Barbara von Cilli and / und 134 Daughters / Töchter

Age at first marriage / Alter bei der ersten Heirat.

I Barbara of Cilli or Barbara of Celje (Hungarian: Cillei Borbála, German: Barbara von Cilli, Slovenian and Croatian: Barbara Celjska, 1392 – 11 July 1451), was the Holy Roman Empress and Queen of Hungary and Bohemia by marriage to Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund. She was actively involved in politics and economy of her times, independently administering large feudal fiefdoms and taxes, and was instrumental in creating the famous royal Order of the Dragon. She served as the regent of Hungarian kingdom in the absence of her husband four times: in 1412, 1414, 1416, and 1418.

Biography

Barbara was born in Celje, in the Duchy of Styria (today Slovenia), as the daughter and youngest child of Herman II, Count of Celje, and Countess Anna of Schaunberg.

Barbara was engaged in 1405 to Sigismund of Bohemia, King of Hungary, a younger son of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor. The marriage likely took place in December 1405.

II Elizabeth of Luxembourg (Hungarian: Luxemburgi Erzsébet; 7 October 1409 – 19 December 1442) was queen consort of Hungary, queen consort of Germany and Bohemia.
In 1422 Albert married Elisabeth of Luxemburg, the daughter and heiress of the King Sigismund of Hungary (later also Holy Roman Emperor and King of Bohemia), and his second wife, the Slovenian noblewoman Barbara of Celje.

III a Anne of Bohemia and Austria (12 April 1432 – 13 November 1462) was a Duchess of Luxembourg in her own right and, as a consort, Landgravine of Thuringia and of Saxony.
On 2 June 1446 the young Anne was married to William "the Brave" of Saxony (1425–82), Landgrave of Thuringia, a younger son of Frederick I "the Warlike" of Saxony.

IV a Margaret of Thuringia (1449 – 13 July 1501), who married John II, Elector of Brandenburg, and whose direct main heirs have been Electors of Brandenburg, then Kings of Prussia, and then German Emperors.
On 15 August 1476, in Berlin, she married John Cicero, Elector of Brandenburg.

V a Anna (27 August 1487, Berlin–3 May 1514, Kiel), married 10 April 1502 to the future King Frederick I of Denmark (she was never queen consort, since she died before her husband's accession).

VI a Dorothea of Denmark (1 August 1504 – 11 April 1547), was a Duchess of Prussia by marriage to Duke Albert, Duke of Prussia. She was the daughter of King Frederick I of Denmark and Anna of Brandenburg.
In 1525, she received a proposal from the newly made Duke of Prussia. The marriage was arranged by her father's German chancellor Wolfgang von Utenhof. The wedding was conducted 12 February 1526 and Dorothea arrived with a large entourage in Königsberg in June.

VII a Anna Sophia (11 June 1527 – 6 February 1591), married John Albert I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Güstrow.
She married on 24 February 1555 in Wismar to Duke John Albert I of Mecklenburg (1525-1576). EOL

V b Ursula (17 October 1488–18 September 1510, Güstrow), married 16 February 1507 to Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg.

VI b Sophia of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1508–1541), married Ernest I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg
Ernest married Sophia, daughter of Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg and Ursula of Brandenburg, on 2 June 1528 in Schwerin.

VII b Margarete (1534–1596), ⚭ 1559 Graf Johann von Mansfeld-Hinterort

VII c Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (* 1539; † 3. September 1586 in Detmold) war eine Tochter des Herzogs Ernst I. von Braunschweig-Lüneburg und dessen Frau Sophie von Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Als Ehefrau Ottos IV. wurde sie Gräfin von Schaumburg.
Am 5. Juni 1558 heiratete sie in Celle Otto IV. von Schaumburg, dessen erste Frau Maria von Pommern-Stettin 1554 gestorben war.

VIII a Maria (1559–1616, verheiratet mit Jobst von Limburg-Styrum)
Jobst heiratete am 2. März 1591 in Detmold Gräfin Maria von Schauenburg und Holstein-Pinneberg (* 14. Oktober 1559; † 3. Oktoberjul. / 13. Oktober 1616greg. auf Kasteel de Wildenborch), Erbin der Herrschaft Gemen und Tochter von Otto IV. von Holstein-Schaumburg und Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg,

IX a Anna Sophia (* 21. März 1602 auf Kasteel de Wildenborch; † 9. September 1669 ebenda), Stiftsdame in Essen und Pröpstin in Rellinghausen
⚭ 1623 Johann von Morrien zu Nordkirchen (* 2. Dezember 1597; † 30. März 1628)
⚭ 1630 Johann Melchior von Dombroick (* um 1600; † 1658)

VIII b Elisabeth (1566–1638, verheiratet mit Simon zur Lippe)
Simon VI. war seit 1578 mit Armgard von Rietberg († 13. Juli 1584) verheiratet. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. 1585 ging er eine weitere Ehe mit der Gräfin Elisabeth zu Holstein-Schaumburg ein, einer Tochter Ottos IV., Graf von Schaumburg und Holstein-Pinneberg, und Elisabeth Ursulas von Braunschweig-Lüneburg.

IX b Elisabeth (1592–1646) ⚭ 1612 Graf Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg
Elisabeth zur Lippe (* 9. Juli 1592; † 19. Juni 1646) war gewählte Äbtissin im Stift Freckenhorst. Wegen der widrigen Verhältnisse übte sie ihr Amt aber nicht aus. Ab 1612 wurde sie durch Heirat zur Gräfin von Holstein-Schaumburg.
Am 12. September 1612 heiratete Elisabeth auf Schloss Brake den Grafen Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg (1577–1616) aus der Gemener Line. EOL

IX c Ursula (1598–1638) ⚭ 1617 Graf Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar
Ursula zur Lippe (* 15. Februar 1598 auf Schloss Brake in Lemgo; † 27. Juli 1638 in Hadamar) war durch Heirat Gräfin von Nassau-Hadamar.
Am 26. August 1617 heiratete sie in Detmold den Grafen Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar, mit dem sie 21 Jahre lang verheiratet war.

X a Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar (* 17. Januar 1619 in Dillenburg; † 2. März 1647 in Harzgerode) war Gemahlin von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode und damit Fürstin von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode.
Die Hochzeit erfolgte am 10. August 1642 in Bückeburg.

XI a Elisabeth Charlotte von Anhalt-Harzgerode (* 11. Februar 1647 in Harzgerode; † 20. Januar 1723 in Schloss Østerholm auf Alsen) war durch Heirat zunächst Fürstin von Anhalt-Köthen und dann Herzogin von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.
Sie war die Tochter von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Harzgerode und dessen erster Frau Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar. Sie war zunächst seit 1663 verheiratet mit Wilhelm Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen, wurde 1665 Witwe und heiratete 1666 August von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.

XII a Dorothea Johanna (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727) ⚭ Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg (1670–1724)
[Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg] verheiratete sich am 13. Januar 1699 in Harzgerode mir Prinzessin Dorothea Johanna von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727), einer Tochter von Herzog August EOL

X b Sophia Magdalena (1622–1658), ⚭ Fürst Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg (1594–1662)
Sofie Magdalena von Nassau-Dillenburg (* 6. Februar 1622 in Hadamar; † 28. Juni 1658 in Dillenburg) war durch Heirat Fürstin von Nassau-Dillenburg.
1656 heiratete sie ihren Cousin, den 1652 gefürsteten Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg. Der Ehe, des Fürsten dritter,[1] entstammten die Kinder August (1657–1680), Karl (1658–1659) und Ludwig (1658–1658).[2] Sie starb kurz nach der Geburt der Zwillinge Karl und Ludwig. EOL

IX d Sophie (1599–1653) ⚭ 1626 Fürst Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen
Am 8. September 1625 starb Amoena Amalia im Alter von 39 Jahren. Nach Ablauf des obligaten Trauerjahres heiratete Fürst Ludwig am 12. September 1626 Sophie, Tochter von Graf Simon VI. zur Lippe. Mit ihr hatte er ebenfalls einen Sohn, Fürst Wilhelm Ludwig. EOL

IV b Katharina of Thuringia (1453 – 10 July 1534), who married Duke Henry II of Münsterberg and who has surviving descendants, mainly among Bohemian high nobility.
In 1471, Henry the Younger married Catherine, the daughter of William III, Landgrave of Thuringia.

V c Henry had a daughter Anna (1471–1517), who married in 1493 with Henry IV of Neuhaus.
Henry's first marriage was with Elizabeth of Sternberg; his second wife was Agnes of Cimburg (d. 1485). His third marriage was with Magdalena of Gleichen, and after her death in 1492, he married Anna of Poděbrady, the daughter of Duke Henry the Younger Münsterberg-Oels

VI c Anna († 1570), verheiratet in erster Ehe mit Hynek Boček von Kunstadt († 1518); in zweiter Ehe mit Ladislav von Sternberg auf Bechyně († 1521) und in dritter Ehe mit Heinrich VII. von Rosenberg (1496–1526) EOL

III b Elizabeth of Austria (German: Elisabeth von Habsburg; Polish: Elżbieta Rakuszanka; Lithuanian: Elžbieta Habsburgaitė; c. 1436 – 30 August 1505) was Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania as the wife of King Casimir IV of Poland.
In August 1452, preparing for the Thirteen Years' War (1454–66) with the Teutonic Knights, the Poles sent an embassy to Vienna to once again negotiate marriage between Elisabeth and now-king Casimir IV of Poland.[13] Ulrich II, Count of Celje, who now had custody of Elisabeth, received the proposal favorably and sent two of his men to Poland. The formal wedding agreement was reached in August 1453 in Wrocław in the presence of Polish and Austrian nobles.
Elisabeth arrived to Poland in February 1454 with a retinue of nine hundred riders.[14] Reportedly, Casimir was informed that Elisabeth was not an attractive lady and was reconsidering the marriage, but bowed to the pressure of his court.[19] On February 9, Elisabeth arrived at Kraków and was met by Casimir and his mother Sophia of Halshany. The next day, 18-year-old Elisabeth married 27-year-old Casimir and was crowned Queen of Poland. [Or 17 year old, if born later in 1436 than early February]

IV c Hedwig Jagiellon (Polish: Jadwiga Jagiellonka, Lithuanian: Jadvyga Jogailaitė, German: Hedwig Jagiellonica; 21 September 1457 – 18 February 1502), baptized as "Hedwigis", was a Polish princess and member of the Jagiellonian dynasty, as well as Duchess of Bavaria by marriage.
Matthias Corvinus asked the hand of Hedwig again in July 1471 and in September 1473 until finally, a definitive refusal was made by Queen Elizabeth. At the beginning of 1473, two counselors sent by Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria-Munich arrived in Poland with a marriage proposal; however, Casimir IV refused the offer because at that time, he was already negotiating a marriage between his eldest daughter and George, son and heir of Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut.
Hedwig arrived with her family in Poznań, where on 10 October 1475, she said goodbye to them. With a large retinue of approximately 1,200 knights, she arrived in Wittenberg on 23 October. She was accompanied, among others, by Anna, widow of Bolesław II, Duke of Cieszyn.
On 14 November 1475, Hedwig and her retinue finally arrived in Landshut, an event which inspired the famous medieval pageant Landshut Wedding. The wedding ceremony took place that day at St. Martin's Church, with the service being officiated by Bernhard von Rohr, Archbishop of Salzburg.

V d Elisabeth of Bavaria-Landshut (1478 – 15 September 1504), married on 10 February 1499 to Rupert, Count Palatine of the Rhine. EOL 27)

IV d Sophia (6 May 1464 – 5 October 1512), married on 14 February 1479 to Frederick I, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach. ///

V e Sophia of Brandenburg-Ansbach (10 March 1485 – 24 May 1537), married on 14 November 1518 to Duke Frederick II of Legnica.

VI d Sophie (1525–1546)
married in 1545 Elector John George of Brandenburg (1525-1598) EOL 5)

V f Anna of Brandenburg-Ansbach (5 May 1487 – 7 February 1539), married on 1 December 1518 to Duke Wenceslaus II of Cieszyn. EOL

V g Elisabeth of Brandenburg-Ansbach (25 March 1494 – 31 May 1518), married on 29 September 1510 to Margrave Ernest of Baden-Durlach. 3)

VI e Anna (April 1512 – after 1579) married on 11 February 1537 to Count Charles I of Hohenzollern (1516 – 8 March 1576) EOL

VI f Amalie (February 1513; died 1594) married in 1561 to Count Frederick II of Löwenstein (22 August 1528 – 5 June 1569) EOL

VI g Maria Jacobea (October 1514; died: 1592) married in February 1577 to Count Wolfgang II of Barby (11 December 1531 – 23 March 1615) EOL

VI h Marie Cleopha (September 1515 – 28 April 1580) married in 1548 to Count William of Schultz (died circa 1566) EOL

VI i Elizabeth (20 May 1516; died: 9 May 1568), married:
in 1533 to Count Gabriel von Salamanca-Ortenburg (died: December 1539) EOL
on 30 July 1543 to Count Conrad II of Castell (10 July 1519 – 8 July 1577)

V h Barbara of Brandenburg-Ansbach (24 September 1495 – 23 September 1552), married on 26 July 1528 to Landgrave George III of Leuchtenberg.

VI j Elisabeth (1537/8-1579)
married in 1559 to Count John VI of Nassau-Dillenburg (1536-1606)

VII d Elisabeth (1564-1611), married in 1583 with Philip IV, Count of Nassau-Weilburg and in 1603 with Wolfgang Ernst I of Isenburg-Büdingen-Birstein, EOL

VII e Maria (1568-1625), married John Louis I of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein,
Maria married John Louis I, Count of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein in 1588

VIII c Margaretha (1589-1660), married in 1606 to Adolph of Bentheim

VIII d Anna Catharina (1590-1622), married in 1607 to Count Simon VII "the Pious" of Lippe

IX e Mary Elizabeth (1611-1667) married in 1649 to Count Christian Frederick of Mansfeld-Hinterort (1615-1666)

IX f Anna Catherine (1612-1659) married in Prince Frederick von Anhalt-Harzgerode (1613-1670)
In Bückeburg on 10 August 1642 Frederick married Johanna Elisabeth (b. Dillenburg, 7 January 1619 – d. Harzgerode, 2 March 1647), daughter of John Louis, Prince of Nassau-Hadamar.

X c Elisabeth Charlotte (b. Harzgerode, 11 February 1647 – d. Osterholm, 20 January 1723), married on 25 August 1663 to William Louis, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen, then for a second time on 6 October 1666 to Augustus, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg.

XI b Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), married Prince William II of Nassau-Dillenburg (1670-1724)
He married on 13 January 1699 in Harzgerode to Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), the daughter of Duke Augustus of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg. EOL

IV e Anna (12 March 1476 – 12 August 1503), married on 2 February 1491 to Bogislaw X, Duke of Pomerania

V i Anna of Pomerania (1492 – 25 April 1550), married on 9 June 1516 to Duke George I of Brieg. EOL

V j Sophie of Pomerania (1498 – 13 May 1568), married on 9 October 1518 to Frederick, Duke of Holstein-Schleswig, who became King Frederick I of Denmark in 1523.

VI k Elizabeth (14 October 1524 – 15 October 1586), married:
on 26 August 1543 to Duke Magnus III of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
on 14 February 1556 to Ulrich, Duke of Mecklenburg

VII f Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (Sophia; 4 September 1557 – 14 October 1631) was Queen of Denmark and Norway by marriage to Frederick II of Denmark. She was the mother of King Christian IV of Denmark and Anne of Denmark. She was Regent of Schleswig-Holstein from 1590 to 1594.[1]
At the age of fourteen Sophie, on 20 July 1572, married Frederick II of Denmark in Copenhagen; he was thirty-eight. She was crowned the following day.[17]

VIII e Elisabeth of Denmark (25 August 1573 – 19 July 1625) was duchess consort of Brunswick-Lüneburg as married to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg. She was regent of the Duchy of Brunswick-Lüneburg in place of her incapacitated son Frederick Ulrich, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg in 1616–1622.
She was married on 19 April 1590 at Kronborg Castle to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg.

IX g Sophia Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (20 February 1592 – 23 January 1642), married Ernest Casimir, Prince of Nassau-Dietz
On 8 June 1607, Sophie Hedwig married Count Ernest Casimir I of Nassau-Dietz (1573–1632). EOL

IX h Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (23 June 1593 – 25 March 1650), married Augustus, Duke of Saxony, and John Philip, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg
Elisabeth married first on 1 January 1612 in Dresden, to Duke August of Saxony (1589–1615), the administrator of the diocese of Naumburg. August suddenly died at the age of 26, after only three years of marriage.
From her second marriage, Elisabeth had only one surviving daughter

X d Elisabeth Sophie of Saxe-Altenburg (10 October 1619 – 20 December 1680), was a princess of Saxe-Altenburg and, by marriage, duchess of Saxe-Gotha.
In Altenburg on 24 October 1636, Elisabeth Sophie married her kinsman Ernst I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha. As a dowry, she received 20,000 guilders, who were pledged by the town of Roßla. As Widow's seat, the bride obtained the towns of Kapellendorf and Berka, with the latter called Gartenhaus in Weimar.

XI c Elisabeth Dorothea (b. Coburg, 8 January 1640 – d. Butzbach, 24 August 1709), married on 5 December 1666 to Louis VI, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.

XII b Sophie Luise (1670–1758)
⚭ 1688 Fürst Albrecht Ernst II. von Oettingen-Oettingen (1669–1731)

XIII a Die einzige Tochter Elisabeth Friederike (1691–1758) heiratete 1713 Karl Ludwig Graf zu Hohenlohe-Neuenstein-Gleichen (Hohenlohe-Weikersheim; 1674–1756), 1726–1729 Direktor des Fränkischen Reichsgrafenkollegiums,[4] Sohn des Grafen Johann Friedrich von Hohenlohe, der ein Enkel des Wolfgang II. von Hohenlohe war, und der Luise Amöne, einer Tochter des Herzogs Friedrich von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.[5] EOL

XII c Elisabeth Dorothea (1676–1721)
⚭ 1700 Landgraf Friedrich III. Jakob von Hessen-Homburg (1673–1746) EOL

IX i Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 February 1595 – 26 June 1650), married Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania
Hedwig married on 7 February 1619 in Wolfenbüttel to Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania (1589–1622), Bishop of Cammin. The wedding feast was very costly; it was attended by 16 ruling princes. The marriage lasted only three years and remained childless. EOL

IX j Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (8 July 1596 – 1 September 1643), married Christian William of Brandenburg, son of Joachim III Frederick, Elector of Brandenburg
His first wedding took place on 1 January 1615 in Wolfenbüttel, where he married Dorothea (1596-1643), a daughter of the Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel.

X e Sophie Elisabeth of Brandenburg (1 February 1616 at Moritzburg Castle in Halle – 16 March 1650 at Altenburg Castle) was a Princess of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage Duchess of Saxe-Altenburg.
She married on 18 September 1638 in Altenburg to Duke Frederick William II of Saxe-Altenburg (1603-1669). The marriage was described as a happy one; however, it remained childless. EOL

IX k Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 May 1612 – 17 February 1673), married George Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg
George Louis married on 19 February 1638 in Coppenbrügge to Princess Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1612–1673),[2] the daughter of Henry Julius, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel and Elizabeth of Denmark

X f Elisabeth Charlotte (1643–1686), married to Count Ferdinand Gobert von Aspremont-Lynden
In 1680, Ferdinand Gobert was firstly married Princess Charlotte von Nassau-Dillenburg (1643–1686), daughter of George Louis, Prince of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL

VIII f Anne of Denmark (Danish: Anna; 12 December 1574 – 2 March 1619) was the wife of King James VI and I; as such, she was Queen of Scotland from their marriage on 20 August 1589 and Queen of England and Ireland from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until her death in 1619.[1]

IX l Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia (19 August 1596 – 13 February 1662). Married 1613, Frederick V, Elector Palatine. Died aged 65.
Elizabeth was born at Dunfermline Palace, Fife, on 19 August 1596 at 2 o'clock in the morning.
The wedding took place on 14 February 1613 at the royal chapel at the Palace of Whitehall and was a grand occasion that saw more royalty than ever visit the court of England.

X g Henriette Marie of the Palatinate (7 July 1626 – 18 September 1651); married Prince Sigismund Rákóczi, brother of George II Rákóczi, Prince of Transylvania, on 16 June 1651 EOL

X h Sophia, Electress of Hanover (14 October 1630 – 8 June 1714); married Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover, had issue, including King George I of Great Britain. Many other royal families are Sophia's, and therefore, Elizabeth's, descendants. Sophia came close to ascending to the British throne, but died two months before Queen Anne.
On 30 September 1658, she married Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg, at Heidelberg, who in 1692 became the first Elector of Hanover.

XI d Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (30 October 1668 – 1 February 1705) was the first Queen consort in Prussia as wife of King Frederick I. She was the only daughter of Elector Ernest Augustus of Hanover and his wife Sophia of the Palatinate. Her eldest brother, George Louis, succeeded to the British throne in 1714 as King George I.
By marrying Frederick on 8 October 1684, she became Electress of Brandenburg in 1688, and after the elevation of Brandenburg-Prussia to a kingdom in 1701, she became the first Queen in Prussia. EOL

VIII g Princess Augusta of Denmark (8 April 1580 – 5 February 1639) was the Duchess of Holstein-Gottorp as the wife of Duke John Adolf. She was the third daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophia of Mecklenburg-Güstrow. She was politically influential during the reign of her son, Duke Frederick III.
She was married on 30 August 1596 in Copenhagen to her parents' cousin Duke John Adolf of Holstein-Gottorp (1575–1616) and had eight children.

IX m Elisabeth Sofie (12 October 1599 – 25 November 1627), married on 5 March 1621 to Duke Augustus of Saxe-Lauenburg.

X i Anna Elisabeth (23 August 1624 – 27 May 1688, Philippseck Castle in today's Butzbach), married on 2 April 1665 in Lübeck, divorced in 1672, William Christoph, Landgrave of Hesse-Homburg EOL

X j Sibylle Hedwig (30 July 1625 – 1 August 1703, Ratzeburg), married in 1654 her half-cousin Francis Erdmann, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg

IX n Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682), married in 1633 to Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön, son of John II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg.
Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682) was a German noblewoman from the House of (Schleswig-)Holstein-Gottorp, a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg. She became the first Duchess of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön[1] as the wife of Duke Joachim Ernest (1595–1671).
In 1633, she married Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.

X k Duchess Agnes Hedwig of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (29 September 1640 – 20 November 1698), who married Christian, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg and had issue

X l Duchess Sophia Eleonora of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (30 July 1644 – 22 January 1689), who married Wolfgang Julius, Count of Hohenlohe-Neuenstein and had no issue
He married twice. On 25 August 1666 he married Sophie Eleanor of Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1 August 1644, Plön – 22 January 1689, Neuenstein), daughter of Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1622–1671). EOL

IX o Hedwig (23 December 1603 – 22 March 1657), married on 15 July 1620 to Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach.

X m Augusta Sophie (22 November 1624 – 30 April 1682), married Václav Eusebius František, Prince of Lobkowicz
His second marriage was on 6 February 1653 with Auguste Sophie von Pfalz-Sulzbach (1624–1682), daughter of Duke Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach. EOL

VIII h Princess Hedwig of Denmark (5 August 1581 – 26 November 1641) was the youngest daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow, and Electress of Saxony from 1602 to 1611 as the wife of Christian II. The marriage was childless, and her husband was succeeded by his brother John George. After Christian's death in 1611, the Dowager Electress Hedwig held a powerful position in Saxony.
She was married on 12 September 1602 to Christian II, Elector of Saxony, her first cousin once removed, in Dresden. EOL

VI l Dorothea (1528 – 11 November 1575), married on 27 October 1573 to Duke Christof of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL

IV f Barbara (15 July 1478 – 15 February 1534), married on 21 November 1496 to George, Duke of Saxony

+ her sister:
IV g Elizabeth (13 November 1482 – 16 February 1517), married on 25 November 1515 to Frederick II, Duke of Legnica EOL

V k Christine of Saxony (25 December 1505 – 15 April 1549); married on 11 December 1523 to Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.

VI m Agnes (31 May 1527 – 4 November 1555), married:
in Marburg on 9 January 1541 to Maurice, Elector of Saxony;
in Weimar on 26 May 1555 to John Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha.

VII g Anna of Saxony (23 December 1544 – 18 December 1577) was the heiress of Maurice, Elector of Saxony, and Agnes, eldest daughter of Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.
On 2 June 1561 the marriage contract was signed in Torgau. Anna's dowry would be the large sum of 100,000 thalers. The wedding took place on 24 August 1561 in Leipzig. On 1 September 1561 William of Orange, along with his young wife, relocated to the Netherlands.

VIII i Anna (Breda, 5 November 1563 – Franeker, 13 June 1588), married on 25 November 1587 to William Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL

VIII j Emilia (Köln, 10 April 1569 – Geneva, 6 March 1629), married on 7 November 1597 to Manuel of Portugal.

IX p Maria Belgica of Portugal (born before 12 October 1598[2] – 28 July 1647), married in June 1629 to Colonel Theodor Croll (died 1640 in Venice [murdered]), Quartermaster general of Duke Odoardo Farnese, Duke of Parma.

X n Emilia Catharina Croll, married Claude d'Amond in 1653 and had a daughter, Juliana Catharina.
X o Anna Rosine Croll, married Jean des Vignes, head of the court of Genoiller in 1653. They had two sons.
X p Susanne Sidonia Croll, married 1) Jean François Badel and 2) Vincent Ardin. She had children from both marriages.

IX Mauritia Eleonora of Portugal (born before 10 May 1609[2] – 25 June 1674), married to Count George Frederick of Nassau-Siegen on 4 June 1647 in The Hague, no children. EOL

VI n Anna (26 October 1529 – 10 July 1591), married on 24 February 1544 to Wolfgang, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken.

VII h Barbara (1559–1618)
married in 1591 Count Gottfried of Oettingen-Oettingen (1554–1622) EOL

VII i Maria Elisabeth (1561–1629)
married in 1585 Count Emich XII of Leiningen-Dagsburg-Hardenburg (1562–1607)

VI o Barbara (8 April 1536 – 8 June 1597), married:
in Reichenweier on 10 September 1555 to Duke George I of Württemberg-Mömpelgard;
in Kassel on 11 November 1568 to Count Daniel of Waldeck. EOL

VI p Elisabeth (13 February 1539 – 14 March 1582), married on 8 July 1560 to Louis VI, Elector Palatine.

VII j Anna Marie (1561–1589), married Charles IX of Sweden
Maria of the Palatinate (24 July 1561 – 29 July 1589), also known as Anna Maria, was a Swedish princess and Duchess of Södermanland by marriage, the first spouse of the future King Charles IX of Sweden. She died before he became king.
The wedding took place in Heidelberg 11 May 1579. Afterwards, she followed him to Sweden, where they resided in his Duchy in Södermanland. They left Germany in July, and in September 1579, Maria received the oath of loyalty from the subjects in her dower lands Gripsholm, Tynnelsö and Rävsnäs estates, Strängnäs city with the parishes Åkers, Selebo and Daga as well as Överenhörna and Ytterenhörna.

VII k Catherine of Sweden (Swedish: Katarina; 10 November 1584 – 13 December 1638) was a Swedish princess and a Countess Palatine of Zweibrücken as the consort of her second cousin John Casimir of Palatinate-Zweibrücken.
She is known as the periodical foster-mother of Queen Christina of Sweden and the mother of Charles X of Sweden.
The marriage took place on 11 June 1615 in Stockholm.

VIII k Christina Magdalena (27 May 1616 - 14 August 1662); married Frederick VI, Margrave of Baden-Durlach. King Adolf Frederick of Sweden was her great-grandson.
The wedding, held in Stockholm, was postponed until 30 November 1642 after a fire broke out at the ball before their designated wedding date on 26 November.

IX q Christine (1645–1705)
∞ 1. 1665 Albert II, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1620–1667)
∞ 2. 1681 Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646–1691)
Christine von Baden-Durlach (* 22. April 1645; † 21. Dezember 1705) war durch Heirat Markgräfin von Ansbach sowie später Herzogin von Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg.
Seine dritte Ehe schloss er am 6. August 1665 in Durlach mit Christine (1645–1705), Tochter des Markgrafen Friedrich VI. von Baden-Durlach. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. EOL

IX r Johanna Elizabeth of Baden-Durlach (born: 6 November 1651; died: 28 September 1680), married on 26 January 1673 the Margrave John Frederick of Brandenburg-Ansbach (born: 4 October 1654; died: 22 March 1686) (→ Ancestors of the Swedish kings of the House of Bernadotte, by Charles XV of Sweden's and Oscar II's mother, Josephine of Leuchtenberg, as was their daughter's daughter was her granddaughter)

X q Margravine Dorothea Friederike of Brandenburg-Ansbach (12 August 1676 – 13 March 1731) married Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg and had issue, including Charlotte of Hanau, wife of Louis VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.
On 20 (or 30) August 1699, Dorothea Friederike married Count Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg.

XI e Countess Charlotte of Hanau-Lichtenberg, full name: Countess Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau-Lichtenberg (2 May 1700, Bouxwiller – 1 July 1726, Darmstadt) was the wife of landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt.
The second candidate was the crown prince and later Landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt, who was Lutheran. They were married on 5 April 1717.

XII d Princess Caroline Louise of Hesse-Darmstadt (11 July 1723 – 8 April 1783), was a consort of Baden, a dilettante artist, scientist, collector and salonist.
The daughter of Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt and Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau, she married on January 28, 1751, to Charles Frederick, Margrave of Baden. EOL

VIII l Maria Eufrosyne (14 February 1625 - 24 October 1687); married Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie.
Maria Euphrosyne of Zweibrücken (14 February 1625 – 24 October 1687) was a countess palatine, a cousin and foster-sibling of Queen Christina of Sweden, and a sister of King Charles X of Sweden. She was also, after the accession of her brother Charles X on the throne (1654), a titular Royal Princess of Sweden.
On 15 March 1645, Maria Euphrosyne was engaged to the Queen's favorite Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie, and on 7 March 1647, she married him in the Royal Chapel of Tre Kronor (castle) in Stockholm. The marriage was arranged by Christina.

IX t Katharina Charlotte (1655–1697)
⚭ 1682 Graf Otto Wilhelm von Königsmarck (1639–1688)
Gräfin Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (* 18. März 1654/55; † 15. September 1697) war die Ehefrau des venezianischen Generalissimus und Kriegshelden Otto Wilhelm Graf von Königsmarck, den sie am 9. Februar 1682 heiratete. EOL

IX u Ebba Hedwig (1659–1700)
⚭ 1684 Graf Karl Gustav Oxenstierna (1655–1686)

X r Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (1655–1697), gift 1682 med greve Otto Wilhelm Königsmarck; barnlös

X s Hedvig Ebba De la Gardie (1657–1700), gift 1684 med greve Carl Gustaf Oxenstierna af Södermöre; en son som avled barnlös.

VIII m Eleonora Catherine (17 May 1626 - 3 March 1692); married Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege.
The negotiations concerning her marriage with Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege, son of Maurice, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, started in 1643. The landgrave was a second cousin of both her parents and nine years her senior. The negotiation process was difficult, but finally completed in June 1646. She was granted a fortune of 20,000 gulden by her father. The marriage took place at Tre Kronor in Stockholm on 6 September 1646.

IX v Christine (b. Kassel, 30 October 1649 – d. Bevern, 18 March 1702), married in 1667 to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Bevern.
Christine von Hessen (30 October 1648 – 18 March 1702) was a German noblewoman, belonging to the Hessen-Eschwege branch of the Hessen-Rotenburg line of the House of Hesse. Through her marriage on 25 November 1667 in Eschwege to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1636-1687), she became Duchess-Consort of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel-Bevern. EOL

IX w Juliana (b. Eschwege, 14 May 1652 – d. IJsselstein, 20 June 1693), prospective bride of Charles XI of Sweden; married in 1680 Johann Jakob Marchand, Baron of Lilienburg.
Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege (14 May 1652 – 20 June 1693) was a German noblewoman. In her teens she was brought up at the Swedish royal court as the future queen of King Charles XI of Sweden, her cousin. However, on two occasions before the wedding Juliana became pregnant, and the engagement was eventually broken off. In 1679 or 1680, Juliana married a Dutchman and lived the rest of her life in the Netherlands, while Charles XI married Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark in 1680.
[I'll count the affair as a possible first marriage, so, she was between 19-20 and 27-28 when she married: low count 19, high count 28,]

X t Eleonora (4 May 1683, IJsselstein – after 22 November 1707, Bremen?), married on 21 October 1704 in IJsselstein Mr. Johan Spiering (6 November 1672, Utrecht – 22 July 1739, Amsterdam), son of Francois Ewoutsz. Spiering and Elisabeth Maria van Someren

X u Juliana (baptised 4 May 1684, IJsselstein – 24 November 1726, Jever), married in 1707 Ulrich Friedrich von Weltzien, Herr von Blexersande

IX x Charlotte (b. Eschwege, 3 September 1653 – d. Bremen, 7 February 1708), married firstly in 1673 with Prince August of Saxe-Weissenfels (son of Duke August) and secondly in 1679 with John Adolph, Count of Bentheim-Tecklenburg (divorced 1693).
On 25 August 1673 in Halle, he married Charlotte, the daughter of Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege from his marriage to Countess Palatine Eleonora Catherine of Zweibrücken, the daughter of John Casimir, Count Palatine of Kleeburg. After August's death, Charlotte married Count John Adolph of Bentheim-Tecklenburg, from whom she later divorces. EOL

VI q Christine (29 June 1543 – 13 May 1604), married in Gottorp on 17 December 1564 to Adolf, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp.

VII l Sophia (1 June 1569 – 14 November 1634), married on 17 February 1588 to John VII, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL

VII m Christina (13 April 1573 – 8 December 1625), married on 27 August 1592 to King Charles IX of Sweden.

VIII n Maria Elizabeth (10 March 1596– 7 August 1618), married her first cousin John, Duke of Östergötland, youngest son of John III of Sweden
On 29 November 1612, at the age of sixteen, Princess Maria Elizabeth celebrated her wedding to the Duke of Ostrogothia in the royal palace Tre Kronor in Stockholm.
.... The royal couple ruled quite independently in their Duchy. John had the right to issue new laws, and Maria Elizabeth evidently had influence on his rule. During the six years they lived together in Ostrogothia, a witch hunt was conducted in the duchy, for which they, and Maria Elizabeth in particular, are considered to be responsible. EOL

VII n Anna (27 February 1575 – 24 April 1625), married 28 January 1598 to Count Enno III of Ostfriesland.
On 28 January 1598, she married Count Enno III of Ostfriesland, elder son of Count Edzard II of Ostfriesland and his wife Princess Katarina of Sweden, eldest daughter of King Gustav I of Sweden

VIII o Anna Maria, Countess of Ostfriesland (1601–1633), married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658)
Anna Maria of Ostfriesland (23 June 1601 – 15 February 1634) was a German noblewoman.
On 4 September 1622 she married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658).

IX y Anna Maria of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1 July 1627 – 11 December 1669), married Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels (ancestors of George III of the United Kingdom).
On 23 November 1647, in Schwerin, Anna Maria married Augustus, second surviving son of Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony, and moved with her husband to Halle, the main city of his domains as Administrator of the Archbishopric of Magdeburg. During her marriage, she bore twelve children, including three daughters who died in infancy in 1663

X v Magdalene Sibylle (b. Halle, 2 September 1648 - d. Gotha, 7 January 1681), married on 14 November 1669 to Duke Frederick I of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg.

XI e Anna Sophie (b. Gotha, 22 December 1670 – d. Rudolstadt, 28 December 1728), married on 15 October 1691 to Louis Frederick I, Prince of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.

XII e Princess Anna Sophie of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt (9 September 1700 – 11 December 1780)[1] was a Princess of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.
On 2 January 1723 in Rudolstadt, she married Franz Josias, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld.

XIII b Princess Charlotte Sophie of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 September 1731 – Schwerin, 2 August 1810); married on 13 May 1755 Duke Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

XIII c Princess Friederike Caroline of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 June 1735 – Schloß Schwaningen, 18 February 1791), married on 22 November 1754 Karl Alexander, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach.

XI f Dorothea Marie (b. Gotha, 22 January 1674 – d. Meiningen, 18 April 1713), married on 19 September 1704 to Ernst Ludwig I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen.

XII f Luise Dorothea (b. Meiningen, 7 December 1710 d. Gotha, 22 October 1771) married on 17 September 1729 to Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg EOL

XI g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 24 March 1675 – d. Karlsbad, 28 May 1709), married on 25 May 1702 to Johann August, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. EOL

XI h Johanna (b. Gotha, 1 October 1680 – d. Strelitz, 9 July 1704), married on 20 June 1702 to Adolf Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. EOL

X w Sophie (b. Halle, 23 June 1654 - d. Zerbst, 31 March 1724), married on 18 June 1676 to Karl, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst.

XI i Magdalena Augusta (1679–1740), Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst married Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg
Princess Magdalena Augusta of Anhalt-Zerbst (13 October 1679 – 11 October 1740) was, by birth, a Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst and, by marriage, a Duchess of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. She was the maternal grandmother of George III of the United Kingdom.
In 1696, Magdalena Augusta married her first cousin, Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, who had become Duke in 1691.

XII g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 17 July 1715 – d. Langensalza, 12 May 1775), married on 27 November 1734 to Johann Adolf II, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels.

XII h Augusta (b. Gotha, 30 November 1719 – d. Carlton House, 8 February 1772), married on 8 May 1736 to Frederick, Prince of Wales. They had 9 children; their second child later became King George III of Great Britain.

X x Christine (b. Halle, 25 August 1656 - d. Eutin, 27 April 1698), married on 21 June 1676 to August Friedrich of Holstein-Gottorp, Prince-Bishop of Lübeck (son of Frederick III, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, and his wife Duchess Marie Elisabeth of Saxony). No issue. EOL

V l Magdalena of Saxony (7 March 1507 – 25 January 1534); married on 6 November 1524 to Joachim Hector, then Electoral Prince of Brandenburg.

VI r Barbara of Brandenburg, Duchess of Brieg (1527–1595), had issue
Barbara of Brandenburg (10 August 1527 – Brzeg, 2 January 1595), was a German princess member of the House of Hohenzollern She was a Margravine of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage a Duchess of Brieg (Brzeg).
In 1537 Barbara was betrothed to George (later George II the Pious), second son of Duke Frederick II of Legnica as a part of the alliance signed between her father and Frederick II.[1] The wedding took place eight years later, on 15 February 1545 in her homeland, Berlin.

13 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18 18 18
12 13 13 14 14 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18
01 02 03 04 10 11 12 13 14 22 23 26 27 31 32 34 35

18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 22 23 23 23 24 24 24 25 25 25
18 18 18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 23 23 23 23 24 24 24 25
43 44 47 48 53 54 59 60 64 65 68 69 70 77 78 80 81 86 87 88 91 92 95 96 97 99 00

[the following = above 100]

26 26 27 27 27 27 28 28 28
25 26 26 26 27 27 27 28 28
01 02 03 08 09 10 11 12 14

29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 34 37 38 38 40 45 48 63
28 29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 36 38 38 40 44 48 63
15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Minimum 12 or 13.
Lower Quartile, 17:18 or 18.
Median, 20 or 21.
Higher Quartile, 25:26 or 26.
Maximum 63.

This is pretty firmly placed in the Modern Ages, the medium year (I had 276 years instead of an expected 270, years of birth and of marriage of each) is 1598~1599.

In Modern Ages and some Protestant contexts, the age of marriage rises.

In all these genealogies, this is also the first one in which I saw a single pre-marital affair, that of Juliana, daughter of Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege, and, more importantly from our perspective, of his wife Eleonora Catherine of Palatinate Zweibrücken, who for this reason did not become queen consort of our King Charles XI. And this is precisely my problem with rising ages of marriage, it makes waiting till one is married harder and harder, and therefore promotes promiscuity. In some contexts that leads further to abortion, contraception, perversions.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Bibiana of Rome
Virgin and Martyr
2.XII.2023

Orthographe suédoise

Traduisons "que ne faisons-nous pas par pure serviabilité, parfois!"

Je suis cette orthographe ci:

"Hvad göra vi intet af ren hjelpsamhet, ibland?"

1870 et les années suivantes, en réaction à la guerre dano-allemande, on a voulu changer "gerna" (comme allemand "gerne") en "gärna" (comme danois "gærne").

"Hvad göra vi intet af ren hjälpsamhet, ibland?"

En 1888 est la dernière attestation que la négation de la phrase s'écrit comme un adverbe de quantité. Ensuite, ça s'écrit selon la prononciation, malgré l'usage contraire pour "mycket/mycke", "litet/lite", "något/någe".

"Hvad göra vi inte af ren hjälpsamhet, ibland?"

1906 un certain Fridtjuv Bergh demande et reçoit du roi un octroi de réforme d'orthographe.

"Vad göra vi inte av ren hjälpsamhet, ibland?"

Et, en 1950 le parlement suédois décide d'abolir les formes du pluriel des verbes, non usités dans la plupart des dialectes (notamment de la capitale) dans la langue parlé. Imaginez qu'on aurait aboli le passé simple en français:

"Vad gör vi inte av ren hjälpsamhet, ibland?"

La seule de ces réformes qui change la prononciation est cette dernière, parce qu'elle change la forme. Elle impose la forme parlée (qui ne l'est même pas dans tous les dialectes).

J'ai appris d'écrire cette dernière forme, et j'ai ensuite lu des livres en suédois du 19e S. et finalement changé mon orthographe en conformité avec ça. Imaginez un Russe ayant appris d'écrire Пётр (ou Пeтр) et qui ensuite l'écrit Пѣтръ ... si je me souviens bien la forme correcte ... que dirait-on de cette démarche? Eh oui : il serait bien contre cette réforme de 1917–18, et peut-être en détestation générale de la Révolution, mais peut-être aussi simplement ou accessoirement contre l'ingestion de l'état dans une question coutumière comme l'orthographe.

On dit parfois que la langue des années 1870 qui a changé le plus vite est le proto-indo-européen, pour cause, c'est une langue construite, et elle a changé sa construction au pas avec les changements de réconstruction des changements de phonèmes ou autres. Avis akvāsas ka - Owis ek’wōses-kʷe - Owis eḱwōskʷe - Owis ek’woi kʷe et j'en passe (avant que les laryngales rendent le titre imprononçable). Mais le suédois en à peu près le même temps s'est comporté comme si elle n'était pas la langue littéraire traditionelle d'une nation, mais une langue tout aussi construite que le proto-indo-européen de Schleicher, donc reconstruisable à volonté.

Quelle est la dernière fois que le suédois change orthographe pour des bonnes raisons, alors, selon moi? 1703, sous Charles XII, est réédité la Bible en suédois. Et pour la dernière fois on voit:

OCh Gudh sade: Warde Lius, och thet wardt lius. ... Och kallade liuset Dagh, och mörkret Natt.

J'écrirais la même phrase:

Och Gud sade: varde ljus, och det vart ljus ... och kallade ljuset dag och mörkret natt.

Que change? Les sons écrits en th, dh et gh disparaissent ou deviennent semblables en tous les cas aux sons écrits t, d, g, sauf quand pour certains pronoms et adverbes le th au lieu de devenir t devient d. Ce changement, et son réflexe en orthographe, marquent la différence entre suédois moderne archaïque et suédois moderne récent. Et quelques autres, moins nécessaires, mais que j'accepte pour ne pas écrire "thola" au lieu de "tola" (de nos jours souvent écrit "tåla", comme "fogel/fågel" et malgré les mots "son" et "kol").

Pour w / v, on utilise souvent w en livres imprimés en gothique allemande et v dans ceux qui le sont en antiqua.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Bibl. Audoux
St. Ignace de Loyola
31.VII.2019

Swedish and English

English has had two basic systems of spelling/pronunciation.

The Old English or Anglo-Saxon one was bequeathed by Alcuin of York to the pronunciation of Latin in Church and administration in what was then known as Francia. This means France, Switzerland, Northern Italy down to Papal States or "Donatio Constantini", Austria, excepting Burgenland, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Benelux, much of Germany, Slovenia, Northern Spain (maybe as far south as the border between Galicia and Portugal, but no further). It was a one letter one sound system, in which "man" was actually spelled "man" or "mon", thus probably pronounced with "a" of "father", but if system had been taken into service today the word would have been spelled "mæn".

We skip the spelling of Ormmulum as being an experiment with neither prequel nor sequel. It was used in exactly one poem, by a poet named "Ormm" (hence the name) and it is a headache for English language students.

The other (or, counting Ormmulum, third) spelling system was the one that Chaucer and his contemporaries got from France. Not Francia, in that older sense, but France. It has still the task of transposing English sounds to English letters.

OK, it has shifted in values, but it is clearly closer to French than to Old English. Hous for Hus. Dutee for Dyte (if the word had been used before the Old spelling was disused). Holy for Halig. Yard for Geard. Also, single words have shifted in spelling - which happened in French or Swedish too. When "roy" was no longer pronounced as in English "royal" but as "rwè", "Swessons" was respelled "Soissons". Later all words with "wè" became "wa"/"wuh", both "roi" and "Soissons". Rail and rale - both loan words from French - have same pronunciation in English, so rale is now usually spelled like rail. But Chaucerian spelling system remains the basis.

Swedish spelling, not unlike German, hankers back to the system that Alcuin bequeathed to the continent. Like English after Chaucer and like French it has changed both by gliding - å denoted long a but became a sound like "aw" in Modern English - and by respelling: "thola" was respelled "tåla" as the "o" sound was swamped into the "å"-spellings, and as the sounds "th, dh, gh" were replaced by and respelled as "t, d, g" - or sometimes "th" as "d", "gh" as "j". The limit is known to be the Bible of King Charles XII - it was really a respelled reprint of the Bible of Gustaf Wasa - and that means it was before 1718. "Jagh vill eigh thåla slagh medh thin värghja" became "jag vill ej tåla slag med din värja".

The Swedish system - before and after Bible of Charles XII - has this connexion with Ormmulum system that long vowels are followed by single consonants, short ones by double consonants.

I will give now give the Lord's Prayer as it was pronounced in Stockholm or Helsinki, respelled with the Chaucer system - because that is closer to English - and with the Classic Swedish spelling. The modern Swedish spelling differs from the Classic as Theodore Rossevelt's English from Tolkien's.

Fader vår som är i himmelen:	Fader woar som ear y himmelen:
helgadt varde ditt namn;	helgat waarde dit namn;
tillkomme oss ditt rike;	tilcomme os dit rike;
ske din vilja, såsom i himmelen så ock på jorden;	shee din wilya, soasom y himmelen soa oc poa yoorden;
vårt dagliga bröd gif oss idag;	woart daaglia breu yiiv os idaa;
förlåt oss våra skulder, såsom ock vi förlåta dem oss skyldiga äro;	feurloat os woara scoulder soasom oc wii feurloata dom os shuldia1 earo;
och inled oss icke i frestelse;	oc inleed os icke y frestelse;
utan frels oss ifrån ondo. Amen.	outan frels os ifroan ondo. Amen.

I cannot recommend Sweden to adopt my Chaucerian respelling of Swedish. The real word "uthärdlig" would be respelled "outheardly" which is too close to the opposite real word, "outhärdlig" ("bearable" vs "unbearable") which in turn it would be clumsy to spell "ooutheardly". Nevertheless it may be used as a kind of phonetic script for English learners. "Churca" as "kyrka", "houset" as "huset", which looks closer to English, what English words do you think they are? Respelling translates maybe half or a third of the words.

The examples "kyrka", "huset" (Alcuinian, real Swedish) for "churca", "houset" (Chaucer respelling Swedish) gives us historical vowels y/u vs u/ou. Y corresponding to English U is pronounced as French u or German ü, whether long or short. U corresponding to English OU - well, both languages it started out as French ou, Mn English oo, and in English it stayed so when short but became the diphthong of German AU when long. In Sweden it is when short the vowel of "girl", but shorter, but when long an ü followed by a w-glide (Stockholm) or like a vowel halfway between oo and ü (Helsinki)². Finns - the main ethnicity of Helsinki - who have learned Swedish badly often pronounce it "oo".

Swedish "beder", contracted "be'r" still has the same vowel as Chaucer's "bedeth", but in English ee (written e in open stressed syllables) was changed into ii (and what had been that was first changed into @i, ai - "like" pronounced "laik" or - on Martha's Vineyard - "l@ik") and mostly old ææ too, but in Irish accent of English old ææ - "great" - and anywhere young ææ previously æ or aa (depending on whether lengthening or fronting came first) - "name" - became the new ee or ey.

Swedish "sot" and English "soot" have the same vowel - actually longer in Swedish: a short vowel in our language would, according to Ormmulum spelling principles, have to have two consonants or a doubled consonant written after it. Former long a - written å - has now the vowel sound of oa/aw which was previously the vowel in "soot" but is now the vowel in "oars"="åror". Before it had had the sound of modern "fader"="father", but originally that word had a short vowel.

"Sk" is pronounced "sc" before broad vowels ("scoulder" for "skulder" above, it means debts or trespasses or "guilts" - if there were a word meaning instances of being guilty) - but before slender ones it is pronounced "sh" more or less, in Finland totally so, in Sweden a bit otherwise. Thus "guilty" is "skyldig" pronounce "shuldy" (remember: u=Fr u, as back in Chaucer's time). This sound is also spelled "sj" as in "sjel" ("soul"), "sjö" ("lake", not "sea"!) "sju" ("seven") or "skj" - "skjuta"="shoot", "skjorta"="shirt".

Also in Finland you find a real English "ch" - which again is pronounced otherwises in Sweden. "K" before slender vowels - "kyrka"="church", also "kj" - "kjol"="skirt, petticoat", also "tj" - "tjern"="pond, little lake", "tjugo"="twenty".

In Stockholm and Malmö tj/kj/k is purely fricative, more like German ich-laut. Equally in Stockholm and Malmö sj/skj/sk is like a weak German ach-laut hidden by a Scottish "wh" (you will ask someone if you ever get there, or if a Swede gets over to you).

In Helsinki and Malmö "rs" is pronounced as two sounds - Italian "r" in Helsinki, French "r" in Malmö, but in Stockholm they are rather pronounced as one sound - the exact English "sh". Practise to say "kors" in the three dialects. It means "cross". So English "sh" does not exist in Malmö, is pronunciation of "rs" in Stockholm and of "sj/skj/sk" in Helsinki. Despite exactly same pronunciation, words with the "rs" in Stockhlom can hardly be mistaken for words with "sj" etc in Helsinki, since "rs" is never and "sj" etc always word-initial or stem-initial.

In Denmark, it is "sj" that you pronounce like ich-laut, more or less. "kj" and "k" before slender vowels are a "k" followed by a weak ich-laut. "Sjeldent stor kjærlighed" - but Danish is not Swedish anyway.³

You might have noticed that Swedish "j" is never "dj" but always "y" in Swedish (if I gave any examples in my respelling beside the real one). However "dj" as in "didj" can be heard in Finland - when they pronounce "g" before slender vowels ("göra" - make or do), or "gj" ("gjort" - made or done) or "dj" ("djur" - as German "Tier" it means beast, irrational animal) - so in my fake Chaucerian respelling of Swedish these words would be "yeura, yoort, your" for Stockholm, Malmö, but "djeura, djoort, djour" for Helsinki.

German "sch", English "sh", French "j" or "ge" are spelled as in original language, but pronounced as the "sj" sound: "die Dusche, the shawl, le juste dans la loge" (if there is such a one, it could be the "loge" in the theatre, not a Masonic one) in Swedish give "duschen, shalen, den juste i logen".

I will not end on a purely linguistic note.⁴ Let us get on - or rather back - to the poets.

Atterbom is mainly known for Fogel Blå and Lycksalighetens Ö (Bird Blue and Isle of Bliss), both being versified fairy tale dramas in the style of Tieck. I already noted the fifth act of Isle of Bliss, where Father Time triumphs over Astolf who, having failed in his duties to his country and his former fiancée through no fault of his own - he thought he had absented 3 months, and it was three hundred years, she was dead and so was monarchy - tries to return to his fairy bride in his fairy land exile. She on her hand, dying from grief, is returned to Heaven as a Goddess, now obeying her mother Nyx - who had predicted the grief. Her maidservants get on to Astolf's country and become the Muses in the mortal lands. It is interesting that Atterbom must have known that "Queen of the Night" is the misguided person / personification to be overthrown in The Magic Flute and yet in his own drama Nyx is finally right. How so, "he must have known"? His given names were Per Daniel, but he added Amadeus out of admiration for Mozart, just as did Ernst Theodor Hoffmann.

Somehow I have a feeling that John Ronald Reuel Tolkien must have read Atterbom's Isle of Bliss, he certainly knew the tale from Andrew Lang's collection, anyway. Which is also where probably Atterbom got it and Bird Blue from. He also wrote two sets - quite symbolic - on the Flowers.

Nicander is less subtle and symbolic. His dramas are set in the then contemporary Grece under the Turks or in Sweden back during St Ansgar's Mission. Or - alas - in the prison where the last Hohenstauffer Prince Enzio cursed or lamented the victory of the Popes (yes, Nicander was a Protestant, and he saw the Stauffers as "Proto-Protestants" insofar as political enemies of Papacy).

Either way, reading Atterbom and still liking him, or reading Nicander, admiring him much then, but regretting it later, partly, I took in lots of early to mid 19th C. spelling - as is also the case when I had the Swedish Latin dictionary by Cavallin, during my Latin studies in Lund.

And I guessed - rightly - that lots of Swedes (not all, and I do not write for all, but for more like a congenial audience), would find it as easy as I. Some who did not, or who pretended not to, have pretended my Swedish is incomprehensible - perhaps it is to them, but so are many of my positions. I am not a fan of P. C. Jersild, find him unreadable due to content, not language. I do not expect him and perhaps even less some of his fans to find me readable. He is also part of the ultimately rather Marxist Swedish Humanist Association.

So, that is one group where I do not count on getting my readers ... whatever the spelling I use. Unlike clothing, where I can signal a Medieval or Pre-Modern position directly by some Medieval / Renaissance clothing items, I would really and truly be not understood if I tried using the Swedish of that time, much further from today's than Chaucer's is from today's English - but going as early as can be understood, well, if it coincides with early years or decades of "modernity", that is so to speak the shift in culture I am adressing, as a disaster.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterr UL
St. Raymond Nonnatus
31.VIII.2018



1) "skyldiga" - earlier "skyldigha" - in Stockholm at least the former "-igha" is pronounced "-iya" despite being written "-iga". Item for "dagliga" earlier "daghligha". upp
2) Liverpudlian "oo" is right between the two pronunciations of "u", Stockholm and Helsinki. upp
3) More or less as close to Swedish as Scots is to English. I think so, at least. upp
4) Only add that in nearly all Swedish dialects -Helsinki, Stockholm, Malmö included - "w" and "v" of my respelling have the same sound, i e "v". A few at least in 19th C. still distinguished them. "W" was written either "v" or "hv" (corresponding to English "w/wh": "white"="hvit"), "v" either "f" (after a vowel or l or r) or "fv" (between vowel/l/r and vowel). Modern spelling level all to written "v" ("hvar var kalfven?" becoming "var var kalven") but does nothing like it for the other homophone allographs.upp
5) "Pater Hieronymus" being far closer to Ravaillac than to Ravaillac's confessors.
6) It was the model for Napoleon's 18th of Brumaire, by the way.
7) Modern spelling for "lof" is "lov": it means "praise", but also permission ("du har intet lof att spela kort om penningar"="you are not allowed to play cards about money") and even "vacation" as in "sommarlof"="summer holidays".

Rydberg, Chesterton and Tolkien

As a Swede, I have several Christmasses been hearing and some of them singing Victor Rydberg's star of Bethlehem poem, and will quote one line, which in light of the following suggests either Chesterton knew Swedish (though I have no other indications thereof) or that true minds think alike (a saying sometimes misattributed as about "great minds").

Stjärnan från Betlehem leder ej bort, men hem.

The star from Bethlehem leads, not away (from home), but home.

So thought Chesterton:

For men are homesick in their homes,
And strangers under the sun,
And they lay on their heads in a foreign land
Whenever the day is done.
Here we have battle and blazing eyes,
And chance and honour and high surprise,
But our homes are under miraculous skies
Where the yule tale was begun.

But the same poem also has a Tolkien connection:

This world is wild as an old wives’ tale,
And strange the plain things are,
The earth is enough and the air is enough
For our wonder and our war;
But our rest is as far as the fire-drake swings
And our peace is put in impossible things
Where clashed and thundered unthinkable wings
Round an incredible star.

You recall a dialogue between Eomer and Aragorn? I do.

“Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?'

A man may do both,' said Aragorn. 'For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!”

J.R.R. Tolkien > Quotes > Quotable Quote / J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/63484-do-we-walk-in-legends-or-on-the-green-earth

There is another connection between Rydberg and Tolkien : trying to search "leder ej bort, men hem" on wiki, I came across Swedish translations of The Hobbit.

This is obviously an excuse for a triple recommendation:

• Read Tolkien - all of him
• Read Chesterton - all of him, and right now the whole of the cited Christmas poem, on a blog by a fellow Chestertonian
• If you know Swedish, read Rydberg's Christmas poem. Even if you don't, enjoy the music.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Holy Martyr and ex-Prefect
St Flavian, husband of
St Dafrosa, parents of virgins Sts Bibiana and
Demetria, all of these also martyrs*
22.XII.2017

PS, I had nearly forgotten who composed the poem to music - but it is Alice Tegnér. Very famous in Sweden.

* Item Romae sancti Flaviani Expraefecti, viri beatae Martyris Dafrosae atque patris beatarum Virginum et Martyrum Bibianae ac Demetriae; qui, sub Juliano Apostata, pro Christo inscriptione damnatus, et ad Aquas Taurinas, in Etruria, in exsilium missus, illic in oratione spiritum Deo reddidit.

Medieval women married when?

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Medieval women married when? · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere :... on Jailbait Now (Some States), Legal Back Then

I was taking two Nordic examples and to each adding wikiwise knowable relatives, not too far back or on, namely St Bridget of Vadstena (outside Sweden mostly known as St Bridget of Sweden) and Queen Margaret of the Three Kingdoms (or of Kalmar Union).

I started out with Swedish articles, since I believed it would be hard to find some of these in non-Swedish and non-Scandinavian, including English, articles. I am leaving Swedish and Danish text as a bonus for those knowing the languages, while resuming age relevant data in English after each such. If no resumé follows, age is not deducible from Swedish material.

Let's start with St Bridget:

I-1 Birgitta Birgersdotter, även känd som Heliga Birgitta, född omkring 1303 förmodligen i Finsta, Uppland, död 23 juli 1373 i Rom, Kyrkostaten, var en svensk katolsk predikant, författarinna, teolog samt ordens- och klostergrundare av Birgittinorden.

Några år senare, vid omkring tretton års ålder, giftes hon mot sin vilja bort med den artonårige Ulf Gudmarsson. Hon ville säkert hellre leva som jungfru och lyckades också övertala sin make att de första åren leva i avhållsamhet, men därefter födde hon åtta barn. Makarna bodde under dessa år på Ulfåsa vid sjön Boren i Östergötland.

Married 13 (1316), oldest (live?) child at 16 (1319).

II-1 Märta Ulfsdotter, född omkring 1319, död 1371, var en svensk hovdam. Hon var som hovmästarinna ansvarig för drottning Margaretas uppfostran och undervisning.

Her oldest son of first marriage, date of birth not mentioned. But she had two children with her first husband who died 1345 - when she was 26.

Her oldest daughter of second marriage was:

III-1 Ingegerd Knutsdotter, född 1356, död 1412; abbedissa i Vadstena kloster 1388-1403 - and as abbess, she was not married.

Next daughter:

III-2 Katarina Knutsdotter, död cirka 1412, hovmästarinna hos Filippa av England 1412 (Philippa of England being an English princess but Swedish Queen).

No marriage mentioned.

III-3 Ingrid Knutsdotter - neither articles, nor dates.

II-2 Cecilia Ulvsdotter, födelseår okänt, död 12 mars 1399 i Vadstena kloster, var en medlem av det svenska frälset, dotter till heliga Birgitta och en figur i Birgittalegenden. Nun, no date of marriage therefore.

Back before St Bridget?

Her mother was second wife of Birger Perssons, and she is given no birthyear and has no article of her own. However, back to St Bridget's generation, her sister:

I-2 Katarina Birgersdotter. Hennes födelse- och dödsår är okända, men hon omtalas som minderårig 14 mars 1315.

Hon vigdes före 20 september 1316 med Magnus Gudmarsson (Ulvåsaätten).

She had a daughter, Ingeborg:

II-3 Ingeborg Magnusdotter, född ca 1327, och dotter till Magnus Gudmarsson (Ulvåsaätten) och Katarina Birgersdotter (Finstaätten) och systerdotter till heliga Birgitta. Begravdes 1390 28/6 i Vadstena kloster (E). Ägde jord i Norra Vedbo härad (F).

No date of marriage given.

Here, I, II, III mark generations from St Bridget to that of grand daughters. 1, 2 etc mark persons mentioned in each generation. My own way of dealing with this. For next, I will be using a more traditional Sosa-Stradonitz marking. 1 = the peson herself, 2 = her father, 3 = her mother, anyone's father = 2*own number, anyone's mother 2*own number+1. Adding n:n for children, greatgrandchildren etc. and numbering them in each generation either lower case Roman if children of someone marked with Arabic, or in Arabic if children to someone numbered in lower case Roman numerals: and children of the person marked in order of birth.

So, now to Queen Margaret:

1) Queen Margaret (of three Kingdoms).

Margareta Valdemarsdotter föddes våren 1353 på Søborg på norra Själland som dotter till kung Valdemar Atterdag och hans hustru drottning Helvig av Slesvig. Hennes äldre syster Ingeborg Valdermarsdotter var gift med hertig Henrik Bödeln av Mecklenburg och hertiginna av Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

I januari 1359 trolovades Margareta med den norske kungen Håkan Magnusson, som 1362 blev kung i Sverige och samtidigt medregent med sin far Magnus Eriksson. Vigseln ägde rum den 9 april 1363 på Köpenhamns slott. - Betrothed at six, formally married at 10, very obviously not consumed yet, bears her only child in ... I början av december 1370 födde Margareta sitt enda barn, Olof, som i maj 1376 valdes till kung i Danmark efter sin morfar, Valdemar Atterdag som dött i oktober 1375.

So, she was 17 when bearling Olof.

2) King Valdemar Atterdag
3) Helvig av Slesvig - married King Valdemar in 1340, no birthdate given.

Daughter other than Queen Margaret:

3:iii Ingeborg Valdemarsdotter (1347-1370), gift med hertig Henrik Bödeln av Mecklenburg (1337/1338-1383)

Ingeborg Valdemarsdotter, född 1 april 1347, död före 16 juni 1370, hertiginna av Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

Ingeborg fick överta äldre systern Margaretas tilltänkte make hertig Henrik Bödeln av Mecklenburg (1337/1338–1383) efter Margaretas död 1350. Ett bröllopskontrakt mellan Ingeborg och Henrik upprättades i Dornburg 23 oktober 1350. - marital contract in 1350, when she was 3 (!)

Ingeborg och Henrik gifte sig sedan före 3 juni 1362. - Married before this date in 1362, when she was 15 and a few months.

No article about her oldest daughter and her husband, here is about her second daughter:

3:iii:2 Maria av Mecklenburg (1363/1365–1402/1403), gift med hertig Vartislav VII av Pommern (stupad 1394/1395)

Maria av Mecklenburg, född någon gång mellan 1363 och 1367, men troligen senast 1365, död efter 13 maj 1402, var en hertiginna av Pommern. - Birth dates vary between 1363 and 1367, they say probably latest 1365.

Hon gifte sig 1380, före 23 mars, med hertig Vratislav VII av Pommern (stupad 1394 eller 1395) och fick med honom sonen Bogislav (född omkring 1382, död 1459), mer känd som den nordiske unionskungen Erik av Pommern, och dottern Katarina (född omkring 1390, död 1426), gift med pfalzgreve Johan av Pfalz (född omkring 1383, död 1443). Maria var även eventuell arvtagare till sin moster, den nordiska unionsdrottningen Margareta.

- Married early in 1380. Meaning, if she was born even a bit later in 1365, she was (oh, horror to the Nordic feminists!) just 14, and if she was born in 1367, she was 13 or just 12 and some.

She had, besides Erik of Pomerania a daughter too:

3:iii:2:ii dottern Katarina (född omkring 1390, död 1426), gift med pfalzgreve Johan av Pfalz (född omkring 1383, död 1443).

Katarina av Pommern, född omkring 1390, död i Gnadenberg den 12 mars 1426, var en pommersk furstinna, gift grevinna av Pfalz. - Born AROUND 1390.

Katarina gifte sig i Ribe den 15 augusti 1407 med pfalzgreve Johan av Pfalz (omkring 1383-1443). - Married at 17 or AROUND that date.

Paret fick följande barn: Kristofer av Bayern (1416-1448), nordisk unionskung - the one child named after 9 years of marriage.

4) Kristofer II
5) Eufemia av Pommern Eufemia av Pommern, född 1285, död 26 juli 1330, var en dansk drottning, gift 1300, 1306 eller 1307 med kung Kristofer II av Danmark (r. 1320–1326, 1329–1332). - Queen Margaret's paternal grandmother was married any age between 15 and 22.

6) Erik 2. af Sønderjylland (ca. 1288 – 12. marts 1325)
7) Erik 2. giftede sig i 1313 med Adelheid Heinrichsdatter af Holsten-Rendsborg (død januar 1350). - Marital age cannot be determined, since birthdate is not given on article about husband (she has none of her own)

8) Erik Klipping, Erik V Kristoffersson, född 1249, död 22 november 1286, var kung av Danmark 1259-1286. Han var son till sin företrädare kung Kristofer I (död 1259) och Margareta Sambiria av Pommerellen (död 1282).
9) Agnes av Brandenburg, drottning av Danmark och Danmarks regent som sonens förmyndare 1286-93, född 1257/1258, död 29 september 1304, begravd i Ringsted. Dotter till markgreve Johan I av Brandenburg (död 1266/1267) och Jutta av Sachsen (död 1287).

Born 57/58.

Agnes gifte sig första gången den 11 november 1273 i Schleswig med kung Erik V Kristoffersson av Danmark (1249-1286), mer känd som Erik Klipping.

Married 11.XI.1273, at, obviously, 16 or 15. Her husband was 8 years older. Her first son was not Christopher II, but his older brother:

Erik Menved (1274-1319), kung Erik VI Eriksson av Danmark - born 1274, year after marriage, which must therefore have been immediately consummated or within very few months. At 15 or even more 16, unlike 12, there was hardly any need to hesitate.

10) Bogislaw IV (Polish: Bogusław IV; died 19 February 1309 or 24 February 1309), of the Griffins dynasty, was Duke of Pomerania for thirty years.
11) He firstly married Matilda of Brandenburg-Stendal, daughter of John I, Margrave of Brandenburg. He married secondly Margarete of Rügen, daughter of Wizlaw II, Prince of Rügen. His children from his second marriage were:

And no birthdate or marital date for Margarete of Rügen are given. Euphemia was however her oldest daughter and child, born 1285, as said. Her father:

22) Vitslav II (c. 1240 – 1302), variously called Vislav, Vizlav, Wislaw, Wizlaw and Witslaw in English sources (German: Wizlaw II) was a prince of Rügen.

1285-1240 = 45 years for two generations. Actually, his article mentions that Margaret (born around 1270/71 – died 1318), married 1284 Duke Bogislaw IV of Pomerania-Wolgast.

Meaning, Margaret of Rügen was 15 or 14 when her daughter Euphemia was born.

12-15 no results.

16) Kristofer I (danska: Christoffer I), född 1219, död 29 maj 1259, kung av Danmark från 1252. Yngste son till Valdemar Sejr och drottning Berengaria, bror till Erik Plogpenning och Abel. Gift med Margareta Sambiria av Pommerellen. 17) Margareta "Sambiria" av Pommerellen, född 1230/1234, död 1 december 1282, var drottning av Danmark som gift med Kristofer I av Danmark (1219—1259), och Danmarks regent mellan 1259 och 1266 som förmyndare för sin son Erik V Klipping. Som regent fick hon tillnamnet "Spränghäst" och "Svarta Grete" på grund av sin viljestyrka och energi.

Dotter till Mechtild av Mecklenburg och Sambor II av Pommerellen, gift 1248 med Kristofer I av Danmark (1219—1259). - In other words, she was married between 14 and 18. And as her son was born next year (see 8!) marriage was immediately consumed.

18) Johan I av Brandenburg (tyska: Johann I. von Brandenburg), född omkring år 1213, död 4 april 1266, var tillsammans med sin bror Otto III av Brandenburg markgreve av Markgrevskapet Brandenburg i det Tysk-romerska riket från år 1220 till sin död 1266. 19) Jutta av Sachsen, född omkring 1240, död 23 december 1287. Dotter till hertig Albrekt I av Sachsen och Agnes av Thüringen (död före 1247). Jutta blev markgrevinna av Brandenburg i sitt 1255 ingångna äktenskap med markgreve Johan I av Brandenburg (död 1266/1267) och mor till danska drottning Agnes av Brandenburg.

Married AROUND 15. Daughter "9) Agnes av Brandenburg" born two to three years later. No other - or earlier - children mentioned in article. If you don't prefer to call it a stub.

20) Barnim I the Good (c. 1217/1219 – 13 November 1278) from the Griffin dynasty was a Duke of Pomerania (ducis Slauorum et Cassubie) from 1220 until his death. 21) "Between 1253 and 1254, Barnim I married secondly with Margareta (b. aft. 1231 - d. bef. 27 May 1261), probably a daughter of Nicholas I, Lord of Werle and member of the House of Mecklenburg,[4][5] although other sources identified her as a daughter of Otto the Child, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg. Historian Robert Klempin identified her as the widow of Vitslav I, Prince of Rügen, but this seems very doubtful from a chronological view.[6] They had one son: Bogislaw IV (b. bef. 1258 - d. 19 February 1309), co-ruler from 1276 and sole ruler after his father's death, sharing power with his younger half-brothers."

1253
1232
0011

1254
1232
0012

In other words, the mother of Boleslaw (10) was at most 12, and marriage was fruitful with him within at most 5 years.

22) Vitslav II (c. 1240 – 1302) ... as mentioned
23) Vitslav II married between 1263 and 1269 Agnes of Brunswick-Lüneburg, the daughter of Duke Otto I, the Child of Brunswick and Matilda of Brandenburg. The names of four sons and four daughters are known from the Vitslav's testament dated 27 December 1302: ...

But the age of Agnes of Brunswick-Lüneburg is not given.

So, let's resume:

Not mentioned if married - 2, before I lost count. Inapplicable (since monastic) - 2, before I lost count. Age not mentioned - 5, before I lost count. As is case with following more precise info too:

Married : 10 (formally), 12/16, 13, 15, 15/22, c.17

Oldest child : 14/18, 16, 17
Second daughter between 16 and 20,
Only (?) child around 26, at 35

Here I lost count. One thing is certain, the ancestors we had in the Middle Ages disagreed with today's Swedish feminists about whether it was normal or not to marry in early teens and get pregnant quick. Our ancestors thought so, even if they found it irksome especially bearing children, the feminists of today do not, irksome having become "undesirable" to them.* Our ancestors were Catholics, the feminists of today are Lutheran Modernists or at least as often clearly post-Christian (but not quite related to pre-Christian customs).

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St. Jean-Baptiste de LaSalle
15.V.2017

* Note that previous to Reformation, unlike in Muslim countries, "our daughters" also could get around the irksome stuff by either becoming nuns (which might involve the other irksome stuff called celibacy and chastity, of course), or fidgeting about marriage, or sheer luck, and also - but this might be same as with some Muslims - by agreeing to post-pone consummation. Once Reformation said all should marry, goodbye with those solutions to a large part of Europe!

On not trusting automatic translations!

On the status of a friend of a friend on FB, I found this:

Efter uppståndelsen var Jesus kropp förvandlad.Han kunde gå genom reglade dörrar, och han kunde aldrig mer dö. Hans kropp kunde inte åldras eller skadas.

Jesus var osårbar, ändå bar han sår.

In a distracted moment I clicked sth visible under it, and found it was a translation to French (it was on the FB account which I have in French).

Après l'excitation, le corps de Jésus s'est transformé. Il pourrait traverser les portes fermées, et il ne pouvait jamais mourir. Son corps ne peut pas devenir vieux ou endommagé.

Jésus était invulnérable, mais il a été blessé.

Uppståndelse is a Swedish word with two fairly distinct meanings both related to standing up.

It means, in the context here, a standing up of someone who was dead, i e a resurrection.

It also means when a lot of seated people hurry to stand up, which is a social excitation (not a mental solitary one), and is in certain political terms related to insurrection, however, the Swedish word does not get that far, it is a synonym for tumult, where English prefer the term commotion.

The actual Swedish word is a calque midway between resurrection and insurrection. Resurrection literally means "to stand up again", i e after lying down as a corpse. Insurrection literally means "to stand up on something", i e on a barricade (or simply on the floor on occasions where being seated is expected). Uppståndelse literally means "to stand up", and therefore only translates the part "surrectio" in the Latin base word. Hence, it translates both words into Swedish.

Now, instead of translating "efter uppståndelsen" with "after the Resurrection", the autotranslate has translated as "after the commotion".

In a way there is a kind of prophecy there, since the Descent into Hell or into Sheol and the ensuing Resurrection did involve quite a lot of commotion, joy for the souls who had been captive due to original sin, terror for the demons who were clearly "losing the grip" when these souls could no longer be confined in darkness. But for someone who didn't know Swedish, the translation is not immediately informative. If we don't believe the mistranslation (i e : if we don't trust this autotranslate) those of us who don't know Swedish but only French would be somewhat led astray if they didn't know Christian theology at least as much as main outline of Gospel story beforehand.

Le bon mot c'est "la Résurrection", pas "l'excitation".

This is not all.

• "... var Jesus kropp förvandlad," means "Jesus' body was transformed," (i e already from that moment of Resurrection, and so all the time after it)
  
  
  • "... le corps de Jésus s'est transformé" means "Jesus' body transformed itself/changed" (i e after that moment, with some delay and development)
    
    
  • better : "était transformé".
  
  
  
• "Han kunde gå genom reglade dörrar," means "he was" [in fact] "able to walk through locked doors".
  
  
  • "Il pourrait traverser les portes fermées," means "he would be able to walk through locked doors" [if and additional condition had been fulfilled.]
    
    
  • better : "il pouvait" etc.
  
  
  
• Skipping minor quibbles on tense useage.
  
  
• "Hans kropp kunde inte åldras eller skadas," means "His body could not age or be hurt."
  
  
  • "Son corps ne peut pas devenir vieux ou endommagé," means "His body cannot become old or damaged" - tense change is better theology, less good narrative, but chronologically speaking the Body of Christ is in fact 2017 years old this year, my friend's friend is speaking of the aging process, which stopped, He is anatomically 33, and it is not a piece of furniture where we speak of "damage", it is a living body where, prior to the resurrection, we speak of getting "hurt" or "wounded".
    
    
  • better : "Son corps ne pouvait pas vieillir ou être blessé".
  
  
  
• "Jesus var osårbar, ändå bar han sår," means "Jesus was invulnerable, yet he bore wounds". He was invulnerable from Resurrection on, and bore wounds from before it.
  
  
  • "Jésus était invulnérable, mais il a été blessé," means "Jesus was invulnerable, but he has been wounded" - as if it was a question of an invulnerability not quite working.
    
    
  • better : "Jésus était invulnérable, mais il portait ses blessures".

If a human translator had come up with this, I would have noted him "peut mieux faire". But a computer can't do any better. It has no understanding of meaning.

The words are translated by algorithms, and the more common use of "uppståndelsen" is "the commotion", so the computer translates, mechanically, the word with "l'excitation" even when "the commotion" was not not what the human writer meant. The computer cannot translate after probable meaning, since it has no idea at all about meaning.

One could program it to make an exception when Jesus is in the same sentence, but suppose a Swede were to say:

"När Jesus talade var uppståndelsen ofta stor bland fariseerna"

He would be, for Swedish, making a pun on the resurrection, but the accurate meaning of the words would be:

"When Jesus spoken the commotion was often great among the Pharisees".

And a computer programmed to translate "uppståndelsen" with "la Résurrection" each time Jesus occurred in the same sentence would now be getting this sentence wrong instead. AI is a myth, a misunderstanding of what computers do. It is not around the corner, it is a metaphysical impossibility.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St. Peter Canisius, S.J.
27.IV.2017

Quelle cours - hvilken klass/ring - what grade ?

Fr	Sv	Eng
Terminale	III	12
Première	II	11
Seconde	I	10
Troisième	9	9
Quatrième	8	8
Cinquième	7	7
Sixième	6	6
CM2/7e	5	5
CM1/8e	4	4
CE2/9e	3	3
CE1/10e	2	2
CP/11e	1	1

Avant les années 1950, et en particulier pendant l'entre-deux-guerres, les noms des différents niveaux étaient 7^e à 11^e . Innan femtiotalet, serskildt under mellankrigstiden voro de franska namnen på första fem klasserna 7:nde till 11:fte baklänges. Before the fifties, especially the Interwar Period, the names were 11th to 7th grade (counting backwards) in France.

Neesings ...

I suspected it might have been what Anglo-Saxons would have spelled "be sinum fneosungum leoht sceonaþ" or possibly "leoht leosaþ". But I am not sure (without looking up) whether "leosaþ" is cognate of German "lösen" (which does not fit)* or with Swedish "lysa" (which does), I even suspect it is lösen. Now English has two words from fneosan - neese and sneeze. First neese by elimination of f and then sneese (later sneeze) by strengthening of it to a more strident consonant. There is a similar couple in Swedish - fnysa and nysa. Since we had English missionaries in the tenth C, it could be a doublet of loan words.

Now, nysa and sneeze mean the same thing. It is the involuntary explosion of breath after itching in the nose. Like when you have a cold. Or take too much mustard or horseradish.

So I wonder whether fnysa and neese might also mean the same thing - the kind of voluntary or semivoluntary violent breath from nose which denotes anger or irritation. When it comes to horses being eager or angry, we say "fnysa" in Swedish. The fact is I find Leviathan a bit more terrible if it is the latter that makes some liquids in his head combine and ignite (Hovind's theory about how it works, technically, as in Bombardier Beetle).**

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Sts Placidus and Companions
Martyrs in Messina
5-X-2013

Won't hide this discussion: here.

*It is not: lösen is leasan of course! Both as they suppose from *Proto-Germanic present stem with *-au-.

**And most terrible of all if his voluntary "neesings" (supposing I got meaning right) get the relative strength to his body size as a sneeze would.

La Saison des Chants de Noël en Suède ...

... c'est entre la Sainte Lucie (aujourd'hui) et l'Épiphanie. Traditionnellement.

Je ne sais pas si en Angleterre la saison commence le jour du Noël ou plus tôt, là où les chants sont genre "we wish you a merry Christmas", mais en Suède le début entre le Moyen Age et les temps juste avant la modernité, c'était 13-déc - 6-janv. ou peut-être même jusqu'à 13-janv. Ce n'est pas exactement la saison ecclésiastique de Noël, 25-déc. - 13-janv. + 2-févr., mais c'est la saison pour la coûtume des jeunes et pauvres d'aller de porte à porte pour chanter et souhaiter déjà en avance Joyeux Noël.

On allait déguisés. St Étienne, Judas le Traitre, Ste Lucie, les Rois Mages sont des rôles des chanteurs traditionnels. Aujourd'hui on reprend, juste aujourd'hui, Ste (?) Lucie, St Étienne, les garçons-étoiles qui suivent St Étienne (c'est celui qui tient l'étoile qui chante les versets de la ballade de St Étienne), les filles qui suivent la Lucie.

C'est un peu sécularisé, mais déjà au Moyen Age ce n'était pas purement religieux, après tout c'étaient des chanteurs populaires en dehors de la liturgie. Et ils recoltaient des vivres et boissons de quoi se faire une bonne fête. D'où peut-être l'interêt de commencer avant Noël, pour avoir de quoi prendre quand la fête était là.

C'est comme garçon étoile, chanteur de la ballade de St Étienne, que j'ai en premier fait mes épreuves pour marcher et me tenir comme il faut aussi comme ministrant de messe. En plus, rares sont les suédois, y compris catholiques, qui boudent ce spectacle. Le bouder est plutôt genre les évangélicaux ou T d J, qui sont prêts à le bouder parce qu'ils considèrent que le culte d'une sainte et suffisant pour le rendre odieux dans les yeux de Dieu. Et même les évangélicaux de Suède ne sont plus aussi strictes que ça. Les T d J oui - mais ils boudent Noël aussi.

Ce soir, 6 h 30, la cour du l'institut suédois (le panneau "Si" = Svenska institutet), rue Payenne, on pourra le voir. Bien-sûr, c'est mieux si on comprend le suédois.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Bpi Georges Pompidou
S^te Lucie, Vierge et Martyr
13-XII-2012

De l'origine du suédois

C'est une langue germanique, comme le hollandais, l'anglais et l'allemand. C'est plus précisement une langue germanique du nord, comme le danois et l'islandais.

Si l'on connaît le latin qui est l'origine des langues romances, on connaît très peu la langue nordique d'origine quand elle était encore très proche aux autres langues germaniques* et on ne connaît pas du tout la langue germanique commune s'il y a même eu.

Même observation pour le Slavon.

Les premiers Bulgares, ceux de Volga, venaient d'Asie, mais il ne parlaient pas la langue Bulgare connue, c'est à dire une langue slavonne, ils parlaient une langue turque. Comme aussi très probablement Attila. Qu'à part de ça les Bulgares de Volga aient ramené des Slavons en Bulgarie ou des Huns ramenés des tribus germaniques, ne nous dit rien de tout sur les origines des langues germaniques ou slavonnes.

Si Attila avait comme langue maternelle quelque langue turque change en rien que ses soldats étaient recrutés parmi les germaniques, comme les Ostrogoths. Les Westrogoths étaient alliés aux Romains et aux Francs, contre lui. Et si tel chef des Bulgares de Volga ait eu une langue maternelle turque, ça n'explique en rien l'origine des langues slavonnes y compris même de la langue bulgare.

Entre germanique et slavon il y a des similitudes mais des trop grandes différences pour qu'on s'entende.

Le Persan est à peu près aussi proche du Slavon que le Germanique. Slavon et Persan sont tous les deux langues "satem", où le k palatale passe à une fricative palatale chuintante. Slavon et Germanique sont tous les deux langues du nord, où ce qui est bh en sanscrit, ph en grec et f en latin est un b.

C'est à peu près tout ce qu'on peut dire, sans trop entrer dans les détails. Celui qui s'interesse et qui parle l'allemand, je recommende fortement un auteur nommé Brugmann.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
BpI, Georges Pompidou
St Grégoire le Thaumaturge
17-XI-2012

*"Ek hlewagastiz hultingaz horna tawido" est un des deux textes très connus. C'est l'inscription sur une corne. Ça donne le nom et l'origine de l'artisan, c'est tout. On sait même plus, directement, de l'étrusque. D'autres transcriptions remplacent les z avec des R (sans les confondre avec les r comme en horna). On ne sait même pas si le z était déjà passé à un r ou non, comme on le trouve plus tard dans les langues nordiques. Et le signe utilisé n'était ni un z ni un r dans notre alphabète, mais un signe runique, dans l'alphabète runique "de 24 signes."

De Quoi=De Ce Que

On le trouve en Montaigne. "Se plaindre de quoi ..." = "se plaindre de ce que ..."

Alors, on pourrait écrire aussi "Que Quoi" pour "Que Ce Que"="Quam Ut"/"Quam Quod"?

La phrase est indetté à la Syntaxe du Grec Attique: "de quo" pour "de eo quod" n'est pas si bon Latin (ou alors c'est ma lecture thomasienne qui me trompe, référence cicéronienne ou tacitienne reste à vérifier) que les phrases correspondantes sont égales ou la plus courte même meilleure en Grec. Avec le Datif, par exemple: 'oi paides proseikousi tois 'oi goneis eisin e autois eikousi = 'oi paides proseikousi 'ois goneis eisin e autois eikousi. Les progénitures ressemblent à ceux qui sont leur parents ou ressemblent à eux. 'ois= tois 'oi.

Si on peut faire la phrase "que quoi" dans le sens de "quam ut" / "quam quod", alors la syntaxe française a une liberté que manquent les autres langues romanes. La phrase "que ce que" est atroce par l'homonymie entre "que" = "quam" et "[ce] que" = "quod" / "ut".

Ex: "Sous Mola aurait été plus important que vivent les hommes que quoi passent les voitures."

Ceci est inspiré par une épisode peu récommendable du régime Franco, lu dans un livre d'instruction de la langue castellane. Il imposait à un village un réaménagement infrastructurel, les villageois se sont assis pour bloquer, et si ce n'est pas un mensone, les soldats ont tiré sur les villageois et il y a eu des morts. Le carlisme me semble plus respectueux des libertés locales que le franquisme proprement dit.

L'espagnol doit dire:

Ex à éviter: "Bajo Mola habría sido más importante lo que viva la gente que lo que pasen los coches."

Ex corrigé: "Bajo Mola habría sido más importante la vida de la gente que el pasaje de los coches."

D'où certaines différences syntactiques entre les langues romanes et germaniques. En anglais, allemand ou suédois la traduction de "quam ut" ne pose pas de problème:

Ex "Under Mola it would have been more important that the people live than that the cars pass."

Ex "Under Mola hade det vägt tyngre att låta menniskor lefva än att låta bilar passera."

Ex "Unter Mola wäre es wichtiger gewesen daß die Menschen leben als daß die Autos passieren."

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mouffetard / Paris
Nativité de Notre Dame
la Bienheureuse Vierge Ma rie
le 8-IX-2012

PS, l'épisode en question (même si elle est vraie) n'empêche pas une gratitude envers Franco pour avoir battu l'épouvantable Azaña.

"Les femmes là, ils sont bon" ...

Traduction trop directe de l'allemand:

"Die Frauen da, sie sind gut."

Ou de la même phrase en suédois. Ou anglais.

En allemand, et les autres langues germaniques, l'adjectif qui suit le verbe n'est pas décliné, juste celui qui précède le substantif l'est. En plus, il et elle se distinguent au singulier mais ont un pluriel en commun. Mais le français, a-t-il jamais entendu telle chose?

Pour François Villon, "ils" peut-être pluriel d'un substantif féminin. Mais en plus, en français actuel, il y a ceci:

"Accompagné d’un adjectif, celui-ci se met au féminin s’il le précède, et au masculin s’il le suit." - sur le pluriel "gens", par le wiktionnaire.

Bon, masculin s'il le suit semble être assez proche des adjectifs non-déclinés qui suivent les verbes. Un héritage du Franconien auparavant parlé en France? Possible./HGL

fika och fika

1) Månsing för "café" eller "coffee" uttaladt "kafi" - "fika". Månsing fungerar som franska verlan.

a) Substantiv = kaffe.
b) Eftersom det slutar på -a, lika med infinitiv-ändelse, äfven verb = intaga kaffe (med kakor eller mackor).
c) Verbalsubstantivet "fikning" existerar intet. Det heter antingen "fika" eller - arbetsplatser fr a - "fika-paus".

2) Fikonspråk för söka.

"Söka stumpar i parken är luffarnes sed"
plus hvarje ord koppladt till "fikon" blir:
"Fika sökon fimpar stukon i fiken parkon är fiffarnas lukon fid sekon".

Meningen ger både "fika"=söka, eftertrakta och "fimp"=cigarettstump.

3) Månsing, fikonspråk och tattarspråk ("tjej, tjuring, gycke") äro hufvud-källorna för slang. Vissa förvrängningar af ordgestalter ha också gifvit typiska smeknamnsformer (dit hör intet "fika" i någondera bemärkelsen) af vanliga ord och namn "farsa, morsa, brorsa, syrra" (trol. först syrsa som undviks p g a att det betyder "cricket", "Grille", "cikada" - detta kan dock ha inspirerat hela serien i ett tidigare mer skämtsamt skede), "flarra, firre, Kalle, Pelle" ...

4) Tattarspråk, lappska och finska äro tidiga exempler på främmande språk talade af folk som äfven tala svenska. Kunna ha bidragit till lusten att lära sig och finna på kluriga språk. Men latin kom tidigare. "Bunafis luctarila"="Bonnafis luktar illa"=falskt latin.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
BpI, Georges Pompidou
26-V-2011

Leçons de l'onomastique pour "Caroline Parmentier-et-toc!"

1) J'imagine que cette chose sur Malström plutôt que Malmström était une plaisanterie.

Un peu lourde, vu que le Malström est un tourbillon à la côte Occidentale Norvégienne surtout qui fait des épaves et des morts - ou faisait à l'époque que les bateaux étaient en bois. J'ai lu un récit d'épouvante sur une rare survie de ce phénomène très violent.

Comme un regard sur son Blog nous permet de constater: Cecilia s'appelle de nom familiale Malmström. Quand "ström" ne se préfixe pas "mal-" il veut dire ruisseau ou fleuve. Le mot "malm" est un peu plus compliqué: la signification usuelle actuelle étant "minerai", mais en noms des lieux (comme Malmö) ou des familles (comme celle de la ministre en question) une plus vieille signification reste d'actualité: grave ou sable. Les mots "mal" et "malm" ne sont pas sans rapport, car "malm" veut dire étymologiquement "(rocher) moulu" et "mal" et une form du verbe "mala"="moudre".

Malmström - nom de la ministre - est donc "tourbillon (autour de rocher) moulu" ou "fleuve autour de grave", tandis que Malström - rectification proposé par Caroline Parmentier - est "tourbillon qui moud (et tue)".

2) Si un collégien s'appelle Love, forte est la possibilité qu'il est suédois, nommé pour honorer par exemple Carl Jonas Love Almqvist. Et que le prénom se prononce Lou - vé.

Il était un poëte, pas notre meilleur. Un peu mi-chemin entre Victor Hugo et Rimbeaud. Une nouvelle montre le bon dieu du parsisme, Ormuz, comme un prussien et Ahriman, le mauvais dieu du parsisme comme la révanche du désordre créatif. Sans doute la raison pourquoi le café lundois Ahriman se tourne vers les étudiants anarchistes, amateurs aussi entre autre du bon café au lait à la française et des pâtisséries et sandwichéries également à l'inspiration française. Il était un clerc assez peu orthodoxe du point de vu luthérien. D'une côté plus mariologue, c à d plus catholique, mais d'une autre aussi un prôneur de l'amour libre. Et du déterminisme, un précurseur du malheureux R. Badinter. Donc moins catholique.*

La plaisanterie de Caroline Parmentier sur le prénom du collégien aurait été mieux si c'était une collégienne anglophone. Dont le prénom se prononcerait Lave.

Le prénom féminin anglais se prononçant Lave veut biensûr dire Amour ou Charité - une sœur approprié pour Foy et pour Espérance. Filles de Sophie.

Le prénom masculin suédois se prononçant Lou-vé, par contre ... comment vais-je dire sans blesser les sensibilités? ou ne le vais-je pas faire, vu qu'elle ne l'a pas fait pour la fierté virile d'un jeune collégien mon probable compatriote? ... est emprunté du français sous les formes Love, Lovis, cette dernière forme étant très proche de l'original français - même identique si on met tout en majuscules et sur certains monuments - et n'étant pas un prénom féminin du tout. La forme correspondante pour Louise est en suédois Lovisa ou parfois Lova, avec un a.

Espérons que le jeune Monsieur Love NN ait un peu plus d'humour quand il se lèvera du coma artificiel. Il y a dans notre pays un élite qui fait des vrais dégâts un peu dans l'esprit de l'auteur auquel je viens de faire référence. Mais un collégien de 14 en n'est pas personnellement responsable et en ne devrait pas payer les frais.

3) La blague sur l'orthographe du prénom voulant dire Louis en suédois dit quelque choses sur une bonne connaissance de l'anglais très présumable chez Caroline Parmentier. Mais celle sur Malmström et Malström ... a-t-elle essayé de regarder un lexique? En suédois la plupart des noms des familles ne se trouvent pas dans un dictionnaire mais sont des composés choisis ad hoc pour affubler une famille d'un nom. Même en français le sien se trouve dans le dictionnaire parce qu'elle a eu un congénère célèbre dans l'art culinaire. Ou a-t-elle parlé avec un suédois dont elle respectait trop la compétence évidente dans la langue maternelle pour redouter son manque d'honnêteté? Inquiétant pour des suédois en France, alors ... Ou était-ce juste une plaisanterie un peu lourde?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Beaubourg-Les Halles
21-V-2011

*Il a été défroqué. Son "ordination" fut en 1837 - une année peu propice (si on multiplie les années avec les siècles).