14 February 1479 to Frederick I, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach. ///
<br /><br />
V e Sophia of Brandenburg-Ansbach (10 March 1485 – 24 May 1537), married on 14 November 1518 to Duke Frederick II of Legnica.
<br /><br />
VI d Sophie (1525–1546)
<br />married in 1545 Elector John George of Brandenburg (1525-1598) EOL 5)
<br /><br />
V f Anna of Brandenburg-Ansbach (5 May 1487 – 7 February 1539), married on 1 December 1518 to Duke Wenceslaus II of Cieszyn. EOL
<br /><br />
V g Elisabeth of Brandenburg-Ansbach (25 March 1494 – 31 May 1518), married on 29 September 1510 to Margrave Ernest of Baden-Durlach. 3)
<br /><br />
VI e Anna (April 1512 – after 1579) married on 11 February 1537 to Count Charles I of Hohenzollern (1516 – 8 March 1576) EOL
<br /><br />
VI f Amalie (February 1513; died 1594) married in 1561 to Count Frederick II of Löwenstein (22 August 1528 – 5 June 1569) EOL
<br /><br />
VI g Maria Jacobea (October 1514; died: 1592) married in February 1577 to Count Wolfgang II of Barby (11 December 1531 – 23 March 1615) EOL
<br /><br />
VI h Marie Cleopha (September 1515 – 28 April 1580) married in 1548 to Count William of Schultz (died circa 1566) EOL
<br /><br />
VI i Elizabeth (20 May 1516; died: 9 May 1568), married:
<br />in 1533 to Count Gabriel von Salamanca-Ortenburg (died: December 1539) EOL
<br />on 30 July 1543 to Count Conrad II of Castell (10 July 1519 – 8 July 1577)
<br /><br />
V h Barbara of Brandenburg-Ansbach (24 September 1495 – 23 September 1552), married on 26 July 1528 to Landgrave George III of Leuchtenberg.
<br /><br />
VI j Elisabeth (1537/8-1579)
<br />married in 1559 to Count John VI of Nassau-Dillenburg (1536-1606)
<br /><br />
VII d Elisabeth (1564-1611), married in 1583 with Philip IV, Count of Nassau-Weilburg and in 1603 with Wolfgang Ernst I of Isenburg-Büdingen-Birstein, EOL
<br /><br />
VII e Maria (1568-1625), married John Louis I of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein,
<br />Maria married John Louis I, Count of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein in 1588
<br /><br />
VIII c Margaretha (1589-1660), married in 1606 to Adolph of Bentheim
<br /><br />
VIII d Anna Catharina (1590-1622), married in 1607 to Count Simon VII "the Pious" of Lippe
<br /><br />
IX e Mary Elizabeth (1611-1667) married in 1649 to Count Christian Frederick of Mansfeld-Hinterort (1615-1666)
<br /><br />
IX f Anna Catherine (1612-1659) married in Prince Frederick von Anhalt-Harzgerode (1613-1670)
<br />In Bückeburg on 10 August 1642 Frederick married Johanna Elisabeth (b. Dillenburg, 7 January 1619 – d. Harzgerode, 2 March 1647), daughter of John Louis, Prince of Nassau-Hadamar.
<br /><br />
X c Elisabeth Charlotte (b. Harzgerode, 11 February 1647 – d. Osterholm, 20 January 1723), married on 25 August 1663 to William Louis, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen, then for a second time on 6 October 1666 to Augustus, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg.
<br /><br />
XI b Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), married Prince William II of Nassau-Dillenburg (1670-1724)
<br />He married on 13 January 1699 in Harzgerode to Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), the daughter of Duke Augustus of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg. EOL
<br /><br />
IV e Anna (12 March 1476 – 12 August 1503), married on 2 February 1491 to Bogislaw X, Duke of Pomerania
<br /><br />
V i Anna of Pomerania (1492 – 25 April 1550), married on 9 June 1516 to Duke George I of Brieg. EOL
<br /><br />
V j Sophie of Pomerania (1498 – 13 May 1568), married on 9 October 1518 to Frederick, Duke of Holstein-Schleswig, who became King Frederick I of Denmark in 1523.
<br /><br />
VI k Elizabeth (14 October 1524 – 15 October 1586), married:
<br />on 26 August 1543 to Duke Magnus III of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
<br />on 14 February 1556 to Ulrich, Duke of Mecklenburg
<br /><br />
VII f Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (Sophia; 4 September 1557 – 14 October 1631) was Queen of Denmark and Norway by marriage to Frederick II of Denmark. She was the mother of King Christian IV of Denmark and Anne of Denmark. She was Regent of Schleswig-Holstein from 1590 to 1594.[1]
<br />At the age of fourteen Sophie, on 20 July 1572, married Frederick II of Denmark in Copenhagen; he was thirty-eight. She was crowned the following day.[17]
<br /><br />
VIII e Elisabeth of Denmark (25 August 1573 – 19 July 1625) was duchess consort of Brunswick-Lüneburg as married to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg. She was regent of the Duchy of Brunswick-Lüneburg in place of her incapacitated son Frederick Ulrich, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg in 1616–1622.
<br />She was married on 19 April 1590 at Kronborg Castle to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg.
<br /><br />
IX g Sophia Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (20 February 1592 – 23 January 1642), married Ernest Casimir, Prince of Nassau-Dietz
<br />On 8 June 1607, Sophie Hedwig married Count Ernest Casimir I of Nassau-Dietz (1573–1632). EOL
<br /><br />
IX h Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (23 June 1593 – 25 March 1650), married Augustus, Duke of Saxony, and John Philip, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg
<br />Elisabeth married first on 1 January 1612 in Dresden, to Duke August of Saxony (1589–1615), the administrator of the diocese of Naumburg. August suddenly died at the age of 26, after only three years of marriage.
<br />From her second marriage, Elisabeth had only one surviving daughter
<br /><br />
X d Elisabeth Sophie of Saxe-Altenburg (10 October 1619 – 20 December 1680), was a princess of Saxe-Altenburg and, by marriage, duchess of Saxe-Gotha.
<br />In Altenburg on 24 October 1636, Elisabeth Sophie married her kinsman Ernst I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha. As a dowry, she received 20,000 guilders, who were pledged by the town of Roßla. As Widow's seat, the bride obtained the towns of Kapellendorf and Berka, with the latter called Gartenhaus in Weimar.
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XI c Elisabeth Dorothea (b. Coburg, 8 January 1640 – d. Butzbach, 24 August 1709), married on 5 December 1666 to Louis VI, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.
<br /><br />
XII b Sophie Luise (1670–1758)
<br />⚭ 1688 Fürst Albrecht Ernst II. von Oettingen-Oettingen (1669–1731)
<br /><br />
XIII a Die einzige Tochter Elisabeth Friederike (1691–1758) heiratete 1713 Karl Ludwig Graf zu Hohenlohe-Neuenstein-Gleichen (Hohenlohe-Weikersheim; 1674–1756), 1726–1729 Direktor des Fränkischen Reichsgrafenkollegiums,[4] Sohn des Grafen Johann Friedrich von Hohenlohe, der ein Enkel des Wolfgang II. von Hohenlohe war, und der Luise Amöne, einer Tochter des Herzogs Friedrich von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.[5] EOL
<br /><br />
XII c Elisabeth Dorothea (1676–1721)
<br />⚭ 1700 Landgraf Friedrich III. Jakob von Hessen-Homburg (1673–1746) EOL
<br /><br />
IX i Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 February 1595 – 26 June 1650), married Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania
<br />Hedwig married on 7 February 1619 in Wolfenbüttel to Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania (1589–1622), Bishop of Cammin. The wedding feast was very costly; it was attended by 16 ruling princes. The marriage lasted only three years and remained childless. EOL
<br /><br />
IX j Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (8 July 1596 – 1 September 1643), married Christian William of Brandenburg, son of Joachim III Frederick, Elector of Brandenburg
<br />His first wedding took place on 1 January 1615 in Wolfenbüttel, where he married Dorothea (1596-1643), a daughter of the Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel.
<br /><br />
X e Sophie Elisabeth of Brandenburg (1 February 1616 at Moritzburg Castle in Halle – 16 March 1650 at Altenburg Castle) was a Princess of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage Duchess of Saxe-Altenburg.
<br />She married on 18 September 1638 in Altenburg to Duke Frederick William II of Saxe-Altenburg (1603-1669). The marriage was described as a happy one; however, it remained childless. EOL
<br /><br />
IX k Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 May 1612 – 17 February 1673), married George Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg
<br />George Louis married on 19 February 1638 in Coppenbrügge to Princess Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1612–1673),[2] the daughter of Henry Julius, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel and Elizabeth of Denmark
<br /><br />
X f Elisabeth Charlotte (1643–1686), married to Count Ferdinand Gobert von Aspremont-Lynden
<br />In 1680, Ferdinand Gobert was firstly married Princess Charlotte von Nassau-Dillenburg (1643–1686), daughter of George Louis, Prince of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL
<br /><br />
VIII f Anne of Denmark (Danish: Anna; 12 December 1574 – 2 March 1619) was the wife of King James VI and I; as such, she was Queen of Scotland from their marriage on 20 August 1589 and Queen of England and Ireland from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until her death in 1619.[1]
<br /><br />
IX l Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia (19 August 1596 – 13 February 1662). Married 1613, Frederick V, Elector Palatine. Died aged 65.
<br />Elizabeth was born at Dunfermline Palace, Fife, on 19 August 1596 at 2 o'clock in the morning.
<br />The wedding took place on 14 February 1613 at the royal chapel at the Palace of Whitehall and was a grand occasion that saw more royalty than ever visit the court of England.
<br /><br />
X g Henriette Marie of the Palatinate (7 July 1626 – 18 September 1651); married Prince Sigismund Rákóczi, brother of George II Rákóczi, Prince of Transylvania, on 16 June 1651 EOL
<br /><br />
X h Sophia, Electress of Hanover (14 October 1630 – 8 June 1714); married Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover, had issue, including King George I of Great Britain. Many other royal families are Sophia's, and therefore, Elizabeth's, descendants. Sophia came close to ascending to the British throne, but died two months before Queen Anne.
<br />On 30 September 1658, she married Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg, at Heidelberg, who in 1692 became the first Elector of Hanover.
<br /><br />
XI d Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (30 October 1668 – 1 February 1705) was the first Queen consort in Prussia as wife of King Frederick I. She was the only daughter of Elector Ernest Augustus of Hanover and his wife Sophia of the Palatinate. Her eldest brother, George Louis, succeeded to the British throne in 1714 as King George I.
<br />By marrying Frederick on 8 October 1684, she became Electress of Brandenburg in 1688, and after the elevation of Brandenburg-Prussia to a kingdom in 1701, she became the first Queen in Prussia. EOL
<br /><br />
VIII g Princess Augusta of Denmark (8 April 1580 – 5 February 1639) was the Duchess of Holstein-Gottorp as the wife of Duke John Adolf. She was the third daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophia of Mecklenburg-Güstrow. She was politically influential during the reign of her son, Duke Frederick III.
<br />She was married on 30 August 1596 in Copenhagen to her parents' cousin Duke John Adolf of Holstein-Gottorp (1575–1616) and had eight children.
<br /><br />
IX m Elisabeth Sofie (12 October 1599 – 25 November 1627), married on 5 March 1621 to Duke Augustus of Saxe-Lauenburg.
<br /><br />
X i Anna Elisabeth (23 August 1624 – 27 May 1688, Philippseck Castle in today's Butzbach), married on 2 April 1665 in Lübeck, divorced in 1672, William Christoph, Landgrave of Hesse-Homburg EOL
<br /><br />
X j Sibylle Hedwig (30 July 1625 – 1 August 1703, Ratzeburg), married in 1654 her half-cousin Francis Erdmann, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg
<br /><br />
IX n Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682), married in 1633 to Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön, son of John II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg.
<br />Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682) was a German noblewoman from the House of (Schleswig-)Holstein-Gottorp, a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg. She became the first Duchess of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön[1] as the wife of Duke Joachim Ernest (1595–1671).
<br />In 1633, she married Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.
<br /><br />
X k Duchess Agnes Hedwig of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (29 September 1640 – 20 November 1698), who married Christian, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg and had issue
<br /><br />
X l Duchess Sophia Eleonora of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (30 July 1644 – 22 January 1689), who married Wolfgang Julius, Count of Hohenlohe-Neuenstein and had no issue
<br />He married twice. On 25 August 1666 he married Sophie Eleanor of Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1 August 1644, Plön – 22 January 1689, Neuenstein), daughter of Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1622–1671). EOL
<br /><br />
IX o Hedwig (23 December 1603 – 22 March 1657), married on 15 July 1620 to Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach.
<br /><br />
X m Augusta Sophie (22 November 1624 – 30 April 1682), married Václav Eusebius František, Prince of Lobkowicz
<br />His second marriage was on 6 February 1653 with Auguste Sophie von Pfalz-Sulzbach (1624–1682), daughter of Duke Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach. EOL
<br /><br />
VIII h Princess Hedwig of Denmark (5 August 1581 – 26 November 1641) was the youngest daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow, and Electress of Saxony from 1602 to 1611 as the wife of Christian II. The marriage was childless, and her husband was succeeded by his brother John George. After Christian's death in 1611, the Dowager Electress Hedwig held a powerful position in Saxony.
<br />She was married on 12 September 1602 to Christian II, Elector of Saxony, her first cousin once removed, in Dresden. EOL
<br /><br />
VI l Dorothea (1528 – 11 November 1575), married on 27 October 1573 to Duke Christof of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL
<br /><br />
IV f Barbara (15 July 1478 – 15 February 1534), married on 21 November 1496 to George, Duke of Saxony
<br /><br />
<blockquote>+ her sister:
<br />IV g Elizabeth (13 November 1482 – 16 February 1517), married on 25 November 1515 to Frederick II, Duke of Legnica EOL </blockquote>
<br /><br />
V k Christine of Saxony (25 December 1505 – 15 April 1549); married on 11 December 1523 to Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.
<br /><br />
VI m Agnes (31 May 1527 – 4 November 1555), married:
<br />in Marburg on 9 January 1541 to Maurice, Elector of Saxony;
<br />in Weimar on 26 May 1555 to John Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha.
<br /><br />
VII g Anna of Saxony (23 December 1544 – 18 December 1577) was the heiress of Maurice, Elector of Saxony, and Agnes, eldest daughter of Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.
<br />On 2 June 1561 the marriage contract was signed in Torgau. Anna's dowry would be the large sum of 100,000 thalers. The wedding took place on 24 August 1561 in Leipzig. On 1 September 1561 William of Orange, along with his young wife, relocated to the Netherlands.
<br /><br />
VIII i Anna (Breda, 5 November 1563 – Franeker, 13 June 1588), married on 25 November 1587 to William Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL
<br /><br />
VIII j Emilia (Köln, 10 April 1569 – Geneva, 6 March 1629), married on 7 November 1597 to Manuel of Portugal.
<br /><br />
IX p Maria Belgica of Portugal (born before 12 October 1598[2] – 28 July 1647), married in June 1629 to Colonel Theodor Croll (died 1640 in Venice [murdered]), Quartermaster general of Duke Odoardo Farnese, Duke of Parma.
<br /><br />
X n Emilia Catharina Croll, married Claude d'Amond in 1653 and had a daughter, Juliana Catharina.
<br />X o Anna Rosine Croll, married Jean des Vignes, head of the court of Genoiller in 1653. They had two sons.
<br />X p Susanne Sidonia Croll, married 1) Jean François Badel and 2) Vincent Ardin. She had children from both marriages.
<br /><br />
IX Mauritia Eleonora of Portugal (born before 10 May 1609[2] – 25 June 1674), married to Count George Frederick of Nassau-Siegen on 4 June 1647 in The Hague, no children. EOL
<br /><br />
VI n Anna (26 October 1529 – 10 July 1591), married on 24 February 1544 to Wolfgang, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken.
<br /><br />
VII h Barbara (1559–1618)
<br />married in 1591 Count Gottfried of Oettingen-Oettingen (1554–1622) EOL
<br /><br />
VII i Maria Elisabeth (1561–1629)
<br />married in 1585 Count Emich XII of Leiningen-Dagsburg-Hardenburg (1562–1607)
<br /><br />
VI o Barbara (8 April 1536 – 8 June 1597), married:
<br />in Reichenweier on 10 September 1555 to Duke George I of Württemberg-Mömpelgard;
<br />in Kassel on 11 November 1568 to Count Daniel of Waldeck. EOL
<br /><br />
VI p Elisabeth (13 February 1539 – 14 March 1582), married on 8 July 1560 to Louis VI, Elector Palatine.
<br /><br />
VII j Anna Marie (1561–1589), married Charles IX of Sweden
<br />Maria of the Palatinate (24 July 1561 – 29 July 1589), also known as Anna Maria, was a Swedish princess and Duchess of Södermanland by marriage, the first spouse of the future King Charles IX of Sweden. She died before he became king.
<br />The wedding took place in Heidelberg 11 May 1579. Afterwards, she followed him to Sweden, where they resided in his Duchy in Södermanland. They left Germany in July, and in September 1579, Maria received the oath of loyalty from the subjects in her dower lands Gripsholm, Tynnelsö and Rävsnäs estates, Strängnäs city with the parishes Åkers, Selebo and Daga as well as Överenhörna and Ytterenhörna.
<br /><br />
VII k Catherine of Sweden (Swedish: Katarina; 10 November 1584 – 13 December 1638) was a Swedish princess and a Countess Palatine of Zweibrücken as the consort of her second cousin John Casimir of Palatinate-Zweibrücken. <br />She is known as the periodical foster-mother of Queen Christina of Sweden and the mother of Charles X of Sweden.
<br />The marriage took place on 11 June 1615 in Stockholm.
<br /><br />
VIII k Christina Magdalena (27 May 1616 - 14 August 1662); married Frederick VI, Margrave of Baden-Durlach. King Adolf Frederick of Sweden was her great-grandson.
<br />The wedding, held in Stockholm, was postponed until 30 November 1642 after a fire broke out at the ball before their designated wedding date on 26 November.
<br /><br />
IX q Christine (1645–1705)
<br />∞ 1. 1665 Albert II, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1620–1667)
<br />∞ 2. 1681 Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646–1691)
<br />Christine von Baden-Durlach (* 22. April 1645; † 21. Dezember 1705) war durch Heirat Markgräfin von Ansbach sowie später Herzogin von Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg.
<br />Seine dritte Ehe schloss er am 6. August 1665 in Durlach mit Christine (1645–1705), Tochter des Markgrafen Friedrich VI. von Baden-Durlach. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. EOL
<br /><br />
IX r Johanna Elizabeth of Baden-Durlach (born: 6 November 1651; died: 28 September 1680), married on 26 January 1673 the Margrave John Frederick of Brandenburg-Ansbach (born: 4 October 1654; died: 22 March 1686) (→ Ancestors of the Swedish kings of the House of Bernadotte, by Charles XV of Sweden's and Oscar II's mother, Josephine of Leuchtenberg, as was their daughter's daughter was her granddaughter)
<br /><br />
X q Margravine Dorothea Friederike of Brandenburg-Ansbach (12 August 1676 – 13 March 1731) married Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg and had issue, including Charlotte of Hanau, wife of Louis VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.
<br />On 20 (or 30) August 1699, Dorothea Friederike married Count Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg.
<br /><br />
XI e Countess Charlotte of Hanau-Lichtenberg, full name: Countess Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau-Lichtenberg (2 May 1700, Bouxwiller – 1 July 1726, Darmstadt) was the wife of landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt.
<br />The second candidate was the crown prince and later Landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt, who was Lutheran. They were married on 5 April 1717.
<br /><br />
XII d Princess Caroline Louise of Hesse-Darmstadt (11 July 1723 – 8 April 1783), was a consort of Baden, a dilettante artist, scientist, collector and salonist.
<br />The daughter of Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt and Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau, she married on January 28, 1751, to Charles Frederick, Margrave of Baden. EOL
<br /><br />
VIII l Maria Eufrosyne (14 February 1625 - 24 October 1687); married Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie.
<br />Maria Euphrosyne of Zweibrücken (14 February 1625 – 24 October 1687) was a countess palatine, a cousin and foster-sibling of Queen Christina of Sweden, and a sister of King Charles X of Sweden. She was also, after the accession of her brother Charles X on the throne (1654), a titular Royal Princess of Sweden.
<br />On 15 March 1645, Maria Euphrosyne was engaged to the Queen's favorite Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie, and on 7 March 1647, she married him in the Royal Chapel of Tre Kronor (castle) in Stockholm. The marriage was arranged by Christina.
<br /><br />
IX t Katharina Charlotte (1655–1697)
<br />⚭ 1682 Graf Otto Wilhelm von Königsmarck (1639–1688)
<br />Gräfin Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (* 18. März 1654/55; † 15. September 1697) war die Ehefrau des venezianischen Generalissimus und Kriegshelden Otto Wilhelm Graf von Königsmarck, den sie am 9. Februar 1682 heiratete. EOL
<br /><br />
IX u Ebba Hedwig (1659–1700)
<br />⚭ 1684 Graf Karl Gustav Oxenstierna (1655–1686)
<br /><br />
X r Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (1655–1697), gift 1682 med greve Otto Wilhelm Königsmarck; barnlös
<br /><br />
X s Hedvig Ebba De la Gardie (1657–1700), gift 1684 med greve Carl Gustaf Oxenstierna af Södermöre; en son som avled barnlös.
<br /><br />
VIII m Eleonora Catherine (17 May 1626 - 3 March 1692); married Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege.
<br />The negotiations concerning her marriage with Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege, son of Maurice, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, started in 1643. The landgrave was a second cousin of both her parents and nine years her senior. The negotiation process was difficult, but finally completed in June 1646. She was granted a fortune of 20,000 gulden by her father. The marriage took place at Tre Kronor in Stockholm on 6 September 1646.
<br /><br />
IX v Christine (b. Kassel, 30 October 1649 – d. Bevern, 18 March 1702), married in 1667 to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Bevern.
<br />Christine von Hessen (30 October 1648 – 18 March 1702) was a German noblewoman, belonging to the Hessen-Eschwege branch of the Hessen-Rotenburg line of the House of Hesse. Through her marriage on 25 November 1667 in Eschwege to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1636-1687), she became Duchess-Consort of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel-Bevern. EOL
<br /><br />
IX w Juliana (b. Eschwege, 14 May 1652 – d. IJsselstein, 20 June 1693), prospective bride of Charles XI of Sweden; married in 1680 Johann Jakob Marchand, Baron of Lilienburg.
<br />Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege (14 May 1652 – 20 June 1693) was a German noblewoman. In her teens she was brought up at the Swedish royal court as the future queen of King Charles XI of Sweden, her cousin. However, on two occasions before the wedding Juliana became pregnant, and the engagement was eventually broken off. In 1679 or 1680, Juliana married a Dutchman and lived the rest of her life in the Netherlands, while Charles XI married Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark in 1680.
<br />[I'll count the affair as a possible first marriage, so, she was between 19-20 and 27-28 when she married: low count 19, high count 28,]
<br /><br />
X t Eleonora (4 May 1683, IJsselstein – after 22 November 1707, Bremen?), married on 21 October 1704 in IJsselstein Mr. Johan Spiering (6 November 1672, Utrecht – 22 July 1739, Amsterdam), son of Francois Ewoutsz. Spiering and Elisabeth Maria van Someren
<br /><br />
X u Juliana (baptised 4 May 1684, IJsselstein – 24 November 1726, Jever), married in 1707 Ulrich Friedrich von Weltzien, Herr von Blexersande
<br /><br />
IX x Charlotte (b. Eschwege, 3 September 1653 – d. Bremen, 7 February 1708), married firstly in 1673 with Prince August of Saxe-Weissenfels (son of Duke August) and secondly in 1679 with John Adolph, Count of Bentheim-Tecklenburg (divorced 1693).
<br />On 25 August 1673 in Halle, he married Charlotte, the daughter of Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege from his marriage to Countess Palatine Eleonora Catherine of Zweibrücken, the daughter of John Casimir, Count Palatine of Kleeburg. After August's death, Charlotte married Count John Adolph of Bentheim-Tecklenburg, from whom she later divorces. EOL
<br /><br />
VI q Christine (29 June 1543 – 13 May 1604), married in Gottorp on 17 December 1564 to Adolf, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp.
<br /><br />
VII l Sophia (1 June 1569 – 14 November 1634), married on 17 February 1588 to John VII, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL
<br /><br />
VII m Christina (13 April 1573 – 8 December 1625), married on 27 August 1592 to King Charles IX of Sweden.
<br /><br />
VIII n Maria Elizabeth (10 March 1596– 7 August 1618), married her first cousin John, Duke of Östergötland, youngest son of John III of Sweden
<br />On 29 November 1612, at the age of sixteen, Princess Maria Elizabeth celebrated her wedding to the Duke of Ostrogothia in the royal palace Tre Kronor in Stockholm.
<br />.... The royal couple ruled quite independently in their Duchy. John had the right to issue new laws, and Maria Elizabeth evidently had influence on his rule. During the six years they lived together in Ostrogothia, a witch hunt was conducted in the duchy, for which they, and Maria Elizabeth in particular, are considered to be responsible. EOL
<br /><br />
VII n Anna (27 February 1575 – 24 April 1625), married 28 January 1598 to Count Enno III of Ostfriesland.
<br />On 28 January 1598, she married Count Enno III of Ostfriesland, elder son of Count Edzard II of Ostfriesland and his wife Princess Katarina of Sweden, eldest daughter of King Gustav I of Sweden
<br /><br />
VIII o Anna Maria, Countess of Ostfriesland (1601–1633), married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658)
<br />Anna Maria of Ostfriesland (23 June 1601 – 15 February 1634) was a German noblewoman.
<br />On 4 September 1622 she married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658).
<br /><br />
IX y Anna Maria of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1 July 1627 – 11 December 1669), married Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels (ancestors of George III of the United Kingdom).
<br />On 23 November 1647, in Schwerin, Anna Maria married Augustus, second surviving son of Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony, and moved with her husband to Halle, the main city of his domains as Administrator of the Archbishopric of Magdeburg. During her marriage, she bore twelve children, including three daughters who died in infancy in 1663
<br /><br />
X v Magdalene Sibylle (b. Halle, 2 September 1648 - d. Gotha, 7 January 1681), married on 14 November 1669 to Duke Frederick I of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg.
<br /><br />
XI e Anna Sophie (b. Gotha, 22 December 1670 – d. Rudolstadt, 28 December 1728), married on 15 October 1691 to Louis Frederick I, Prince of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.
<br /><br />
XII e Princess Anna Sophie of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt (9 September 1700 – 11 December 1780)[1] was a Princess of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.
<br />On 2 January 1723 in Rudolstadt, she married Franz Josias, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld.
<br /><br />
XIII b Princess Charlotte Sophie of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 September 1731 – Schwerin, 2 August 1810); married on 13 May 1755 Duke Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.
<br /><br />
XIII c Princess Friederike Caroline of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 June 1735 – Schloß Schwaningen, 18 February 1791), married on 22 November 1754 Karl Alexander, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach.
<br /><br />
XI f Dorothea Marie (b. Gotha, 22 January 1674 – d. Meiningen, 18 April 1713), married on 19 September 1704 to Ernst Ludwig I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen.
<br /><br />
XII f Luise Dorothea (b. Meiningen, 7 December 1710 d. Gotha, 22 October 1771) married on 17 September 1729 to Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg EOL
<br /><br />
XI g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 24 March 1675 – d. Karlsbad, 28 May 1709), married on 25 May 1702 to Johann August, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. EOL
<br /><br />
XI h Johanna (b. Gotha, 1 October 1680 – d. Strelitz, 9 July 1704), married on 20 June 1702 to Adolf Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. EOL
<br /><br />
X w Sophie (b. Halle, 23 June 1654 - d. Zerbst, 31 March 1724), married on 18 June 1676 to Karl, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst.
<br /><br />
XI i Magdalena Augusta (1679–1740), Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst married Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg
<br />Princess Magdalena Augusta of Anhalt-Zerbst (13 October 1679 – 11 October 1740) was, by birth, a Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst and, by marriage, a Duchess of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. She was the maternal grandmother of George III of the United Kingdom.
<br />In 1696, Magdalena Augusta married her first cousin, Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, who had become Duke in 1691.
<br /><br />
XII g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 17 July 1715 – d. Langensalza, 12 May 1775), married on 27 November 1734 to Johann Adolf II, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels.
<br /><br />
XII h Augusta (b. Gotha, 30 November 1719 – d. Carlton House, 8 February 1772), married on 8 May 1736 to Frederick, Prince of Wales. They had 9 children; their second child later became King George III of Great Britain.
<br /><br />
X x Christine (b. Halle, 25 August 1656 - d. Eutin, 27 April 1698), married on 21 June 1676 to August Friedrich of Holstein-Gottorp, Prince-Bishop of Lübeck (son of Frederick III, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, and his wife Duchess Marie Elisabeth of Saxony). No issue. EOL
<br /><br />
V l Magdalena of Saxony (7 March 1507 – 25 January 1534); married on 6 November 1524 to Joachim Hector, then Electoral Prince of Brandenburg.
<br /><br />
VI r Barbara of Brandenburg, Duchess of Brieg (1527–1595), had issue
<br />Barbara of Brandenburg (10 August 1527 – Brzeg, 2 January 1595), was a German princess member of the House of Hohenzollern She was a Margravine of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage a Duchess of Brieg (Brzeg).
<br />In 1537 Barbara was betrothed to George (later George II the Pious), second son of Duke Frederick II of Legnica as a part of the alliance signed between her father and Frederick II.[1] The wedding took place eight years later, on 15 February 1545 in her homeland, Berlin.</blockquote>
<br />
<br /><b>13</b> 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18 <b>18 18</b>
<br /><b>12</b> 13 13 14 14 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 17 <b>17 18</b>
<br /><b>01</b> 02 03 04 10 11 12 13 14 22 23 26 27 31 32 <b>34 35</b>
<br />
<br />18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 21 <b>21</b> 21 21 21 22 22 22 22 23 23 23 24 24 24 25 25 25
<br />18 18 18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 <b>20</b> 20 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 23 23 23 23 24 24 24 25
<br />43 44 47 48 53 54 59 60 64 65 <b>68</b> 69 70 77 78 80 81 86 87 88 91 92 95 96 97 99 00
<br />
<br />[the following = above 100]
<br />
<br /><b>26 26</b> 27 27 27 27 28 28 28
<br /><b>25 26</b> 26 26 27 27 27 28 28
<br /><b>01 02</b> 03 08 09 10 11 12 14
<br />
<br />29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 34 37 38 38 40 45 48 <b>63</b>
<br />28 29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 36 38 38 40 44 48 <b>63</b>
<br />15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 <b>35</b>
<br />
<br />Minimum 12 or 13.
<br />Lower Quartile, 17:18 or 18.
<br />Median, 20 or 21.
<br />Higher Quartile, 25:26 or 26.
<br />Maximum 63.
<br /><br />
This is pretty firmly placed in the Modern Ages, the medium year (I had 276 years instead of an expected 270, years of birth and of marriage of each) is 1598~1599.
<br /><br />
In Modern Ages and some Protestant contexts, the age of marriage rises.
<br /><br />
In all these genealogies, this is also the first one in which I saw a single pre-marital affair, that of Juliana, daughter of Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege, and, more importantly from our perspective, of his wife Eleonora Catherine of Palatinate Zweibrücken, who for this reason did <i>not</i> become queen consort of our King Charles XI. And this is precisely my problem with rising ages of marriage, it makes waiting till one is married harder and harder, and therefore promotes promiscuity. In some contexts that leads further to abortion, contraception, perversions.
<br /><br />
Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />St. Bibiana of Rome
<br />Virgin and Martyr
<br />2.XII.2023Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-80447403707892233172023-11-26T06:08:00.000-08:002023-11-27T05:53:14.634-08:00A German Antisemite Prayed for This<br />
<b>Φιλολoγικά/Philologica:</b> <a href="https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2023/11/a-german-antisemite-praid-for-this.html">A German Antisemite Prayed for This</a> · <b>Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere:</b> <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2023/11/i-think-one-should-not-take-look-at.html">I think one should take a look at this, and hear carefully</a> · <a href="https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2023/11/commenting-on-fr-jm-and-kennedy-hall.html">Commenting on Fr. JM and Kennedy Hall</a>
<br /><br />
No, not the guys who had just committed a pogrom near like Constance.*
<br /><br />
I mean a man of the Church who told them, "you can't do this, it is sinful" ...
<br /><br />
And the prayer was heard:
<br /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMtp2WxEA4">An American Tail (1986) - There Are No Cats In America Scene (2/10) | Movieclips
<br /><i>Movieclips, 25 March 2019</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMtp2WxEA4</a>
<br /><br />
He was basically saying, "well, as we can't really hope they'll be very good Christians" (what an Antisemitic thing to say!), "let's pray for them to get a country across the sea ..."
<br /><br />
Fiat Mouskevitch, et Mouskevitch factus est./HGL
<br /><br />
* I think this link would be the correct one, but cannot verify, since I was blocked:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>On February 22, 1349, the Jews of Schaffhausen were rounded up and burned to death as part of the Black Plague persecution, in which the Jews were accused of ...</blockquote>
<br /><br />
<a href="https://academic-accelerator.com/encyclopedia/schaffhausen-massacre">Schaffhausen Massacre: Most Up-to-Date Encyclopedia, ...
<br />https://academic-accelerator.com/encyclopedia/schaffhausen-massacre</a>
<br /><br />
This happened when I tried to click:
<br /><br />
<blockquote>This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data.</blockquote>Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-34845131967702780752023-11-22T12:38:00.000-08:002023-11-22T16:38:42.745-08:00This is not one of the last Scandinavians I Like, as by Personal Affection<br />
But she is definitely one of the last Scandinavians I know by name and of which I wholeheartedly approve.
<br />
<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLgNiktAcmE">CHRISTINA OF MILAN: the girl who escaped Henry VIII. European royal history documentary. Royal women
<br /><i>History Calling | 13 Jan. 2023</i>
<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLgNiktAcmE</a>
<br />
<br />God rest her soul, if she still needs it, and if not, let her dispose of my prayer if it have any merit!/HGL
<br /><br />
PS, Nordic, not really Scandinavian, except as ruler of, since she was Danish and not from Scania./HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-3907534291262457312023-11-22T09:15:00.000-08:002023-11-22T09:41:03.864-08:00No, Churchill was not THAT guy<br />
<table><tr><td>W 87 <td> <td>L 76 <td> <td>S 83 <td> <td>C 67 <td> <td>562</tr>
<tr><td>I 73 <td> <td>E 69 <td> <td>P 80 <td> <td>H 72 <td> <td>517</tr>
<tr><td>N 78 <td> <td>O 79 <td> <td>E 69 <td> <td>U 85 <td> <td>528</tr>
<tr><td>S 83 <td> <td>N 78 <td> <td>N 78 <td> <td>R 82 <td> <td>670</tr>
<tr><td>T 84 <td> <td>A 65 <td> <td>C 67 <td> <td>C 67 </tr>
<tr><td>O 79 <td> <td>R 82 <td> <td>E 69 <td> <td>H 72 </tr>
<tr><td>N 78 <td> <td>D 68 <td> <td>R 82 <td> <td>I 73 </tr>
<tr><td> <td> <td> <td> <td> <td> <td>L 76</tr>
<tr><td> <td> <td> <td> <td> <td> <td>L 76</tr>
<tr><td>562 <td> <td>517 <td> <td>528 <td> <td>670 <td> <td>2277</tr></table>
<br /><br />
<table><tr><td>What if we add spaces?<td> <td>2277 <td> <td>2373 <td> <td>2849</tr>
<tr><td>Or lower case in given names?<td> <td>0096 <td> <td>0576 <td> <td>0256</tr>
<tr><td>Or last name too?<td> <td>2373 <td> <td>2849 <td> <td>3105</tr></table>
<br /><br />
As I have previously stated, using ASCII for gematria is not likely to damn all and everyone just because you look at their name. I mean of course the name with the gematria mentioned in Apocalypse 13:18.
<br /><br />
Even for those who have that gematria, that's not necessarily damning. On the other hand, if you find it in a politician or religious leader or big businessman, look out for whether what he's up to seems legit or not. There is one role, the Antichrist, perhaps two roles, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, who need this number in their gematria (I'm glad I don't have it!) and there are currently four people who have that gematria on the world scene, in ASCII:
<br /><br />
<ul><li> Vladimir Putin has it in three gematrias ("WLADIMIRA", "VLADIMIRB", "V POUTINE")
<li> Bergoglio in one (take that name and use only upper case letters)
<li> a president of the US ("JRBIDENJR")
<li> any <i>male</i> king of either England or Scotland after ASCII was invented ("ENGELSMAN", "skotte"; a ruling Queen would be an "ENGELSKA" or a "skotska" which also do not so add up).</ul>
<br /><br />
What's up with "V POUTINE" and "VLADIMIRB"? Doesn't seem to mean anything?
<br /><br />
"V. POUTINE" would be an initial and name of his in French. The dot or stop is in French called a point, so "V POUTINE" would incur that gematria by doing something point-<i>less</i> in a French speaking country.
<br /><br />
"VLADIMIRB" would indeed mean nothing if you dissolve it as "Vladimirb". But what about "Vladimir B" = "Vladimir II"? Ah, we are talking. In his family-line he is the <i>second</i> known Vladimir (his father and grandfather are the only known ones before him, and only the father, not the grandfather, are named Vladimir). In all the history of Muscovy, even going back to Suzdal, he is the second ruler to be named Vladimir, the first one being Lenin. All Vladimirs in <i>any</i> Rus' before that, before the Russian Revolution, were in for instance Kyiv—and are more properly speaking referred to as Volodymyrs. Not in Suzdal or Vladimir-Suzdal (perhaps because they wanted to avoid being confused with their city) or in Moscow, or in Tver either. Nor any Czar. Only, first Lenin, now Putin./HGL
<br /><br />
PS, 2849 is related to that number as a significant fraction, 77/18. Not sure that means anything./HGLHans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-931118226392796332.post-4457249880133264652023-11-19T22:07:00.000-08:002023-11-19T22:15:59.290-08:00You know your Great-Grandfather? You know you are better off than he?<br />
Which one of them? You have one father, two grand-fathers, four great-grandfathers. I know two of mine, though I never met them.
<br /><br />
Do you know your great-great-grandfather? You have 8 of those, so do I, and I know one, whom I also never met.
<br /><br />
I bet you don't know your great-grandfather's great-grandfather (any of the 32) or such a one's great-grandfather (any of the 128). Neither do I.
<br /><br />
But Charles III of the United Kingdom knows his great-grandfather's great-grandfather (on a purely paternal line) was Friedrich Karl Ludwig, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck.
<br /><br />
Or if you prefer, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Karl_Ludwig,_Duke_of_Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck">Frederick Charles Lewis. (20 August 1757 – 24 April 1816)</a>*
<br /><br />
<blockquote>Friedrich Karl Ludwig was born in Königsberg, Kingdom of Prussia. At the age of two he lost his father who died from wounds he received in the battle of Kundersdorf. He joined the Prussian Army in 1777 upon the request of King Frederick the Great. By 1781 he was a staff officer in the Regiment von Schlieben and by 1787 he commanded a grenadier battalion based in Königsberg. He assisted in the suppression of the 1794 Kościuszko Uprising and was Governor of Kraków in 1795. He retired from Prussian service as a lieutenant general in 1797 and spent the rest of his life improving agriculture in Holstein. He died in Wellingsbüttel Manor, now part of Hamburg.</blockquote>
<br /><br />
And he knows that one's greatgrandfather (also purely paternal) was <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Louis,_Duke_of_Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck">Frederick Lewis, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck. (6 April 1653 – 7 March 1728)</a>**
<br /><br />
<blockquote>He was only the <i>titular</i> duke, because he did not inherit the domain of Beck. It had been inherited by Duke Frederick William I, the son of his elder brother, Duke August, in 1689.[1] Duke Frederick William I was killed in the Battle of Francavilla in Sicily in 1719, leaving a widow, née Marie Antoine called Antoinette Josepha Isnardi di Castello, Contessa di Sanfré (1692–1762), and two minor daughters.[1] Maria Antonia shared administration of Beck with her mother-in-law, Duchess Hedwig Louisa of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck (née Countess of Lippe-Bückeburg-Schaumburg).
<br /><br />
In 1671 Frederick Louis became a cornet in the cavalry regiment von Eller in the army of Brandenburg-Prussia. In 1675 he participated in the Battle of Fehrbellin as a Rittmeister. The following year he was a colonel in the Holstein dragoons. Frederick Lewis was named lieutenant general and Governor of Wesel in 1690. Three years later he was appointed commanding general of the Duchy of Prussia.
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On 17 January 1701 Frederick Lewis received the Order of the Black Eagle from the new King Frederick I of Prussia and shortly afterward was named Statthalter of the Kingdom of Prussia and Governor of Königsberg. During the War of the Spanish Succession, he participated in the Battle of Oudenarde in 1708, the Battle of Malplaquet in 1709, and the sieges of Lille, Mons, and Tournai. Frederick Louis was promoted to field marshal in 1713. The duke also secured neutrality for Prussia during much of the Great Northern War. He died in Königsberg and was buried alongside his wife in Königsberg Cathedral.</blockquote>
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For his great-grand-mother's great-grand-mother, purely feminine line, he knows it is one Frances Webb. She has no wikipage, but her daughter <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Caroline_Salisbury">Anne Caroline Salisbury (1805 – 3 May 1881)</a> has.
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So, you happen to know that one of your great-grand-fathers was worse off than you, materially? But are you sure he was better off than all of his own great-grand-fathers? Or than theirs? I am not.
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So, progress has done your family good on the line of one great-grandfather up to yourself. Congratulations. But that doesn't mean progress never hurt your family. I am pretty sure it has on occasion hurt mine.
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Hans Georg Lundahl
<br />Paris
<br />St. Felix of Valois
<br />20.XI.2023
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<i>Sancti Felicis Valesii, Presbyteri et Confessoris, qui Ordinis sanctissimae Trinitatis redemptionis captivorum exstitit Fundator, ac pridie Nonas Novembris obdormivit in Domino.</i>
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PS can Tolkien have had some kind of help from this line, since he came from Prussia by family? Or ABBA, because they like Bouzouki?/HGL
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* The one footnote cited by wiki in the passage is:
<br />Albinus, Robert (1985). <i>Lexikon der Stadt Königsberg Pr. und Umgebung</i> (in German). Leer: Verlag Gerhard Rautenberg. p. 371. ISBN 3-7921-0320-6.
<br />** The three footnotes of this other passage are:
<br />Huberty, Michel; Alain Giraud; F. and B. Magdelaine (1994). <i>L'Allemagne Dynastique Tome VII Oldenbourg</i> (in French). France. pp. 79, 97, 118, 141. ISBN 2-901138-07-1.
<br />Albinus, Robert (1985). <i>Lexikon der Stadt Königsberg Pr. und Umgebung</i> (in German). Leer: Verlag Gerhard Rautenberg. p. 371. ISBN 3-7921-0320-6.
<br />Th. Hirsch (1878), <a href="https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/ADB:Friedrich_Ludwig_%28Herzog_von_Schleswig-Holstein%29">"Friedrich Ludwig, Herzog von Schleswig-Holstein-Beck",</a> <i>Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie (ADB)</i> (in German), vol. 8, Leipzig: Duncker & Humblot, p. 284Hans Georg Lundahlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.com0