Longevity in Selected Ancestry and Inlaws of Eleanor of Montfort

1) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : "in a time when most people died at an average age of 35" ; 2) What others have to say about Life Expectancy through history - and my take on that ; 3) Longevity in Selected Ancestry and Inlaws of Eleanor of Montfort ; 4) Tudor Times Demographical Stats ; 5) How Many Hours are we Talking About, and How Heavy? ; 6) New blog on the kid : When "Answers" Paint Middle Ages Black ; 7) Creation vs. Evolution : CMI Provided some Lifespans of the Past ; 8)Other list from CMI of lifespans ; 9) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Medieval and Early Modern Lifespans, Again: Berkeleys and Related ; 10) Story of a Cardinal's Title with Pre-Industrial Demographics

Eleanor de Montfort - wife of Llewelyn ap Gruffydd, who was killed by the English and whose daughter was shut up in a monastery by same English invaders - I will first give her ancestry. As to numeration, I am using the Sosa-Stradonitz system. Concerned person = 1. Father of n = 2n, mother of n=2n+1. Her own life was the statistic extreme of young death, 30, while the other extreme was 80.* Now, here is the chart, never mind if some entries contain French or German or Dutch (diverse wikis have diversely good information on same subject).

• De cujus
  • 1 Eleanor de Montfort 1252 – 19 June 1282
• Parents
  • 2 Simon de Montfort, 6th Earl of Leicester c. 1208 – 4 August 1265
  • 3 Eleanor of England 1215 – 13 April 1275
• Grandparents
  • 4 Simon de Montfort, 5th Earl of Leicester c.1175 – 25 June 1218
  • 5 Alix de Montmorency ? - died February 24, 1220-1221
  • 6 John of England 24 December 1166 – 19 October 1216
  • 7 Isabella of Angoulême c.1188 – 4 June 1246
• Greatgrandparents
  • 8 Simon (IV) de Montfort ? - † 1188
  • 9 Amicia de Beaumont ? - † 1215
  • 10 Bouchard V de Montmorency ? - † 1189 before Akkon
  • 11 Laurette of Hainaut ? - † 9. August 1181
  • 12 Henry II of England 5 March 1133 – 6 July 1189
  • 13 Eleanor of Aquitaine 1122 or 1124 – 1 April 1204
  • 14 Aymer Taillifer, Count of Angoulême c. 1160 – Limoges, le 16 juin 1202
  • 15 Alice of Courtenay c. 1160, morte le 12 février 1218

Let us get along with Alice of Courtenay, a bit more ancestry known than shown on previous, but a bit less well known as to years perhaps:

• De cujus
  • 1 Alice de Courtenay [1160, morte le 12 février 1218 – already counted in above list]
• Parents
  • 2 Pierre Ier de Courtenay, c. 1126, mort entre le 10 mars 1180 et le 10 avril 1183
  • 3 Élisabeth de Courtenay, c. 1127-1205
• Grandparents
  • 4 Louis VI de France 1er décembre 1081 à Paris, mort le 1er août 1137
  • 5 Adèle de Savoie c. 1100 - † 18 novembre 1154,
  • 6 Renaud de Courtenay ? - (II Croisade, contemprary to Louis VII) - died 27 September 1194
  • 7 Élisabeth Hélène (ou Eustachie) du Donjon ? - ?
• Great-grand-parents
  • 8 Philippe Ier de France né en 1052 et mort le 29 juillet 1108
  • 9 Berthe de Hollande/Frise née vers 1058 - morte le 30 juillet 1093 à Montreuil
  • 10 Humbert II de Savoie born after 1065 et mort le 14 octobre 1103
  • 11 Gisèle de Bourgogne [mariée en 1090 à Humbert II, comte de Savoie, puis vers 1105 à Rénier de Montferrat.] ([1075]-after 1133 – Her date of birth is estimated from her having given birth to five children by her second husband whom she married in [1105], and assuming that she was no more than 17 years old when she gave birth to her first child by her first husband.).
  • 12 Milo de Courtenay [? - mort après 1138/1069 - 1127]
  • 13 Ermengarde de Nevers 1058-1095 ! (3 years younger than her father acc. to those "facts")
  • 14 Frédéric du Donjon ? - ?
  • 15 ?
• Great-great-grandparents
  • 16 Henri Ier de France 4 May 1008 – 4 August 1060
  • 17 Anne de Kiev c. 1030 – 1075 (between 1024 and 1032)
  • 18 Florent Ier de Frise c. 1020; † 18. Juni 1061
  • 19 Gertrude de Saxe * c. 1035; † 4. August 1113
  • 20 Amédée II de Savoie c. 1050 – 26 janvier 1080
  • 21 Jeanne de Genève 1050 – 1095
  • 22 Guillaume Ier de Bourgogne * 1020; † 12. November 1087
  • 23 Stéphanie/Étienette [de Longwy-Metz? de Barcelone?] (née c. 1035-1045† 19. Oktober after 1088)
  • 24 Jocelin de Courtenay 1034 - ?
  • 25 Élisabeth de Montlhéry before around 1055 (her younger brother was born around 1055)
  • 26 Renaud II de Nevers né en 1055, mort le 5 août 1089 ! (3 years older than his daughter acc. to those "facts")
  • 27 Ide-Raymonde de Forez
  • 28 - 31 ?
• Great-great-great-grandparents
  • 32 Robert II de France c. 972 – 20 juillet 1031
  • 33 Constance d'Arles c. 986 à Arles – morte au château de Melun le 22 ou 25 juillet 1032
  • 34 Iaroslav le Sage (né en 978 et mort le 20 février 1054 à Vychgorod)
  • 35 Ingigerd c. 1000 - 1048 /1050 – daughter of Olof Skötkonung of Sweden, born around the time of his baptism (his baptism was to Sweden what Clovis’ was to the Franks)
  • 36 Thierry III de Frise ? - † 27. Mai 1039
  • 37 Othelindis de Nordmark ? † 9. März 1044
  • 38 Bernard II de Saxe 995 et mort en 1059
  • 39 Eilika de Schweinfurt c. 1005 - 10 december AFTER 1059
  • 40 Othon Ier de Savoie c. 1023 – 1060
  • 41 Adélaïde de Suse 1020 – 1091 (en secondes noces, veuve, ayant épousé le premier en âge de 15 ou 14)
  • 42 - 43 ?
  • 44 Renaud Ier de Bourgogne 986-1057
  • 45 Adélaïde de Normandie 1002 et morte vers 1038
  • 46 - 47 ?
  • 48 Athon/Hutton de Courtenay c. 985 – AFTER 1000
  • 49 ?
  • 50 - 51 ?
  • 52 Guillaume Ier de Nevers né vers 1029, mort le 20 juin 10981 ou en 10972 ou en 1100
  • 53 Ermengarde de Tonnerre v. 1032 - 1083
  • 54 - 63 ?

Summing up (both charts):

• Certain dates (in three cases with alternatives) : 30, 60, 50, 56, 78/80, 56, 56, 52, 43-51, 45, 67, 43-53, 46, 76, 64, 71, 71 = 58/59 longer count, 56 shorter count (17 individual persons)
• Uncertain birth dates, sometimes death dates too: c. 57 c. 43 c. 58 c. 42 c. 58 c. 56 c. 78 c. 54, c. 35, c. 63, c. 41, c. 78, c. 30, c. 59, c.48/50, c. 37, c. 36, c. 66-71, c. 51 high and low counts differing by half a year to c. 52 / c. 52 and a half (19 individual persons).
• One <38, and one >54.
• Unknown to present writer XIIII
• Unmentioned XXII
• Left aside because of obvious unsolved uncertainties III
• 77 persons, of whom 38 positively accounted for, with more or less certainty.

Now for the family she married into, Roman numerals indicating generations, and in some the middle date of three indicating accession to office of independent Prince of Wales:

• I
  • Llywelyn the Great 1173-1200-1240
• II
  • Gruffudd ap Llywelyn 1200-1244
  • Dafydd ap Llywelyn 1215-1240-1246
• III
  • Owain Goch ap Gruffudd d. 1282
  • Llywelyn ap Gruffudd 1223-1246-1282
  • Dafydd ap Gruffudd 1238-1282-1283
  • Rhodri ap Gruffudd 1230-1315
• IV a
  • Gwenllian of Wales (daughter of said Eleanor and of Llewelyn ap Gruffydd) 1282-1337
• IV b
  • Llywelyn ap Dafydd 1267-1283-1287
  • Owain ap Dafydd 1265-1287-1325
• IV c
  • Tomas ap Rhodri 1300-1325-1363
• V
  • Owain Lawgoch (ap Tomas) 1330-1378

This little selection hardly justifies a conclusion of life expectancy around 30 - at least unless you include child mortality, which these genealogies do not account for. Nevertheless, that was an estimate given in previous post on Middle Ages.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Anthony the Great
17-I-2015

* If medium is 56 or 52 and extremes are 30 and 80, we talk of a high statistic spread. Like the lengths of non-tandem standard type bikes have less statistic spread around medium than the lengths of trucks or busses. Life expectancy is a parameter that usually has a pretty great spread. And the medium for this ancestry is higher than the medium for Mali in 2014 - though that MIGHT include child mortality too.