Saturday, December 30, 2023

Two Challenges Against Christmas, Answered

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Answering Tovia Singer on December 25 · Sharing on December 25, Kurt Simmons · Attacks on the Christmas Feast from a Protestant, Answered · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Two Challenges Against Christmas, Answered

When Was Jesus REALLY born??
Bruce Avilla | 14 Dec. 2014

1:53 — 2:25
that the lambing season that's the only time that's where they're watching at any time of day any time of night they're watching for any birth that's the only time and when would that happen the Lambs are not like people they're only born at one time I never knew that yeah it must be a dummy honestly Lambs are only born at a certain time of the year not like us they can only be born a certain season Lambs are born in the springtime that's the first thing they're born in the springtime they could start as early as as February but it really would go March April that's the center that's the Hebrew month of Nissan

Ramat Hanadiv does not agree:

Published: 30.12.20

Winter is kidding and lambing season in the goat pen at Ramat Hanadiv, but this doesn’t stop the goats and sheep from working: each day they go out to the field and play an important role in preventing fires, while our staff looks after the kids and lambs that stay behind in the pen.

Winter is the busiest season in the pen – it’s kidding and lambing season. From late November to late March there will be a number of births each day; between 100 and 200 kids and lambs will be born here. The pen will become a particularly lively nursery.

Did you notice the date? 30.12.20 — 30th December 2020.

When Was Jesus Really Born? Exact Date Given! | Dr. Gene Kim | Bible Study
REAL Bible Believers | 1 Jan. 2021

0:00 — 0:57
when was jesus really born now a lot of people think that he was born on december 25th of christmas but the simple answer is no the reason why it's no is because all you have to do is a simple search on december 25th and it's the birthday of something pagan and it's not the lord jesus christ it's uh the devil's crowd if you read the book by alexander hislop the two babylon as well as from david w daniels the babylon religion which i would highly recommend for you to read it's really cool it's all in comic format and he david daniels documents really well so the babylon religion it points out through those works that semoramus and nimrod that's what the christmas day was patterned after the sun god and it was for the birthday of nimrod supposedly reincarnating into tammuz now notice what's that satan's job it's to change the

Great, except for two details:
  • Hislop's research is worthless. You can just as well use tea leaves. He pretended to be expert on the Old Babylonian religion, and wrote his Two Babylons right when Assyriology was just starting. Actual assyriologists have not confirmed him. The Roman calendar as we have it did not pre-exist Jesus' birth by very much. The Egyptian calendar Caesar used had 365 days, but no leap years. Over time any given Egyptian month would end up any season. Just a bit slower than the Muslim calendar with actual lunar months. The Old Roman calendars did have the month December, but ...
    1. the one of Romulus had ten lunar months, starting March, and winter, without counting months
    2. later on the winter sometimes had two lunar months, January and February, sometimes three, adding Mercedonius. This started way before Romans had significant known contact with Babylonian or Egyptian like cultures.
  • even if one could tie "Nimrod's birthday" to Dec. 25th, which one can't, this is not a theological reason against Jesus being born that day too. Here is Josephus on Nimrod:

    He also said he would be revenged on God, if he should have a mind to drown the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach! and that he would avenge himself on God for destroying their forefathers!

    Source : Antiquities, Book I, Chapter 4, § 2

    So, Nimrod and Jesus both are seen as saviours, and when we compare Josephus' view of Nimrod with most Dispensationalists' view on Calvary, each on top of that, "from the wrath of God" — if Kim can take that much of a parallel with Nimrod, why would shared birthdays, if such, be a problem?

Now, if Dr. Kim wanted to pretend that Josephus is not the Bible, well, neither is the "research" of Hislop!

PS, Here is a third:
The Course of Abijah (Abia) & the Birth of Christ
William Struse (shared on Academia)

He assumes each course of service is two weeks long. He assumes neither year is a leapyear. He assumes all months are four weeks long, when in fact they are 29 or 30 days.

But, worst of all, he assumes each year starts with Jehoiarib in Nisan. Can the Hebrew calendar have two consecutive non-leap-years? Yes, a lunisolar year 8 year cycle will only have three leapyears, not four. It's not a safe bet, but it is within possibilities. So is the assumption of two weeks consecutive service. It's quite a bit of a stretch to assume the courses around month endings are stretched to accomodate for longer months. But it is totally impossible to assume all years began with the course of Jehoiarib. 1 week times 24 courses of a week means 168 days. His assumption of two week services means 2*168 days, i e 336 days. If you supposed all three major feasts outside this cycle, you'd add 21 and get 357 days. In fact, a Hebrew year is 354 days, or 353 if it's short, 355 of it's long, and 30 more days if it's a leap year. Two consecutive years will not both start on a Sabbath, when the courses changed. If the mention of all courses serving the major feasts doesn't simply mean they fell on different courses each year, even so three consecutive years won't start on the same course, and if it means that, then even two won't. Each year won't start on the course of Jehoiarib, rather the course of Jehoiarib will recur at the beginning of the year in diverse cycles of perhaps 24 years./HGL

Wednesday, December 27, 2023

A Reason Against Egyptian Records

Creation vs. Evolution: 480 Years From Exodus to Temple? · Φιλολoγικά / Philologica: Against a Late Date of the Exodus · A Reason Against Egyptian Records

Armstrong Institute speak about ...

On the surface, there appear to be plenty of options for identifying the Exodus pharaoh. Digging down into the details, however, it becomes evident that no other Egyptian period, dynasty and pharaoh gets nearly as close to matching the biblical text as the New Kingdom period’s Thutmosid dynasty pharaoh, Amenhotep II!

Their case in part is about this being the date:

Amenhotep II = 1453–1426 B.C.E.

Armstrong Institute of Biblical Archaeology : Who Was the Pharaoh of the Exodus?
By Christopher Eames

Now, on another discussion, recently, not published, someone spoke of verification of Egyptian records being possible because of coordination with known celestial phenomena.

Here* is a little remark on that principle in this connexion:

Amenhotep's coronation can be dated without much difficulty because of a number of lunar dates in the reign of his father, Thutmose III. These sightings limit the date of Thutmose's accession to either 1504 or 1479 BC.[16] Thutmose died after 54 years of reign,[17] at which time Amenhotep would have acceded to the throne. Amenhotep's short coregency with his father would then move his accession two years and four months earlier,[7] dating his accession to either 1427 BC in the low chronology,[18] or in 1454 BC in the high chronology.

Charles C. Van Siclen. "Amenhotep II," The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt. Ed. Donald Redford. Vol. 1, p.71. Oxford University Press, 2001.
Edward F. Wente, Thutmose III's Accession and the Beginning of the New Kingdom, p.267. Journal of Near Eastern Studies, The University of Chicago Press, 1975.
Breasted, James Henry. Ancient Records of Egypt, Vol. II p. 234. University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 1906.
Shaw, Ian; and Nicholson, Paul. The Dictionary of Ancient Egypt. p.28. The British Museum Press, 1995.

So, the Biblical Archaeologists at Armstrong Institute are wagering on the "high chronology" ... check this, not footnoted:

His reign is usually dated from 1427 to 1401 BC. His consort was Tiaa, who was barred from any prestige until Amenhotep's son, Thutmose IV, came into power.

So, archaeologists and Egyptologists prefer the "low chronology." This makes Amenhotep II too late for the Exodus.

This means, Hatshepsut is not the female ruler who was pharao's daughter, but an earlier one is. I think the one earlier that's available, without going back even further, is Sobekneferu or Neferusobek, which obviously means, I am casting Amenemhat IV (who got a cenotaph, not a proper grave) for the role of Moses, so to speak mourned after he fled (Exodus 2). No originality claimed here, my choice is that of an Egyptologist who wrote in 2001:

Searching for Moses
by David Down | This article is from
Journal of Creation 15(1):53–57, April 2001

Amenemhet III may have had one son, known as Amenemhet IV, who was an enigmatic character who may have followed his father or may have been a co-regent with him. If the latter, Amenemhet IV could well have been Moses. Amenemhet IV mysteriously disappeared off the scene before the death of Amenemhet III.

Amenemhet III had a daughter whose name was Sobekneferu. It is known that she had no children.6 If she was the daughter of Pharaoh who came down to the river to bathe, it is easy to understand why she was there. It was not because she had no bathroom in her palace. She would have been down there taking a ceremonial ablution and praying to the river god Hapi, who was also the god of fertility. Having no children she would have needed such a god, and when she found the beautiful baby Moses there she would have considered it an answer to her prayers (Exodus 2:5–6).

Edwards, I.E.S. et al., The Cambridge Ancient History, Vol. II, part I, Cambridge University Press, p. 43, 1975; David, R., Ancient Egypt, Harper Collins, p. 20, 1988.

Let's cite Christopher Eames again, doublechecking in David Down:

David Down opined Neferhotep I. Alfred Edersheim believed it was Thutmose II. Herman Hoeh, originally following a form of Velikovskian chronology, initially believed it was Merenre Nemtyemsaf II; later, following more conventional chronology, Amenhotep II. Isaac Asimov believed it to be Merneptah. According to Sigmund Freud—yes, even the famous psychologist studied the question—it was Akhenaten.

I identify Khasekemre-Neferhotep I as the pharaoh from whom Moses demanded Israel’s release. I do so because Petrie found scarabs21 of former kings at Kahun. But the latest scarab he found there was of Neferhotep, who was apparently the pharaoh ruling when the Israelite slaves suddenly left Kahun and fled from Egypt in the Exodus. According to Manetho, he was the last king to rule before the Hyksos occupied Egypt ‘without a battle’. Without a battle? Where was the Egyptian army? It was at the bottom of the Red Sea Exodus 14:28). Khasekemre-Neferhotep I was probably the pharaoh of the Exodus. His mummy has never been found.

The term scarab in archaeological reports refers to seals used for sealing documents though they were often used as ornaments. In either case, they were made of stone, metal or even pottery, with the shape of the scarab beetle on top and the name and title of the king engraved underneath, so when it was pressed down on the soft clay it left his seal impression.

Yes, David Down did say Neferhotep I. Now, since some have claimed me as a Velikovskian, I am glad for Christopher Eames clarification:

Herman Hoeh, originally following a form of Velikovskian chronology, initially believed it was Merenre Nemtyemsaf II; later, following more conventional chronology, Amenhotep II.

So "what would Velikovsky say" seems to be Merenre Nemtyemsaf II.** That's 6th dynasty. That's conventional chronology (from above it should be clear it's not carbon dates) ...

1 year and 1 month, 2194 BC,[1] 2184 BC,[2][3][4] 2180 BC,[5] 2152 BC,[6]
Jürgen von Beckerath: Chronologie des pharaonischen Ägypten (Chronology of the Egyptian Pharaohs), Mainz am Rhein: Verlag Philipp von Zabern (1997), p. 152.
Michael Rice: Who is who in Ancient Egypt, Routledge London & New York 1999, ISBN 0-203-44328-4, see p. 111
Jaromir Malek: The Old Kingdom in Ian Shaw (editor): The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt, Oxford University Press, new edition (2003), ISBN 978-0192804587
Peter A. Clayton: Chronicle of the Pharaohs: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt, Thames & Hudson (2006), ISBN 0-500-28628-0, see p. 64.
Thomas Schneider: Lexikon der Pharaonen, Düsseldorf 2002.
Erik Hornung (editor), Rolf Krauss (editor), David A. Warburton (editor): Ancient Egyptian Chronology, Handbook of Oriental Studies, Brill 2012, ISBN 978-90-04-11385-5, available online copyright-free, see p. 491.

By contrast, what David Down says is Khasekemre-Neferhotep I***. I will not go through all the options given for his regnal years. I'll just go with the two extremes, and you can check the footnotes yourself. It's 1736 to 1694. Again, I hope none of this involves a carbon date. Because, my carbon date for the Exodus would be from the tephra of Santorini or Thera eruption, carbon dated from tephra to 1609 BC. I put the Exodus, based on the Roman Martyrology for Christmas Day, in 1511 BC. For carbon dates, the reduction is 98 years. For presumably a date combining later carbon dates and chronicles back, it's 225 to 183 years.

The distance to Amenhotep II's accession, for which I chose the later date, would be:

1736 - 1427 = 309 years (or less)
With my Biblical calibration:
1511 - 1427 = 84 years.

The reduction would mainly involve remainders of the Middle Kingdom and the Second Intermediary Period. If each pharao had dated the accession to his throne by reference to a very much earlier epoch, comparable to ab urbe condita or Anno Domini, this would mean positing a confusion that's totally absurd and unrealistic. But in fact, they didn't. Each pharao was dated according to his throne accession and regnal years from then. Sometimes in the case of co-regents, from the father's regnal years, prior to taking over.

Parallel dynasties being serialised in records to give a false impression of unity (and Second Intermediary Period has a parallel dynasty anyway) would be impossible if each ruler in each of them dated his regnal years starting by so and so many years after Christ or after Rome, but as they didn't, it's a pretty elementary sleight of hand.

For Velikovskian chronology to work, taking Merenre's death as an example, the distance would instead be:

2194 - 1427 = 767 years
With Herman Hoeh's first Biblical calibration:
1511 - 1427 = 84 years.

While I get a reduction by four, Herman Hoeh's first attempt involves one by 9. I am not saying his is totally implausible given the condition of Egyptian records, but I am saying mine is after all less radical.

Hans Georg Lundahl
St. John's Day

See also Problems with ‘Searching for Moses’ article
+ David Down replies:

From the reply:

He simply endorsed what Peter James wrote, which is a reduction of 250 years at the time of the Third Intermediate Period (dynasties 21–24). The importance of this conclusion is not the length of time but that it strikes at the traditional chronology, in particular it destroys the so-called ‘Sothic Cycle’ which is the only ‘secure’ dating of Egyptian history that archaeologists can rely on.




Wednesday, December 20, 2023

Against a Late Date of the Exodus

Creation vs. Evolution: 480 Years From Exodus to Temple? · Φιλολoγικά / Philologica: Against a Late Date of the Exodus · A Reason Against Egyptian Records

Among Christian exegetes, the position is kind of this, those who argue for it:

  • King Solomon built his temple in the 10th C.
  • The 480 years are symbolic, with "40" for a generation, these being actually shorter in real chronology.

The Jews seem to have a very different but converging motive.

  • They take the 480 as literally that length, not a minimum actually overpassed, but 480 years and no longer, this is a shortening of 48 years of the chronology;
  • They furthermore have a shortening of the so called "intertestamental period" (after the books they — and Protestants — count as canonical) which can be seen by noting that the current Jewish year is not 2023 + 4004 as Ussher got, but a different, lower number.

That lower number is (2023 / 2024) the Jewish year of 5784 after Creation.

The Masoretic reckoning of anno Mundi would in Ussher's count have Christ born 4003 after Creation. I e, creation is 4004 years.*

2024 + 4003 = 6027 (Ussher's anno Mundi for next year)
6027 - 5784 = 243 (shortening of intertestamental period)
243 + 48 = 291 (add shortening by taking 480 as exact instead of minimal)
1511 BC - 291 = 1220 BC.

But the shortening is wrong, and it is also wrong to take the 480 years as exactly that rather than a minimum, therefore, an Exodus in 1220 BC is wrong, and an Exodus in 1511 BC is right. QED./HGL

* Before Christ. I was tired./HGL

Friday, December 15, 2023


I just met the claim again that Germany as a unity was created by Bismarck and Hohenzollern monarchs in 1871.

One such noteworthy name, or political entity, that laid claim to the land was the Holy Roman Empire (800-1806). The empire was not very organized or stable, as you can see by the hundreds of dukedoms, baronets, and states that made it up.

Traveler Door : 40+ Perspective-Changing And Unusual Maps That Portray The World In A New Way
By Giovanni DS July 6, 2022

Don't get me wrong, the page as such has it's really nice points, like "Europe seen by Americans" involving a country named "Old Mexico" (hint at Mexico at a time being "New Spain") and so on (though it annoyed me there was a Hakenkreutz on the territory where Germany should be).

I will not give the map they showed to illustrate the point, but rather another map which is a bit older and also involves a wikipedia licence:


  • You are free to:

    • Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format for any purpose, even commercially.
    • Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.

    • The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.

  • Under the following terms:

    • Attribution — You must give appropriate credit , provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made . You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
    • ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.

    • No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.

I take this as meaning the map must be provided with a link to the original so they can apply it, not that my essay here is supposed to constitute any such "remix" ... so, here is the map, followed by the attribution:

Map of the Holy Roman Empire in 1356, Original creation
Created: 5 June 2019, Cameron Pauley - Own work

Feel free to share and possibly modify the map as you see fit, if you share alike, that is, allow the public to share and modify as they see fit.

However, do not apply your modifications within this essay of mine.

Before uploading, I checked that the list of abbreviations, within three columns, had 49 abbreviations in the first column, also in the second presumably, and then one less in the third, equals 146 abbreviations. The bigger states are of course given unabbreviated, but are fewer. The Holy Roman Empire back then had perhaps 200 states.

To put this into perspective, parts of these states are North Italian, Flemish, one of them is Provence, some are in what's now Czech Republic or Poland.

It is perfectly true, this was not a nation state with one official language, that being German. Each state had its chancery, each chancery wrote its language, aligning or not with the language of other chanceries. Enghien or Edingen would more probably have used French or Flemish (the Medieval version of Dutch) than German, perhaps both. Provence, Monaco, Ventimilglia, Piedmont would pretty certainly have used some Occitan, probably Classic Provençal in all of these. Hamburg and Lüneburg and Brandenburg would have used Low German, not High German. North Germany only adopted High German through the Bible of Luther. Before which the Catholic Church had made 14 translations in High German and 4 in Low German. The North could have kept its original language, if they hadn't become Lutherans.

So, is having more than one language a problem?

To a certain way of thinking back in the 19th C. the answer was a very emphatic yes. A bit problematic for the Irish who by that time were really declining in the numbers of fluent native speakers of Gaelic, and it made Switzerland kind of an anomaly. The one language that was official all over the Holy Roman Empire since Ottonian times was the kind of Latin that Alcuin of York had been teaching in Tours in the even earlier Carolingian times, when France too was part of this Empire. Or this Empire too was part of France. Or ... I think you get the point. Other languages were however locally and regionally official, and after the Carolingian Empire got divided, and French was mostly spoken outside this Empire, the largest regional language within the Empire was High German. A bit like the largest language in Switzerland is German / Swiss German (by the way, Swiss German back then was certainly written by the chancery of Bishopric of Basel or County of Fribourg, or perhaps even the outlier from Austria where later you find the Urkantone—besides, High German from parts now not considered Swiss German may still have been closer to it than now. I am not sure when Vienna and Munich started writing Zeit instead of Zît, and the article on "Mittelhochdeutsche Sprache" lists 1250–1350 (just before the Golden Bull) as Spätmittelhochdeutsch.

I would argue, no, it is not a problem. The USA actually as a Union doesn't have English legally defined as the official language, or so I have heard. It's de facto used as official language by the union and by all states, but not exclusively by all states, there are either states or counties that have Spanish or French as second official language. The reasoning behind not recognising German Unity prior to 1871 due to HRE not having High German as the everywhere official status would preclude Medieval France from having been a unity as well. Who claims that France was founded in Francis I in 1539?

But what about the many states?

I think you may agree, the middle is the most state rich part. The Electorates of Trier and of Cologne are probably bigger than Washington DC. The medium size of a state might have been perhaps half the size of a state in New England, let's say half New Jersey, though admittedly, some of the smallest ones would be more like Counties than States.

The multiplicity of states and counties, somehow, is not used to argue that the US is only a very loose confederacy. Arguing that Germany was founded in 1871 rather than in 843 (when Carolingian Empire was split into three and the parts now Germany would typically have been East Francia) or 962 (when the dignity of Emperor was demoted from a North Italian locality in Mid Francia / Lotharingia to East Francia) is like arguing that the US was founded by Abraham Lincoln in 1865 through Conquest of the South Confederacy, rather than in 1776 by George Washington by secession from the United Kingdom.

So, why the claim that Germany was only a latecomer among states?

We can dismiss the dissing of HRE as so much spin, as shown, and go to what I suppose are the real motives. There are two, nearly opposite, motives.

  • the admirers of Bismarck held to 19th C. Nationalist and Revolutionary (partly Totalitarian) ideals of what a state is supposed to be;
  • the victors in 1918 and 1945, through some annoyance at Germany (where at least in the 1945 case, Austria as a state had not contributed, having been eclipsed since 1938)

There is however a real problem with the reunification of 1990. I think it can be subsumed in the name of Lothar de Maizière, though he personally may not be a very problematic figure. As I left Austria at age 11 and a half, and hadn't resided in Germany since age 5, I am too unfamiliar with current trends in Germany to really know. The problem is that Ossis, having received the education in East Germany, came into citizenship and sometimes leadership in reunited Germany. Unavoidable if one wanted a reunification? Yes. But problematic? Also yes. I think the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens may have unduly profited from ideals and thoughts that before 1990 would have been promptly denounced as Commie views suddenly no longer being identified with the East Block. Because there was no such thing. When Dol Guldur was fallen, there were things that Saruman could do which he could not do before. Which allowed Sauron to rebuild Mordor. I am not on the side that Kirill Eskov's narrator voice purports to be on, whether he thought so really, or told so tongue in cheek, but very firmly on Tolkien's.

But either way, the problem is not that Germany as such is a recent thing. If Germans have trouble discerning the due limits of state power, as the Wunderlich family may agree they have, on a collective level, it may actually be because they have listened to bad ideologues, after pretty much experience. Which means that other peoples with comparably long experience may also have troubles to discern such limits by also listening to bad ideologues. I consider a big country to the East has been listening to worse ones lately, and it may have had a stake in dissing HRE too.

  • 1356, Berlin and Vienna (the latter city being by far more important) were part of a flourishing European Medieval culture, which, like Dante, considered freedom the highest gift God had given man (man as such, every man, including those that refuse the higher gift of redemption, and that redemption not being a redemption from freedom)
  • 1356, Moscow was paying homage and tribute to the Khan of the Golden Horde, and Gregory Palamas was elucidating as part of hesychasm (I do not mind the prayer technique) the idea that every man needs to have a Starets, and that freedom, since the fall, means temptation and sin. I may have gotten him wrong, but the "Tale of the Russian pilgrim" seems to argue sth like that. On the Camino in 2004, I picked up the book, read some, concluded it was not for me, and left it at the next hostal de peregrinos.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Octave of the Immaculate Conception

Octava Conceptionis Immaculatae beatae Mariae Virginis.

PS, it can be added that Germany in 843 arguably was less racist than US in 1776, certainly less racist than US (yes, including some North soldiers with a programme to liberate slaves and then send them to Africa), 1865. It has, except for a brief era when ruled by a man unduly impressed by a French Anthropologist, by English medical doctors and by US Margaret Sanger held sway./HGL

PPS. 550 / 2 = 275. 225 * 2 = 450. 77 + 33 = 110. To get 100, use 77 + 23 or 73 + 27 instead. 3 X 3 X 3 = 27. And it's not racist to focus on sth you are traditionally good at. It may be racist to require all children to pass Mathematics, but teaching it correctly isn't./HGL

Tuesday, December 12, 2023

White People and Black Slavery: a Very Brief Overview

The ethnicity and the treatment of the other ethnicity have a somewhat unusual relation.

First, the European culture of the Caucasian ethnicity, as some have liked to call it, abolished slavery at least twice.

  • White people, from Queen St. Bathilde to the mayor or whatever of Ragusa, came to socities with white slaves, and ended slavery in them, all over the Middle Ages.
  • Wilberforce and Pope Gregory XVI were huge fans of abolishing Black Slavery, and in some cases this had to do with trying to end Arabs and Blacks of Africa targetting white people as slaves, and trying to be consistent (1830 Algiers was taken, after having tried to lay claim to France over a war debt incurred by a Régime considered as criminal by the then French régime, and part of the French war case was accusing Algiers of slave hunt).

Between these two major events, there was however a somewhat discordant event, or a very discordant event. It was White people on the other side of the Atlantic holding Black slaves.

Note, it ended through mainly white men feeling there was something off about slavery. But before that, it had come about by reconciling irreconcilable things.

What were these irreconcilable things?

  • White men cannot be slaves, because Queen St. Bathilde said so (she did not specify this applied only to white people, but she pronounced this in a country where the inhabitants were in fact white) because of Christian principle.
  • Black men can be slaves, because we bought them (in Cameroon, for instance), and in retaliation for Africans targetting Europeans.

The upshot (which no one had really planned) was an unprecedented division between White and Black into "non-enslavables" and "enslavables" (and usually also slaves).

Racism came from this unfortunate event, which started in the times which in places were already Renaissance, but which did not quite affect Europeans all that much prior to the Enlightenment.

Racism was not ended by Enlightenment philosophers, it was ended by devout Christians. Wilberforce, an Evangelical, who had one son oppose Huxley, and who had two other sons convert to Catholicism. King Charles X of France. Pope Gregory XVI whose rule began the year after Charles X's ended, and then some more, like Pierre Savorgnan de Brazza or the Emperor of Brazil, Peter II. None of these was pureblooded from the Atlantic and Colonial powers, apart from Wilberforce. King Charles X had a grandmother from Poland and one from Austria. Gregory XVI was from Italy. Pierre Savorgnan de Brazza was from Italy. Peter II of Brazil had a mother from Austria.

Wilberforce, on the other hand, did not hail from countries where slavery had already ended long ago, and never began again, he relied only on the Bible. And the Bible led himself to Abolitionism, and two of his sons to Catholicism, and another one of his sons to combat Evolutionism.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Our Lady of Guadalupe

Sunday, December 10, 2023

Pagan Setting of Beowulf?

Damien Mackey quoted Josh Skinner as saying:

The Biblical allusions found throughout Beowulf have made many see the poem as awork of Christian art. The sheer volume of connections tempt many to look past the overwhelmingly pagan setting of the poem and argue for a Christian reading of the work.

I don't know exactly what the author of the quote means by "pagan setting" ... indeed, the protagonists are non-Christians and partly idolaters, it is stated early on that "they knew not their maker" ... that's it.

It is not a Christian poem about Christians.

But still less is it a Pagan poem about Pagans.

It is in fact (as Tolkien remarked) a Christian poem about Pagans.

Beowulf may have similarities to King David (though he did not die in a foolhardy attack bungled in ways calculated to increase his own glory, and others had to pay while he died). But his men on a certain occasion had a similarity of situation and a dissimilarity of attitude to the disciples of Christ.

Beowulf is down for an hour under the "mere" = lake? and probably both he and Grendel's mother were breathing in an air pocket accessible only via under the water. The Danes find Beowulf's men there, and basically ask "don't you realise he must be dead by now?" and the reply was:

Geats know how to wait, when wan is hope.

Wan being an adjective like the participle waned. While the moon is going from full to new, it is referred to as waning, but wan is like when it is already invisible.

I am very certain that some young clerk or monk in the audience said to himself "these men shall be Christians" ... he waited for a sign. Yes, Sigmund (sic!) the dragonkiller was mentioned, and even more, Beowulf himself dies as a dragonkiller. You see, the clerk was named for a dragon killer. His name was Sigfrid.

St. Sigfrid of Wexio, pray for us!

Wexio is a bit further inland than the land of the Geats, that being the area around Gothenburg, North and South. And as we speak of Beowulf, and as he was of superhuman strength (possibly much higher percentage of Neanderthal than the usual 3 %), how come Damien Mackey didn't make the connexion to Samson?

Happy Advent Season from Paris!/HGL

Credits: Beowulf like King David and Jesus Christ
Damien Mackey

Saturday, December 2, 2023

Barbara von Cilli and / und 134 Daughters / Töchter

Age at first marriage / Alter bei der ersten Heirat.

I Barbara of Cilli or Barbara of Celje (Hungarian: Cillei Borbála, German: Barbara von Cilli, Slovenian and Croatian: Barbara Celjska, 1392 – 11 July 1451), was the Holy Roman Empress and Queen of Hungary and Bohemia by marriage to Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund. She was actively involved in politics and economy of her times, independently administering large feudal fiefdoms and taxes, and was instrumental in creating the famous royal Order of the Dragon. She served as the regent of Hungarian kingdom in the absence of her husband four times: in 1412, 1414, 1416, and 1418.


Barbara was born in Celje, in the Duchy of Styria (today Slovenia), as the daughter and youngest child of Herman II, Count of Celje, and Countess Anna of Schaunberg.

Barbara was engaged in 1405 to Sigismund of Bohemia, King of Hungary, a younger son of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor. The marriage likely took place in December 1405.

II Elizabeth of Luxembourg (Hungarian: Luxemburgi Erzsébet; 7 October 1409 – 19 December 1442) was queen consort of Hungary, queen consort of Germany and Bohemia.
In 1422 Albert married Elisabeth of Luxemburg, the daughter and heiress of the King Sigismund of Hungary (later also Holy Roman Emperor and King of Bohemia), and his second wife, the Slovenian noblewoman Barbara of Celje.

III a Anne of Bohemia and Austria (12 April 1432 – 13 November 1462) was a Duchess of Luxembourg in her own right and, as a consort, Landgravine of Thuringia and of Saxony.
On 2 June 1446 the young Anne was married to William "the Brave" of Saxony (1425–82), Landgrave of Thuringia, a younger son of Frederick I "the Warlike" of Saxony.

IV a Margaret of Thuringia (1449 – 13 July 1501), who married John II, Elector of Brandenburg, and whose direct main heirs have been Electors of Brandenburg, then Kings of Prussia, and then German Emperors.
On 15 August 1476, in Berlin, she married John Cicero, Elector of Brandenburg.

V a Anna (27 August 1487, Berlin–3 May 1514, Kiel), married 10 April 1502 to the future King Frederick I of Denmark (she was never queen consort, since she died before her husband's accession).

VI a Dorothea of Denmark (1 August 1504 – 11 April 1547), was a Duchess of Prussia by marriage to Duke Albert, Duke of Prussia. She was the daughter of King Frederick I of Denmark and Anna of Brandenburg.
In 1525, she received a proposal from the newly made Duke of Prussia. The marriage was arranged by her father's German chancellor Wolfgang von Utenhof. The wedding was conducted 12 February 1526 and Dorothea arrived with a large entourage in Königsberg in June.

VII a Anna Sophia (11 June 1527 – 6 February 1591), married John Albert I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Güstrow.
She married on 24 February 1555 in Wismar to Duke John Albert I of Mecklenburg (1525-1576). EOL

V b Ursula (17 October 1488–18 September 1510, Güstrow), married 16 February 1507 to Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg.

VI b Sophia of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1508–1541), married Ernest I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg
Ernest married Sophia, daughter of Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg and Ursula of Brandenburg, on 2 June 1528 in Schwerin.

VII b Margarete (1534–1596), ⚭ 1559 Graf Johann von Mansfeld-Hinterort

VII c Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (* 1539; † 3. September 1586 in Detmold) war eine Tochter des Herzogs Ernst I. von Braunschweig-Lüneburg und dessen Frau Sophie von Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Als Ehefrau Ottos IV. wurde sie Gräfin von Schaumburg.
Am 5. Juni 1558 heiratete sie in Celle Otto IV. von Schaumburg, dessen erste Frau Maria von Pommern-Stettin 1554 gestorben war.

VIII a Maria (1559–1616, verheiratet mit Jobst von Limburg-Styrum)
Jobst heiratete am 2. März 1591 in Detmold Gräfin Maria von Schauenburg und Holstein-Pinneberg (* 14. Oktober 1559; † 3. Oktoberjul. / 13. Oktober 1616greg. auf Kasteel de Wildenborch), Erbin der Herrschaft Gemen und Tochter von Otto IV. von Holstein-Schaumburg und Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg,

IX a Anna Sophia (* 21. März 1602 auf Kasteel de Wildenborch; † 9. September 1669 ebenda), Stiftsdame in Essen und Pröpstin in Rellinghausen
⚭ 1623 Johann von Morrien zu Nordkirchen (* 2. Dezember 1597; † 30. März 1628)
⚭ 1630 Johann Melchior von Dombroick (* um 1600; † 1658)

VIII b Elisabeth (1566–1638, verheiratet mit Simon zur Lippe)
Simon VI. war seit 1578 mit Armgard von Rietberg († 13. Juli 1584) verheiratet. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. 1585 ging er eine weitere Ehe mit der Gräfin Elisabeth zu Holstein-Schaumburg ein, einer Tochter Ottos IV., Graf von Schaumburg und Holstein-Pinneberg, und Elisabeth Ursulas von Braunschweig-Lüneburg.

IX b Elisabeth (1592–1646) ⚭ 1612 Graf Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg
Elisabeth zur Lippe (* 9. Juli 1592; † 19. Juni 1646) war gewählte Äbtissin im Stift Freckenhorst. Wegen der widrigen Verhältnisse übte sie ihr Amt aber nicht aus. Ab 1612 wurde sie durch Heirat zur Gräfin von Holstein-Schaumburg.
Am 12. September 1612 heiratete Elisabeth auf Schloss Brake den Grafen Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg (1577–1616) aus der Gemener Line. EOL

IX c Ursula (1598–1638) ⚭ 1617 Graf Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar
Ursula zur Lippe (* 15. Februar 1598 auf Schloss Brake in Lemgo; † 27. Juli 1638 in Hadamar) war durch Heirat Gräfin von Nassau-Hadamar.
Am 26. August 1617 heiratete sie in Detmold den Grafen Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar, mit dem sie 21 Jahre lang verheiratet war.

X a Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar (* 17. Januar 1619 in Dillenburg; † 2. März 1647 in Harzgerode) war Gemahlin von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode und damit Fürstin von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode.
Die Hochzeit erfolgte am 10. August 1642 in Bückeburg.

XI a Elisabeth Charlotte von Anhalt-Harzgerode (* 11. Februar 1647 in Harzgerode; † 20. Januar 1723 in Schloss Østerholm auf Alsen) war durch Heirat zunächst Fürstin von Anhalt-Köthen und dann Herzogin von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.
Sie war die Tochter von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Harzgerode und dessen erster Frau Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar. Sie war zunächst seit 1663 verheiratet mit Wilhelm Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen, wurde 1665 Witwe und heiratete 1666 August von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.

XII a Dorothea Johanna (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727) ⚭ Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg (1670–1724)
[Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg] verheiratete sich am 13. Januar 1699 in Harzgerode mir Prinzessin Dorothea Johanna von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727), einer Tochter von Herzog August EOL

X b Sophia Magdalena (1622–1658), ⚭ Fürst Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg (1594–1662)
Sofie Magdalena von Nassau-Dillenburg (* 6. Februar 1622 in Hadamar; † 28. Juni 1658 in Dillenburg) war durch Heirat Fürstin von Nassau-Dillenburg.
1656 heiratete sie ihren Cousin, den 1652 gefürsteten Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg. Der Ehe, des Fürsten dritter,[1] entstammten die Kinder August (1657–1680), Karl (1658–1659) und Ludwig (1658–1658).[2] Sie starb kurz nach der Geburt der Zwillinge Karl und Ludwig. EOL

IX d Sophie (1599–1653) ⚭ 1626 Fürst Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen
Am 8. September 1625 starb Amoena Amalia im Alter von 39 Jahren. Nach Ablauf des obligaten Trauerjahres heiratete Fürst Ludwig am 12. September 1626 Sophie, Tochter von Graf Simon VI. zur Lippe. Mit ihr hatte er ebenfalls einen Sohn, Fürst Wilhelm Ludwig. EOL

IV b Katharina of Thuringia (1453 – 10 July 1534), who married Duke Henry II of Münsterberg and who has surviving descendants, mainly among Bohemian high nobility.
In 1471, Henry the Younger married Catherine, the daughter of William III, Landgrave of Thuringia.

V c Henry had a daughter Anna (1471–1517), who married in 1493 with Henry IV of Neuhaus.
Henry's first marriage was with Elizabeth of Sternberg; his second wife was Agnes of Cimburg (d. 1485). His third marriage was with Magdalena of Gleichen, and after her death in 1492, he married Anna of Poděbrady, the daughter of Duke Henry the Younger Münsterberg-Oels

VI c Anna († 1570), verheiratet in erster Ehe mit Hynek Boček von Kunstadt († 1518); in zweiter Ehe mit Ladislav von Sternberg auf Bechyně († 1521) und in dritter Ehe mit Heinrich VII. von Rosenberg (1496–1526) EOL

III b Elizabeth of Austria (German: Elisabeth von Habsburg; Polish: Elżbieta Rakuszanka; Lithuanian: Elžbieta Habsburgaitė; c. 1436 – 30 August 1505) was Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania as the wife of King Casimir IV of Poland.
In August 1452, preparing for the Thirteen Years' War (1454–66) with the Teutonic Knights, the Poles sent an embassy to Vienna to once again negotiate marriage between Elisabeth and now-king Casimir IV of Poland.[13] Ulrich II, Count of Celje, who now had custody of Elisabeth, received the proposal favorably and sent two of his men to Poland. The formal wedding agreement was reached in August 1453 in Wrocław in the presence of Polish and Austrian nobles.
Elisabeth arrived to Poland in February 1454 with a retinue of nine hundred riders.[14] Reportedly, Casimir was informed that Elisabeth was not an attractive lady and was reconsidering the marriage, but bowed to the pressure of his court.[19] On February 9, Elisabeth arrived at Kraków and was met by Casimir and his mother Sophia of Halshany. The next day, 18-year-old Elisabeth married 27-year-old Casimir and was crowned Queen of Poland. [Or 17 year old, if born later in 1436 than early February]

IV c Hedwig Jagiellon (Polish: Jadwiga Jagiellonka, Lithuanian: Jadvyga Jogailaitė, German: Hedwig Jagiellonica; 21 September 1457 – 18 February 1502), baptized as "Hedwigis", was a Polish princess and member of the Jagiellonian dynasty, as well as Duchess of Bavaria by marriage.
Matthias Corvinus asked the hand of Hedwig again in July 1471 and in September 1473 until finally, a definitive refusal was made by Queen Elizabeth. At the beginning of 1473, two counselors sent by Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria-Munich arrived in Poland with a marriage proposal; however, Casimir IV refused the offer because at that time, he was already negotiating a marriage between his eldest daughter and George, son and heir of Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut.
Hedwig arrived with her family in Poznań, where on 10 October 1475, she said goodbye to them. With a large retinue of approximately 1,200 knights, she arrived in Wittenberg on 23 October. She was accompanied, among others, by Anna, widow of Bolesław II, Duke of Cieszyn.
On 14 November 1475, Hedwig and her retinue finally arrived in Landshut, an event which inspired the famous medieval pageant Landshut Wedding. The wedding ceremony took place that day at St. Martin's Church, with the service being officiated by Bernhard von Rohr, Archbishop of Salzburg.

V d Elisabeth of Bavaria-Landshut (1478 – 15 September 1504), married on 10 February 1499 to Rupert, Count Palatine of the Rhine. EOL 27)

IV d Sophia (6 May 1464 – 5 October 1512), married on 14 February 1479 to Frederick I, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach. ///

V e Sophia of Brandenburg-Ansbach (10 March 1485 – 24 May 1537), married on 14 November 1518 to Duke Frederick II of Legnica.

VI d Sophie (1525–1546)
married in 1545 Elector John George of Brandenburg (1525-1598) EOL 5)

V f Anna of Brandenburg-Ansbach (5 May 1487 – 7 February 1539), married on 1 December 1518 to Duke Wenceslaus II of Cieszyn. EOL

V g Elisabeth of Brandenburg-Ansbach (25 March 1494 – 31 May 1518), married on 29 September 1510 to Margrave Ernest of Baden-Durlach. 3)

VI e Anna (April 1512 – after 1579) married on 11 February 1537 to Count Charles I of Hohenzollern (1516 – 8 March 1576) EOL

VI f Amalie (February 1513; died 1594) married in 1561 to Count Frederick II of Löwenstein (22 August 1528 – 5 June 1569) EOL

VI g Maria Jacobea (October 1514; died: 1592) married in February 1577 to Count Wolfgang II of Barby (11 December 1531 – 23 March 1615) EOL

VI h Marie Cleopha (September 1515 – 28 April 1580) married in 1548 to Count William of Schultz (died circa 1566) EOL

VI i Elizabeth (20 May 1516; died: 9 May 1568), married:
in 1533 to Count Gabriel von Salamanca-Ortenburg (died: December 1539) EOL
on 30 July 1543 to Count Conrad II of Castell (10 July 1519 – 8 July 1577)

V h Barbara of Brandenburg-Ansbach (24 September 1495 – 23 September 1552), married on 26 July 1528 to Landgrave George III of Leuchtenberg.

VI j Elisabeth (1537/8-1579)
married in 1559 to Count John VI of Nassau-Dillenburg (1536-1606)

VII d Elisabeth (1564-1611), married in 1583 with Philip IV, Count of Nassau-Weilburg and in 1603 with Wolfgang Ernst I of Isenburg-Büdingen-Birstein, EOL

VII e Maria (1568-1625), married John Louis I of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein,
Maria married John Louis I, Count of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein in 1588

VIII c Margaretha (1589-1660), married in 1606 to Adolph of Bentheim

VIII d Anna Catharina (1590-1622), married in 1607 to Count Simon VII "the Pious" of Lippe

IX e Mary Elizabeth (1611-1667) married in 1649 to Count Christian Frederick of Mansfeld-Hinterort (1615-1666)

IX f Anna Catherine (1612-1659) married in Prince Frederick von Anhalt-Harzgerode (1613-1670)
In Bückeburg on 10 August 1642 Frederick married Johanna Elisabeth (b. Dillenburg, 7 January 1619 – d. Harzgerode, 2 March 1647), daughter of John Louis, Prince of Nassau-Hadamar.

X c Elisabeth Charlotte (b. Harzgerode, 11 February 1647 – d. Osterholm, 20 January 1723), married on 25 August 1663 to William Louis, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen, then for a second time on 6 October 1666 to Augustus, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg.

XI b Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), married Prince William II of Nassau-Dillenburg (1670-1724)
He married on 13 January 1699 in Harzgerode to Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), the daughter of Duke Augustus of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg. EOL

IV e Anna (12 March 1476 – 12 August 1503), married on 2 February 1491 to Bogislaw X, Duke of Pomerania

V i Anna of Pomerania (1492 – 25 April 1550), married on 9 June 1516 to Duke George I of Brieg. EOL

V j Sophie of Pomerania (1498 – 13 May 1568), married on 9 October 1518 to Frederick, Duke of Holstein-Schleswig, who became King Frederick I of Denmark in 1523.

VI k Elizabeth (14 October 1524 – 15 October 1586), married:
on 26 August 1543 to Duke Magnus III of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
on 14 February 1556 to Ulrich, Duke of Mecklenburg

VII f Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (Sophia; 4 September 1557 – 14 October 1631) was Queen of Denmark and Norway by marriage to Frederick II of Denmark. She was the mother of King Christian IV of Denmark and Anne of Denmark. She was Regent of Schleswig-Holstein from 1590 to 1594.[1]
At the age of fourteen Sophie, on 20 July 1572, married Frederick II of Denmark in Copenhagen; he was thirty-eight. She was crowned the following day.[17]

VIII e Elisabeth of Denmark (25 August 1573 – 19 July 1625) was duchess consort of Brunswick-Lüneburg as married to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg. She was regent of the Duchy of Brunswick-Lüneburg in place of her incapacitated son Frederick Ulrich, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg in 1616–1622.
She was married on 19 April 1590 at Kronborg Castle to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg.

IX g Sophia Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (20 February 1592 – 23 January 1642), married Ernest Casimir, Prince of Nassau-Dietz
On 8 June 1607, Sophie Hedwig married Count Ernest Casimir I of Nassau-Dietz (1573–1632). EOL

IX h Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (23 June 1593 – 25 March 1650), married Augustus, Duke of Saxony, and John Philip, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg
Elisabeth married first on 1 January 1612 in Dresden, to Duke August of Saxony (1589–1615), the administrator of the diocese of Naumburg. August suddenly died at the age of 26, after only three years of marriage.
From her second marriage, Elisabeth had only one surviving daughter

X d Elisabeth Sophie of Saxe-Altenburg (10 October 1619 – 20 December 1680), was a princess of Saxe-Altenburg and, by marriage, duchess of Saxe-Gotha.
In Altenburg on 24 October 1636, Elisabeth Sophie married her kinsman Ernst I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha. As a dowry, she received 20,000 guilders, who were pledged by the town of Roßla. As Widow's seat, the bride obtained the towns of Kapellendorf and Berka, with the latter called Gartenhaus in Weimar.

XI c Elisabeth Dorothea (b. Coburg, 8 January 1640 – d. Butzbach, 24 August 1709), married on 5 December 1666 to Louis VI, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.

XII b Sophie Luise (1670–1758)
⚭ 1688 Fürst Albrecht Ernst II. von Oettingen-Oettingen (1669–1731)

XIII a Die einzige Tochter Elisabeth Friederike (1691–1758) heiratete 1713 Karl Ludwig Graf zu Hohenlohe-Neuenstein-Gleichen (Hohenlohe-Weikersheim; 1674–1756), 1726–1729 Direktor des Fränkischen Reichsgrafenkollegiums,[4] Sohn des Grafen Johann Friedrich von Hohenlohe, der ein Enkel des Wolfgang II. von Hohenlohe war, und der Luise Amöne, einer Tochter des Herzogs Friedrich von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.[5] EOL

XII c Elisabeth Dorothea (1676–1721)
⚭ 1700 Landgraf Friedrich III. Jakob von Hessen-Homburg (1673–1746) EOL

IX i Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 February 1595 – 26 June 1650), married Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania
Hedwig married on 7 February 1619 in Wolfenbüttel to Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania (1589–1622), Bishop of Cammin. The wedding feast was very costly; it was attended by 16 ruling princes. The marriage lasted only three years and remained childless. EOL

IX j Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (8 July 1596 – 1 September 1643), married Christian William of Brandenburg, son of Joachim III Frederick, Elector of Brandenburg
His first wedding took place on 1 January 1615 in Wolfenbüttel, where he married Dorothea (1596-1643), a daughter of the Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel.

X e Sophie Elisabeth of Brandenburg (1 February 1616 at Moritzburg Castle in Halle – 16 March 1650 at Altenburg Castle) was a Princess of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage Duchess of Saxe-Altenburg.
She married on 18 September 1638 in Altenburg to Duke Frederick William II of Saxe-Altenburg (1603-1669). The marriage was described as a happy one; however, it remained childless. EOL

IX k Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 May 1612 – 17 February 1673), married George Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg
George Louis married on 19 February 1638 in Coppenbrügge to Princess Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1612–1673),[2] the daughter of Henry Julius, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel and Elizabeth of Denmark

X f Elisabeth Charlotte (1643–1686), married to Count Ferdinand Gobert von Aspremont-Lynden
In 1680, Ferdinand Gobert was firstly married Princess Charlotte von Nassau-Dillenburg (1643–1686), daughter of George Louis, Prince of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL

VIII f Anne of Denmark (Danish: Anna; 12 December 1574 – 2 March 1619) was the wife of King James VI and I; as such, she was Queen of Scotland from their marriage on 20 August 1589 and Queen of England and Ireland from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until her death in 1619.[1]

IX l Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia (19 August 1596 – 13 February 1662). Married 1613, Frederick V, Elector Palatine. Died aged 65.
Elizabeth was born at Dunfermline Palace, Fife, on 19 August 1596 at 2 o'clock in the morning.
The wedding took place on 14 February 1613 at the royal chapel at the Palace of Whitehall and was a grand occasion that saw more royalty than ever visit the court of England.

X g Henriette Marie of the Palatinate (7 July 1626 – 18 September 1651); married Prince Sigismund Rákóczi, brother of George II Rákóczi, Prince of Transylvania, on 16 June 1651 EOL

X h Sophia, Electress of Hanover (14 October 1630 – 8 June 1714); married Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover, had issue, including King George I of Great Britain. Many other royal families are Sophia's, and therefore, Elizabeth's, descendants. Sophia came close to ascending to the British throne, but died two months before Queen Anne.
On 30 September 1658, she married Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg, at Heidelberg, who in 1692 became the first Elector of Hanover.

XI d Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (30 October 1668 – 1 February 1705) was the first Queen consort in Prussia as wife of King Frederick I. She was the only daughter of Elector Ernest Augustus of Hanover and his wife Sophia of the Palatinate. Her eldest brother, George Louis, succeeded to the British throne in 1714 as King George I.
By marrying Frederick on 8 October 1684, she became Electress of Brandenburg in 1688, and after the elevation of Brandenburg-Prussia to a kingdom in 1701, she became the first Queen in Prussia. EOL

VIII g Princess Augusta of Denmark (8 April 1580 – 5 February 1639) was the Duchess of Holstein-Gottorp as the wife of Duke John Adolf. She was the third daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophia of Mecklenburg-Güstrow. She was politically influential during the reign of her son, Duke Frederick III.
She was married on 30 August 1596 in Copenhagen to her parents' cousin Duke John Adolf of Holstein-Gottorp (1575–1616) and had eight children.

IX m Elisabeth Sofie (12 October 1599 – 25 November 1627), married on 5 March 1621 to Duke Augustus of Saxe-Lauenburg.

X i Anna Elisabeth (23 August 1624 – 27 May 1688, Philippseck Castle in today's Butzbach), married on 2 April 1665 in Lübeck, divorced in 1672, William Christoph, Landgrave of Hesse-Homburg EOL

X j Sibylle Hedwig (30 July 1625 – 1 August 1703, Ratzeburg), married in 1654 her half-cousin Francis Erdmann, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg

IX n Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682), married in 1633 to Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön, son of John II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg.
Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682) was a German noblewoman from the House of (Schleswig-)Holstein-Gottorp, a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg. She became the first Duchess of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön[1] as the wife of Duke Joachim Ernest (1595–1671).
In 1633, she married Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.

X k Duchess Agnes Hedwig of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (29 September 1640 – 20 November 1698), who married Christian, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg and had issue

X l Duchess Sophia Eleonora of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (30 July 1644 – 22 January 1689), who married Wolfgang Julius, Count of Hohenlohe-Neuenstein and had no issue
He married twice. On 25 August 1666 he married Sophie Eleanor of Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1 August 1644, Plön – 22 January 1689, Neuenstein), daughter of Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1622–1671). EOL

IX o Hedwig (23 December 1603 – 22 March 1657), married on 15 July 1620 to Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach.

X m Augusta Sophie (22 November 1624 – 30 April 1682), married Václav Eusebius František, Prince of Lobkowicz
His second marriage was on 6 February 1653 with Auguste Sophie von Pfalz-Sulzbach (1624–1682), daughter of Duke Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach. EOL

VIII h Princess Hedwig of Denmark (5 August 1581 – 26 November 1641) was the youngest daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow, and Electress of Saxony from 1602 to 1611 as the wife of Christian II. The marriage was childless, and her husband was succeeded by his brother John George. After Christian's death in 1611, the Dowager Electress Hedwig held a powerful position in Saxony.
She was married on 12 September 1602 to Christian II, Elector of Saxony, her first cousin once removed, in Dresden. EOL

VI l Dorothea (1528 – 11 November 1575), married on 27 October 1573 to Duke Christof of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL

IV f Barbara (15 July 1478 – 15 February 1534), married on 21 November 1496 to George, Duke of Saxony

+ her sister:
IV g Elizabeth (13 November 1482 – 16 February 1517), married on 25 November 1515 to Frederick II, Duke of Legnica EOL

V k Christine of Saxony (25 December 1505 – 15 April 1549); married on 11 December 1523 to Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.

VI m Agnes (31 May 1527 – 4 November 1555), married:
in Marburg on 9 January 1541 to Maurice, Elector of Saxony;
in Weimar on 26 May 1555 to John Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha.

VII g Anna of Saxony (23 December 1544 – 18 December 1577) was the heiress of Maurice, Elector of Saxony, and Agnes, eldest daughter of Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.
On 2 June 1561 the marriage contract was signed in Torgau. Anna's dowry would be the large sum of 100,000 thalers. The wedding took place on 24 August 1561 in Leipzig. On 1 September 1561 William of Orange, along with his young wife, relocated to the Netherlands.

VIII i Anna (Breda, 5 November 1563 – Franeker, 13 June 1588), married on 25 November 1587 to William Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL

VIII j Emilia (Köln, 10 April 1569 – Geneva, 6 March 1629), married on 7 November 1597 to Manuel of Portugal.

IX p Maria Belgica of Portugal (born before 12 October 1598[2] – 28 July 1647), married in June 1629 to Colonel Theodor Croll (died 1640 in Venice [murdered]), Quartermaster general of Duke Odoardo Farnese, Duke of Parma.

X n Emilia Catharina Croll, married Claude d'Amond in 1653 and had a daughter, Juliana Catharina.
X o Anna Rosine Croll, married Jean des Vignes, head of the court of Genoiller in 1653. They had two sons.
X p Susanne Sidonia Croll, married 1) Jean François Badel and 2) Vincent Ardin. She had children from both marriages.

IX Mauritia Eleonora of Portugal (born before 10 May 1609[2] – 25 June 1674), married to Count George Frederick of Nassau-Siegen on 4 June 1647 in The Hague, no children. EOL

VI n Anna (26 October 1529 – 10 July 1591), married on 24 February 1544 to Wolfgang, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken.

VII h Barbara (1559–1618)
married in 1591 Count Gottfried of Oettingen-Oettingen (1554–1622) EOL

VII i Maria Elisabeth (1561–1629)
married in 1585 Count Emich XII of Leiningen-Dagsburg-Hardenburg (1562–1607)

VI o Barbara (8 April 1536 – 8 June 1597), married:
in Reichenweier on 10 September 1555 to Duke George I of Württemberg-Mömpelgard;
in Kassel on 11 November 1568 to Count Daniel of Waldeck. EOL

VI p Elisabeth (13 February 1539 – 14 March 1582), married on 8 July 1560 to Louis VI, Elector Palatine.

VII j Anna Marie (1561–1589), married Charles IX of Sweden
Maria of the Palatinate (24 July 1561 – 29 July 1589), also known as Anna Maria, was a Swedish princess and Duchess of Södermanland by marriage, the first spouse of the future King Charles IX of Sweden. She died before he became king.
The wedding took place in Heidelberg 11 May 1579. Afterwards, she followed him to Sweden, where they resided in his Duchy in Södermanland. They left Germany in July, and in September 1579, Maria received the oath of loyalty from the subjects in her dower lands Gripsholm, Tynnelsö and Rävsnäs estates, Strängnäs city with the parishes Åkers, Selebo and Daga as well as Överenhörna and Ytterenhörna.

VII k Catherine of Sweden (Swedish: Katarina; 10 November 1584 – 13 December 1638) was a Swedish princess and a Countess Palatine of Zweibrücken as the consort of her second cousin John Casimir of Palatinate-Zweibrücken.
She is known as the periodical foster-mother of Queen Christina of Sweden and the mother of Charles X of Sweden.
The marriage took place on 11 June 1615 in Stockholm.

VIII k Christina Magdalena (27 May 1616 - 14 August 1662); married Frederick VI, Margrave of Baden-Durlach. King Adolf Frederick of Sweden was her great-grandson.
The wedding, held in Stockholm, was postponed until 30 November 1642 after a fire broke out at the ball before their designated wedding date on 26 November.

IX q Christine (1645–1705)
∞ 1. 1665 Albert II, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1620–1667)
∞ 2. 1681 Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646–1691)
Christine von Baden-Durlach (* 22. April 1645; † 21. Dezember 1705) war durch Heirat Markgräfin von Ansbach sowie später Herzogin von Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg.
Seine dritte Ehe schloss er am 6. August 1665 in Durlach mit Christine (1645–1705), Tochter des Markgrafen Friedrich VI. von Baden-Durlach. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. EOL

IX r Johanna Elizabeth of Baden-Durlach (born: 6 November 1651; died: 28 September 1680), married on 26 January 1673 the Margrave John Frederick of Brandenburg-Ansbach (born: 4 October 1654; died: 22 March 1686) (→ Ancestors of the Swedish kings of the House of Bernadotte, by Charles XV of Sweden's and Oscar II's mother, Josephine of Leuchtenberg, as was their daughter's daughter was her granddaughter)

X q Margravine Dorothea Friederike of Brandenburg-Ansbach (12 August 1676 – 13 March 1731) married Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg and had issue, including Charlotte of Hanau, wife of Louis VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.
On 20 (or 30) August 1699, Dorothea Friederike married Count Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg.

XI e Countess Charlotte of Hanau-Lichtenberg, full name: Countess Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau-Lichtenberg (2 May 1700, Bouxwiller – 1 July 1726, Darmstadt) was the wife of landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt.
The second candidate was the crown prince and later Landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt, who was Lutheran. They were married on 5 April 1717.

XII d Princess Caroline Louise of Hesse-Darmstadt (11 July 1723 – 8 April 1783), was a consort of Baden, a dilettante artist, scientist, collector and salonist.
The daughter of Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt and Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau, she married on January 28, 1751, to Charles Frederick, Margrave of Baden. EOL

VIII l Maria Eufrosyne (14 February 1625 - 24 October 1687); married Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie.
Maria Euphrosyne of Zweibrücken (14 February 1625 – 24 October 1687) was a countess palatine, a cousin and foster-sibling of Queen Christina of Sweden, and a sister of King Charles X of Sweden. She was also, after the accession of her brother Charles X on the throne (1654), a titular Royal Princess of Sweden.
On 15 March 1645, Maria Euphrosyne was engaged to the Queen's favorite Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie, and on 7 March 1647, she married him in the Royal Chapel of Tre Kronor (castle) in Stockholm. The marriage was arranged by Christina.

IX t Katharina Charlotte (1655–1697)
⚭ 1682 Graf Otto Wilhelm von Königsmarck (1639–1688)
Gräfin Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (* 18. März 1654/55; † 15. September 1697) war die Ehefrau des venezianischen Generalissimus und Kriegshelden Otto Wilhelm Graf von Königsmarck, den sie am 9. Februar 1682 heiratete. EOL

IX u Ebba Hedwig (1659–1700)
⚭ 1684 Graf Karl Gustav Oxenstierna (1655–1686)

X r Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (1655–1697), gift 1682 med greve Otto Wilhelm Königsmarck; barnlös

X s Hedvig Ebba De la Gardie (1657–1700), gift 1684 med greve Carl Gustaf Oxenstierna af Södermöre; en son som avled barnlös.

VIII m Eleonora Catherine (17 May 1626 - 3 March 1692); married Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege.
The negotiations concerning her marriage with Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege, son of Maurice, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, started in 1643. The landgrave was a second cousin of both her parents and nine years her senior. The negotiation process was difficult, but finally completed in June 1646. She was granted a fortune of 20,000 gulden by her father. The marriage took place at Tre Kronor in Stockholm on 6 September 1646.

IX v Christine (b. Kassel, 30 October 1649 – d. Bevern, 18 March 1702), married in 1667 to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Bevern.
Christine von Hessen (30 October 1648 – 18 March 1702) was a German noblewoman, belonging to the Hessen-Eschwege branch of the Hessen-Rotenburg line of the House of Hesse. Through her marriage on 25 November 1667 in Eschwege to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1636-1687), she became Duchess-Consort of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel-Bevern. EOL

IX w Juliana (b. Eschwege, 14 May 1652 – d. IJsselstein, 20 June 1693), prospective bride of Charles XI of Sweden; married in 1680 Johann Jakob Marchand, Baron of Lilienburg.
Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege (14 May 1652 – 20 June 1693) was a German noblewoman. In her teens she was brought up at the Swedish royal court as the future queen of King Charles XI of Sweden, her cousin. However, on two occasions before the wedding Juliana became pregnant, and the engagement was eventually broken off. In 1679 or 1680, Juliana married a Dutchman and lived the rest of her life in the Netherlands, while Charles XI married Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark in 1680.
[I'll count the affair as a possible first marriage, so, she was between 19-20 and 27-28 when she married: low count 19, high count 28,]

X t Eleonora (4 May 1683, IJsselstein – after 22 November 1707, Bremen?), married on 21 October 1704 in IJsselstein Mr. Johan Spiering (6 November 1672, Utrecht – 22 July 1739, Amsterdam), son of Francois Ewoutsz. Spiering and Elisabeth Maria van Someren

X u Juliana (baptised 4 May 1684, IJsselstein – 24 November 1726, Jever), married in 1707 Ulrich Friedrich von Weltzien, Herr von Blexersande

IX x Charlotte (b. Eschwege, 3 September 1653 – d. Bremen, 7 February 1708), married firstly in 1673 with Prince August of Saxe-Weissenfels (son of Duke August) and secondly in 1679 with John Adolph, Count of Bentheim-Tecklenburg (divorced 1693).
On 25 August 1673 in Halle, he married Charlotte, the daughter of Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege from his marriage to Countess Palatine Eleonora Catherine of Zweibrücken, the daughter of John Casimir, Count Palatine of Kleeburg. After August's death, Charlotte married Count John Adolph of Bentheim-Tecklenburg, from whom she later divorces. EOL

VI q Christine (29 June 1543 – 13 May 1604), married in Gottorp on 17 December 1564 to Adolf, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp.

VII l Sophia (1 June 1569 – 14 November 1634), married on 17 February 1588 to John VII, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL

VII m Christina (13 April 1573 – 8 December 1625), married on 27 August 1592 to King Charles IX of Sweden.

VIII n Maria Elizabeth (10 March 1596– 7 August 1618), married her first cousin John, Duke of Östergötland, youngest son of John III of Sweden
On 29 November 1612, at the age of sixteen, Princess Maria Elizabeth celebrated her wedding to the Duke of Ostrogothia in the royal palace Tre Kronor in Stockholm.
.... The royal couple ruled quite independently in their Duchy. John had the right to issue new laws, and Maria Elizabeth evidently had influence on his rule. During the six years they lived together in Ostrogothia, a witch hunt was conducted in the duchy, for which they, and Maria Elizabeth in particular, are considered to be responsible. EOL

VII n Anna (27 February 1575 – 24 April 1625), married 28 January 1598 to Count Enno III of Ostfriesland.
On 28 January 1598, she married Count Enno III of Ostfriesland, elder son of Count Edzard II of Ostfriesland and his wife Princess Katarina of Sweden, eldest daughter of King Gustav I of Sweden

VIII o Anna Maria, Countess of Ostfriesland (1601–1633), married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658)
Anna Maria of Ostfriesland (23 June 1601 – 15 February 1634) was a German noblewoman.
On 4 September 1622 she married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658).

IX y Anna Maria of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1 July 1627 – 11 December 1669), married Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels (ancestors of George III of the United Kingdom).
On 23 November 1647, in Schwerin, Anna Maria married Augustus, second surviving son of Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony, and moved with her husband to Halle, the main city of his domains as Administrator of the Archbishopric of Magdeburg. During her marriage, she bore twelve children, including three daughters who died in infancy in 1663

X v Magdalene Sibylle (b. Halle, 2 September 1648 - d. Gotha, 7 January 1681), married on 14 November 1669 to Duke Frederick I of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg.

XI e Anna Sophie (b. Gotha, 22 December 1670 – d. Rudolstadt, 28 December 1728), married on 15 October 1691 to Louis Frederick I, Prince of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.

XII e Princess Anna Sophie of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt (9 September 1700 – 11 December 1780)[1] was a Princess of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.
On 2 January 1723 in Rudolstadt, she married Franz Josias, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld.

XIII b Princess Charlotte Sophie of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 September 1731 – Schwerin, 2 August 1810); married on 13 May 1755 Duke Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

XIII c Princess Friederike Caroline of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 June 1735 – Schloß Schwaningen, 18 February 1791), married on 22 November 1754 Karl Alexander, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach.

XI f Dorothea Marie (b. Gotha, 22 January 1674 – d. Meiningen, 18 April 1713), married on 19 September 1704 to Ernst Ludwig I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen.

XII f Luise Dorothea (b. Meiningen, 7 December 1710 d. Gotha, 22 October 1771) married on 17 September 1729 to Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg EOL

XI g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 24 March 1675 – d. Karlsbad, 28 May 1709), married on 25 May 1702 to Johann August, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. EOL

XI h Johanna (b. Gotha, 1 October 1680 – d. Strelitz, 9 July 1704), married on 20 June 1702 to Adolf Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. EOL

X w Sophie (b. Halle, 23 June 1654 - d. Zerbst, 31 March 1724), married on 18 June 1676 to Karl, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst.

XI i Magdalena Augusta (1679–1740), Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst married Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg
Princess Magdalena Augusta of Anhalt-Zerbst (13 October 1679 – 11 October 1740) was, by birth, a Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst and, by marriage, a Duchess of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. She was the maternal grandmother of George III of the United Kingdom.
In 1696, Magdalena Augusta married her first cousin, Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, who had become Duke in 1691.

XII g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 17 July 1715 – d. Langensalza, 12 May 1775), married on 27 November 1734 to Johann Adolf II, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels.

XII h Augusta (b. Gotha, 30 November 1719 – d. Carlton House, 8 February 1772), married on 8 May 1736 to Frederick, Prince of Wales. They had 9 children; their second child later became King George III of Great Britain.

X x Christine (b. Halle, 25 August 1656 - d. Eutin, 27 April 1698), married on 21 June 1676 to August Friedrich of Holstein-Gottorp, Prince-Bishop of Lübeck (son of Frederick III, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, and his wife Duchess Marie Elisabeth of Saxony). No issue. EOL

V l Magdalena of Saxony (7 March 1507 – 25 January 1534); married on 6 November 1524 to Joachim Hector, then Electoral Prince of Brandenburg.

VI r Barbara of Brandenburg, Duchess of Brieg (1527–1595), had issue
Barbara of Brandenburg (10 August 1527 – Brzeg, 2 January 1595), was a German princess member of the House of Hohenzollern She was a Margravine of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage a Duchess of Brieg (Brzeg).
In 1537 Barbara was betrothed to George (later George II the Pious), second son of Duke Frederick II of Legnica as a part of the alliance signed between her father and Frederick II.[1] The wedding took place eight years later, on 15 February 1545 in her homeland, Berlin.

13 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18 18 18
12 13 13 14 14 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18
01 02 03 04 10 11 12 13 14 22 23 26 27 31 32 34 35

18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 22 23 23 23 24 24 24 25 25 25
18 18 18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 23 23 23 23 24 24 24 25
43 44 47 48 53 54 59 60 64 65 68 69 70 77 78 80 81 86 87 88 91 92 95 96 97 99 00

[the following = above 100]

26 26 27 27 27 27 28 28 28
25 26 26 26 27 27 27 28 28
01 02 03 08 09 10 11 12 14

29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 34 37 38 38 40 45 48 63
28 29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 36 38 38 40 44 48 63
15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Minimum 12 or 13.
Lower Quartile, 17:18 or 18.
Median, 20 or 21.
Higher Quartile, 25:26 or 26.
Maximum 63.

This is pretty firmly placed in the Modern Ages, the medium year (I had 276 years instead of an expected 270, years of birth and of marriage of each) is 1598~1599.

In Modern Ages and some Protestant contexts, the age of marriage rises.

In all these genealogies, this is also the first one in which I saw a single pre-marital affair, that of Juliana, daughter of Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege, and, more importantly from our perspective, of his wife Eleonora Catherine of Palatinate Zweibrücken, who for this reason did not become queen consort of our King Charles XI. And this is precisely my problem with rising ages of marriage, it makes waiting till one is married harder and harder, and therefore promotes promiscuity. In some contexts that leads further to abortion, contraception, perversions.

Hans Georg Lundahl
St. Bibiana of Rome
Virgin and Martyr

Sunday, November 26, 2023

A German Antisemite Prayed for This

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: A German Antisemite Prayed for This · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: I think one should take a look at this, and hear carefully · Commenting on Fr. JM and Kennedy Hall

No, not the guys who had just committed a pogrom near like Constance.*

I mean a man of the Church who told them, "you can't do this, it is sinful" ...

And the prayer was heard:

An American Tail (1986) - There Are No Cats In America Scene (2/10) | Movieclips
Movieclips, 25 March 2019

He was basically saying, "well, as we can't really hope they'll be very good Christians" (what an Antisemitic thing to say!), "let's pray for them to get a country across the sea ..."

Fiat Mouskevitch, et Mouskevitch factus est./HGL

* I think this link would be the correct one, but cannot verify, since I was blocked:

On February 22, 1349, the Jews of Schaffhausen were rounded up and burned to death as part of the Black Plague persecution, in which the Jews were accused of ...

Schaffhausen Massacre: Most Up-to-Date Encyclopedia, ...

This happened when I tried to click:

This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data.

Wednesday, November 22, 2023

This is not one of the last Scandinavians I Like, as by Personal Affection

But she is definitely one of the last Scandinavians I know by name and of which I wholeheartedly approve.

CHRISTINA OF MILAN: the girl who escaped Henry VIII. European royal history documentary. Royal women
History Calling | 13 Jan. 2023

God rest her soul, if she still needs it, and if not, let her dispose of my prayer if it have any merit!/HGL

PS, Nordic, not really Scandinavian, except as ruler of, since she was Danish and not from Scania./HGL

No, Churchill was not THAT guy

W 87  L 76  S 83  C 67  562
I 73  E 69  P 80  H 72  517
N 78  O 79  E 69  U 85  528
S 83  N 78  N 78  R 82  670
T 84  A 65  C 67  C 67
O 79  R 82  E 69  H 72
N 78  D 68  R 82  I 73
      L 76
      L 76
562  517  528  670  2277

What if we add spaces? 2277  2373  2849
Or lower case in given names? 0096  0576  0256
Or last name too? 2373  2849  3105

As I have previously stated, using ASCII for gematria is not likely to damn all and everyone just because you look at their name. I mean of course the name with the gematria mentioned in Apocalypse 13:18.

Even for those who have that gematria, that's not necessarily damning. On the other hand, if you find it in a politician or religious leader or big businessman, look out for whether what he's up to seems legit or not. There is one role, the Antichrist, perhaps two roles, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, who need this number in their gematria (I'm glad I don't have it!) and there are currently four people who have that gematria on the world scene, in ASCII:

  • Vladimir Putin has it in three gematrias ("WLADIMIRA", "VLADIMIRB", "V POUTINE")
  • Bergoglio in one (take that name and use only upper case letters)
  • a president of the US ("JRBIDENJR")
  • any male king of either England or Scotland after ASCII was invented ("ENGELSMAN", "skotte"; a ruling Queen would be an "ENGELSKA" or a "skotska" which also do not so add up).

What's up with "V POUTINE" and "VLADIMIRB"? Doesn't seem to mean anything?

"V. POUTINE" would be an initial and name of his in French. The dot or stop is in French called a point, so "V POUTINE" would incur that gematria by doing something point-less in a French speaking country.

"VLADIMIRB" would indeed mean nothing if you dissolve it as "Vladimirb". But what about "Vladimir B" = "Vladimir II"? Ah, we are talking. In his family-line he is the second known Vladimir (his father and grandfather are the only known ones before him, and only the father, not the grandfather, are named Vladimir). In all the history of Muscovy, even going back to Suzdal, he is the second ruler to be named Vladimir, the first one being Lenin. All Vladimirs in any Rus' before that, before the Russian Revolution, were in for instance Kyiv—and are more properly speaking referred to as Volodymyrs. Not in Suzdal or Vladimir-Suzdal (perhaps because they wanted to avoid being confused with their city) or in Moscow, or in Tver either. Nor any Czar. Only, first Lenin, now Putin./HGL

PS, 2849 is related to that number as a significant fraction, 77/18. Not sure that means anything./HGL

Sunday, November 19, 2023

You know your Great-Grandfather? You know you are better off than he?

Which one of them? You have one father, two grand-fathers, four great-grandfathers. I know two of mine, though I never met them.

Do you know your great-great-grandfather? You have 8 of those, so do I, and I know one, whom I also never met.

I bet you don't know your great-grandfather's great-grandfather (any of the 32) or such a one's great-grandfather (any of the 128). Neither do I.

But Charles III of the United Kingdom knows his great-grandfather's great-grandfather (on a purely paternal line) was Friedrich Karl Ludwig, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck.

Or if you prefer, Frederick Charles Lewis. (20 August 1757 – 24 April 1816)*

Friedrich Karl Ludwig was born in Königsberg, Kingdom of Prussia. At the age of two he lost his father who died from wounds he received in the battle of Kundersdorf. He joined the Prussian Army in 1777 upon the request of King Frederick the Great. By 1781 he was a staff officer in the Regiment von Schlieben and by 1787 he commanded a grenadier battalion based in Königsberg. He assisted in the suppression of the 1794 Kościuszko Uprising and was Governor of Kraków in 1795. He retired from Prussian service as a lieutenant general in 1797 and spent the rest of his life improving agriculture in Holstein. He died in Wellingsbüttel Manor, now part of Hamburg.

And he knows that one's greatgrandfather (also purely paternal) was Frederick Lewis, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck. (6 April 1653 – 7 March 1728)**

He was only the titular duke, because he did not inherit the domain of Beck. It had been inherited by Duke Frederick William I, the son of his elder brother, Duke August, in 1689.[1] Duke Frederick William I was killed in the Battle of Francavilla in Sicily in 1719, leaving a widow, née Marie Antoine called Antoinette Josepha Isnardi di Castello, Contessa di Sanfré (1692–1762), and two minor daughters.[1] Maria Antonia shared administration of Beck with her mother-in-law, Duchess Hedwig Louisa of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck (née Countess of Lippe-Bückeburg-Schaumburg).

In 1671 Frederick Louis became a cornet in the cavalry regiment von Eller in the army of Brandenburg-Prussia. In 1675 he participated in the Battle of Fehrbellin as a Rittmeister. The following year he was a colonel in the Holstein dragoons. Frederick Lewis was named lieutenant general and Governor of Wesel in 1690. Three years later he was appointed commanding general of the Duchy of Prussia.

On 17 January 1701 Frederick Lewis received the Order of the Black Eagle from the new King Frederick I of Prussia and shortly afterward was named Statthalter of the Kingdom of Prussia and Governor of Königsberg. During the War of the Spanish Succession, he participated in the Battle of Oudenarde in 1708, the Battle of Malplaquet in 1709, and the sieges of Lille, Mons, and Tournai. Frederick Louis was promoted to field marshal in 1713. The duke also secured neutrality for Prussia during much of the Great Northern War. He died in Königsberg and was buried alongside his wife in Königsberg Cathedral.

For his great-grand-mother's great-grand-mother, purely feminine line, he knows it is one Frances Webb. She has no wikipage, but her daughter Anne Caroline Salisbury (1805 – 3 May 1881) has.

So, you happen to know that one of your great-grand-fathers was worse off than you, materially? But are you sure he was better off than all of his own great-grand-fathers? Or than theirs? I am not.

So, progress has done your family good on the line of one great-grandfather up to yourself. Congratulations. But that doesn't mean progress never hurt your family. I am pretty sure it has on occasion hurt mine.

Hans Georg Lundahl
St. Felix of Valois

Sancti Felicis Valesii, Presbyteri et Confessoris, qui Ordinis sanctissimae Trinitatis redemptionis captivorum exstitit Fundator, ac pridie Nonas Novembris obdormivit in Domino.

PS can Tolkien have had some kind of help from this line, since he came from Prussia by family? Or ABBA, because they like Bouzouki?/HGL

* The one footnote cited by wiki in the passage is:
Albinus, Robert (1985). Lexikon der Stadt Königsberg Pr. und Umgebung (in German). Leer: Verlag Gerhard Rautenberg. p. 371. ISBN 3-7921-0320-6.
** The three footnotes of this other passage are:
Huberty, Michel; Alain Giraud; F. and B. Magdelaine (1994). L'Allemagne Dynastique Tome VII Oldenbourg (in French). France. pp. 79, 97, 118, 141. ISBN 2-901138-07-1.
Albinus, Robert (1985). Lexikon der Stadt Königsberg Pr. und Umgebung (in German). Leer: Verlag Gerhard Rautenberg. p. 371. ISBN 3-7921-0320-6.
Th. Hirsch (1878), "Friedrich Ludwig, Herzog von Schleswig-Holstein-Beck", Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie (ADB) (in German), vol. 8, Leipzig: Duncker & Humblot, p. 284

Saturday, November 18, 2023

"Most Enlightenment Thinkers Were Christians"

New blog on the kid: Swedes are Not Likely to be Anti-Black Racists · What Do I Mean by Fascist? · Φιλολoγικά / Philologica: "Most Enlightenment Thinkers Were Christians"

Quoted from an Andrew also nicknamed "Big Papa Fascist" ...

Some of the major figures of the Enlightenment included Cesare Beccaria, Denis Diderot, David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Montesquieu, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Adam Smith, Hugo Grotius, and Voltaire.

Let's take the list.

Cesare Beccaria,
believed in preferring long and drawn out humiliation over death penalty in peace time, and death penalty for potential figureheads of counter-revolutions in the case of being in a revolutionary situation—both of which principles were applied in the same order when Robespierre failed in abolishing death penalty and succeeded in getting King Lewis XVI and the Queen Marie Antoinette to the Guillotine. But what about his beliefs?

In his mid-twenties, Beccaria became close friends with Pietro and Alessandro Verri, two brothers who with a number of other young men from the Milan aristocracy, formed a literary society named "L'Accademia dei pugni" (the Academy of Fists), a playful name which made fun of the stuffy academies that proliferated in Italy and also hinted that relaxed conversations which took place in there sometimes ended in affrays. Much of its discussion focused on reforming the criminal justice system. Through this group Beccaria became acquainted with French and British political philosophers, such as Diderot, Helvétius, Montesquieu, and Hume. He was particularly influenced by Helvétius.

1/9 Non-Christian.

Denis Diderot,
was a notorious Atheist and materialist, like Helvétius. In ethics, he was promoting the attack on chastity.

2/9 Non-Christians.

David Hume,
claimed that miracles could never be verified, since any non-miraculous explanation would be more likely (any—no matter how unlikely, let that sink in).

3/9 Non-Christians.

Immanuel Kant,
apart from being influenced by Hume, claimed that the numinous was never incarnated in the phenomenal. A pretty direct rejection of the incarnation, and obviously of miracles. He contributed very much to the kind of not very Christian Protestantism which was the major religious support of Hitler, even before the NS religion itself.

4/9 Non-Christians.

was a Catholic living in a mixed marriage, and was buried in St. Sulpice. But his ideas on society sound more deterministics than actually Christian (he had Huguenot ancestry).

Another example of Montesquieu's anthropological thinking, outlined in The Spirit of Law and hinted at in Persian Letters, is his meteorological climate theory, which holds that climate may substantially influence the nature of man and his society, a theory also promoted by the French naturalist Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon. By placing an emphasis on environmental influences as a material condition of life, Montesquieu prefigured modern anthropology's concern with the impact of material conditions, such as available energy sources, organized production systems, and technologies, on the growth of complex socio-cultural systems.

He goes so far as to assert that certain climates are more favorable than others, the temperate climate of France being ideal. His view is that people living in very warm countries are "too hot-tempered", while those in northern countries are "icy" or "stiff". The climate of middle Europe is therefore optimal. On this point, Montesquieu may well have been influenced by a similar pronouncement in The Histories of Herodotus, where he makes a distinction between the "ideal" temperate climate of Greece as opposed to the overly cold climate of Scythia and the overly warm climate of Egypt. This was a common belief at the time, and can also be found within the medical writings of Herodotus' times, including the "On Airs, Waters, Places" of the Hippocratic corpus. One can find a similar statement in Germania by Tacitus, one of Montesquieu's favorite authors.

It is however not a specifically Christian belief, Herodotus and Hippocrates not being Christians, nor was Tacitus.

1/9 Christian.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau,
was a man who went back and forth between Catholicism and Protestantism. But yes, he was a Christian. Even if he was personally more interested in his love life.

2/9 Christians.

Adam Smith,
According to wiki, this is very debatable and indeed unknown.

1/9 ???

Hugo Grotius,
Definitely a Christian, but chronologically before the other "Enlightenment Thinkers" ... I would tend to place Grotius, Pascal, Décartes in the category of "Pre-Enlightenment" as much as I place Rousseau in the category of "Pre-Romanticism" ... but yes, if you include the Pre-Enlightenment, which apart from Grotius was not done on the list, then suddenly a majority are Christians.

3/9 Christians.

and Voltaire
Deist, anti-Catholic, anti-Christian.

5/9 Non-Christians.

As said, I make a difference between Enlightenment and Pre-Enlightenment. I would put the limit in Isaac Newton. Funny enough, for wikipedians who seem to make the same distinction, they included Hugo Grotius into Enlightenment rather than Pre-Enlightenment.

The Age of Enlightenment was preceded by and closely associated with the Scientific Revolution.[16] Earlier philosophers whose work influenced the Enlightenment included Francis Bacon, René Descartes, Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza, John Locke, Pierre Bayle, and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz.[17][18] Some of the major figures of the Enlightenment included Cesare Beccaria, Denis Diderot, David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Montesquieu, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Adam Smith, Hugo Grotius, and Voltaire.[19]

Age of Enlightenment
a linea Important intellectuals

Hans Georg Lundahl
Dedication of St. Peter's