David Vincent parle d'un Jean pas fils de Zébédée

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : David Vincent parle d'un Jean pas fils de Zébédée · New blog on the kid : Il m'arrive de juger hâtivement

Son* texte source est en partie ceci:

«Nous célébrons donc avec exactitude le Jour, sans ajouter ni retrancher. En effet, c’est en Asie que se sont couchés de grands astres, qui ressusciteront au jour de l’avènement du Seigneur, quand il viendra du Ciel avec gloire et qu’il recherchera tous les saints : Philippe, l’un des douze apôtres, repose à Hiérapolis avec ses deux filles qui ont vieilli dans la virginité ; son autre fille, qui a vécu dans le Saint-Esprit, repose à Ephèse ; et encore Jean, qui a reposé sur la poitrine du Seigneur, et qui est devenu prêtre portant la lame d’or, témoin et docteur de la foi ; celui-ci repose à Ephèse ; Polycarpe de Smyrne, évêque et martyr ; et Thraséas d’Euménie, évêque et martyr ; il repose à Smyrne. »

Les mots saillants sont:

et encore Jean, qui a reposé sur la poitrine du Seigneur, et qui est devenu prêtre portant la lame d’or, témoin et docteur de la foi ; celui-ci repose à Ephèse

La conclusion qu'en tire David Vincent, signalons qu'il est protestant, est, que Jean était un Cohen, "prêtre portant la lame d'or". Il n'arrive pas à l'esprit qu'un prêtre du nouveau testament, un apôtre ou un de ses successeurs, pourrait être décrit ainsi.

Il veut avoir une confirmation de ceci, en partie, d'une ressemblance de Papias, cité après Eusèbe de Césarée, Histoire Ecclésiastique, III, 39, 4.

Arrivons à cette référence, excusez l'anglais:

Church History (Book III)
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250103.htm
Chapter 39. The Writings of Papias.

4. If, then, any one came, who had been a follower of the elders, I questioned him in regard to the words of the elders— what Andrew or what Peter said, or what was said by Philip, or by Thomas, or by James, or by John, or by Matthew, or by any other of the disciples of the Lord, and what things Aristion and the presbyter John, the disciples of the Lord, say. For I did not think that what was to be gotten from the books would profit me as much as what came from the living and abiding voice.

5. It is worth while observing here that the name John is twice enumerated by him. The first one he mentions in connection with Peter and James and Matthew and the rest of the apostles, clearly meaning the evangelist; but the other John he mentions after an interval, and places him among others outside of the number of the apostles, putting Aristion before him, and he distinctly calls him a presbyter.

6. This shows that the statement of those is true, who say that there were two persons in Asia that bore the same name, and that there were two tombs in Ephesus, each of which, even to the present day, is called John's. It is important to notice this. For it is probable that it was the second, if one is not willing to admit that it was the first that saw the Revelation, which is ascribed by name to John.

Dans d'autres termes, Eusèbe lui-même préfère léguer l'Apocalypse à "Jean le presbytre". Ou en connaît qui le préfèrent, au moins, et leur montre de la sympathie. Et, il le fait en donnant une conjecture.

Notons, il n'est pas notre meilleur ami dans le jugement.

Il omet toute référence à la découverte de Ste Hélène, celle de la Sainte Croix (voir dessus Stephan Borgehammar, How the Holy Cross was Found). Par contre, Eusèbe n'ose même pas dire que tel ou tel autre aurait voulu attribuer l'évangile à l'autre Jean.

En partie, David Vincent suit des gens comme Cullman:

Ainsi Oscar Cullman, après avoir minutieusement étudié l’évangile conclut que le disciple bien aimé, ne peut pas être Jean l’Apôtre. Mais il le laisse dans l’anonymat.

De mon côté, tout en partageant ses observations et ses conclusions, je pense que l’on peut aller plus loin et identifier ce disciple à Jean le Presbytre, comme l’ont fait avant moi Jean Colson, Jacqueline Genot-Bismuth. « Portrait robot » du disciple bien-aimé

Tout d’abord, il faut noter que l’auteur du quatrième évangile a une très bonne connaissance de Jérusalem, aussi bien de la topographie que des habitudes. En revanche, il ne semble pas du tout connaître la Galilée.

Par ailleurs, ce disciple est aussi en relation avec les milieux sacerdotaux :

« Simon Pierre, avec un autre disciple, suivait Jésus. Ce disciple était connu du souverain sacrificateur, et il entra avec Jésus dans la cour du souverain sacrificateur; mais Pierre resta dehors près de la porte. L’autre disciple, qui était connu du souverain sacrificateur, sortit, parla à la portière, et fit entrer Pierre. » (Jean 18 : 15-16).

On peut aussi signaler qu’il donne le nom du serviteur blessé par Pierre, Malchus (Jean 18 : 10), qu’il rapporte les entretiens secrets entre Jésus et Nicodème (Jean 3), et qu’il semble être au courant des délibérations qui ont lieu parmi les responsables religieux (Jean 7). La mention récurrente de Nicodème (Jean 3, 7 et 19) pourrait être un indice témoignant du fait que ce disciple connaissait bien Nicodème. Si mon hypothèse est juste, il se trouvait d’ailleurs dans une situation semblable, puisque comme Nicodème, il croyait à Jésus, mais dissimulait cela à ses proches.

Là, Cullman et David Vincent raisonnent en partie sur une supposée invraisemblance que les sacerdoces aaroniques auraient connu le fils de Zébédée.

De là, David Vincent est prêt à faire un petit fan fiction sur l'identité du disciple bien aimé. Il aurait été un prêtre aaronique excommunié par le temple et reçu par les disciples. Un indice pour ceci est qu'il a connu Nicodème, ce que la tradition explique par la conversion ouverte plus tard de celui-ci.

J'ai fait moi-même un fan fiction, mais dans un autre sens.

Zébédée était connu des suédois comme Thorr (ou à l'époque plutôt Thounorz). Son père était connu des suédois comme Odin (ou à l'époque plutôt Vodenz). Cet Odin était aussi connu des prêtres juives et des rabbins, car on le retrouve, confondu avec Théodas et avec Notre Seigneur, dans le Talmud et dans l'infame Tolédot Yéchou.

Si j'ai raison, les sacerdoces devaient très bien connaître cette famille.

Quel indice est-ce que trouve dans l'évangile que Zébédée était Thorr?

Boanerges ne veut pas linguistiquement dire "fils de tonnerre", donc, la phrase ajouté après Boanerges, "c'est à dire fils de tonnerre" était un explication autre que linguistique du mot.

Thorr était effectivement "la tonnerre" pour les païens. Et le Yéchou évoqué comme mauvais disciple d'un rabbin, comme coureur de jupes (au moins en désirs, selon les mots de son maître), celui qui (si c'est dans le Talmud ou dans la littérature talmudique plus large) apprit la magie en Égypte, il est, comme Simon Magus, un bon candidat pour Odin historique, le séducteur des suédois.

Et quand à Simon Magus il vit trop tard, puisque l'arrière-petit-fils adoptif d'Odin est contemporain avec César Auguste (selon Snorre, pas selon Saxo). Autrement son profile moral assez tard, selon les Actes de St Pierre, et le même que pour Odin.

Ma théorie sur Zébédée est donc, il avait suivi son père dans l'idolatrie et l'exile, il était revenu pour faire pénitence, et on lui l'a accordé. Il ne pouvait plus devenir rabbin, comme l'avait voulu une fois son père, mais il pouvait vivre comme pêcheur.

Que les sources nordique l'appelle "fils de Jord/Jórð" - de la Terre - a bien pu être un malentendu d'une phrase hébreue comme "ben ha-eretz" - fils du pays (référence à soit son lieu de naissance, soit son allégiance pour la Terre Sainte).

Si ma théorie ne vaut pas les pères de l'église, elle vaut largement Cullman et ce genre de Protestant libéraux. Un roman de fan fic vaut bien un autre.

Pour revenir à l'argument donnée par rapport à Polycrate, cité à partir d'Eusèbe de Césarée, Histoire ecclésiastique, V, 24, 2-4.

2. We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate.

Il n'arrive pas à l'esprit que l'épiscopat chrétien ait pu s'approprier assez tôt les marques des cohanim, en certain particuliers, comme, il me semble ici, l'éphode?

Quant à la désignation "présbytre" qui en terminologie courante de l'église désigne un simple sacerdote, qui ne peut transmettre le sacerdoce par la chéirotonie, un converti de l'anglicanisme a considéré que dans la génération du nouveau testament les termes "présbytre" et "épiscope" avaient les valeurs inverses qu'après. Et "sacerdotal plate", "lame d'or", regardons le grec:

ἔτι δὲ καὶ Ἰωάννης  ὁ  ἐπὶ  τὸ  στῆθος  τοῦ  κυρίου  ἀναπεσών,  ὃς  ἐγενήθη  ἱερεὺς  τὸ  πέταλον  πεφορεκὼς  καὶ μάρτυς  καὶ  διδάσκαλος·  οὗτος  ἐν  Ἐφέσῳ  κεκοίμηται,  ἔτι  δὲ  καὶ  Πολύκαρπος  ἐν  Σμύρν

Richard Bauckham** comments:

According to Polycrates, John was “a priest, wearing the highpriestly frontlet (to petalon).” We must give some attention to the word petalon, which I have translated here as “the high-priestly frontlet.” The Jewish high priest in the Jerusalem Temple wore an elaborate headdress, which is carefully described by Josephus (Ant.

En d'autres mots, il pourrait s'agir d'une forme de chapeau plutôt que d'un éphode. Dans ce cas, ce lieu serait une attestation "tôtive" des chapeaux des prêtres dans les rites orientaux.

Mais jouons un peu le jeu de David Vincent. Accordons un moment - pour cette discussion - que l'auteur des écrits johanniques, le disciple bien-aimé, était un vieux cohen expulsé du temple et accueilli parmi les disciples de Jésus. Ceci ne change rien en ce qui concerne l'inerrance des écrits johanniques. Dieu utilise qui Il veut, et les cohanim étaient assez souvent les instruments de Dieu dans l'Ancien Testament. Ils étaient l'autorité qui désignait tel ou tel livre comme partie du canon. Il paraît deux fois, une fois par Ezra, une deuxième fois, après l'exile, par un prêtre maccabéen - ce qui explique que le canon des LXX contient davantage que les 22 livres d'Ezra. En plus, qu'il était cohen et qu'il connaissait le temple très bien ne change aussi rien à ce qui concerne le contenu à l'époque surtout futuriste de l'Apocalypse : le temple avait une fonction prophétique. La seule chose qui changerait - et pour ça je n'accepte pas cette théorie - est que la tradition à propos le texte serait moins fiable. Je n'ai pas de raison à croire ceci.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Créteil
St Jean l'Apôtre
27.XII.2017

* Les citations sont à partir de:

Didascale : L’auteur et le but de l’Apocalypse
http://didascale.com/lauteur-but-de-lapocalypse/

**Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony
https://books.google.fr/books?isbn=1467446807

What Date is the Birth of Christ?

I saw this article supporting the usual date among Christians:

The date can be derived historically from the dating of Zechariah’s entry into the temple to burn incense. It can also be derived theologically from the ancient tradition that a great prophet entered and left the world on the same calendar day. Thus, the Annunciation was determined to have occurred on the same day as the crucifixion, March 25. December 25 naturally follows nine months later. They are good arguments, held to strict standards of historical research and logic, within their own fields.

Biological evidence that Jesus actually was born in December
Rebecca Salazar | Dec 10, 2017
https://aleteia.org/2017/12/10/biological-evidence-that-jesus-actually-was-born-in-december/

Now, to this can be added, the Awassi sheep she mentions.

But here is one more, and it has some theological bearing on whether we should celebrate a birthday in the case of Christ or not.

I find it very probable that on the exact date of Christ's being 30 years old, He rejected Satan's birthday presents - and, being exhausted physically after so doing, accepted those of a good angel.

There is a Hebrew tradition of not celebrating birthdays. It is not breaking a Mosaic law, but it is breaking a Pharisaic tradition to celebrate a birthday. This tradition has been kept up by Catholics, through the Middle Ages and even beyond in some conservative regions : you celebrate your baptismal date, not your birthdate.

There is a theological reason why only 3 birthdays are Church holidays : the Blessed Virgin and Our Lord were born without original sin and also conceived without it, St John the Baptist was conceived with but born without original sin (delivered from it when the Blessed Virgin visited St Elisabeth). There are perhaps two more birthdays (Isaiah and Jeremiah) which the Church could celebrate for a similar reason.

But there was also a pragmatic reason in preparing our salvation in the late OT aversion against Birthdays : Satan's offer was so to speak a "birthday present". And it is the kind of thing Christians do not give each other for either Christmas or birthday presents, normally : power.

The angel came and gave Christ unexpected, indeed "miraculous" (as when the raven fed Elijah) food. And food is a Christmas present and birthday present which is acceptable. Even, food and drink - probably wine (whiskey was not invented and besides wine better fits the Holy Land). Water, He probably had drunk, so his survival for forty days was not in that sense miraculous.

How do I figure out this is indeed the date, probably?

Baptism of Christ, before fasting and temptation:

"Luke 3:[23] And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years;"

Marriage at Cana: Our Lord was probably some days past thirty, since the Pharisaic tradition allowed for a party after the thirtieth birthday (according to a reference I am not now finding) - or other important birthday - where someone is acknowledged as being of age.

This brings us to the question whether January 6 was the actual date of baptism, or of marriage at Cana - it is celebrated as both, as well as visit of the Magi (and in some traditions in the place of Christmas too).

Now, since marriage at Cana was about 40 days after baptism, or perhaps a bit more, celebrating both events on same day means you are actually taking one of them away from actual date. I propose January 6 is "more like" marriage of Cana, and Our Lord was then baptised before November 27th.*

And, this is a space in which December 25th falls near the end. Between that day and January 6th, Christ had the opportunity to gather some disciples, as the situation of the marriage at Cana implies.

I checked on Jewish Holidays for 1999 to 2050. The earliest dates for first day of Hanukkah are just after that day : 28, 29, 30 November. Either Christ's baptism was on an early Hanukkah (fitting enough, since His body is among human bodies the primary Temple of the Holy Ghost) or He celebrated Hanukkah in the desert; fasting, preparing the rededication which was greater than that in 164 BC.

It is possible for Hanukkah to fall as late as December 25 or even a few days later.

But this said, the other enumeration of reasons, cited, is good too, and more precise, and now read Rebecca Salazar's evidence on the sheep specific to the region. The Awassi sheep.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Holy Thirty Martyrs
of Via Lavicana, between two Laurels**
22.XII.2017

* 6.I="37.XII"="67.XI", 67 - 40 = 27. ** Romae, via Lavicana, inter duas Lauros, natalis sanctorum triginta Martyrum, qui omnes una die, in persecutione Diocletiani, martyrio coronati sunt.

Rydberg, Chesterton and Tolkien

As a Swede, I have several Christmasses been hearing and some of them singing Victor Rydberg's star of Bethlehem poem, and will quote one line, which in light of the following suggests either Chesterton knew Swedish (though I have no other indications thereof) or that true minds think alike (a saying sometimes misattributed as about "great minds").

Stjärnan från Betlehem leder ej bort, men hem.

The star from Bethlehem leads, not away (from home), but home.

So thought Chesterton:

For men are homesick in their homes,
And strangers under the sun,
And they lay on their heads in a foreign land
Whenever the day is done.
Here we have battle and blazing eyes,
And chance and honour and high surprise,
But our homes are under miraculous skies
Where the yule tale was begun.

But the same poem also has a Tolkien connection:

This world is wild as an old wives’ tale,
And strange the plain things are,
The earth is enough and the air is enough
For our wonder and our war;
But our rest is as far as the fire-drake swings
And our peace is put in impossible things
Where clashed and thundered unthinkable wings
Round an incredible star.

You recall a dialogue between Eomer and Aragorn? I do.

“Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?'

A man may do both,' said Aragorn. 'For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!”

J.R.R. Tolkien > Quotes > Quotable Quote / J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/63484-do-we-walk-in-legends-or-on-the-green-earth

There is another connection between Rydberg and Tolkien : trying to search "leder ej bort, men hem" on wiki, I came across Swedish translations of The Hobbit.

This is obviously an excuse for a triple recommendation:

• Read Tolkien - all of him
• Read Chesterton - all of him, and right now the whole of the cited Christmas poem, on a blog by a fellow Chestertonian
• If you know Swedish, read Rydberg's Christmas poem. Even if you don't, enjoy the music.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Holy Martyr and ex-Prefect
St Flavian, husband of
St Dafrosa, parents of virgins Sts Bibiana and
Demetria, all of these also martyrs*
22.XII.2017

PS, I had nearly forgotten who composed the poem to music - but it is Alice Tegnér. Very famous in Sweden.

* Item Romae sancti Flaviani Expraefecti, viri beatae Martyris Dafrosae atque patris beatarum Virginum et Martyrum Bibianae ac Demetriae; qui, sub Juliano Apostata, pro Christo inscriptione damnatus, et ad Aquas Taurinas, in Etruria, in exsilium missus, illic in oratione spiritum Deo reddidit.

Poor Reason of Attributing Sth to Sth More Than Human

Let us say Stonehenge is partly attributed to three stones bouught by the Devil from a woman on Ireland, and partly to some other stones conjured there by Merlin. You may have difficulties in fitting these with some of the evidence, but the difficulties could be gotten around.

But you would have a reason which was at least as solid as "this is an old story, I have not made it up and I don't know of anyone who can certainly be considered as having made it up" (I was cheating, I combined two stories, both of which are in this case, but their combination is made up by me, as a reconstruction reconciling the two stories*).

Or again, Erich von Däniken might provide a list of works suggesting a roughly speaking supernatural - on his personal view that would mean space ships, Ancient Astronauts from Elsewhere - origin for Stonehenge about as tightly as Dan Brown (or actually, behind him, Bagent) connects the Grail Legend to a Dynasty Originating with Jesus' supposed marriage to St Mary Magdalene (and these documents and the interpretation about Stonehenge would have the gigantic advantage over Bagent's interpretations of that other material not to contradict Christian dogma).

But here I come across a very poor reason of attributing sth to sn else than the obvious most probable maker:

Ancient Egyptians DID NOT build THIS...The Osirion & Lost Ancient Technology
Bright Insight | added on 7th Dec. 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhZgaBo7ZSc

(Not linking, but you can look it up).

0:14 - 0:23

because - make no mistake - the people living in Egypt a few thousand years ago also known as the Ancient Egyptians could not have constructed this site : in fact there is zero physical or scientific evidence to even suggest that they did ...

Evidence x is standing amid a country formerly inhabited by people y and not attributable to any subsequent inhabitant is evidence it was made by people y, if there is no clear discrepancy in style to other things known to have been made by people y, and especially if there is some kind of religious clear affiliation (as it is, with an Osireion to Egyptians).

Also, narrative trumps physical evidence. It is usually from narratives we know who built what or who wrote what.

And assessing people y could not have constructed x presupposes the one so assessing had been living among the engineers of people y - which Mr "Bright Side" obviously has not in relation to Ancient Egyptians.

I feel tempted to ask "tell me when Mr Bright Side has learned some logic, and I might return to his channel", but I would be making the same fault with him, as he with Ancient Egyptians. I have seen a performance in him which I judge less compatible with good logic; he has seen performances by Ancient Egyptians which he judges incompatible with the technological level required for Osireion. But what if an engineer gave more technical considerations to the Osireion than to his bed and pillow? And what if "Bright Side" woke up on his dark side the morning before making the video?/HGL

PS, it seems one commenter** has even given the method./HGL

* You can find them here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge#Folklore
and here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge#Arthurian_legend

** The probable method and given as in by the link here:

Cutting granite with bronze or iron tools?
A new method by Franz Löhner
https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-cutting.html

Now, prove Löhner's method impossible, you start having an argument ...

Christmas Trees and Jeremiah (eine Jeremiade über einige Fundies ...)

This is a Christmas tree:

Description

Deutsch: Kleinster Weihnachtsbaum der Welt. Dampflok BR89 mit Kühlwagen im Maßstab 1:220.

Date

Weihnacht 2007 jahre

Source

Holger Späing

Author

Lok82008

As you may notice, it does not look like a palm tree, we'll come back to why this is important.

The "Grinch of Advent Past" is called Ken Pullen. Hope he's "recovered" since.

He commented under an essay by RTO, to which I link and under which you will find his well intentioned perhaps, but ill informed comment:

The Story of the Christmas Tree
By RTO.org
http://www.returntoorder.org/2016/12/the-story-of-the-christmas-tree/

And here is the comment:

"To all of you so caught up and lost in this tale thinking it so wonderful, and making you 'feel good' and perverting it as if it comes from God and Christ?"

While it is true that some "feel good" may be perverted by the devil, this is not the general source of all that is "feel good".

There is a Puritanic mistrust in beauty which is nearly as fatuous as going after false gods for the sake of beauty - if not more. It is neither Catholic nor Jewish : Catholic holidays and feel good have replaced the Jewish one, but the Jews also had such in the Old Testament (and some still think it is ongoing and keep these). Neither Catholics nor Jews are reducing rest to 52 days per year and reducing the holiday keeping to rest from servile work only, plus possibly prayer. Calvin and his disciples have used the negatives of both to come up with a combined thing more Puritan than either. So, beauty, in and of itself, is not wrong.

Whatever false gods have of it, they have it (through minds of men or from deceits of demons) from the True God, Who is the source of all true beauty.

Ken Pullen would need to consider exactly how a Christmas tree could pervert anything before pulling this kind of accusations.

"The comment from Sabienne below is the only one which has any truth to it."

It is resumed in his resumé just here:

"What should be everyone's source is God's Word. Not some tale from the mind of man to promote further erosion of the truth. Everything anyone needs to know regarding the origin of the Christmas tree and what it really means only need go to Jeremiah 10 and read the first 4 verses and that says it all as clear and plain as anyone needs."

This falls into two parts. A general and a false historic one.

"What should be everyone's source is God's Word."

For the things which are adressed in it, yes. I just had the sadness of seeing a "Vatican II" sectarian deny the historicity of the Wedding in Cana, and I called that denial apostasy (I might add : to Islam, or some other alcohol prohibitionist false religion).

"Not some tale from the mind of man to promote further erosion of the truth."

Well, extra-Biblical tales about historic facts are not all products of "the mind of man" but also of observation of man of what is there before he has a mind about it. Like the stories in the Bible themselves. When Moses wrote about the Exodus, he did not wait for God to dictate, necessarily, he most certainly used his own memory and what he had been told about his childhood and ancestry.

Because a tale is not in the Bible, it does not mean it is false. If Moses could use his memory, so can Christians and even Pagans (when they are not actively misusing it). Besides, you are making a tale from your own human mind (it is not from the Bible) about how to treat tales that are not found in the Bible.

Now, here is the second part, the false historical one:

"Everything anyone needs to know regarding the origin of the Christmas tree and what it really means only need go to Jeremiah 10 and read the first 4 verses and that says it all as clear and plain as anyone needs."

Er, no, they do not. I'll actually give even five verses:

Jeremiah 10:[1] Hear ye the word which the Lord hath spoken concerning you, O house of Israel. [2] Thus saith the Lord: Learn not according to the ways of the Gentiles: and be not afraid of the signs of heaven, which the heathens fear: [3] For the laws of the people are vain: for the works of the hand of the workman hath cut a tree out of the forest with an axe. [4] He hath decked it with silver and gold: he hath put it together with nails and hammers, that it may not fall asunder. [5] They are framed after the likeness of a palm tree, and shall not speak: they must be carried to be removed, because they cannot go. Therefore, fear them not, for they can neither do evil nor good.

A palm tree is very slender nearly all the way to the top, then it broadens out at the top. Take a look at this image of Hathor:

By Jeff Dahl - Own work, GFDL, Link

Or take the fact that Hathor heads decorated columns:

descr

Temple of Hathor at Dendera, Egypt. Hathor Column

Date

between 2005 and 2006

Source

Own work

Author

Steve F-E-Cameron (Merlin-UK)

A column, as general shape, is that of a palm tree. Now, usually in Greek columns, with just plates, scrolls or plants on column heads, there was no idolatry involved in columns themselves, less sure about Caryatides and Atlants. But Ancient Near East can have been different with superstitions attached even to columns in the temples. The one shown on photo is in stone, but wood was used in some lesser temples too, no doubt.

And what about this figurine of Amun?

By Anonymous (Egypt) - Walters Art Museum: Home page  Info about artwork, Public Domain, Link

Slender enough at bottom and if not branching out wide at top, the "hat" looks like palm leaves. I am leaving out idols of Baal which are even closer to the description in Jeremiah. But you can find pictures of them on wikipedia.

A pine tree is clearly the reverse : it is broadest just a bit over the bottom, and it becomes very much more slender near the top. And if you refer to a palm tree bearing fruit, it is not the shape but the function. Also, palm trees are very much not alone in the function, and we'll return to why Christmas trees have fruit, specifically apples.

Getting back to verse 1, while the Church is the heir of Israel, the immediate adressee of above words was Israel of the Old Covenant.

And now, verses 2, 3, 4 : there is no astrology in the Christmas tree, nor is there any need to keep it together by nails. It is usually not decked with gold and silver.

Even a May Pole is - though closer to the palm shape - clearly not feared. If not even a May Pole is what Jeremiah is talking about, how could a Christmas tree be so?

Now, that said, I am less sure of the story given by RTO/TFP is totally correct.

In the seventh century a monk from Crediton, Devonshire, went to Germany to teach the word of God. His name was St. Boniface. He did many good works there and spent much time in Thuringia, a region later to become the centre of the Christmas decoration industry.

Tradition has it that St. Boniface used the triangular shape of the fir tree to describe the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The converted people began to revere the fir tree as God’s tree, as they had previously revered the oak.

That much seems very likely, but there is a connection here, which is not clear. There seems to be some reconstruction about the connection between early conversion of Germany and late Middle Ages, instead of sticking to facts given by the story.

By the twelfth century it was being hung, upside-down, from ceilings at Christmas time in Central Europe, as a symbol of Christianity and was referred to as the ‘Tree of Christ’.

I'd like a reference to a Christbaum being hung upside down ...

The first decorated tree was at Riga in Latvia in 1510, while the first Christmas tree came to England with the Georgian Kings from Germany.

Well, there is some time between St Boniface and the 16th C. Moorhead company in Riga, in then Livland.

But the first decorated tree being in 1510 is wrong, now we have earlier references.

Schon im Mittelalter bestand vielerorts der Brauch, zu bestimmten öffentlichen Festlichkeiten ganze Bäume zu schmücken, wie zum Beispiel den Maibaum oder den Richtbaum

.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weihnachtsbaum

This is a reference to the May Pole, not quite the same thing.

Zu Weihnachten wurden in der Kirche Paradiesspiele aufgeführt, weil der 24. Dezember vor der Liturgiereform nach dem Zweiten Vatikanischen Konzil der liturgische Gedenktag Adam und Evas war, an dem im Brauchtum ein Paradiesbaum, der durchaus auch ein Laubbaum sein konnte, mit Äpfeln behängt wurde. Der Apfel diente dabei als Zeichen der Frucht vom Baum der Erkenntnis und erinnerte an den Sündenfall und an die Befreiung des Menschen von der Erbsünde durch Jesus Christus.

(same article)

Ah, yes. At the occasion of Christmas Eve, in Church or outdoors, there was a representation of what happened in Eden, in Genesis 3. There was a tree representing the one Adam and Eve picked a fruit from. And, while a leaf tree rather than a conifer was possible, I am not sure how many leaf trees were available as alternatives to pines. Perhaps hollies - if you consider them as trees rather than as bushes.

The decoration of the tree was apples (the fruit stolen by Adam) and non-consecrated Hosts (Oblaten), which represent the Eucharist which Christ came to give us.

Gold and silver could occur, but secondary, not covering all of it : unlike the craftsmanship described in Jeremiah, you are supposed to see it is a tree.

It seems one of the horrors of Vatican II Liturgic Reform was doing away with December 24 as memorial day of Adam and Eve.

Von 1521 datiert ein Eintrag in einem Rechnungsbuch der Humanistenbibliothek in Schlettstadt: „Item IIII schillinge dem foerster die meyen an sanct Thomas tag zu hieten.“ (Neuhochdeutsche Übersetzung: „Ebenso vier Schillinge dem Förster, damit er ab dem St.-Thomastag die Bäume bewacht.“)

So, Alsatia shows pines risking felling from the day of St Thomas (December 21), meaning the municipality of Schlettstadt probably wanted monopoly on this particular Christmas decoration - for the one in or next to Church. Now to the Moors' Head Companies decorating and then burning Christmas trees:

Von den Schwarzhäuptern in Riga und Reval wurden in der ersten Hälfte des 16. Jahrhunderts gegen Ende der Weihnachtszeit Tannenbäume auf den Markt getragen, geschmückt und zum Schluss verbrannt.

I am not sure you have heard one of the recent accusations against Christendom, that in the Middle Ages it was heavily against Black People. Check out the Moorhead emblem:

Description

Deutsch: Schwarzhäupterwappen im Schwarzhäupterhaus Riga

Date

August 2009

Source

Own work

Author

Greifen

Looks like Jamaica, perhaps Mauritius, but it is in Riga.

Yes, a moor's head, through misunderstanding of the name, probably, was the emblem of the Roman Martyr St Mauritius.

Why were Christmas trees burnt after being used for decorations? Well, at the end of the Christmas season - in the Middle Ages of Riga it could have been, like still in Sweden, Octave of Epiphany, January 13 (some parts of Catholic France even extend it to February 2, Candlemass) - Christmas season is over and continuing to show forth the signs of Christmas while being really obliged to another season of the Church year, namely pre-Lent and Lent, would be heresy. The Christmas trees were burnt lest they should fall into heresy.

But I am waiting for a reference for Christmas trees hung upside down in Central Europe in the 12th C., though I could of course google or ask someone on Atlas Obscura if they have sth. Meanwhile, the Grinch is answered.

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre
St Nicais of Rheims or
Day after St Lucy
14.XII.2017

France St Louis IX to Louis XI, IV

France St Louis IX to Louis XI : Part I · Part II · Part III · Part IV · Part V
Stats: Age at death · Age at first marriage : a rough estimate

Continuing the three previous.

Excursus

Henry of Bar

marriage

In November 1384 Henry himself married Marie de Coucy, [who was 18] Countess of Soissons (1366–1405), daughter of Enguerrand VII Count of Soissons & Sire de Coucy, by his first wife Princess Isabella of England, eldest daughter of King Edward III. Marie became Dame de Coucy et de Oisy following her father's death in 1397.

children

Enguerrand (died ca. 1400),

Robert of Bar (1390 – Agincourt, 25 October 1415)

Excursus

Robert of Bar

marriage

Robert married in 1409 Jeanne de Béthune [she was 12], Viscountess of Meaux ((c.1397- late 1450)), daughter of Robert VIII de Béthune, Viscount of Meaux.

daughter

Jeanne de Bar, Countess of Marle and Soissons, Dame d'Oisy, Viscountess of Meaux suo jure (1415- 14 May 1462), married Louis de Luxembourg, Count of Saint-Pol, of Brienne, de Ligny, and Conversano by whom she had seven children.

Excursus

Jeanne de Bar

remarcable

In 1430, at the age of fifteen, Jeanne was one of the three women placed in charge of Joan of Arc when the latter was a prisoner in the castle of John II of Luxembourg, Count of Ligny, Jeanne's stepfather.

marriage

On 16 July 1435, at the age of twenty, Jeanne married Louis of Luxembourg, Count of Saint-Pol, Brienne, de Ligny, and Conversano, Constable of France (1418- 19 December 1475). The marriage took place at the Chateau de Bohain. She was Louis' first wife.

children

Mentioned under mention of Louis of Luxemburg or under his second wife.

Excursus

Adolf, Duke of Jülich-Berg

In 1400 Adolf was married at the Château de Dun to Yolande of Bar (the younger)

one child

Rupert (died 2 August 1431), married 26 February 1426 Marie of Harcourt, daughter of John VI, Count of Harcourt and widow of Reginald, Duke of Jülich and Guelders, whose title had passed to Rupert's father.

Excursus

Theodore II, Marquess of Montferrat

first marriage

Theodore married, as his first wife, Argentina Malaspina. She was a daughter of Leonardo Malaspina, Marquess of Massa. They had no known children.

second marriage

In 1393, Theodore married his second wife Joanna of Bar. She was a daughter of Robert I, Duke of Bar and Marie of Valois.

children

John Jacob Palaeologus (Italian: Giovanni Giacomo Paleologo) (March 23, 1395 – March 12, 1445)

Sophia of Montferrat (or Sophia Palaiologina; died 21 August 1434) was a Byzantine Empress consort by marriage to John VIII Palaiologos.

third marriage

Joanna died on 15 January 1402. Theodore remained a widower for a year. On 17 January 1403, Theodore married his third wife Margaret of Savoy. She was the eldest daughter of Amadeo, Prince of Achaea and Catherine of Geneva. Their marriage was childless. Margaret survived her husband by forty-six years and died on 23 November 1464

Excursus

John Jacob Palaeologus

marriage

In 1412 he married Joanna of Savoy, sister of Duke Amadeus VIII, who gave him numerous children.

children

John IV (1413 – 1464), Marquess of Montferrat 1445–1464

Amadea (1418 – 1440), married to John II de Poitiers-Lusignan, king of Cyprus.

Isabella (ca. 1419 – 1475); married to Ludovico I del Vasto, Marquess of Saluzzo.

William VIII (1422 – 1483), Marquess of Montferrat 1464–1483.

Boniface III (1424 – 1494), Marquess of Montferrat 1483–1494.

Theodoro (1425 – 1481), cardinal.

Excursus

John IV, Marquess of Montferrat

He set his mind rather belatedly to ensuring future of the dynasty, marrying Margherita of Savoy, daughter of Louis of Savoy and Anne of Cyprus, in Casale in December 1458. [19]

child

However they only had one daughter Elena Margherita (1459 – 1496), who married Victor, Duke of Münsterberg.

illegitimate:

Sara (1462–1503)

Scipione (1463–1485)

Excursus

Amadea Palaiologina of Montferrat

was a queen consort of Cyprus, wife of king John II of Cyprus. ...

II marriage of Hb

His second wife, a distant relative of his first one, whom he married in Nicosia in 1441 or on February 3, 1442, was Helena Palaiologina [she was 13 or 14] (1428 – April 11, 1458), only child and daughter of Theodore II Palaiologos, Despot of the Morea and his wife Cleofa Malatesta.

children

Charlotte of Lusignan (28 June 1444[1] – 16 July 1487)

Cleopha of Lusignan, died young

Excursus

Charlotte, Queen of Cyprus

I marriage

Infante John of Portugal, also known as John of Coimbra, (1431 or 1433 – between July and 11 September 1457) (son of Infante Pedro, Duke of Coimbra and grandson of King John I of Portugal), in May 1456 in Nicosia. He was made a titular Prince of Antioch. It is rumoured that his death was a murder due to poisoning, arranged by Queen Helena, leaving Charlotte free to make a second marriage.

II marriage

Louis of Savoy, Count of Geneva (Geneva, 5 June 1436 or 1 April 1437 – Château-Monastery de Ripaille, August 1482). The couple were married on 7 October 1459, almost a year after Charlotte's coronation. Louis was her cousin: he was the second son and namesake of Louis, Count of Savoy by Anne de Lusignan, daughter of King Janus of Cyprus, and became a King of Cyprus from 1459 to 1462 and also a titular King of Jerusalem.

son

By her second husband Louis, Charlotte had an unnamed son who was born in July 1464, but the boy died within a month of his birth.

Excursus

Isabella / Ludovico I di Saluzzo

had children, but too little documented to study the siblingship survival.

Excursus

William VIII, Marquess of Montferrat

I marriage

William married firstly on 19 January 1465 Marie de Foix (d.1467) daughter of Gaston IV, Count of Foix;

II marriage

on 18 July 1469 [she was 13] Elizabetta Sforza (1456–1473) daughter of Francesco I Duke of Milan

daughters

Giovanna, married to Ludovico II del Vasto, Marquess of Saluzzo

Bianca di Montferrato (1472 – 30 March 1519)

III marriage

on 6 January 1474 Bernarde de Brosse (d.17 February 1485).

Excursus

Ludovico II del Vasto, Marquess of Saluzzo

I marriage

In 1481 he married his cousin, Giovanna Palaiologo of Montferrat, daughter of William VIII, Marquess of Montferrat. Two years after her death in 1490, ...

II marriage

he remarried, to Margaret of Foix-Candale.

children

Michele Antonio (1495–1528)

Gian Ludovico (1496–1563), [deposed 1529]

Francesco Ludovico I (1498–1537)

Gian Gabriele (1501–1548)

Excursus

Blanche of Montferrat

marriage

On 1 April 1485 [she was 13], Blanche married Charles I, Duke of Savoy and titular King of Cyprus, Jerusalem and Armenia.

children

A stillborn son (September 1486)

Yolande Louise of Savoy (2 July 1487 – 13 September 1499), married Philibert II of Savoy; died childless at the age of 12.

A son (born and died in May 1488)

Charles II, Duke of Savoy (23 June 1489 – 16 April 1496).

A daughter (born and died in March 1490)

Excursus

Bonifacio III del Monferrato

I matrimonio

La prima con Orvietana Fregoso, figlia di Pietro Fregoso, doge di Genova, dalla quale non ebbe figli.

II matrimonio

Si sposò quindi in seconde nozze con Elena di Brosse († 1484), figlia di Giovanni II di Brosse, ed anche da questo secondo matrimonio non nacquero figli.

III matrimonio

Sposò quindi in terze nozze, l'8 luglio 1485 [aveva 18-19 anni] ad Innsbruck, Maria Branković (Ohrid 1466 – Casale 27 agosto 1495), figlia del principe Stefano di Serbia.

figli

Guglielmo (1486 – 1518), marchese di Monferrato dal 1494 al 1518

Giangiorgio (1488 – 1533), marchese del Monferrato dal 1530 al 1533.

Excursus

Sophia of Montferrat

unhappily married and divorced by John VIII Palaeologus! No children.

Excursus

Louis, roi titulaire de Thessalonique

No children.

II

Philip III of France

I marriage

On 28 May 1262, Philip married Isabella [who was 14, born 1248], daughter of King James I of Aragon and his second wife Yolande of Hungary.

children

Louis (died May 1276). He was poisoned, possibly by orders of his stepmother.

Philip IV of France (1268 – 29 November 1314), his successor, married Joan I of Navarre

Robert (1269–1271)

Charles, Count of Valois (12 March 1270 – 16 December 1325), Count of Valois from 1284, married first to Margaret of Anjou in 1290, second to Catherine I of Courtenay in 1302, and last to Mahaut of Chatillon in 1308

Stillborn son (1271)

II marriage

Louis, Count of Évreux (May 1276 – 19 May 1319), Count of Évreux from 1298, married Margaret of Artois

Blanche of France, Duchess of Austria (1278 – 19 March 1305, Vienna), married the duke, the future king Rudolf I of Bohemia and Poland, on 25 May 1300.

Margaret of France, Queen of England (1282 – 14 February 1318), married king Edward I of England on 8 September 1299

Excursus

Charles, Count of Valois

I marriage

His first marriage, in 1290, was to his double second cousin Margaret, Countess of Anjou, [age 16] (1274–1299), daughter of King Charles II of Naples.

children

Isabelle of Valois (1292 – 1309). Married John, Prince of Brittany (later Duke John III).

Philip VI (1293 – 22 August 1350), first King of the Valois Dynasty.

Joan of Valois (1294 – 7 March 1342). Married William I, Count of Hainaut, and had issue

Margaret of Valois (1295 – July 1342). Married Guy I of Blois-Châtillon, Count of Blois, and had issue.

Charles II of Valois (1297 – 26 August 1346 at the Battle of Crécy), Count of Alençon. Married first Jeanne de Joigny and second Marie de la Cerda and had issue from the second marriage.

Catherine of Valois (1299 – died young).

II marriage

In 1302 he remarried to Catherine I of Courtenay (1274–1307), titular Empress of Constantinople. [she was 28]

children

John of Valois (1302 – 1308), Count of Chartres.

Catherine II of Valois (1303 – October 1346), titular Empress of Constantinople and Princess of Achaea.[6] She married Philip I d'Anjou, Prince of Taranto, and had issue.

Joan of Valois (1304 – 9 July 1363). Married Count Robert III of Artois and had issue.

Isabelle of Valois (1305 – 11 November 1349), Abbess of Fontevrault.

III marriage

Finally, in 1308, he married Mahaut of Châtillon (1293–1358),[1] daughter of Guy III of Châtillon, Count of Saint Pol. [she was 15]

children

Marie of Valois (1309 – 28 October 1332). Married Charles, Duke of Calabria, and had issue.

Isabella of Valois (1313 – 26 July 1383).[8] She married Peter I, Duke of Bourbon.

Blanche of Valois (1317 – 1348). She married Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor. Sometimes called "Marguerite".

Louis of Valois (1318 – 2 November 1328), Count of Chartres and Lord of Châteauneuf-en-Thymerais.

Excursus

Joan of Valois, Countess of Hainaut

Marriage

Joan married William I, Count of Hainaut, on 23 May 1305 [she was 11]

children

William II, Count of Hainaut (1307–1345)

John (died 1316)

Empress Margaret (1311–1356), married Louis IV, Holy Roman Emperor

Queen Philippa (24 June 1314 – 1369), married king Edward III of England

Agnes (died 1327)

Johanna von Jülich (1315–1374), married William V, Duke of Jülich

Isabella of Hainaut (1323–1361), married Robert of Namur

Louis (1325–1328)

Excursus

Empress Margaret

marriage

In 1324 she married Louis IV, Holy Roman Emperor. [she was 13]

children

Margaret (1321/1325–1374) (married twice)

Anna (c. 1326 – 3 June 1361, Fontenelles) married John I of Lower Bavaria (d. 1340)

Louis VI the Roman (1328–1365), duke of Upper Bavaria, elector of Brandenburg. No issue.

Elisabeth (1329 – 2 August 1402, Stuttgart) (married twice)

William V of Holland (1330–1389), as William I duke of Lower Bavaria, as Wiliam V count of Hainaut and Holland. He married Maud of Lancaster but their only daughter died young

Agnes (Munich, 1335 – 11 November 1352, Munich). She became a nun, due to ill health and died young

Albert I of Holland (1336–1404), duke of Lower Bavaria, count of Hainaut and Holland

Otto V the Bavarian (1340–1379), duke of Upper Bavaria, elector of Brandenburg

Beatrice of Bavaria (1344 – 25 December 1359), married bef. 25 October 1356 Eric XII of Sweden

Louis (October 1347 – 1348)

Excursus

Margaret of Bavaria, Duchess of Slavonia

I marriage

In Ofen in 1351, Margaret married [at 26/30] Stephen, Duke of Slavonia, the youngest son of King Charles I of Hungary and Elizabeth of Poland.

children

Elizabeth of Slavonia (1352 – 1380)

John of Anjou (Hungarian: János; 1354–1360)

II marriage

The Duchess remarried in 1356, choosing Gerlach von Hohenlohe as her second husband, but kept the regency over Slavonia, Croatia and Dalmatia.

Excursus

Elizabeth of Slavonia

marriage

In October 1370, Elizabeth married Philip II, Prince of Taranto, a 41-year-old widower and pretender to the Latin Empire.

child

Their only known child, a son named Philip, was born in 1371 and died the same year.

I marriage of Hb

In April 1355, Philip married Joanna's younger sister, Maria of Calabria

children

Philip (1356, DY)

Charles (1358, DY)

Philip (1360, DY)

a child, (1362)

a child, (1366)

I marriage of Maria of Calabria

Shortly after the death of her grandfather, however, Maria was abducted by Agnes of Périgord, widow of John, Duke of Durazzo. Agnes arranged the marriage of Maria to her son, Charles, Duke of Durazzo. The marriage took place on 21 April 1343, the bride being almost fourteen years old and the groom twenty

children

Louis of Durazzo (December 1343 – 14 January 1344)

Joanna, Duchess of Durazzo (1344 – 20 July 1387); married firstly on 19 June 1366 to Infante Louis of Navarre, Count of Beaumont (d. 1372), and secondly on 1376 to Robert IV of Artois, Count of Eu (d. 1387). There was no issue from either marriage.

Agnes of Durazzo (1345 – 15 July 1388, Naples), married firstly on 6 June 1363 Cansignorio della Scala, Lord of Verona (d. 1375), and secondly on 1382 to James of Baux (d. 1383). There was no issue from either marriage.

Clementia of Durazzo (1346 – 1363, Naples)

Margaret of Durazzo (28 July 1347 – 6 August 1412, Mela), married in January 1369 to Charles of Durazzo, Conte of Gravina and Morrone, later King of Naples

II marriage

before the marriage could take place, she was abducted again, this time by Hugh IV, Lord of Baux and Count of Avellino, who forced Maria to marry with his eldest son and heir, Robert.[3] They had no children. ... Hugh IV was murdered on the orders of Maria's brother-in-law Louis of Taranto, in 1351. Two years later (1353), Maria was finally rescued by King Louis of Hungary, but her husband Robert was captured and imprisoned by Louis of Taranto at Castel dell'Ovo, where he was killed by her orders. She reportedly witnessed the murder first hand.

Excursus

Margaret of Durazzo

marriage

In February, 1369, Margaret married her paternal first cousin Charles of Durazzo. He was a son of Louis of Durazzo, another son of John, Duke of Durazzo and his second wife Agnes de Périgord. The bride was twenty-two years old and the groom twenty-four.

children

Mary of Durazzo (1369–1371).

Joanna II of Naples (23 June 1373 – 2 February 1435)

Ladislaus of Naples (11 February 1377 – 6 August 1414)

Excursus

Joanna II of Naples

I marriage

Joanna married her first husband, William, Duke of Austria in Vienna in the autumn of 1401 when she was 28 years of age.[1] He had been rejected as a husband by her cousin, Hedwig of Poland. Joanna did not have any children by William, who died in 1406 after five years of marriage.

II marriage

In early 1415, she became fiancee to John of Aragon, a son of King Ferdinand I of Aragon, and twenty-five years her junior.[3] The betrothal was annulled shortly after, which left Joanna free to choose another husband. On 10 August 1415, she married a second time, to James of Bourbon, Count of La Marche,[1] in order to gain the support of the French monarchy. The marriage contract stipulated that upon his marriage to Joanna, James would be granted the title of Prince of Taranto. Not having received the promised title, he had Alopo killed and forced Joanna to name him King of Naples. In an attempt to assume complete power, James imprisoned Joanna in her own apartments in the royal palace; however, she was later released by the nobles.

In 1416, a riot exploded in Naples, and James was compelled to send back his French administrators, and to renounce his title. In this period, Joanna began her relationship with Sergianni Caracciolo, who later acquired an overwhelming degree of power over the court. On 28 August 1417, she reconquered Rome, and the following year (1418), James left Naples for France.

Excursus

Ladislaus of Naples

I marriage

First to Costanza Chiaramonte in 1390. She was a daughter of Manfredi III Chiaramonte. "They were divorced in 1392."

She was married in Gaeta at the age of 12 years, to Ladislaus of Durazzo, who soon became King Ladislaus of Naples. However the fortunes of the Chiaramonte family soon changed: her father died in 1391, and her brother was caught and executed by the Aragonese forces of Martin I of Aragon, who had declared himself Martin II of Sicily. With this turn of fortunes, Ladislaus obtained an annulment by decree of the pope Boniface IX. In July, 1392 the bishop of Gaeta and the cardinal Acciaiuoli announce the dissolution of the marriage in church, and obtain the marriage ring. The supposed reason for the annulment was either the age of the couple or the accusation that Costanza's mother was living disolutely in concubinage.

II marriage

Second to Mary of Lusignan (1381–1404) on 12 February 1403 in Naples. She was a daughter of James I of Cyprus. She died on 4 September 1404.

III marriage

Third to Mary of Enghien (1367 or 1370 – 9 May 1446), suo iure Countess of Lecce, daughter of John of Enghien, in 1406. She survived him by thirty-two years.

France St Louis IX to Louis XI, III

France St Louis IX to Louis XI : Part I · Part II · Part III · Part IV · Part V
Stats: Age at death · Age at first marriage : a rough estimate

Continuing the two previous.

Excursus

Henry IV, Count of Bar

marriage

Il épousa en 1338 Yolande de Dampierre (1331 † 1395) [marriage contract, OK]

children

Édouard II (1339 † 1352), comte de Bar

Robert Ier (1344 † 1411), comte puis duc de Bar

Excursus

Robert, Duke of Bar

marriage

In 1364 he married Marie of Valois, the daughter of king John II of France and Bonne of Luxembourg.[3]

children

Yolande of Bar, (1365 †1431); in 1380 married John I of Aragon (1350 †1396).[4]

Henry of Bar, (1362 †1397), Marquis de Pont-à-Mousson, seigneur de Marle; in 1384 married Marie de Coucy. Taken prisoner at the Battle of Nicopolis and died of the plague.

Philippe (1372 †1396); also killed at the Battle of Nicopolis.

Charles (1373 †1392), seigneur de Nogent-le-Rotrou.

Marie (1374 †?); in 1384 married William II, Marquis of Namur, Margrave of Namur (1355 †1418) (not to be confused with Namor)

Edward III of Bar (1377 †1415), Duke of Bar; killed at the Battle of Agincourt.

Louis I, Duke of Bar (between 1370 and 1375 – 26 June 1430); Bishop of Verdun, cardinal.

Yolande the younger (c. 1378 – 10 January 1421); in 1400 married Adolf, Duke of Jülich-Berg (†1437).

John of Bar, seigneur de Puisaye (1380 †1415), seigneur de Puisaye; killed at the Battle of Agincourt.

Bonne (†1436);[5] in 1393 married Waleran III of Luxembourg, Count of Ligny (1357 †1415), Count of Ligny and of Saint-Pol.

Jeanne (†1402); in 1393 married Théodore II Paléologue, Marquis of Montferrat (1361 †1418)

Excursus

Violant of Bar

marriage

She was married in 1380 at the age of 15 to John, Duke of Girona,[3] the heir apparent to the throne of Aragon, thus becoming Duchess of Girona and Countess of Cervera. Her husband became King of Aragon in 1387.

children

James (1382–1388), Duke of Girona and Count of Cervera

Yolande (Zaragoza 1384 - Saumur 14 November 1442),[3] married on 2 December 1400 at Louis II of Naples. She played a role in the history of France.

Ferdinand (1389 - Monzón October 1389), Duke of Girona and Count of Cervera

Joanna (1392 - Barcelona 4 August 1396)

Antonia (b and d 1392)

Peter (1394-1394), Duke of Girona and Count of Cervera

Excursus

Yolande of Aragon

marriage

She was betrothed in 1390 to Louis, the heir of Anjou (who had one year earlier succeeded in conquering Naples and become King Ludovico II of Naples), and married him on 2 December 1400 [16] at Montpellier.

children

Louis III of Anjou (25 September 1403 – 12 November 1434), Duke of Anjou, Titular King of Naples. He was adopted by Queen Joanna II of Naples.

Marie of Anjou (14 October 1404 – 29 November 1463). Married in 1422 King Charles VII of France. Had issue including King Louis XI of France

René I of Naples (16 January 1409 – 10 July 1480), Duke of Anjou and Bar, Duke Consort of Lorraine, Titular King of Sicily and Naples. Married Duchess Isabella of Lorraine. They were the parents of Margaret of Anjou, Queen-Consort of England

Yolande of Anjou (13 August 1412 – 17 July 1440). Married in 1431 Francis, Count of Montfort l'Amaury, who succeeded his father in 1442 as Dule of Brittany

Charles of Anjou (14 October 1414 – 10 April 1472), Count of Maine (who never was duke of Anjou, but his namesake son was). Married firstly Cobella Ruffo and secondly Isabelle de St.Pol, Countess of Guise. Had issue by both marriages.

Excursus

Marie of Anjou

see King Charles VII

Excursus

René of Anjou

first marriage

Isabella, Duchess of Lorraine : On 24 October 1420, she married René of Anjou. In the marriage contract, it was specified that she would inherit Lorraine, as he would inherit Bar and Pont-à-Mousson, and that their child and heir would inherit all their domains, thereby uniting them

children

John II (2 August 1424 – 16 December 1470), Duke of Lorraine and King of Naples, married Marie de Bourbon, daughter of Charles I, Duke of Bourbon, by whom he had issue. He also had several illegitimate children.

Louis (16 October 1427 – between 22 May and 16 October 1444), Marquis of Pont-à-Mousson and Lieutenant General of Lorraine. At the age of five, in 1432, he was sent as a hostage to Dijon with his brother John in exchange for their captive father. John was released, but Louis was not and died of pneumonia in prison.

Nicholas (2 November 1428 – 1430), twin with Yolande.

Yolande (2 November 1428 – 23 March 1483), married Frederick ΙΙ of Lorraine, count of Vaudemont; mother, among others, of duke René II of Lorraine.

Margaret (23 March 1430 – 25 August 1482), married King Henry VI of England, by whom she had a son, Edward of Westminster, Prince of Wales.

Charles (1431 – 1432), Count of Guise.

Isabelle (died young).

René (died young).

Louise (1436 – 1438).

Anne (1437 – 1450, buried in Gardanne). [Gardanne is between Aix and Marseille, and I have good memories of it.]

second marriage

Jeanne de Laval : A marriage contract was drawn up on 3 September 1454 between Jeanne's father and King René of Naples and Sicily. The wedding was celebrated on 10 September 1454, at the Abbey of St. Nicholas in Angers. At the age of twenty-one Jeanne married René, whose first wife, Isabella of Lorraine, had died the previous year. Jeanne's husband was more than twenty years her senior. The marriage, however, was happy.

children, none:

Jeanne, who was sweet and affectionate, seems to have been much loved by her husband. She became stepmother to René's children, who included the future John II, Duke of Lorraine, Margaret of Anjou, and Yolande, Duchess of Lorraine. Jeanne's marriage to René was childless.

Excursus

John II, Duke of Lorraine

marriage

He married in 1444 Marie de Bourbon (1428–1448) [she was 16], daughter of Charles I, Duke of Bourbon.

children

Isabelle (b. 1445), d. young

René (b. 1446), d. young

Marie (b. 1447), d. young

Jean (d. 1471),

Nicholas (1448–1473).

Excursus

Nicholas I, Duke of Lorraine

illegitimate daughter d 1503

Excursus

Yolande, Duchess of Lorraine

marriage

In 1445 [she was 16 or 17], she married her second cousin Frederick II, Count of Vaudémont (1420–1470), at Nancy. The marriage was a dynastic alliance, arranged to end the dispute which existed between René of Anjou and Frederick's father, Antoine of Vaudémont, regarding the succession to the Duchy of Lorraine.

children

René (future Duke of Lorraine) (1451–1508), Duke of Lorraine. On 1 September 1485 he married secondly, Philippa of Guelders, by whom he had issue, from whom descended Mary, Queen of Scots.

Nicolas of Lorraine, Lord of Joinville and Bauffremont, died in 1476.

Peter of Lorraine, died in 1451.

Jeanne of Lorraine (1458 – Jan. 25, 1480), married in 1474 to Charles IV, Duke of Anjou.[1] There was no issue from the marriage.

Yolande of Lorraine, who died in 1500, married William II, Landgrave of Hesse, by whom she had issue.

Marguerite of Lorraine (1463–1521), married René, Duke of Alençon (1454–1492). She had issue, from whom descended King Henry IV of France.

Excursus

René II, Duke of Lorraine

marriage

René married Philippa of Guelders, daughter of Adolf, Duke of Guelders, in Orléans on 1 September 1485 [she was 17]

children

Charles (b. 17 August 1486, Nancy), d. young

Francis (5 July 1487, Pont-à-Mousson) (died at birth)

Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (1489–1544)

Nicholas (9 April 1493, Nancy), d. young

Claude, Duke of Guise (1496–1550), first Duke of Guise

Jean, Cardinal of Lorraine and Bishop of Metz (1498–1550)

Louis, Count of Vaudémont (1500–1528)

François, Count of Lambesc (1506–1525)

Anne (19 December 1490, Bar-le-Duc – 1491)

Isabelle (2 November 1494, Lunéville – bef. 1508)

twins

Claude and Catherine (twins) (24 November 1502, Bar-le-Duc), d. young

Excursus

William II, Landgrave of Hesse

first marriage

On 9 November 1497 William II married Yolande, daughter of Frederick II of Vaudémont. She died on 21 May 1500 after the marriage produced one child

child

William (27 March 1500 – 8 April 1500)

second marriage

The same year on 20 October, his second marriage was to Anna of Mecklenburg-Schwerin [who was 15]

children

Elisabeth (4 March 1502 – 6 December 1557)

Magdalena (18 July 1503 – September 1504)

Philip I, (13 November 1504 – 31 March 1567)

Excursus

Margaret of Lorraine, Blessed

childhood to marriage

Margaret was the youngest daughter of Frederick II, Count of Vaudémont and Yolande d'Anjou. She lost her father at the age of seven, and was brought up at Aix-en-Provence by her grandfather René of Anjou. The latter died in 1480 and she was sent back to Lorraine to her brother, René II. He arranged her marriage to René, Duke of Alençon, whom she wed in Toul on 14 May 1488 [when she was 15]

children

Charles IV of Alençon (1489–1525), married Marguerite of Angoulême as her first husband.

Françoise of Alençon, Duchess of Beaumont (1490- 14 September 1550), married firstly in 1505, François, Duke of Longueville; married secondly in 1513, Charles de Bourbon, Duke of Vendôme, by whom she had thirteen children.

Anne, Lady of La Guerche (30 October 1492- 18 October 1562), married in 1508, William IX Palaeologos, Marquis of Montferrat by whom she had three children.

widowhood

Left a widow in 1492, she busied herself in the administration of her duchy and the education of her children. When she was relieved of the duties imposed upon her by her position, she decided to renounce the world and retired to Mortagne, to a monastery of religious women who followed the rule of Saint Elizabeth. Later, having brought with her to Argentan some of these nuns, she founded there another monastery which she placed, with the authorization of the pope, under the rule of Saint Clare, modified by the Minor Observants.

She herself took the religious habit in this house and made her vows on 11 October 1520. On 2 November 1521, after having lived an austere life for a year, she died in her modest cell, at the age of sixty-two. Her body, preserved in the monastery of the Poor Clares, and when that monastery was suppressed, was transferred to the church of Saint Germain d'Argentan. In 1793, during the French Revolution, it was profaned and thrown into the common burial place.

The memory of Margaret of Lorraine is preserved in the Martyrologium franciscanum and in the Martyrologium gallicanum. After an invitation made by the bishop of Séez, Jacques Camus de Pontcarré, Louis XIII asked Pope Urban VIII to order a canonical inquiry into the virtues and the miracles of the Duchess.

Excursus

Margaret of Anjou

marriage

On 23 April 1445 [when she was 15], Margaret married King Henry VI of England, who was eight years her senior, at Titchfield Abbey in Hampshire.

child

When he married Margaret, his mental condition was already unstable and by the birth of their only son, Edward of Westminster, Prince of Wales (born 13 October 1453), he had suffered a complete breakdown. (13 October 1453 – 4 May 1471)

Excursus

Yolande of Anjou / Francis I, Duke of Brittany

latter's first marriage

Francis I's first marriage was to Yolande of Anjou, daughter of Louis II, Duke of Anjou and Yolande of Aragon; they were married at Nantes in 1431. [she was 19]

son

Francis and Yolande had a son, Renaud, Count of Montfort. His son Renaud died young and his wife Yolande died in 1440.

second marriage

His second marriage was to Isabel of Scotland (daughter of James I, King of Scots and Joan Beaufort); he married Isabel at the Château d'Auray on 30 October 1442. [she was 16]

daughters

Margaret of Brittany (1443–1469, Nantes), married Francis II, Duke of Brittany

Marie of Brittany (1444–1506), married John II, Viscount of Rohan and Count of Porhoët.

Excursus

Margaret of Brittany

marriage

On 13 or 16 November 1455 [she was 12], Margaret was married to Francis of Étampes, her first cousin once removed, at the Château de l'Hermine in Vannes. She became Duchess of Brittany upon his accession as "Francis II, Duke of Brittany" in 1458.

son

Their only son John, Count of Montfort, died at a young age. (second marriage of Francis, see Margaret de Foix]

Excursus

Marie of Brittany

marriage

Marie of Brittany married John II of Rohan, Viscount of Rohan, Count of Leon and Porhoët in 1462. [she was 18]

children

François (10 Jul 1469-killed in action 1488)

Jean (2 Oct 1476-2 Jun 1505)

Jacques, Viscount of Rohan and Leon, Count de Porhoet, (1478-16 Oct 1527); married first Françoise de Rohan; married second Françoise, daughter of Jean de Daillon (and later wife of Joachim de Goyon de Matignon, Count de Thorigny)

Georges (1479-1502)

Claude, (1480-15 Jul 1540) Bishop of Leon and after the death of his brother Jacques,Viscount of Rohan from 1527 until 1540.

Anne, Viscountess of Rohan (1485-5 April 1529) m.27 Sep 1515 Pierre de Rohan, Lord of Frontenay (k.a.1525) [1] Her son René I, Viscount of Rohan would later become the 18th Viscount of Rohan.

Marie, d.9 Jun 1542; m.17 Nov 1511 Louis IV de Rohan, Lord of Guémené (d.1527)

Excursus

Charles, Count of Maine

first marriage

In 1434, he married Cobella Ruffo (d. 1442), Countess of Montalto and Corigliano

son

Jean Louis Marin of Anjou, died as an infant.

second marriage

in 1443, to Isabelle of Luxembourg (d. 1472)

children

Louise of Anjou (1445–1477, Carlat), married in 1462 [at 17] at Poitiers, Jacques d'Armagnac, Duke of Nemours (d. 1477).

Charles IV, Duke of Anjou (1446–1481)

Excursus

Jacques d'Armagnac

marriage

In 1462, Jacques succeeded his father, and Louis XI married him to his god-daughter, Louise of Anjou, daughter of Charles of Le Maine.

children

Jacques (d. young)

Jean d'Armagnac, Duke of Nemours (1467–1500)

Louis d'Armagnac, Duke of Nemours (1472–1503)

Marguerite d'Armagnac, Duchess of Nemours (d. 1503), married Peter de Rohan (d.1514)

Catherine d'Armagnac (d. 1487), married John II, Duke of Bourbon in 1484

Charlotte d'Armagnac, Duchess of Nemours (d. 1504), married Charles de Rohan (d.1504)

Excursus

Jean d'Armagnac, Duke of Nemours

He married Yolande de La Haye (d. 1517) in 1492, but had no children.

Excursus

Louis d'Armagnac, Duke of Nemours

not married. Since his sisters have no own articles, we'll use those of their husbands.

Excursus

Pierre de Rohan-Gié

premier mariage

Arrangé par Louis XI, il avait épousé en premières noces le 20 janvier 147613 Françoise de Penhoët21, vicomtesse de Fronsac, dame de La Boëssière, La Marche en Bédée (La Marché), La Motte-Glain

enfants

Charles (1478 † 1528), seigneur de Gié et de La Marché, comte de Guise par son mariage en 1504 avec Charlotte d'Armagnac (cf. ci-dessous ; elle † peu après) ; fait comte d'Orbec par François Ier en janvier 1527 en échange du comté de Guise

François (1479 † 1536), archevêque de Lyon (1502-1536)

Pierre II († 1525), seigneur de Frontenay, et de Gié, mari d'Anne de Rohan : d'où la suite des vicomtes de Rohan comtes de Porhoët

secondes noces

Veuf, il s'était remarié en 1503 avec Marguerite d'Armagnac († 1503), comtesse de Guise, fille de Jacques d'Armagnac, duc de Nemours et comte de la Marche, et de Louise d'Anjou. Ils n'eurent pas d'enfants.

Excursus

John II, Duke of Bourbon

first marriage

In 1447, his father, the Duke of Bourbon, had his heir married to a daughter of Charles VII, King of France, Joan of Valois. [she was 12]

They were duly married at the Château de Moulins. They had no surviving issue.

second marriage

In 1484 at St. Cloud to Catherine of Armagnac, daughter of Jacques of Armagnac, Duke of Nemours, who died in 1487 while giving birth to

son

John of Bourbon (Moulins, 1487 - 1487), styled Count of Clermont

third marriage

In 1487 he married Jeanne of Bourbon-Vendôme, daughter of John of Bourbon, Count of Vendôme, by whom he had one son

by whom he had one son

Louis of Bourbon (1488 - 1488), styled Count of Clermont

Excursus

Charles de Rohan-Gié

premières noces

Afin de conserver Guise dans la famille, il épouse le 24 février 1504 Charlotte d'Armagnac, comtesse de Guise et dame de Sablé, fille de Jacques d'Armagnac, duc de Nemours et comte de la Marche, et de Louise d'Anjou, la sœur de la seconde épouse de son père. Mais Charlotte meurt en août 1504 et un procès oppose alors la Maison de Rohan à celle de Lorraine à propos de la possession de Guise.

secondes noces

il se remarie avec Giovanna di Sanseverino, fille de Bernardino di Sanseverino, prince de Bisignano et de Jeanne/Diane Eléonore Piccolimini d’Aragon (arrière-petite-fille illégitime par les femmes d’Alphonse V d'Aragon).

enfants

François (1515 † 1559) seigneur de Gyé, vicomte de Fronsac et comte d'Orbec

Claude de Thoury de Rohan-Gié, célèbre maîtresse du Roi François Ier.

la marquise Jacqueline de Rohan-Gyé († 1587), mariée à François d'Orléans-Longueville, marquis de Rothelin. Leur fils fut le duc Léonor et leur fille épousa Louis Ier prince de Bourbon-Condé, d'où les Bourbon-Soissons, fondus dans les d'Albert de Luynes comtes de Dunois et dans les Savoie-Carignan ancêtres des rois d'Italie.

Excursus

Charles IV, Duke of Anjou

In 1474 he married Joan of Lorraine (1458 – 25 January 1480), daughter of Frederick II of Vaudémont, but they had no children. He died on 10 December 1481. He willed his inheritance to his cousin Louis XI of France, whose heirs thus obtained a claim to the affairs of Italy, pursued in the next decades.

France St Louis IX to Louis XI, II

France St Louis IX to Louis XI : Part I · Part II · Part III · Part IV · Part V
Stats: Age at death · Age at first marriage : a rough estimate

Continuing previous

Excursus

Marie of Savoy, Countess of Saint-Pol

First betrothal

In 1454 at the age of six, she was betrothed to Filippo Maria Sforza (1448–1492), the son of Francesco I Sforza, Duke of Milan, and Bianca Maria Visconti. The contract was dated 13 December 1454.[1] For reasons unknown, the betrothal was annulled, and he married instead his cousin, Costanza Sforza.

[Since only betrothed, not married, the betrothal could be reversed]

Second betrothal/first marriage

In 1466, she married Louis de Luxembourg, Count of Saint-Pol, de Brienne, de Ligny, and Conversano, Constable of France (1418–19 December 1475). The marriage contract was dated 1 August 1466.

Children

Louis of Luxembourg, Duke of Andria, and of Venosa, Prince of Altamura (died 31 December 1503), married Eleanor of Guevara and Beaux, Princess of Altamura. He was Governor of Picardy and a Lieutenant General in the French Army.

Jeanne of Luxembourg, a nun in Ghent

Marguerite of Luxembourg (died 1494), Abbess of Soissons

First marriage of II Hb

his first wife, Jeanne de Bar, Countess of Marle and Soissons having died in 1462.

John of Luxembourg, Count of Marle and Soissons, Governor of Burgundy (killed at the Battle of Morat on 22 June 1476)

Jacqueline of Luxembourg, (died 1511), married Philippe de Croy, 2nd Count of Porcien, by whom she had issue.

Peter II (Pierre de Luxembourg; c. 1440 – 25 October 1482) was Count of Saint-Pol, of Brienne, Marle, and Soissons.

Helene of Luxembourg (died 23 August 1488), married Janus of Savoy, Count of Faucigny, Governor of Nice (1440–1491), the brother of her sister-in-law, Marguerite of Savoy, by whom she had a daughter, Louise of Savoy (1467- 1 May 1530).

Charles of Luxembourg, Bishop of Laon (1447 - 24 November 1509), had several illegitimate children by an unknown mistress.

Anthony I, Count of Ligny (1450–1519)

Philippe of Luxembourg, Abbot at Moncel

Excursus

Bona of Savoy

Gian Galeazzo Sforza (20 June 1469 – 21 October 1494), married his first cousin Isabella of Naples (2 October 1470 – 11 February 1524), by whom he had issue, including Bona Sforza, Queen consort of King Sigismund I of Poland, who in her turn had six children.

Hermes Maria Sforza (10 May 1470 – 18 September 1503), Marquis of Tortona.

Bianca Maria Sforza (5 April 1472 – 31 December 1510), in January 1474, married firstly Philibert I, Duke of Savoy; on 16 March 1494, married secondly, Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I, she had no issue by her two husbands.

Anna Maria Sforza (21 July 1476 – 30 November 1497), married Alfonso I d'Este, later Duke of Ferrara. She died in childbirth.

Excursus

Gian Galeazzo Sforza

Francesco Sforza (1491–1512)

Ippolita Maria Sforza (1493-1501)

Bona Sforza (1494–1557); married Sigismund I of Poland

Bianca Maria Sforza (posthumously 1495–1496)

Excursus

Anna Sforza

In 1477, Anna was formally betrothed to the heir of Ercole I d'Este, Duke of Ferrara. Her wedding with Prince Alfonso d'Este took place fourteen years later, on 12 January 1491, amidst banquets, receptions, and theatrical representations. However, the marriage was unhappy: blonde and without femininity, Anna, all her time dressed like a man, refused to consummate her union, preferred the company of women and spent every night with a small black slave.[1]

Only after six years of marriage, Anna finally became pregnant, but died in childbirth; while some sources reported that her child, a son, died immediately after being baptized; others,[2][3][4][5] said that he survived and was named Alessandro, dying in 1514 aged 17. She was buried in the monastery of San Vito, of which Anna was a benefactor. Her husband was unable to take part of her funeral because at that time his face was disfigured as a consequence of syphilis.[6]

Her death marked the end of the bond between the Sforza and Este families. Alfonso remarried, to Lucrezia Borgia, in 1502.

Excursus

Jacques of Savoy, Count of Romont

Amadeus suffered from epilepsy and let his wife, Yolande of Valois, and his brother, the Count of Bresse govern for him. He died in 1472 and was succeeded by his son Philibert, who was only 6 years old. The young Duke's mother, Yolande, became his regent and tutor.

Excursus

Margaret of Savoy, Duchess of Anjou

First Marriage

Margaret married firstly Louis, Duke of Anjou, the titular King of Naples.[1] He was a son of Louis II of Anjou and Yolande of Aragon. Their first marriage contract is dated on 31 Mar 1431. She became known as the Duchess of Anjou. They had no children, and he died in 1434.

Second marriage

In 1445, Margaret next married Louis IV, Count Palatine of the Rhine.[2] He was a son of Louis III, Elector Palatine and his second wife Matilda of Savoy. Margaret became Countess of the Palatinate through this alliance. Their marriage lasted only four years, as Louis died on 13 August 1449.

Son

Philip, Elector Palatine (14 July 1448 – 28 February 1508).

Third Marriage

Thirdly, she married in Stuttgart 11 November 1453 Ulrich V, Count of Württemberg. They were both the other's third spouses. She added the title Countess of Württemberg to her many titles through this alliance.

Children

Margaret (c. 1454[3] – 21 April 1470), married 23 April 1469 to Count Philip I of Eppstein-Königstein

Philippine (c. 1456[3] – 4 June 1475, Weert), married 22 April/4 June 1470 to Count James II of Horn.

Helene (c. 1460[3] – 19 February 1506), married in Waldenburg 26 February 1476 to Count Kraft VI of Hohenlohe-Neuenstein.

I marriage of III Hb

First, he married in Stuttgart 29 January 1441 to Margaret of Cleves, daughter of Duke Adolf I of Cleves and Mary of Burgundy.

Daughter

Katharina (7 December 1441 – 28 June 1497, Würzburg), a nun in Laufen.

II marriage of III Hb

Second, he married in Stuttgart 8 February 1445 to Elisabeth of Bavaria-Landshut, daughter of Henry XVI of Bavaria and Margarete of Austria.

Children

Margareta (ca. 1446[2] – 21 July 1479, Worms), a nun in Liebenau monastery.

Duke Eberhard II (1 February 1447, Waiblingen – 17 February 1504, Castle Lindenfels, Odenwald).

Henry (7 September 1448 – 15 April 1519), Count of Montbéliard.

Ulrich (ca. 1449 – died young).

Elisabeth (23 December 1450, Landshut – 6 April 1501), married in Münnerstadt 13 September 1469 to Count Friedrich II of Henneberg.

Excursus

Margaret of Bourbon, Lady of Albret

...was a daughter of Peter I, Duke of Bourbon, and his wife Isabella of France, who was a daughter of Charles of France. Margaret was a member of the House of Bourbon.

Margaret married Arnaud Amanieu, Lord of Albret, on 30 June 1368; the marriage was the outcome of a secret treaty between Charles V of France and Arnaud Amanieu. The couple had one son, Charles d'Albret (b. December 1368 - d. 25 October 1415), who became Count of Dreux and Constable of France. He was killed at the Battle of Agincourt.

Excursus

Charles I of Albret

Marriage

He married, as her third husband, Marie de Sully,[5] daughter of Louis de Sully and Isabel de Craon,[1] on 27 January 1400

Jeanne d'Albret (1403–1433), married in 1422 John I, Count of Foix. She was his second wife; the only one of his three wives who bore him issue. Gaston IV of Foix was the eldest of their two sons.

Charles II d'Albret (1407–1471), married Anne of Armagnac (born 1402), the daughter of Bernard VII of Armagnac, Count of Charolais and Bonne of Berry, by whom he had seven children. Queen Jeanne III of Navarre was a notable descendant.

Guillaume d'Albret (d. 1429), Lord of Orval

Jean d'Albret

Catherine d'Albret, married Jean de Montagu (1363–1409), vidame of Laon and illegitimate son of Charles V of France.

I and II marriages of Marie de Sully, not known

Excursus

John I, Count of Foix/Jeanne d'Albret

(she was his second wife)

Gaston (27 November 1422 - 25 July/28 July 1472), succeeded his father and married Eleanor of Navarre (niece of John's first wife).

Peter (died 1454) Viscount of Lautrec

III marriage

After Jeanne's death, John married thirdly in 1436 to Joanna, daughter of James II of Urgell and Isabella of Aragon; they had no children [like the first], but the marriage helped John recover the remaining Spanish property he was owed.

Excursus

Gaston IV, Count of Foix

Gaston de Foix (1443-1470), (sometimes called “Gaston V of Foix”), Viscount of Castelbon, Prince of Viana (1462-1470), lieutenant general of Navarre (1469).

Jean de Foix (1446-1500), Viscount of Narbonne (1468-1500), Count d'Étampes (1478-1500). He claimed the throne of Navarre upon the death of his nephew François Phébus. He married in 1476 Marie of Orleans (1457-1493)

Marguerite de Foix (1449-1486), married at Clisson on 27 June 1471 Francis II, Duke of Brittany. They were parents of Anne of Brittany, twice queen of France as consort to both Charles VIII and Louis XII.

Pierre de Foix (7 February 1449 to 10 August 1490), (sometimes called “Pierre II of Foix”), called Pierre the Young, cardinal (1576), viceroy of Navarre (1479-1484)

Marie de Foix (c.1452-1467), married Guglielmo VIII, Marquis of Montferrat, son of Giangiacomo of Montferrat and his wife Jeanne de Savoie

Jeanne de Foix (c.1454-c.1476), married in August 1469 in Lectoure, to Jean V of Armagnac (1420-1473).

Catherine de Foix (c.1460-before 1494), married in 1469 Gaston de Foix, Count of Candale (c.1440-1500), (sometimes called “Gaston II of Foix”)

Isabel de Foix (after 1462).

Leonor de Foix (after 1466 - died young).

Jacques de Foix, Infante de Navarra (1469-in France 1500), Count de Montfort. Married in 1485 and divorced in 1494 Ana de Peralta, daughter of Pedro de Peralta, 1st Count de Santisteban y Lerín and his second wife Isabelle de Grailly. Married secondly in 1495 Catherine de Beaumont, daughter of Louis de Beaumont, 2nd Count de Lerín and his wife Leonor de Aragón. Jacques and his second wife had one child: Jean de Foix, abbot of Saint-Volusien-de-Foix. Jacques also had two illegitimate children by unknown mistresses: Frederic de Foix (-1537), Seigneur d'Almenèches, and Jacques de Foix (-7 Apr 1535), Bishop of Oloron and Lescar.

Excursus

Gaston, Prince of Viana

Francis I of Navarre, 1466–1483, King of Navarre 1479–1483

Catherine I of Navarre, 1470–1518, Queen-regnant of Navarre 1483–1518

Excursus

Francis Phoebus of Navarre

He died young while playing the pipe, arguably poisoned.

Excursus

Catherine of Navarre

marriage

In 1484, hard pressed by ambitions over the throne of Navarre, Magdalena of Valois decided to marry 15-year-old Catherine to John of Albret, hailing from a noble family in western Gascony.

children

Anne of Navarre (19 May 1492 – 15 August 1532)

Magdalena of Navarre (29 March 1494 – May 1504)

Catherine of Navarre (1495 – November 1532). Abbess of the Trinity at Caen.

Joan of Navarre (15 June 1496 – last mentioned in November, 1496).

Quiteria of Navarre (1499 – September/October 1536). Abbess at Montivilliers.

A stillborn son in 1500.

Andrew Phoebus of Navarre (14 October 1501 – 17 April 1503).

Henry II of Navarre (18 April 1503 – 25 May 1555).

Buenaventura of Navarre (14 July 1505 – 1510/1511).

Martin of Navarre (c. 1506 – last mentioned in 1512).

Francis of Navarre (1508 – last mentioned in 1512).

Charles of Navarre (12 December 1510 – September 1528). Took part in the Siege of Naples during the War of the League of Cognac but was captured. Died while still held as a prisoner of war.

Isabella of Navarre (1513/1514 – last mentioned in 1555). Married Rene I, Viscount of Rohan.

Excursus

John of Foix, Viscount of Narbonne

marriage

He married Marie of Orléans, sister of Louis XII, in 1476.

children

Germaine of Foix (1488–1538), who married Ferdinand II of Aragon, and whose relationship to the Navarrese throne was used as an excuse by Ferdinand to claim the throne of Navarre.

Gaston of Foix (1489–1512), who served as a general for his uncle Louis XII, dying at the Battle of Ravenna in Italy.

Excursus

Germaine of Foix

II wife of Ferdinant of Aragon

John, Prince of Girona, who died hours after being born on 3 May 1509

I wife of Hb

Isabella (1470–1498), Princess of Asturias (1497–1498). She married first Afonso, Prince of Portugal, but after his death she married his cousin Prince Manuel, the future King Emanuel I of Portugal. She died in childbirth delivering her son Miguel da Paz (Michael of Peace), Crown Prince of both Portugal and Spain who, in turn, died in infancy.

A Son miscarried on 31 May 1475 in Cebreros

John (1478–1497), Prince of Asturias (1478–1497). He married Margaret of Habsburg (daughter of King Maximilian I). He died of tuberculosis and his posthumous child with Margaret was stillborn.

Joanna I (1479–1555), Princess of Asturias (1500–1504), Queen of Castile (1504–1555), Queen of Aragon (1516–1555). She married Philip I (Philip the handsome) (son of the Emperor Maximilian I); and was the mother of King Charles I of Spain (also known as Charles V as Holy Roman Emperor). Ferdinand made her out to be mentally unstable and she was incarcerated by her father, and then by her son, in Tordesillas for over 50 years. Her grandson, Philip II of Spain, was crowned in 1556.

Maria (1482–1517). She married King Emanuel I of Portugal, the widower of her elder sister Isabella, and was the mother of King John III of Portugal and of the Cardinal-King, Henry I of Portugal.

A Stillborn Daughter, twin of Maria. Born 1 July 1482 at dawn.

Catalina, later known Catherine of Aragon, queen of England, (1485–1536). She married first Arthur, Prince of Wales, son of and heir to King Henry VII of England and, after Prince Arthur's death, she married his brother Henry, Duke of York, who also became Prince of Wales and then King Henry VIII. She thus became Queen of England and was the mother of Queen Mary I.

Excursus

Margaret of Foix

marriage

On 27 June 1474, at the Château de Clisson, she married Francis II, Duke of Brittany (1435–1488), son of Richard of Brittany, Count of Étampes (1395–1438), and Margaret of Orléans, Countess of Vertus (1406–1466). It was Francis's second marriage, his first wife, Margaret of Brittany, having died in 1469.

children

Anne of Brittany (1477–1514), Duchess of Brittany (1488–1514), and twice Queen Consort of France: from 1491 to 1498 as the wife of King Charles VIII of France, and from 1499 to 1514 as the wife of King Louis XII of France.

Isabeau of Brittany (1478–1490), betrothed to Jean d'Albret in 1481, died young, and was buried in the Rennes Cathedral.

I marriage of Hb

On 13 or 16 November 1455, Margaret was married to Francis of Étampes, her first cousin once removed, at the Château de l'Hermine in Vannes. She became Duchess of Brittany upon his accession as "Francis II, Duke of Brittany" in 1458.

son

Their only son John, Count of Montfort, died at a young age.

Excursus

Catherine of Foix, Countess of Candale

marriage

Catherine married her second cousin Gaston II de Foix, Count of Candale and Benauges.

children

Gaston de Foix, 3rd Count of Candale.

Jean de Foix, Archbishop of Bordeaux.

Pierre de Foix, died without issue.

Anne de Foix (1484 – 26 July 1506), married King Ladislaus II of Bohemia and Hungary.

Excursus

Anne of Foix-Candale

marriage

The elderly, twice-divorced and childless king Vladislaus II of Hungary of the Jagiellon dynasty had been searching a wife capable of giving him a son. His sights were set on a powerful alliance, and Anne, closely related to French royalty, was a good choice. So Anne got engaged in 1500, the marriage contract confirmed in 1501, and she wed Vladislaus by proxy at the French court in Blois in 1502. On her way to Hungary, she was much celebrated in Italy and in Venice, causing a conflict between France and Hungary over who should pay the expenses. On 29 September 1502 [18 years old], Anne wed Vladislaus in Székesfehérvár and she was crowned Queen of Hungary there that same day.

children

Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (Buda, Hungary, 23 July 1503 – Prague, Bohemia, 27 January 1547), later Queen consort of Hungary and Bohemia. Married Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor, and they inherited Bohemia and what was left of Hungary. [She died in Prague, days after giving birth to her last daughter Joanna.]

Louis II of Hungary and Bohemia, born on July 1, 1506, killed at the Battle of Mohács on August 29, 1526. Married Mary of Habsburg; their marriage was childless, although he fathered illegitimate issue.

Excursus

Jacques de Foix, Count of Montfort

Jacques and his second wife had one child, Jean de Foix, abbot of Saint-Volusien-de-Foix.

Excursus

Marie de Bourbon, Princess of Achaea

first marriage

On 29 November 1328, Marie was betrothed to Guy of Lusignan, titular Prince of Galilee at the Château de Bourbon. Her betrothed was a son of Hugh IV of Cyprus and his first wife Marie d'Ibelin.[1] On 20 December 1328, Marie and Guy were married by proxy. The Chronicle of Amadi records her arrival at Famagusta, Kingdom of Cyprus in June 1329. On 31 January 1330, Marie and Guy were married in person at Santa Sophia, Nicosia. [15 years old]

son

Hugh of Lusignan, their only known son, was born in about 1335. Her husband was appointed Constable of Cyprus between 1336 and 1338. He died in 1343 from unstated causes. The correspondence of Pope Clement VI includes a letter of condolences for the demise of Guy, dated to 24 September 1343. The actual death likely occurred in the months preceding the letter.[3] The widowed Marie was not allowed to leave Cyprus until 1346 by orders of her father-in-law.[4]

second marriage

On 9 September 1347, Marie married her second husband Robert of Taranto, a first cousin, once removed to Joan. Her new husband was the claimant to the throne of the Latin Empire while holding both the Principality of Taranto and the Principality of Achaea. He had also been appointed a Captain General in the military of Naples.

son? no son?

On 10 September 1364, Robert of Taranto died. Their marriage had been childless and his legal heir was his younger brother Philip II of Taranto. However Marie contested the succession. By 1364, Marie owned sixteen castles in Achaia and thus controlled a considerable section of the Principality. She kept the title of Princess of Achaia and put forth her son Hugh as her own candidate for the throne of the principality. Hugh was still unable to claim the throne of Cyprus but his uncle Peter I named him Prince of Galilee in 1365. In 1366, Hugh invaded the Peloponnese at the head of 12,000 mercenaries, initiating a civil war for Achaia

Excursus

James I, Count of La Marche

Isabelle (1340–1371), married Louis II, Viscount of Beaumont-au-Maine, in Lyon (1362); married Bouchard VII, Count of Vendôme (1364)

Pierre II, Count of La Marche (1342–1362)

Jean I, Count of La Marche (1344–1393); it is from him that all French Kings starting from Henry IV are descended in the male line.

Jacques de Bourbon, Baron de Thury (1346–1417), married (c. 1385) Marguerite, dame de Preaux, de Dangu and de Thury.[4] They had six children, of whom two sons married: Pierre de Bourbon, seigneur de Preaux, who wed Elisabeth de Montagu, widow of Jean IV de Pierrepont, Count of Roucy, and eldest daughter of Jean, seigneur de Marcoussi, Grand Master of France; and Jacques de Bourbon, Baron de Thury, who renounced his benefices in 1417 to marry Jeanne de Montagu, third daughter of Jean, Seigneur de Marcoussi and sister of his elder brother's wife, after whose death in 1419 Jacques resumed holy orders, first in the Celestines and then in the Cordeliers.[4] Neither Pierre nor Jacques de Bourbon left legitimate issue.[4]

Excursus

Beatrice of Bourbon, Queen of Bohemia

first marriage:

The marriage of King John of Bohemia and Beatrice of Bourbon was solemnized in the Château de Vincennes in December 1334, at which time she was fourteen years old. But because the two were related in a prohibited degree (they were second cousins through their common descent from Henry V, Count of Luxembourg, and his wife Margaret of Bar), Pope Benedict XII had to give dispensation for the marriage, which was granted in Avignon on 9 January 1335 at the request of Philip VI.

son:

Wenceslaus I (also Wenceslas, Venceslas, Wenzel, or Václav, often called Wenceslaus of Bohemia in chronicles) (Prague, 25 February 1337 – Luxembourg, 7 December 1383) was the first Duke of Luxembourg from 1354.

second marriage:

Around 1347, Beatrice married for a second time to Eudes II, Lord of Grancey, (then a widower) at her state of Damvillers. Despite her new marriage, she retained the title of Queen of Bohemia. The couple had no children.[1][2] Soon after her second marriage, she arranged the betrothal of her son Wenceslaus with the widowed Joanna, Duchess of Brabant, daughter and heiress of John III, Duke of Brabant, who was fifteen years older than he was. The marriage took place in Damvillers four years later, on 17 May 1351.

Excursus

John of Charolais

[grandson of St Louis IX, remember?]

marriage

C. 1309, John married Joanna of Dargies and Catheux (daughter of Renaud II of Dargies and Catheux and his spouse, Agnes).

daughters:

John and his wife had a daughter, Lady Beatrice of Charolais, who succeeded her father. (janvier 1311 † Rodez 25 août 1364) [she was 17]

Another daughter of John’s was Joanna, wife to John I, Count of Auvergne (vers 1314 † Brios en Vermandois ? le 27 juillet 1388)

Excursus

Jean Ier d'Auvergne

mariage

En 1328, le futur Jean Ier épousa Jeanne (morte en 1383), dame de Saint-Just, fille de Jean de Clermont, seigneur de Charolais.

enfans:

Marie d'Auvergne-Boulogne qui épousa Raymond VIII, vicomte de Turenne.

Jean II (mort en 1404), comte d’Auvergne (1386-1404) et comte de Boulogne (1386-1404)

Excursus

Jean II d'Auvergne

mariage

Le 11 août 1373, il épousa Aliénor de Comminges (dates de vie non connues), fille de Pierre Raymond II (mort vers 1376), comte de Comminges, et de Jeanne de Comminges (morte après 1398).

fille

Jeanne II d'Auvergne (1378-1424), morte sans postérité connue / Joan II, Countess of Auvergne

Excursus

Joan II, Countess of Auvergne

first marriage

In 1389, Joan was married to John, Duke of Berry, a son of John II of France, whose wife had died in the previous year.[4][5] They had no children. At the age of fifteen, Joan was present at the infamous Bal des Ardents given by Queen Isabeau, wife of the Duke of Berry's nephew King Charles, on 28 January 1393. During this, the King and five nobles dressed up as wildmen, clad "in costumes of linen cloth sewn onto their bodies and soaked in resinous wax or pitch to hold a covering of frazzled hemp," and proceeded to dance about chained together. At length, the King became separated from the others, and made his way to the Duchess, who jokingly refused to let him wander off again until he told her his name. When Charles' brother, Louis of Orléans, accidentally set the other dancers on fire, Joan swathed the King in her skirts, protecting him from the flames and saving his life.

second marriage

Joan was widowed upon the death of the Duke of Berry in 1416. She married Georges de la Trémoille soon after; however, they produced no children, and the counties passed to her cousin, Marie I of Auvergne, upon her death in 1424.

Excursus

Marie I, Countess of Auvergne

marriage

Sometime after 11 January 1389 [she was 13], Marie married Bertrand IV, Seigneur de La Tour, the son of Guy de La Tour and Marthe Rogier de Beaufort

children

Bertrand V de La Tour, Seigneur de La Tour, Count of Auvergne and Boulogne (died March 1461), married in 1416 Jacquette du Peschin (c.1400- 1473) by whom he had six children. His descendants (among which there is his great-granddaughter Marie d'Albret, Countess of Rethel) were known by the name of de La Tour d'Auvergne.

Jeanne de La Tour (c.1390- before 1416), married Beraud III, Count of Clermont (1375–1426) by whom she had one daughter, Jeanne.

Isabelle de La Tour (b.1395), married 12 September 1419 Louis Armand Chalancon, Viscount of Polignac (1379-1452) by whom she had six children.

Louise de La Tour (died 14 June 1471), married firstly Tristan de Clermont-Lodève; she married secondly Claude de Montagu, Seigneur de Couches et d'Espoisses. Both marriages were childless. [Louise, (1410 † 1472), mariée en 1433 à Claude de Montagu, seigneur de Couches († 1471)]

Excursus

Agnes of France, Duchess of Burgundy

marriage

She married Robert II, Duke of Burgundy[2] in 1279 [19], and became the mother of eight children.

children

Hugh V, Duke of Burgundy (1282–1315).[2]

Blanche (1288–1348), married Edward, Count of Savoy.

Margaret (1290–1315), married king Louis X of France.

Joan (ca.1290–1348), married count of Maine and Valois, later king Philip VI of France.

Odo IV, Duke of Burgundy (1295–1350).

Louis, King of Thessalonica (1297–1316), married Matilda of Hainaut.

Mary (1298–1336) married Edward I, Count of Bar

Robert, Count of Tonnerre (1302–1334), married Joanna, heiress of Tonnerre.

Jean (v. 1279 † 1283)

Marguerite, née en 1285, morte jeune

Excursus

Hugh V, Duke of Burgundy

Hugh was betrothed to Catherine of Valois in 1302, but the betrothal was broken off 30 September 1312,[1] and he had no known descendants.

Excursus

Blanche de Bourgogne (comtesse de Savoie)

mariage

La duchesse Agnès — « préoccupée de l'avenir de ses enfants », selon l'historien Ernest Petit — négocie le mariage de sa fille avec le fils aîné du comte Amédée V de Savoie, le jeune Édouard1. Les pourparlers se déroulent à Paris, près du roi, et trouvent un accord le 27 septembre 13071. La princesse apporte en dot 20 000 livres et le comte s'engage à faire de son fils son successeur1. Le mariage est célébré le 17 octobre 1307 au château de Montbard, en Bourgogne1.

fille

Le couple n'a qu'un enfant, une fille, Jeanne (1310-1344)

Excursus

Joan of Savoy

marriage

Joan married in 1329 aged nineteen to the forty-three-year-old, childless John III, Duke of Brittany; she was his third wife, John's second wife Isabella had died the previous year. Joan and John were married for twelve years but produced no offspring, and John died on 30 April 1341, leaving Joan a childless widow. This led to a disputed succession in Brittany between John's half-brother of the same name and John's niece Joan.

Excursus

Margaret of Burgundy, Queen of France

see King Louis X and I.

Excursus

Joan the Lame

see King Philip VI.

Excursus

Odo IV, Duke of Burgundy

marriage

Joan III of Burgundy (1/2 May 1308 – 10/15 August 1349), also known as Joan of France was a reigning Countess of Burgundy and Artois, and a Duchess consort of Burgundy. She was married in 1318 [10] to Odo IV, Duke of Burgundy,

children

1

2

3

4

5

Joan bore six children. With the exception of Philip (November 10, 1323 – August 10, 1346), all were stillborn or died in infancy.

Excursus

Philip, as per above

He married Joan I, Countess of Auvergne and Boulogne, in c. 1338. In 1340, he fought with his father who defended the city of Saint-Omer against the assaults of Robert III of Artois. In 1346, he participated in the siege of Aiguillon, led by John, Duke of Normandy (the future John II of France). It was during this siege that he died, after falling from his horse.[2] His widow Joan remarried in 1349, her second husband being King John II of France. Since Philip had no other sons from his marriage to Joan, the future of the House of Burgundy was then placed in the hands of his young son Philip (1346–61), who afterwards died childless.[3]

His daughter, Joan (1344 – 11 September 1360), was betrothed to Amadeus VI, Count of Savoy from 1347 to 1355, and was raised at his court. When she was released from the engagement at age 10, she entered a convent at Poissy, where she remained for her final years.

Excursus

Edward I, Count of Bar

In 1310, he married Mary, daughter of Robert II, Duke of Burgundy,[1] and was declared to have attained his majority.

children

Henry IV, his successor (abt 1315–1344)

Eleanor (died 1332), married (1330) Rudolph, Duke of Lorraine, son of Frederick IV

Beatrice, married Guido Gonzaga, Lord of Mantua