Bible-Hub, Greek Interlinear, Matthew 6:7
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/6-7.htm
| Proseuchomenoi | Προσευχόμενοι | Praying |
| de | δὲ | now |
| mē | μὴ | not |
| 945 [e] | ||
| battalogēsēte | βατταλογήσητε, | |
| hōsper | ὥσπερ | like |
| hoi | οἱ | the |
| ethnikoi | ἐθνικοί, | pagans [gentiles] |
| dokousin | δοκοῦσιν | they think |
| gar | γὰρ | for |
| hoti | ὅτι | that |
| en | ἐν | in |
| tē | τῇ | the |
| 4180 [e] | ||
| polylogia | πολυλογίᾳ | many words |
| autōn | αὐτῶν | of them |
| eisakousthēsontai | εἰσακουσθήσονται. | they will be heard |
The key disputed terms between Protestants and Catholics are βατταλογήσητε and πολυλογίᾳ. The Strong lexicon will be consulted, but with caution, as Strong was a Protestant.
So, first Strong:
945. battalogeó
Strong's Concordance
battalogeó: to stammer
Original Word: βαττολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: battalogeó
Phonetic Spelling: (bat-tol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to stammer
Usage: I chatter, am long-winded, utter empty words, stammer, repeat.
HELPS Word-studies
945 battologéō – properly, to blubber nonsensical repetitions; to chatter (be "long-winded"), using empty (vain) words (Souter).
Note, both Strong and HELPS include (though not exclusively) the idea of repetitions. And for KJV, NAS, INT translations, if they were good ones, they would have a point.
The word is a composite. Battein would mean simply stammer or stutter. Logein occurs as such in composites, simplex would be legein, and that means speak. So, the composite would at a first approximation mean "stutter-speak" ...
Someone might interpret that as "repeat" but "repeat" is not the meaning of either word, not the obvious meaning of the composite word either. Now, how many ways are there to determine a word meaning? I mean in an old language.
- Etymology. I already covered this.
- Study the different uses. In the Bible, there is exactly one use, this verse, and it is disputed.
- Study old translations of the texts, from the time when the language was a living one. The Vulgate has "multum loqui" ... taken over from next term. The Coptoc and Syriac have "stutter" or "stammer" ... absolutely not one single old translation has "repeat" or "use repetitions"
Worse. There is actually a word for using repetitions. Actually more than one, but we'll stick with the idea of repeating words or phrases. Thrallein. If you were trying to rehearse a poem, you would obviously repeat lines over and over again, and that's thrallein. If Jesus had meant "repeat" as in repeating the Jesus prayer or the Hail Mary, Matthew who was His disciple for 3 and a half years would have known it, and his Gospel would have used the word "thrallein" ...
Or, what about study the one use, and see if there is any clue in the context?
What about this? hōsper hoi ethnikoi ... like the Pagans. Muslims and Hindoos are Pagans, and both of them have repetitive prayers. N o t so fast, please! Muslims didn't exist at the time. Hindoos existed but way further away than Greeks and Romans. Gentiles would typically refer to non-Israelite nations in the immediate situation of Israelites, not in the far off countries one nearly never thought of. Believe me, 1st C. Israel was not the British Commonwealth, and Hindoos were not first on their minds. One could even pinpoint one Pagan and Gentile nation that was very much more likely to be first on their mind. Romans.
So, how did Romans pray? We need not guess. They wrote pretty much. After all, it's from them that we get our alphabet. Velleius Paterculus wrote two books on the history of Rome. In book II, chapter 131, he closes the book with a prayer:
| Voto finiendum volumen est. Iuppiter Capitoline, et auctor ac stator Romani nominis Gradive Mars, perpetuorumque custos Vesta ignium et quidquid numinum hanc Romani imperii molem in amplissimum terrarum orbis fastigium extulit, vos publica voce obtestor atque precor: custodite, servate, protegite hunc statum, hanc pacem, hunc principem, eique functo longissima statione mortali destinate successores quam serissimos, sed eos, quorum cervices tam fortiter sustinendo terrarum orbis imperio sufficiant, quam huius suffecisse sensimus, consiliaque omnium civium aut pia fovete aut impia opprimite. | Let me end my volume with a prayer. O Jupiter Capitolinus, and Mars Gradivus, author and stay of the Roman name, Vesta, guardian of the eternal fire, and all other divinities who have exalted this great empire of Rome to the highest point yet reached on earth! On you I call, and to you I pray in the name of this people: guard, preserve, protect the present state of things, the peace which we enjoy, the present emperor, and when he has filled his post of duty — and may it be the longest granted to mortals — grant him successors until the latest time, but successors whose shoulders may be as capable of sustaining bravely the empire of the world as we have found his to be: foster the pious plans of all good citizens and crush the impious designs of the wicked. |
No. He was not repeating short phrases. We do not see "three times" (in Latin "ter" would be brief enough to mark a phrase). Nor do we find other indications that he or other Romans would have done the equivalent of "99 names of Allah" or Hindoo mantras, but in his own religion. So, is there anything stuttering about it? Yes. Vellius is obviously nervous to leave no stone unturned among the gods, to not imit the right and relevant deity. Jesus did not use "stutter" about repetitions of words, he used it as a metaphor for nervosity.
Next word?
4180. polulogia
Strong's Concordance
polulogia: much speaking
Original Word: πολυλογία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: polulogia
Phonetic Spelling: (pol-oo-log-ee'-ah)
Definition: much speaking
Usage: much-speaking, loquacity.
HELPS Word-studies
4180 polylogía (from 4183 /polýs, "much in quantity" and 3056 /lógos, "'word, speech") – properly, voluminous words; a great quantity of words (used only in Mt 6:7).
They got this one right. And most Protestant translations usually don't get this wrong. KJV, NAS and INT all have "many words" or "much speaking" ... I would not have marked it if it weren't one translation that stood out badly.
“When you pray, don’t babble on and on as the Gentiles do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again.
This is New Living Translation. For battologein, they did the right thing and translated "babble" ... not exact, but at least doesn't try to demonise repetitive prayer. But Protestants as they are, they couldn't leave that aspect out, so they paraphrased "they are heard for many words" with "their prayers are answered" (so far, so good) "by repeating their words agains and again" ... well, here not a single part of this phrase has anything to do with the actual Greek Text. These Protestants do not depend on the text, they follow a tradition that's not apostolic (since it began in the 1500's) but is only human.
Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Sts Cosmas and Damian
27.IX.2024
Aegeae natalis sanctorum Martyrum Cosmae et Damiani fratrum, qui, in persecutione Diocletiani, post multa tormenta, vincula et carceres, post mare et ignes, cruces, lapidationem et sagittas divinitus superatas, capite plectuntur; cum quibus etiam referuntur passi tres eorum fratres germani, id est Anthimus, Leontius et Euprepius.
PS, were there any Greeks who used Buddhist mantras? Ever? Sure:
The Ancient Greeks Who Converted to Buddhism
ReligionForBreakfast | 10 May 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA0wB3d7MgE
It's just that Menander I (most probable candidate for the Menander in the video) was living far off in Sagala, Northern India, Indo-Greek kingdoms ceased to exist in 10 AD, 20 years before the Sermon of the Mount, when one convert was in the Hellenistic world, Pyrrho, the descriptions are so vague by those more involved with the Greco-Roman world that it's somewhat uncertain if he was Buddhist, Hindoo or something else, though Buddhism is likeliest, and even then we cannot determine if he also used mantras or just tried to live according to dharma without such. Pyrrho died in 270 BC, but his philosophy still existed in early Christian times. However, Cicero does not seem to have practised Buddhist mantras, and even if he did, that's not what he would have referred to as praying. What's perhaps even more important, the Romans would have identified their national religion as worshipping the gods on the Capitalium, and there were FOUR different religions apart from actual Bacchus worship which they identified as Bacchus worship: Judaism and Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism. Probably the mental state induced by reciting mantras was perceived as "drunkenness" ... confer:
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is luxury; but be ye filled with the holy Spirit
[Ephesians 5:18]
