Friday, April 28, 2017

Est-ce que Macron a qualifié la colonisation de l'Algérie de crime?

Laquelle? Celle par les Musulmans venus après Omar, après le deuxième calife, non? Ou celle par les Turks?

Quand a celle par la France, elle a contenu des crimes, elle n'en était pas un.

Il y a eu trois genres de crimes impliqués dedans, sinon quatre erreurs:

  • les enfumades par Bugeaud (quoique la faim comme arme de guerre a été, probablement, reconnu comme parfois licite), et ceci pas encore dès le début en 1829-30, mais 10 ans plus tard, brièvement;
  • la décision d'un gouverneur d'interdire aux prêtres catholiques de faire la mission en Kabylie;
  • la réforme des formes de propriété, refusant de reconnaître autres modalité de propriété que celle par individus;
  • l'acclimatisation à un peuple à administrer qui avait l'habitude de l'être par des pirates esclavagistes.

Quand j'ai quelque chose à écrire contre le psychiatrie, il y a deux genres de Puritain qui ne sont pas d'accord : les Musulmans y compris les Harkis, et les amis de ceux-ci, les Pieds-Noirs. Vous savez, c'est une communauté contre laquelle FN n'est pas en guéguerre, à savoir les:

"c'est nous les Africains qui venons de loin"

Et je soupçonne que ce genre d'attitude parmi eux vient du fait que leur sécurité tenait pendant 130 ans à la loyauté envers une administration qui, celle-ci, devait aussi administrer les gens qui avaient eu l'habitude d'être administrés par pirates.

Mais ce qui se passe en 1830, c'est à l'honneur de la France, et ce qui se passe le 26 mars 1962 à rue d'Isly est à l'honneur éternel de bien de fusillés, de tous qui ne se trouvaient pas en péché mortel pour d'autres raisons.

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre
St. Paul de la Croix

PS, si je pose le titre en question et non en affirmation, c'est qu'il semble y avoir une petite discrépance entre ces deux nouvelles:

1 Le Point : Macron et les harkis : la visite-surprise
Publié le 19/04/2017 à 16:02 | Le

2 Le Point : "Crime contre l'humanité" : Emmanuel Macron a-t-il parlé trop vite ?
Publié le 16/02/2017 à 15:27 | Le

If the Devil's Minion's Hate Latin - Maybe he Does so Himself?

When I was a small boy and read Dracula, I learned that:

"vampires fear three things : a crucifix, garlic and beans in Latin"

I asked what "beans in Latin" meant, beans being obviously sth you put into your mouth, and Latin seemed to be rather something which came out of it.

It seems the word "bönor" in Swedish resembled the word I was reading, "böner", especially as in my native pronunciation - since then somewhat poshed up - I had learned about "bönor" in a way which sounded more like "böner". Now, "bönor" is the plural of "böna" which means bean. While, "böner" is the plural of "bön" which means prayer. In other words, the sentence really meant:

"vampires fear three things : a crucifix, garlic and prayers in Latin"

And that was when I learned the word "prayer" - this first time as "bön", later as "Gebet", "prayer", "bønn", "Gebeed", "prière", and as you may guess, sooner or later "prex" and "oratio".

I also learned to note tiny differences in spelling, like between "böner" and "bönor".

Now, I don't really think the Devil hates all Latin. After all, one of the Greek names which add up to 666 is ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ, and King Latinus, the father in law of Aeneas was son of Picus, son of Saturn - a man, but one who shares the name of the Satanic rebel in Greek myths about origins. Also, Cicero wrote some nonsense, as did Lucretius in that language, and some have also called Codex Iuris Civilis "the Devil's Bible" - at least its study in last few centuries of Middle Ages made things worse for some categories, women becoming more dependent on men, poor beggars becoming less likely to remain free (though the application was not half as bad as the original decree, "in incertum vagantes", where a man begging while able bodied, even if not a runaway slave, would be treated like one and made a slave, that of whoever denounced him - no, Western Late Middle Ages did not get as bad as all that, it was modified to mean he was obliged to take work as a journeyman in whatever trade he knew, and if he didn't know one was obliged to take up one or two trades until he had a living - he was even free to beg rather than take up a third one, if he didn't manage on either of the two), also, perhaps certain expressions about relations between State and Church got into fuelling secularisation, which by now amounts to a secularism which neither the Late Middle Ages nor Justinian could have foreseen, a world in which "secular values" are an idol, and state recognition of a university is its difference to a "diploma mill".

But the Devil does - like Dracula - hate Latin prayers. So, a certain title "The Devil Hates Latin", it possibly might be short for the Devil hating Latin prayers and some other holy things in Latin (lika Summa Theologica and Vulgate Bible and Canon Law too).

Anyway, here is a novel which according to preview and blurb promises to be a bit saner than the Dracula I was reading back then:

The Devil Hates Latin Paperback – December 29, 2016
by Katharine Galgano (Author)

Since the preview is available there, I don't copy the blurb even. Suffice it to say, demons don't always possess dead corpses turning them into vampires, or if that is really suspended animation and there is some real soul left along with the demon, they also have a thing or two about possessing living people, and the exorcists who try to help them are very much into Latin - there is also a love story, I suppose.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Paul of the Cross

Thursday, April 27, 2017

On not trusting automatic translations!

On the status of a friend of a friend on FB, I found this:

Efter uppståndelsen var Jesus kropp förvandlad.Han kunde gå genom reglade dörrar, och han kunde aldrig mer dö. Hans kropp kunde inte åldras eller skadas.

Jesus var osårbar, ändå bar han sår.

In a distracted moment I clicked sth visible under it, and found it was a translation to French (it was on the FB account which I have in French).

Après l'excitation, le corps de Jésus s'est transformé. Il pourrait traverser les portes fermées, et il ne pouvait jamais mourir. Son corps ne peut pas devenir vieux ou endommagé.

Jésus était invulnérable, mais il a été blessé.

Uppståndelse is a Swedish word with two fairly distinct meanings both related to standing up.

It means, in the context here, a standing up of someone who was dead, i e a resurrection.

It also means when a lot of seated people hurry to stand up, which is a social excitation (not a mental solitary one), and is in certain political terms related to insurrection, however, the Swedish word does not get that far, it is a synonym for tumult, where English prefer the term commotion.

The actual Swedish word is a calque midway between resurrection and insurrection. Resurrection literally means "to stand up again", i e after lying down as a corpse. Insurrection literally means "to stand up on something", i e on a barricade (or simply on the floor on occasions where being seated is expected). Uppståndelse literally means "to stand up", and therefore only translates the part "surrectio" in the Latin base word. Hence, it translates both words into Swedish.

Now, instead of translating "efter uppståndelsen" with "after the Resurrection", the autotranslate has translated as "after the commotion".

In a way there is a kind of prophecy there, since the Descent into Hell or into Sheol and the ensuing Resurrection did involve quite a lot of commotion, joy for the souls who had been captive due to original sin, terror for the demons who were clearly "losing the grip" when these souls could no longer be confined in darkness. But for someone who didn't know Swedish, the translation is not immediately informative. If we don't believe the mistranslation (i e : if we don't trust this autotranslate) those of us who don't know Swedish but only French would be somewhat led astray if they didn't know Christian theology at least as much as main outline of Gospel story beforehand.

Le bon mot c'est "la Résurrection", pas "l'excitation".

This is not all.

  • "... var Jesus kropp förvandlad," means "Jesus' body was transformed," (i e already from that moment of Resurrection, and so all the time after it)

    • "... le corps de Jésus s'est transformé" means "Jesus' body transformed itself/changed" (i e after that moment, with some delay and development)

    • better : "était transformé".

  • "Han kunde gå genom reglade dörrar," means "he was" [in fact] "able to walk through locked doors".

    • "Il pourrait traverser les portes fermées," means "he would be able to walk through locked doors" [if and additional condition had been fulfilled.]

    • better : "il pouvait" etc.

  • Skipping minor quibbles on tense useage.

  • "Hans kropp kunde inte åldras eller skadas," means "His body could not age or be hurt."

    • "Son corps ne peut pas devenir vieux ou endommagé," means "His body cannot become old or damaged" - tense change is better theology, less good narrative, but chronologically speaking the Body of Christ is in fact 2017 years old this year, my friend's friend is speaking of the aging process, which stopped, He is anatomically 33, and it is not a piece of furniture where we speak of "damage", it is a living body where, prior to the resurrection, we speak of getting "hurt" or "wounded".

    • better : "Son corps ne pouvait pas vieillir ou être blessé".

  • "Jesus var osårbar, ändå bar han sår," means "Jesus was invulnerable, yet he bore wounds". He was invulnerable from Resurrection on, and bore wounds from before it.

    • "Jésus était invulnérable, mais il a été blessé," means "Jesus was invulnerable, but he has been wounded" - as if it was a question of an invulnerability not quite working.

    • better : "Jésus était invulnérable, mais il portait ses blessures".

If a human translator had come up with this, I would have noted him "peut mieux faire". But a computer can't do any better. It has no understanding of meaning.

The words are translated by algorithms, and the more common use of "uppståndelsen" is "the commotion", so the computer translates, mechanically, the word with "l'excitation" even when "the commotion" was not not what the human writer meant. The computer cannot translate after probable meaning, since it has no idea at all about meaning.

One could program it to make an exception when Jesus is in the same sentence, but suppose a Swede were to say:

"När Jesus talade var uppståndelsen ofta stor bland fariseerna"

He would be, for Swedish, making a pun on the resurrection, but the accurate meaning of the words would be:

"When Jesus spoken the commotion was often great among the Pharisees".

And a computer programmed to translate "uppståndelsen" with "la Résurrection" each time Jesus occurred in the same sentence would now be getting this sentence wrong instead. AI is a myth, a misunderstanding of what computers do. It is not around the corner, it is a metaphysical impossibility.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St. Peter Canisius, S.J.

Monday, April 24, 2017

Writing Advice, Quora

How can I start writing a book, step-by-step?

C on Q
Hi all,

I’d like to write a book. But I don’t know which point should I start. How can I make an outline to see which step should be done first, which step should be done next, and last? So that the book is not messy and cover all things that link to each other.

Feel free to recommend more tips!


Hans-Georg Lundahl
Writing? I've been doing that for some time.
Written just now
Quoting from Brian Dean:

“I try to know maybe ten events in the story before I write. That is, I know ten stops or locations on the path of the story. This means that when I start at the beginning and get stuck, I jump forward to the next known point and start writing there. Usually it doesn’t take long until I know what should go in that gap between sections.”

While I was more active on writing Chronicle of Susan Pevensie, I started out knowing four events, and wrote four chapters.

I then proceeded, naturally, not to write at the beginning and forward, but systematically filling in between sections.

Only sometimes writing forwards.

Sunday, April 23, 2017

What Exactly did Job Realise?

According to Lita Cosner, God reminded Job of His prerogatives as Creator. And Job accepted this.

According to Peter Kreeft, at the end of the book, Job knew God, and he knew himself.

I will give a somewhat other perspective.

I will not look at the text, I will not look at the Church Fathers, I will just hope I am right. And, that if I am wrong, God will correct me gently enough.

There is a moment at which Job seems to say (as Peter Kreeft cited him), he had spoken as an empty headed man. What exactly had he said that was wrong?

I think it is this : he had not had a heartfelt and complete trust in God. Sure, he had said, when challenged, "of course God can be trusted" (I know my Redeemer liveth, in the text). But that was it. He wasn't brimfull of trust.

Let's get to a few situations in the New Testament. Martha says "if you had come earlier, Lazarus would have lived". Fine? Wonderful trust isn't it? She is admitting there was a time when Jesus could even have been of some assistance, right? As Peter Kreeft reminds us, Our Lord wanted more trust than that./HGL

Wednesday, April 5, 2017

A Work by Mark Twain I Think Tolkien did Read

We know (from Tree and Leaf, I think, On Fairy Stories), that Tolkien loved Fenimore Cooper. And that from a rather early age.

We also know that when writing The Lord of the Rings, he was keeping meticulously track of things especially related to the progress in much of the time wild nature (how many miles men can walk a day, which phase of the moon it was which date, seasons, latitudes changing the impact of the seasons, so that spring and summer is earlier in South Ithilian than in Rohan ...).

Is there a connection?

Perhaps, if we knew Fenimore Cooper had done a similar thing, we could conclude that he was imitating his favourite author (I used an Italy related weather report for 28th Dec 2011 to account for the weather when Susan was in Narni on that date, supposedly 1949, and you can imagine where I got that from).

Now, it seems there is another author who claims that Fenimore Cooper did not do these things. His name is Mark Twain. It seems, then, that Tolkien in fact had read Mark Twain: Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences, which I am just now reading* - one which alerted him to what to avoid in order to not share Fenimore Cooper's mistakes.

However**, Mark Twain has his own inaccuracies.

Chicago is not a simplified spelling of Chingachgook:

The name "Chicago" is derived from a French rendering of the Native American word shikaakwa, known to botanists as Allium tricoccum, from the Miami-Illinois language. The first known reference to the site of the current city of Chicago as "Checagou" was by Robert de LaSalle around 1679 in a memoir.[18] Henri Joutel, in his journal of 1688, noted that the wild garlic, called "chicagoua", grew abundantly in the area.[19] According to his diary of late September 1687:

when we arrived at the said place called Chicagou which, according to what we were able to learn of it, has taken this name because of the quantity of garlic which grows in the forests in this region.[19]

In the mid-18th century, the area was inhabited by a Native American tribe known as the Potawatomi, who had taken the place of the Miami and Sauk and Fox peoples.[20] The first known non-indigenous permanent settler in Chicago was Jean Baptiste Point du Sable. Du Sable was of African and French descent and arrived in the 1780s.[21][22][23] He is commonly known as the "Founder of Chicago".

And while a cannon ball which doesn't burrow itself down into the ground will at first bounce, it is possible the last bounce will set it rolling in such a way as Mark Twain claims Fenimore Cooper was wrong to suppose in one of his romances. Also, Mark Twain is erroneously applying canons of novel writing to the romance genre.***

That said, the general gist of Mark Twain's words on these pages is such that it can have inspired Tolkien to greater caution in what is now often known as "world building".

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Wednesday in First Passion Week

* For page 1 of free online version: or

For buying a copy in paper and paid version:

Amazon: 11 results for Books : "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences Mark Twain"

** Someone is bound, sooner or later, to call me Hibbs! See Manalive, a book by Chesterton and a film I would wish for Mark Shea and others to release at least on youtube, if not in paid theatres. Maybe a bit like amateurs did with Born of Hope.

*** When Mark Twain upbraids Fenimore Cooper for being unprecise when using "unsophisticated," for "primitive" he was not noting that this sense of "primitive" was a recent one, depending on Evolutionist assumptions. Next item, "preparation," for "expectancy", he does not note that expectancy is a kind of mental preparedness which may have been as much "preparation" in Cooper's day as "mental preparedness" in ours. And if Cooper did use "fact," for "conjecture", well, very many Evolutionists are doing so to this very day. But generally, don't trust Mark Twain on non-contemporary matters. A man who can complain of "mental imbecility," for "imbecility" without noting that an earlier generation than his own may have called it a corporeal imbecility to have a cold, is a man capable of the gross historic inaccuracies of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and I don't mean introducing the time traveller, I mean how King Arthur's Court is supposed to have been up to his arrival.

Cuvier's Analogy and Renaissance Humanism

Creation vs. Evolution : Protestant Roots of Old Age / Evolution · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Cuvier's Analogy and Renaissance Humanism

I just learned about Cuvier's Analogy in a CMI Article on this topic. In fact, with this title:

CMI : Cuvier’s analogy and its consequences: forensics vs testimony as historical evidence
John Reed

While it was posted on the site in 2012, it was previously published in Journal of Creation 22(3):115–120, December 2008.

Here is a salient little quote:

That shift did not just happen. It was sold to the public by a perceived necessity to investigate the prehuman world of deep time. Obviously, if no one was present to record those epochs, a forensic approach was the only possible key to the past. If that door was opened only by ‘scientific’ evidence, the Bible was irrelevant. This line of reasoning created a crack in the walls of the biblical worldview that opened a breach to the rampaging secular hordes that captured the Western intellectual tradition in the 19th century and destroyed it in the 20th.

In order to understand this methodological flaw, we must first see the logical link between prehistory and forensic evidence. That point was emphasized by the analogy made by Georges Cuvier (1769–1832) between fossils and human artifacts of antiquity. Cuvier argued that fossils opened the door to prehuman history just as ancient coins and pottery opened the door to older human history. This clever metaphor helped elevate forensic natural history at the expense of the Bible.

Actually, there is a precedent for Cuvier. One Lorenzo Valla started collecting ancient Roman and Greek artefacts to piece together as exact an image of Classic Antiquities as possible.

But the point is, this did not really open the door to older human history. Rather, it shut it.

In the Middle Ages, you had books about the War of Troy. They would include authorities like Dictys of Crete or Dares of Phrygia, poets in Homeric style on the Trojan side, which claim in the text to be contemporary but which are by Higher Criticism considered to be Alexandrian in origin.

In Valla's remold of Antiquity studies, this did not fit in. It was some four centuries between the Catholic priest and Heinrich Schliemann who dug out Troy. Whether or not Valla himself did or did not believe the War of Troy happened, some of his successors did not. Valla had initiated a scepsis which dispensed with witness account if it had been passed through sufficient number of intermediates in favour of material pieces of evidence.

This approach erroneously involved doubting Troy had even existed as early as the Iliad is supposed to speak about. In fact, you have to have a very steep rise in Carbon 14 very late for the ruins of Hissarlik not to include at least some layer which fits the time scale of the traditional War of Troy.

Creation vs. Evolution : What about Ussher and Kent Hovind? Checking with Troy

A seventeen step Fibonacci curve adapted even to Ussher's timeline will allow Troy to have been at least inhabited at the time.

Creation vs. Evolution : Around Five Thousand Years Ago, There was a World Wide Flood?

Adapting it to St Jerome's timeline puts real time timing of War of Troy into Troy V.

Creation vs. Evolution : About 5300 Years Ago There was a World Wide Flood? Iffy ...

And yes, Syncellus placing taking of Troy in 1172 will put it into a carbon rise table adapted to his overall timeline between the carbon dates (Cambridge half life) for 1500 BC and 1227 BC and closer to the first. In 1500 BC, Troy was already inhabited, carbon date wise.

So, we can accept Schliemann discovered the site where the War of Troy took place.

This means we can accept Iliad as a kind of testimony. However, it is not first hand eywitness testimony. It is testimony from tradition - precisely as the Genesis material was to Moses.

Some Protestants are reluctant to accept that Moses relied on Oral tradition, he must have found Written material books from back in the times of Adam or Noah or Abraham, and evidence is he credits the works. And how does he do it? By the "toledoth" type colophons.

However, this is eisegesis. The usual interpretation of the toledoth phrase is that they far from closing a book introduce sth shorter, namely a list of generations. That is why the words ... This is the book of the generation of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him to the likeness of God. ... are Genesis 5:1 and not **Genesis 4:27 (non-extant verse). Note, I am not dismissing all eisegesis as bad or unfounded, just noting that this theory is both eisegesis and far newer than the time of Cuvier. And it could be wrong.

So, we can believe it is quite as possible that Adam and Eve redacted the second, third and beginning of fourth chapter of Genesis as oral performances, perhaps if writing was invented using initial letters as training aid, and handed these down to their descendants, and they arrived orally to Moses.

But this puts Moses as final redactor in a position analogous to Homer, whose distance from Trojan War was about as many centuries as Moses at Exodus from promise given to Abraham. In fact, between Adam's fall and Moses, the distance in time was greater (though that in generations was smaller) between Odin's arrival in Uppsala region (some say Uppsala itself was founded by his stepson Frey, so it couldn't have been there when he came if so) and Snorre.

This means that the criterium which was, if not exactly Lorenzo Valla's at least the one he helped to bring about, through the remote disciples of his remote disciples by the time of Cuvier and well a generation or two before him at least, is a criterium which humanly speaking tends to destroy the authority of Moses. In such a position, some will take the position "Genesis is in the Bible, hence it is word of God, hence God's verbal inspiration will have taken care of any errors which would normally certainly have turned up". Some will take the opposite position "Genesis is the word of God because Moses was a man of God, so while we can rely on Moses' intentions as being God's, we can't rely on his information". And that was the position obviously of Cuvier.

Now, who of Protestants and Catholics would normally have been going the furthest along this road by the time of Cuvier? Obviously Protestants.

A Catholic, even if he had tended to side with Wolf in making existence of Homer doubtful, and had tended to deny the War of Troy (unlike St Augustine whose De Civitate basically opens with "look, the Pagan gods were not much use to the Trojans, as we know from the Aeneid"), would at least have agreed on St Augustine that there always was a Church or People of God, from Adam to Moses too, and that its transmission of early material was guaranteed by infallibility of the Church, like the Jewish Church had from Aaron to Kaiaphas, like the Catholic Church has had from Pentecost to the Present. So they could say Genesis 1 to 11, while transmitted in a naturally not too reliable matter, was protected, like the full doctrines of the Mass or of Mary have been protected in the Catholic Church, though not all details are directly attested in the Bible in its literal sense. Something which the transmission between Trojan War and Homer would have lacked.

But Protestants would not be believing in the special protection of that particular tradition or paradosis which belongs to the Church of God, therefore they would also tend to have less confidence in Genesis 1 to 11. Which Cuvier had.

Even more, there is a correlation between the Renaissance Humanism of Valla and Protestantism. When Calvin accused Catholics of worshipping "Venus and Bacchus" (honouring the Blessed Virgin, blessing grapes on day of Transfiguration, August 6th, I presume), he was bypassing factors like narrative what Pagan Romans said about Venus and Bacchus and what Catholics said about honouring the Blessed Virgin and blessing grapes on August 6th. He was looking at, as if all important, the general shape or procedure of statues and of ceremonies. Like he had been taught by successors of Lorenzo Valla.

While Luther had less of that kind of learning (his Humanism was more about accurate Greek and Latin, and even some Church Fathers like Sts Ausgustine and Jerome - Erasmus was using Terence and Jerome as models of Latin, in the sense that I have used C. S. Lewis, J. R. R. Tolkien, King James and Shakespear as models for my English, while learning it), his disciple Philip Melanchthon must have picked up some and his disciples must have picked up even more. By the time of Cuvier, this kind of thing would have been as commonplace among Lutherans of Montbéliard (theretofore Mömpelgard) as it was among Zwinglians in Zurich or Calvinists in Geneva or Edinburgh.

So, it is really not a big problem to reason out why Deep Time and the archaeological error about both history and ultimately even "pre-human earth history" should have come from Modernist Protestants rather than from Catholics.

And that is why, when I was defending a Young Earth Creationist understanding of both Genesis and Earth Sciences was getting more and more away from Protestantism and more and more into Catholicism - which I had never been strongly against anyway. Funny why John Reed never mentions that Cuvier was a Protestant in the article ... did I just miss it?

And for similar reasons of revived Ciceronianism and divorce from the Catholic dogma, Protestants were also more likely to be racist. In Antiquity, Egyptians had been anti-black racialists pretty much of the time (to the point that to one Monastic Father the devil appeared in the shape of a black boy - not meaning that black boys are diabolical, just that to his culture, the black boy was a sufficiently suspicious symbol so he could be detected, like God requires the devil to do when tempting His Saints). Egyptians had also been famous for being wise, profound, knowledgeable. Among the neo-Ciceronians of the 15th and 16th Centuries, this could spill over into accepting the Pagan Egyptians's assessment of black men - and looking for Biblical justifications, however flimsy, as long as the Bible at least was still an authority. And Protestantism took over much more of this Humanism and its divorce from the Christian tradition.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Wednesday in
First Passion Week

Tuesday, April 4, 2017

For Fans of Michael Ende and Old Photography

I was not just a fan of Michael Ende's The Neverending Storeeeeeeeeee (sorry, that is the film), I also saw the film The Neverending Story (well, that would be the book, actually).

So, naturally, on a site dedicated to film paraphernalia, I looked up what the stars from the film look like today.

Here is what I found. Bastian Balthasar Bux, a geek in the book and in the film, was played by a real life geek.

Barret Oliver - Bastian Balthazar Bux

This man wrote a history of the Woodbury type - a process for reproducing photos, invented in the 19th Century.

A History of the Woodburytype 1st Edition
by Barret Oliver (Author), Cathie Leavitt (Editor)

Citing from a review of his book:

In 1864 Walter Bentley Woodbury introduced a process for mechanically reproducing photographs that changed forever the way the world looked at images. Aesthetically beautiful, permanent and infinitely reproducible, the Woodburytype was the first process used extensively to photographically illustrate books, journals, museum catalogs, magazines and even campaign materials. More than a century after its heyday the Woodburytype stands as a pinnacle of photographic achievement. This book traces the history of Woodbury's process from the early technology and experiments to its commercial success and domination of the illustration field, and further to attempts to adapt it to industrialized methods, and finally, to its eventual disuse. Also covered is the story of how Woodbury overcame daunting personal odds to bestow this beautiful photographic process upon the world.


PS, I also learned he has made a film on how this was done:

In the Usual Manner
A short film featuring artist Barret Oliver

PPS, RIP, "Carl Conrad Coreander"! RIP, "Cairon". RIP, "Engywook". RIP, "Urgl". DEDRELELERIP.

What is lectio continua?

50 + 40 + 27 + 36 + 34 + 24 + 21 + 04 + 31 + 24 + 22 + 25 + 29 + 36 + 10 + 13 + 14 + 16 + 16 + 42 + 150 + 31 + 12 + 08 + 19 + 51 + 66 + 52 + 05 + 06 + 48 + 14 + 14 + 03 + 09 + 01 + 04 + 07 + 03 + 03 + 03 + 02 + 14 + 04 + 16 + 15 = 1074

28 + 16 + 24 + 21 + 28 + 16 + 16 + 13 + 06 + 06 + 04 + 04 + 05 + 03 + 06 + 04 + 03 + 01 + 13 + 05 + 05 + 03 + 05 + 01 + 01 + 01 + 22 = 260


1334 in toto - 3 years, after which, if without leap years in these remain 239 chapters, of which 29 are read in February

You start on January 1 one year, you go on for three years, and in the fourth you end up on August 26th./HGL

Monday, April 3, 2017

Link on History of Medicine

AncientBiotics - a medieval remedy for modern day superbugs?
University of Nottingham, 30 Mar 2015

I Failed J P Holding's Test - But Let's Look at his Criteria

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : With jpholding/tektontv on Inerrancy · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : I Failed J P Holding's Test - But Let's Look at his Criteria · Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : Notification to Mike Licona (not answered)

The TektonTV Christian Religious Knowledge Test

I am here not commenting on intro, which is fairly basic.

TektonTV / JPHolding made an own test for religious knowledge, here I am taking the quiz.

  • 1) In rhetoric the portion of an argument in which a writer like Paul provides examples of what he wants to prove is called:

    • a) peroratio
    • b) probatio
    • c) refutatio
    • d) exordio

    There is no such thing as is "called an exordio", since "is called" requires nominative and nominative of the word is exordium. a and d are probably the least likely place to see a list of examples, unless very reduced to simple namecalling - or if the speech (or epistle or whatever) is not very example based, it just possibly couldn't be there at all, as normally. Exordium is beginning of a speech or epistle, peroratio is ending. In exordium (in Latin : in exordio!) you usually want to just catch the hearers' or readers' goodwill. And in peroratio (in peroratione in Latin) you mostly want to drive through the main point with some emotional colouring, possibly highstrung. I recall a speech by Lysias and how the Greek Lector raised his voice at the final words, of which I still recall the "dikazete!" - "get on judging". An exordium can be high strung too. "Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? (...?) quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia?" - "Hey, what do you think you are up to, punk!" (translated to JPHolding's vocabulary).*

    So, omitting the option which was omitted here, namely narratio - a kind of story telling intro to the main point, as JPHolding did with a narrative, but which can take the form of an inductio (a list of examples), the second most likely place to find lists of examples (or first?) would be either probatio, in which after stating the main point the speaker gives supporting evidence to the point of positively proving it beyond reasonable doubt if possible, or, refutatio, where he is doing the inverse about the inverse point.

    Giving full weight to the words "of what he wants to prove" this would narrow the possibility away from refutatio and down to probatio.

  • 2) The Arian Heresy claims that Jesus:

    • a) had one rather than two natures
    • b) was a white man, not a Jew
    • c) was a created being
    • d) is the same person as the Father.

    Let's discuss each:

    • a) had one rather than two natures - nope : purely human would be ultra-arian, not arian. More Moslem than nearly Christian heresy. Purely divine would be either Docetist or Monophysite. A non-Arian couple of heresies.

    • b) was a white man, not a Jew - nope, you think of Aryan, with an y, an idea espoused by Deutsche Christen. In the form that Jews in His time were more "white" or "Aryan" than now, it is not even necessarily heretical.

    • c) was a created being - this would be the one.

      But misstated - it says He is a created being and therefore a created person. Christianity admits He is since about 2017 years ago a created being also - but remaining an uncreated person.

    • d) is the same person as the Father. Nope. This is an earlier and opposite heresy, called Patripassianism. Modalism. Also known - had to look it up for a reminder, in wiki - Sabellianism.

  • 3) - Wrote a hand book of rhetoric. None of the following if you really meant your spelling.

    Otherwise, Quintilian, one L, is perhaps what 3 b is meant to allude to. De .... oratorica, forgot the noun. De praeparatione oratorica? Hmmm ... could check it in wiki. Institutio Oratoria - honestly did not check before picking the answer.

    Actually, I am not sure of Lucanus and Lysanias, but if they did, their works are clearly inferior in impact to Quintilian's work, which Erasmus was looking back to when he wrote Opus de Conscribendis Epistolis.

  • 4) - I really and truly do not know enough Egyptian mythology to know which of the given gods is considered a hypostasis if any, but if so, it is in another than the Christian sense.

    Ma'at could be considered a personification, since she means a human quality.** I did not know there were people who said hypostasis instead of personification, if that is "who" you meant.

    And perhaps Osiris could be considered an Avatar of Ra, but also did not know avatars were called by some hypostaseis.

    So, beyond all guesswork, I don't know.

  • 5) Which of these is classically associated with the thesis that Peter and Paul represented an early split in Christianity?

    Ruling out a) David Strauss and d) David Hume and narrowing down to either b) Baur (best known for Leben Jesu, a "demythologised" version of the Gospels) or c) Bultmann, illfamed for his participation in Higher Criticism (and duly denounced for that by C. S. Lewis in Fernseed and Elephants).

  • 6)

    I Philo died AD 37 and II Josephus was born that year, while III (or IV?) Tacitus was born later. I don't know when Cassius Dio was born, but I think he was even later than Tacitus.

  • 7) Death penalty reserved to citizens : a&b - beheading by sword.

    Since St Paul was a Roman Citizen, he was beheaded on one June 29, under Nero, same day as St Peter was crucified upside down.

    [That is, St Peter was not a Roman Citizen.]

  • 8) Theodosius made Christianity the State religion, outlawing Paganism and confirming how Judaism got secondary status by Constantine.

    Constantine had not made Christianity the State religion in this sense, but made it legal religion, but also leaving pagan official cults legal. It was Theodosius who erased the Pagan temples and said "if you want to go on praying to Venus and Bachus and Mars and that rabble, do so at home".

  • 9) In my view the leading writers on Christian Pacifism are Chesterton and C. S. Lewis - they rejected Pacifism and rejected its title to being Christian.

    If you want to know who is the leading misleading writer on it, arguing for it, I really can't tell between the four, that is not my Christian culture!

  • 10) I knew beforehand book of Job WAS ANE dialogue literature, so guessed first that The Man Who Was Tired of His Life could be a modern novel. Nope, on wiki it seems it is a dialogue between a man and his ba, Egyptian religious sense, one of the souls.

    I don't know.

  • 11) I really don't know what the difference between orthodox and heterodox preterism is.

    COULD BE authority of Apocalypse (an orthodox preterist admitting its inerrancy despite the difficulties in reading), could be timing of the final resurrection (but that is rather the difference between millennialism and amillennialism), could be nature of the parousia ... could not be the person of Jesus, since even a heterodox preterist would be a Christian and therefore have Christian views on the matter.

  • 12) I don't know who authored the "premier study" on the word "soma", I know Bultmann was early, but not how early the other ones are.

    [Nor do I know if Bultmann made any kind of study on that word.]

  • 13) I presume Biblical codices were used before the codex iuris civilis and contributed to them, unless it was liturgic books that did so.

    A codex is a book you turn pages in, as opposed to a volumen which you scroll down and up while reading, rolling out from around one and in around another pin. (Torah scrolls however roll sideways).

  • 14) Sejanus [Was the benefactor of Pontius Pilate]. He was still in favour with Tiberius in AD 30, when Velleius Paterculus wrote book II of Roman History.

  • 15) I had no idea there were any Greek words in the book of Daniel.

Checking my score:

Test Answers
Tuesday, May 15, 2012, on Tekton Forge

1) b) probatio - got it I
2) c) Jesus was a created being - got it II
3) b) Quintillian, - got it III
4) a) Ma’at - gave it a one of two
5) b) F. C. Baur - gave it a one of two
6) Philo, Josephus, Tacitus, Cassius Dio - got it except being unsure of placing of Cassius Dio IV
7) b) beheading - which was by the sword, so got it V
8) d) Theodosius - got it VI
9) b) John Yoder - I had no idea
10) d) The Wise Man, the Artisan, and the Slave - did not know
11) b) the timing of the resurrection - ok, was not sure
12) a) Robert Gundry - I had no idea
13) c) codex - I got it VII
14) d) Sejanus - I got it VIII
15) b) musical instruments - I might have thought of it ....salpinx? kithara?

So, score 8 out of 15.

If generous, 10 of 15, if you add the one out of two.

If severe, 6 out of 15, if you take away the got it when it was twice qualified.

Certainly not 12 out of 15.

My turn.

Classic languages and literary devices would certainly be useful knowledge for assessing what anything in NT refers to, if unclear.

Church history also. Whether difference between diverse heresies or what Emperor made Christianity a state religion.

Dito for simple Classical history and literary history, as with Philo, Josephus, Tacitus, Cassius Dio.

Knowing Egyptian mythology might be useful if dealing with claims about Christianity borrowing from Egyptian religion (it is arguably easier to see ANE Paganism traced in Odinism than in Christianity, and I am, as most Swedes, knowledgeable on that topic).

But it is clearly less of a core issue.

Knowing exactly what academic high brow came up with exactly what kooky idea about early Church history is an asset, but I think it is sufficient to be able to state why they are wrong. No matter how much they may have contributed to studying a word like "soma".

Knowing what orthodox preterism is might be more interesting if you are very much into preterism. I am more into "through Church history" so that at the time of the final tribulation little is left to be fulfilled ... words of St Caesarius of Arles.

Knowing about Christian pacifism is perhaps more interesting if you are a Christian pacifism - as I said I am not and reject the concept. Avoiding wars if possible is a great thing - but not at any and every cost. Saying those who do war or self defense or executions of legally condemned criminals are sinners is another matter. As the doctrine is one I reject, its authors are less interesting to me.

And presence of Greek words in book of Daniel is supposed to prove exactly what? That book of Daniel was written after Persians had had their first contact with Greeks? Sure, but not sure how that could change anything unless you know from other sources when that was. Even if all other sources are later, which testify Greeks and Persians had contact, book of Daniel would simply be the earliest source testifying to such contact.

Or, perhaps that point is, it proves Daniel had been in Persia and not just Babylon?

Or, is Ma'at being a "hypostasis" relevant to Trinitarian and Christological quarrels of councils?

Let's check, if hypostasis was the Greek word for personificatio, and if council decisions had been only in Greek, perhaps so.

But in reality we have perhaps three meanings with two different words in each language of Latin and Greece.

  • υποςασις (if so?) - personificatio***
  • υποςασις - persona
  • προσωπον - persona

The use of υποςασιςin Greek rules out the meaning of persona=προσωπον and the use of persona in Latin rules out υποςασις=personificatio.

We are not dealing either with Trinitarian persons or Incarnation being allegories for human states of mind, as in personificatio and we are also not dealing with them being masks or roles that a single υποςασις takes on as προσωπα. We are dealing with υποςασις or persona as single instances of a thing which can think and chose, know and love. There are three instances of that thing, but unlike men, where three instances of man are three different men, in God its three instances of the very same God.

Introducing υποςασις as other meaning personificatio (if that was an Ancient Greek meaning) could only be a blunder a very minor side issue to the debates.

So, if we divide my score into what I think relevant or less so or not at all, where I know in advance J. P. Holding disagrees, here is my division of the test:

  • Relevant classical/ancient : 8 out of 9

    • 1) b) probatio - got it I, 1
    • 2) c) Jesus was a created being - got it II, 2
    • 3) b) Quintilian, - got it III, 3
    • 6) Philo, Josephus, Tacitus, Cassius Dio - got it except being unsure of placing of Cassius Dio IV, 4
    • 7) b) beheading - which was by the sword, so got it V, 5
    • 8) d) Theodosius - got it VI, 6
    • 10) d) The Wise Man, the Artisan, and the Slave - did not know, 7
    • 13) c) codex - I got it VII, 8
    • 14) d) Sejanus - I got it VIII, 9

  • Less relevant ancient knowledge 1/2 out of 2

    • 4) a) Ma’at - gave it a one of two, 1
    • 15) b) musical instruments - I might have thought of it ....salpinx? kithara?, 2

  • Irrelevant modern knowledge 1/2 out of 4

    • 5) b) F. C. Baur - gave it a one of two, 1
    • 9) b) John Yoder - I had no idea, 2
    • 11) b) the timing of the resurrection - ok, was not sure, 3
    • 12) a) Robert Gundry - I had no idea, 4

You see, doing a real good job in relevant knowledge and doing a particular set of studies to acquire that relevant knowledge are two different things.

If J. P Holding means I have not done the same studies as he, he is right. And he has not done the same studies as I, either.° If from there he wants to conclude I am not qualified to discuss what I am discussing, that is an opinion which is fairly self serving with one who has been critical of him. Note, on very many issues he is even excellent. If I weren't sometimes obliged to recommend tektontv, as a fellow apologist, I would feel no relevance in criticising him either.

But even if he were to consider me as "not qualified", he could not call me an academic fraud°° : by discussing sth on internet you are not automatically claiming to have a certain background. Also, I don't like the general idea of dividing opponents into "incompetent"/"academic frauds" and "worthwhile". Someone who is real stoooopid as a ... well, I'm omitting comparisons ... will be worthwhile responding to if there are others sharing his stupidity.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Monday after
I:st Passion Sunday

* A more literal rendering is "whereunto, O Catilina, wilt thou yet abuse our patience, (...?) to what end will thy unleashed audacity vaunt itself" (not sure if the phrases are consecutive or I left sth out, check for yourselves in Cicero's III Speech against Catilina). ** A quality, which, though human, is not lacking in God! Measure! *** If hypostasis basically means persona, Greek terminology is terse enough for the word to be used for personificatio too - but I don't claim to know it is so used. ° "exordio" in nominative, "Quintillian" with double L = > NOT a Latinist. °° Actually, the test was made for atheists.

Tuesday, March 21, 2017

Prehistory of France

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : ... on Genevieve von Petzinger's 32 late palaeolithic signs · ... on Genevieve von Petzinger's view on human religion and symbolic behaviour · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Prehistory of France

Prehistoric and Iron Age France - all dates are BC

I am presuming that all dates are carbon dated in some fashion, since my reduced chronology table is specific to carbon dating.

Dates from timeline vastly earlier than 40,000 BC are not carbon dated and therefore do not reduce in the same manner, which is why their reduction to a Biblical chronology is a separate problem, not treated here, probably not much by me.

However, as to foundings of Massilia and Antibes, I think I might take these as actually being historical dates?

Using the Biblical Timeline I see as most correct.

Around Five Thousand Years Ago, There was a World Wide Flood?

Laufen interglacial. Arrival of first modern humans (Cro-Magnons) in Europe.
35,000 ?
Würm IIIa. Châtelperronian culture.

Recalibration levels
to Biblical according to St Jerome's timeline are marked by Roman Numerals.

I 2957 BC
2.142 pmc, + 31 800 years, 34757 BC

35,000 ?
Würm IIIa. Châtelperronian culture.
Mask of la Roche-Cotard, a Mousterian artefact.
Aurignacian culture.
First statuettes and engravings in France. Disappearance of Neanderthals.
Arcy interglacial.
Würm IIIb.
Paudorf interglacial.
Würm IIIc.
End of Würm glaciation.
Beginning of Solutrean culture.
Cold spell (Oldest Dryas).
Magdalenian culture.
Middle Magdalenian. Bølling Oscillation.
Cold spell (Older Dryas).

II 2803 BC
25.609 pmc, + 11 250 years, 14053 BC

Allerød Oscillation.
Upper Magdalenian.
Hamburg culture
Cold spell (Younger Dryas).

III 2650 BC
40.195 pmc, + 7550 years, 10200 BC

Beginning of Holocene.

and Oriental
Low feature in Göbekli Tepe
9559 BP, 7609 BC

IV 2496 BC
54.721 pmc, + 5000 years, 7496 BC

Domestication of the sheep.
Domestication of the dog.

and Oriental
High Feature in Göbekli Tepe
8430 BP, 6480 BC

V 2343 BC
63.751 pmc, + 3700 years, 6043 BC
VI 2189 BC
72.689 pmc, + 2650 years, 4839 BC

Appearance of Linear Pottery culture in France.
Oldest neolithic village in France, Courthézon in the Vaucluse.

VII 2036 BC
78.256 pmc, + 2050 years, 4086 BC

and Oriental
Ur of Woolley starts
a little before Birth of Abraham

Neolithic Chasséen culture village of Bercy.
Appearance of first megaliths in France.
Chasséen culture village of Saint-Michel du Touch near Toulouse.
Appearance of Rössen culture at Baume de Gonvilla in Haute-Saône.

and Oriental
Narmer's raw carbon date
before 3332, around Birth of Isaac

VIII 1882 BC
83.844 pmc, + 1450 years, 3332 BC

Expansion of Chasséen culture in the south of France, from the Lot to the Vaucluse.
Chasséen culture in Calvados.

IX 1728 BC
87.316 pmc, + 1100 years, 2828 BC

and Oriental
Date of Joseph
is close to a raw carbon date of Djoser

Chasséen culture in Pas-de-Calais.
End of Chasséen culture in Eure-et-Loir.
End of Chasséen culture in Saint-Mitre (in Reillanne, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence).

X 1575 BC
90.665 pmc, + 810 years, 2385 BC

and Oriental
Exodus (1510 BC)
would carbon date between 2385 and 2041, if we had a trace of it.

Village at Ponteau (in Martigues, Provence) of the Beaker culture.

XI 1421 BC
92.752 pmc, + 620 years, 2041 BC

Beginning of Bronze Age in France.

XII 1268 BC
94.992 pmc, + 430 years, 1698 BC

and Oriental
Trojan War Date 1190 BC
falls between 1114 and 1268 BC, which means the carbon date would be between 1424 and 1698 BC. Could we be dealing with Troy V?

XIII 1114 BC
96.376 pmc, + 310 years, 1424 BC

and Oriental
Both Troy dates (VIh and VIIa)
from Hisarlik fall between 961 BC and 1114 BC, since carbon dated between 1171 BC and 1424 BC.

XIV 961 BC
97.486 pmc, + 210 years, 1171 BC
XV 807 BC
98.188 pmc, + 150 years, 957 BC

Appearance in France, via the Rhine and the Moselle, and expanding into Champagne and Bourgogne of the Urnfield culture.
Beginning of Hallstatt culture.
680 (historic date?)
Founding of Antibes, the first Greek colony in France.

XVI 654 BC
99.298 pmc, + 60 years, 714 BC

680 (carbon date?)
Founding of Antibes, the first Greek colony in France.
Founding of Massalia (future Marseille) by the Greeks from the Ionian city of Phocaea[1].

100 pmc, no extra years, 500 BC

The Celts of la Tène appear in Champagne. They expand to the Garonne, forming what will come to be called the Gaul civilization.

As to the earliest Cro-Magnon at 40,000 BC, I take these to have been Pre-Flood men of same race as Noah's family. If Noah had sons who lived and died before those born when he was 500 years old, from which we descend, these sons of Noah could have been among the Neanderthals, another pre-Flood race, and for that matter among Homines Antecessores, also a Pre-Flood race, and Heidelbergenses. But these latter are not carbon dated, routinely, since presumed too old.

It can be thanks to them that Japheth could marry someone who was partly Neanderthal, if this conjecture of mine is correct. Since Neanderthals were if so Europeans before the Flood, Noah gave Europe to Japhethians as inheriting from their ancestors.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Benedict
and Tuseday after
III Lord's Day in Lent

Wednesday, March 15, 2017

Very Early Contact?

From: blog UROPI : Proto-Indeuropan (PIE), Uropi id moderni lingas - et les langues modernes -and modern languages

Yesterday or today can count as PI day (3.14 and 3.15 or 314:100 and 315:100 being limit values surrounding in two decimal precision the non-showable precise value of pi, however, 3.14 is the closer of the two).

Some linguist made a pun and made it PIE day ... as not in apple pie or mince meat pie but Proto-Indo-European ...

Now, there is one group which has never been seen as documented in writing or oral performance. Proto-Indo-European.

There are three of four or five groups which contributed to the theory which had very early contact : Italic (with Latin as well known example), Celtic (also marked close to Italic on diagram), Germanic (other branching, itself closer to Baltic and Slavic which are closer to each other than to it).

The fourth is Greek, which had later (but still early) contact with Italic.

The fifth is Indic (with Sanscrit).

So, four out of five main contributors to the theory of a single proto-language are more similar than they should be purely out of origin, due to early contact.

If Linear A turns out to be related to Indic or Iranian or both, that would be the fifth group of the original theory which had "very early contact".

And in the top branching of the diagram, closest to PIE, non attested, is Anatolian (attested with Nesili/Hittite, with Luwian and with a few more).

That is in the right position to have also had very early contact with ... the Italic and Greek early but not very early contact.

So, what if IE group is a Sprachbund?

Anatolian of some kind (Nesili or Luwian or Lydian etc) acting as a catalyst for Indo-Europeanisation, at least in some main features and the other in the "early contact" or "very early contact" contributing less important common or half common features?

This is a theory I have been brooding on, and so far I have had no refutation, except mostly that this is not the theory of the accepted expert linguists.

It was, I suppose, the theory of one, namely Trubetskoy, and even if this had not been the case, it would still be a valid theory if explaining things.

It has been met with two main objections:

  • existence of regular sound correspondences, as would be expected with a common background changing in different ways (Latin to Romance model of language development)
  • reluctance of languages to borrow base vocabulary and grammatical features.

And I have answers to both.

"existence of regular sound correspondences"

  • regularity is not absolute;

  • tentatives to make it so end up with a more and more contrived proto-language, which begins to sound like Klingon;

  • regularity may also result from "backformations" in the case of words taking the other route than the typical one : if I know that Swedish kona - dialectal for kvinna, related to Queen and to γυνη as well as to Celtic bean, fenyw/benyw - in Danish becomes "kone", and hear Danish "pige", girl, I might take the word and in Swedish change it to "piga" or even "pika" (Norwegian has pike). As it happens, Swedish has the word piga, and in a slightly different meaning, maidservant. Changing Danish -e to Swedish -a is a backformation, compared to the Danish change from -a to -e.

  • Regularity may also result from having a common text with dialectally different variations on the sound of letters, even possible with alphabetic script, and certainly possible with cuneiform and hieroglyphic syllabaries, since there the set values of a given glyph may change, especially if they don't look like devanagari, with consonant given and vowels other than short a added, but like early Aegean and Anatolian ones.

"reluctance of languages to borrow base vocabulary and grammatical features"

  • ignorant of Balkan linguistics, where at least favouring of certain and disappearance of other forms in abstract grammar grids are made by bilingual speakers' relations to other languages;

  • ignores that IE shares grammatical features with two neighbouring language families, Semitic and Fenno-Ugrian (Ablaut is a Semitic trait, endings for first and second persons are very clearly related in IE and in Finnish, the typologically rare double past, either imperfect or perfect, in IE, or in most IE, could be from Semitic tenses being more about perfective and imperfective, while Fenno-Ugrian is more about present versus past, Germanic shares the latter type with Fenno-Ugrian, and shares Grimm or part of it with Hungarian and Etruscan), the 8 case system is of complexity intermediate between Semitic 3 case and Fenno-Ugrian 15 case systems;

  • and of course also ignores the Tsiganic or Gypsy languages, the various languages known as Romani : caló is spoken with Spanish-Portuguese type grammar, tattar-Romani with Scandinavian grammar, "Shelta shares its main syntactic features with Hiberno-English and the majority of its morphological features such as -s plurals and past tense markers." (from article). The latter remark is true for Scandinavian Romani too, like noun plurals in -(V)r, like verb presents, all persons, -(V)r, like verb pasts in -(a/e)de and I think the same applies to Caló ... yes, and here is another similarity between Caló and Tattarspråk : "Many Caló terms have been borrowed in Spanish (especially as slangisms and colloquialisms), often through Flamenco lyrics and criminal jargon (germanía)." (Also from its article).

I have even played with the thought that the main catalyst for indo-europeanisation of included groups may have been a language used like Romani. If the common word for grain is not specific between wheat and barley and rye, while IE commonalities are specific about horses, it might be because wheat was not one usual article such a far range trading people usually trasnferred, but horses were their own thing.

Other languages affacted by theirs would also have become IE language groups, but retain their own words for relevant cereals.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Wednesday after
II Lord's Day in Lent

PS, I forgot the very obvious lacunae of IE commonalities in very common base vocabulary, hands, heads, colours, wheat and rye and so on are not commonalities, and neither is iron (iron, Eisen, jern is a Germanic commonality with Celtic Houarn, Haearn, Iarann, but not with Ferrum in Latin and Romance, unless Celtic were borrowed from a form of it changing f to h or zero, not with Geležis and Żelazo, not with Σίδηρος, and on Fenno-Ugrian side, Vas and Raud are unlike, the latter however borrowed perhaps from proto-Germanic or early Germanic, like proto-Nordic for red).

PPS, in Danish, I suppose "pige" is regular. If Norwegian "pike" is regular, the g in Swedish "piga" must be from a dialect of Danish or a dialect close to Danish. If the g in Swedish "piga" is regular, the k in Norwegian "pike" must be a backformation. Nw/Sw lök/løk Da løg. Da pige, Nw pike. The sound change has given rise to a sound correspondence and the sound correspondence contributes to words changing sound the other way, what linguists now call a backformation. Once it was simply called a sound correspondence.

Friday, March 10, 2017

What does it mean when a language is said to go extinct?

Wikipedia has a lot of categories of language extinction. By century or by millennium.

You are free to either recite the list solemnly or skim over it. I am not your classroom teacher, and I don't sit behind a camera checking you out. You do as you please.

  • "Languages extinct in the 21st century"

    Ruga language, Sambe language.

    And even some more, like a dialect of Lakotan.

  • "Languages extinct in the 20th century"

    A-Pucikwar language, Aka-Cari language, Aka-Kede language, Aka-Kol language, Akar-Bale language, Oko-Juwoi language, Asa language, Atakapa language, and Auregnais.

    Butler English.

    Cacaopera language, Catawba language, Chagatai language, Chicomuceltec language, Cochimí language, Cruzeño language, and Culle language.

    Damakawa language and Dzubukua.

    Sirenik Eskimo language.

    ǃGãǃne language.

    Ineseño language, Ingain language, and Island Chumash language.

    Jangil and Jersey Dutch.

    Kamakan language, Kamassian language, Kemi Sami language, Kilit dialect, Kipea language, and Kyakhta Russian–Chinese Pidgin.

    Lipan language.

    Marawan language, Miami-Illinois language, Miluk language, and Mpra language.

    Obispeño language.

    Piro Pueblo language, Portugis language, Purisimeño language, Sened language, Sensi language, and Slovincian language.

    Tepecano language, Tequiraca language, Tongva language, and Tsetsaut language.

    Ventureño language.

    Wanyi language.

    ǀXam language. I also so a note it had gone extinct in the 21:st century.

    Yaygir language, Yugh language, Yuki language, and Yuri language (of the Amazon river).

  • "Languages extinct in the 19th century"

    Abipón language (which was spoken by a people in South America, as I know from Karl May, without even looking at the article), Adai language, Assan language, and Awabakal language.

    Boro language (of Ghana) and Broken Slavey.

    Coroado Puri language.

    Esselen language.

    Jeikó language.

    Kott language.

    Massachusett language, Mator language, and Mediterranean Lingua Franca.

    Nauo language, Niuatoputapu language, and Nuenonne language.

    Paredarerme language, Peerapper language, Port Sorell language, and Purí language.


    Sandy River Valley Sign Language, Siraya language, Strand Frisian, and to continue on T: Taita Cushitic languages, Tommeginne language, and Toogee language.

    Vanji language.

    West Greenlandic Pidgin.

    Yokohama Pidgin Japanese and Yurats language.

    Note there was more than one auxiliary language which went extinct in the very century where Zamenhoff hoped to found one : Yokohama Pidgin Japanese, West Greenlandic Pidgin, Mediterranean Lingua Franca and possibly Broken Slavey too were all in use as auxiliary languages, helping communication, not by idealist clubs by people who generously renounce using English or French or Spanish or Russian or whatever suits, but by people who had no other language in common.

    This is not doubt due to the fact of bettered language education in many parts - where it is not the fact or a people losing its language, but in thesee three cases, the main factor would be Eskimos learning Danish better, Japanese learning English better, Maghrebin and other Mediterranean Orientals learning French better - in some cases because they had to.

    The same linguists who improved knowledge of well used languages also preserved memories of dying and dead ones, including the no longer needed auxiliary languages, of these three no doubt the Mediterranean Lingua Franca was the most venerable one. It had been in use since the Crusades.

  • "Languages extinct in the 18th century"

    Algonquian–Basque pidgin, Apalachee language, and Arin language.

    However, with Algonquian-Basque Pidgin, it is possible at least one of those using the help language, and probably at least the Basques of that region, lost theirs.

    Calusa language, Caranqui language, Carolina Algonquian language, Chané language, Ch’olti’ language, Chuvan language, and Cuman language.

    Eiderstedt Frisian.

    Kainuu Sami language.

    Labrador Inuit Pidgin French, Língua Geral of São Paulo, and Loup language.


    Old Prussian language and Omok language.

    Pericú language, Plateau Sign Language, Polabian language, Powhatan language, Pumpokol language, and Puquina language.

    Sissipahaw, Solano language, and Susquehannock language.

    Tawasa language and Timucua language.

    Waikuri language and Wursten Frisian.

    While Wursten Frisian may have died as long agao as Waikuri, it is still not as dead, because other dialects of Frisian live one.

  • "Languages extinct in the 17th century"

    Allentiac language and Andalusian Arabic.

    Basque–Icelandic pidgin. Which could have become extinct due to lessened trade between a now Protestant Iceland and Spain and France - or due to ... I checked : Icelanders must have become better at French and Spanish, since the mixture was between Basque and these two with some Dutch. It is possible non-Icelanders also used it, but the Icelanders were the only ones noting it down on papers preserved to us. It does not include Icelandic words, but an Icelandic translation.

    Cazcan language and Coptic language.

    Early Modern English, Egyptian language (which I already said, since Coptic and Egyptian are the same), Erie language, and Etchemin language.

    Guanche language.

    Middle Odia and Millcayac language.

    Narragansett language.

    Pidgin Delaware.

    Saukiog, Scahentoarrhonon and Sudovian language.

    Let's be precise, Sudovian is not a Slavonic language as you might imagine, it is a Baltic one, close to Old Prussian.

    Yao language (Trinidad)

  • "Languages extinct in the 16th century"

    Ciguayo language and Curonian language.

    Guanahatabey language.

    Laurentian language.

    Macorix language.

    Renaissance Latin !

    Taíno language and Tangut language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 15th century"

    Anglo-Norman language.

    Greenlandic Norse.

    Jassic dialect.

    Medieval Greek ! and Medieval Latin !

    Middle English and Middle Turkic languages.

  • "Languages extinct in the 14th century"


    Early Middle Odia.

    Old Norse and Old West Norse.

    Zarphatic language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 13th century"

    Daylami language.

    Old English.

    Pyu language (of Burma).

  • "Languages extinct in the 12th century"

    Old Odia and Pecheneg language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 11th century"

    Early West Saxon and Khwarezmian language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 10th century"

    Himyaritic language and Middle Indo-Aryan languages.

  • "Languages extinct in the 9th century"

    Tocharian languages and Old Irish.

  • "Languages extinct in the 8th century"

    Caucasian Albanian language.

    Old Tamil language.

    Proto-Norse language.

    Western Brittonic languages.

  • "Languages extinct in the 7th century"

    Arcadocypriot Greek.

    British Latin.

    Buyeo language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 6th century"

    Ancient Cappadocian language.

    Ancient Greek (sic!) and Late Latin (sic!)

  • "Languages extinct in the 5th century"

    Median language.

    Phoenician language or Punic language or, if two different things, both.

    Thracian language. To which we do not trace Albanian or Bulgarian or Romanian, even if we would like to.

  • "Languages extinct in the 4th century"

    Meroitic language and Mishnaic Hebrew.

  • "Languages extinct in the 3rd century"

    Aramaic of Hatra.

    Classical Latin (sic!)

    Old Aramaic language.

    Rhaetian language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 2nd century"

    Armazic language, but that is only one language not two or more languages.

  • "Languages extinct in the 1st century"

    Biblical Hebrew and Minaean language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 1st century BC"

    Doric Greek.

    Etruscan language.

    Ligurian language (ancient).

    Messapian language.

    Umbrian language, Venetic language and Vestinian language.

    Did I count U with V? Yes, back then it was the same letter!

  • "Languages extinct in the 3rd century BC"

    Aeolic Greek and Attic Greek.

    Carian language and Eteocretan language.

    Oh, more Greek, namely Ionic Greek.

    Late Biblical Hebrew.

    This is however a matter of definition, it means the last book we have in Hebrew is from this century if it is in the Bible - and if it is in Mishna, it counts as Mishnaic Hebrew instead of as Biblical, even late Biblical.

  • "Languages extinct in the 4th century BC"

    Ancient Macedonian language.

    It seems, Alexander the Great destroyed his own dialect as promptly as non-Koiné versions of Greek.

    Eteocypriot language and Sicani.

  • "Languages extinct in the 5th century BC"

    Ammonite language.

    Could also be the case for Moabite language, which is not noted by century but is in this millennium. The same is true of the Edomite language which like Ammonite and Moabite are very close to Hebrew.

    Camunic also destroyed (or at least disused) in the first millennium BC, but later. And it is not related to Hebrew, as far as we know. Its alphabet has similarities to runes, and was in use as late as 50 BC (within the lifetime of Odin).

  • "Languages extinct in the 6th century BC"

    Lemnian language.

    Archaic Biblical Hebrew and Standard Biblical Hebrew. But, as we know, other versions of Hebrew persisted some time.

  • "Languages extinct in the 8th century BC"


    For centuries, Akkadian was the native language in Mesopotamian nations such as Assyria and Babylonia. Because of the might of various Mesopotamian empires, such as the Akkadian Empire, Old Assyrian Empire, Babylonian Empire, and Middle Assyrian Empire, Akkadian became the lingua franca of much of the Ancient Near East. However, it began to decline during the Neo-Assyrian Empire around the 8th century BC, being marginalized by Aramaic during the reign of Tiglath-pileser III. By the Hellenistic period, the language was largely confined to scholars and priests working in temples in Assyria and Babylonia. The last known Akkadian cuneiform document dates from the 1st century AD.

  • "Languages extinct in the 9th century BC"

    Philistine language

  • "Languages extinct in the 11th century BC"

    Cypro-Minoan syllabary.

    Hurrian language.

  • "Languages extinct in the 12th century BC"

    Mycenaean Greek.

  • "Languages extinct in the 13th century BC"

    Hittite language

  • "Languages extinct in the 14th century BC"

    Palaic language

  • "Languages extinct in the 20th century BC"

    Old Egyptian language

  • "Languages extinct in the 2nd millennium BC"

    Amorite language.

    Hattic language.

    Minoan language.

    Sumerian language Note :

    Akkadian gradually replaced Sumerian as a spoken language around 2000 BC (the exact dating being a matter of debate),[5] but Sumerian continued to be used as a sacred, ceremonial, literary and scientific language in Mesopotamia until the 1st century AD.

  • "Languages extinct in the 3rd millennium BC"

    Elamite language.

And languages gone extinct prior to Elamite are not noted, because not attested before going extinct.

So, if Sumerian language went extinct in the second millennium BC, could Odin in the 1:st Century BC have known it? Or if Akkadian went extinct 8 centuries before he lived, could he have known it?

As a native speaker, raised in Sumerian or Akkadian from his cradle, or as speaking to native speakers, not so. Not any more than we could know Classical or Medieval Latin that way.

But he could have known Sumerian, like we can know Classical or nearly same thing Medieval Latin. As a language he had studied. Or Koiné, a k a Ancient Greek, a k a Medieval Greek, a k a Katharévousa, also known as not yet extinct.

So, when did Sumerian and Etruscan go extinct again? As native languages, second millennium BC and 1:st C AD. But as learned languages, in each case later.

I think it was in St Jerome's or St Augustine's time, or even St Gregory's that the last Haruspex tried to chant his chants in Etruscan and was laughed at.

But Etruscan went extinct as a native language and Akkadian and Sumerian as even learned languages, in 1:st Century. Because that was the Century of Christ? Because those were languages of idolatry.

Christ had the power to end idolatries of very relevant matter of disgust to the Hebrews. Because He was the true Christ. And remains so.


Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Ember Friday
of Lent

Wednesday, March 8, 2017

Archaeology from Flood to Abraham, Revisiting Earlier Articles.

Based on same table as previous:

Flood to Abraham, St Jerome A

Plus a few older archaeology articles of mine, to which I link at first occurrence.

A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Divje Babe bone flute (Turk & Dimkaroski 2011)
50,000 BP (pre-Flood)

The Flood 2957 BC
(St Jerome)
1.636 %, + 34 000 years, 36 957 BC

A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Hohle Fels bone flute (Conard et al. 2009)
35,000 BP

Early movement into NW Beringia 30,050 BC
Last Glacial Maximum begins 26,050 BC
East Beringia terminus post quem 24,050 BC
Mal'ta Siberia genome 22,050 BC
Solutrean Culture begins (b) 21,550 BC
Earliest Solutrean tools (a) 19,050 BC

2888 BC
19.78 pmc, 13 400 years +, 16 288 BC

East Beringia terminus ante quem 16,050 BC
Last Glacial Maximum ends 16,050 BC

Latest Solutrean tools (a + b) 15,050 BC
Deglaciation of Pacific, ante quem 15,050 BC

Monte Verde, Chile 12,650 BC

2820 BC
33.849 pmc, 8950 years +, 11 770 BC

Icefree corridor between Cordilleran and Laurentide ice sheets, tpq 11,550 BC

Clovis Culture begins (b) 11,350 BC

Clovis Culture begins (a) 11,050 BC

Anzick-1 10,757 - 10,606 BC

Clovis Culture ends (b) 10,850 BC

Clovis Culture ends (a) 10,650 BC

C-14 dated 9600 BC
Beginning of Göbekli Tepe.

2751 BC
45.062 pmc, 6600 years +, 9351 BC

Abu Hureyra 9190
Abu Salem 8600

2733 BC
Tower of Babel (Syncellus, "St Jerome A" as defined above)

C-14 dated 8600 BC
End of Göbekli Tepe.

α "8500"
Nanzhuangtou culture 南莊頭遺址 Yellow River region in southern Hebei

Abu Madi 8050
Abu Salem 8020

Stonehenge first inhabitants 8000 BC

Aswad 7855
Abu Madi 7840

2683 BC
53.756 pmc, 5150 years +, 7833 BC

'Abr 3 7800
'Abr 3 7735

ω "7700"
Nanzhuangtou culture 南莊頭遺址 Yellow River region in southern Hebei
α "7500"
Pengtoushan culture 彭頭山文化 central Yangtze region in northwestern Hunan

Ain el-Kerkh 7400
Ain el-Kerkh 7215

7,000 B.C. Ireland inhabited

α "7000"
Peiligang culture 裴李崗文化 Yi-Luo river basin valley in Henan

α A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Chinese flute set (Zhang et al. 1999)
7,000–5,000 BC

Abu Gosh
Akarçay 6800

2614 BC
60.687 pmc, 4150 years +, 6764 BC

Kennewick Man 6740 - 6450 BC

Ain Abu Nukhayla 6675
Aswad 6590
Ain Jammam 6570

α "6500"
Houli culture 後李文化 Shandong

Ain Abu Nukhayla 6420
Azraq 6400
Azraq 6325

α "6200"
Xinglongwa culture 興隆洼文化 Inner Mongolia-Liaoning border
ω "6100"
Pengtoushan culture 彭頭山文化 central Yangtze region in northwestern Hunan

Ain Jammam 6080
Abu Hureyra 6070

European gene pool unity since about 6050 BC

Almendres Cromlech I 6000 BC

α "6000"
Kuahuqiao culture 跨湖桥文化 Zhejiang
Cishan culture 磁山文化 southern Hebei

2545 BC
66.061 pmc, 3450 years +, 5995 BC

α "5800"
Dadiwan culture 大地灣文化 Gansu and western Shaanxi

Akarçay 5520

ω "5500"
Houli culture 後李文化 Shandong
Cishan culture 磁山文化 southern Hebei

α "5500"
Xinle culture 新樂文化 lower Liao River on the Liaodong Peninsula

5,400 B.C. one very early tomb of Carrowmore and Knocknarea

ω "5400"
Dadiwan culture 大地灣文化 Gansu and western Shaanxi
Xinglongwa culture 興隆洼文化 Inner Mongolia-Liaoning border

α "5400"
Zhaobaogou culture 趙宝溝文化 Luan River valley in Inner Mongolia and northern Hebei

2476 BC
70.344 pmc, 2900 years +, 5376 BC

α "5300"
Beixin culture 北辛文化 Shandong

Mesolithic Spanish genome 5050 BC

Almendres Cromlech II 5000 BC

ω A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Chinese flute set (Zhang et al. 1999)
7,000–5,000 BC

ω "5000"
Kuahuqiao culture 跨湖桥文化 Zhejiang
Peiligang culture 裴李崗文化 Yi-Luo river basin valley in Henan

α "5000"
Hemudu culture 河姆渡文化 Yuyao and Zhoushan, Zhejiang
Daxi culture 大溪文化 Three Gorges region
Majiabang culture 馬家浜文化 Lake Tai area and north of Hangzhou Bay
Yangshao culture 仰韶文化 Henan, Shaanxi, and Shanxi

2408 BC
73.663 pmc, 2550 years +, 4958 BC

Goseck circle 4900 BC

ω "4800"
Xinle culture 新樂文化 lower Liao River on the Liaodong Peninsula

Goseck circle 4700 BC

α "4700"
Hongshan culture 紅山文化 Inner Mongolia, Liaoning, and Hebei

76.312 pmc, 2250 years +, 4590 BC

ω "4500"
Zhaobaogou culture 趙宝溝文化 Luan River valley in Inner Mongolia and northern Hebei
Hemudu culture 河姆渡文化 Yuyao and Zhoushan, Zhejiang

La Culture d'Arzachena 4300 av. J.C.

ω "4100"
Beixin culture 北辛文化 Shandong

α "4100"
Dawenkou culture 大汶口文化 Shandong, Anhui, Henan, and Jiangsu

La cultura di Bonu Ighinu 4000 a.C.

2271 BC
78.366 pmc, 2000 years +, 4271 BC

A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Antaras of Peru (Bishop 2014)
≈4200 BC

80.000 pmc, 1850 years +, 4052 BC

Poverty Point [Earliest] Mounds** 4050 BC

Almendres Cromlech III 4000 BC
4,000 B.C. early tombs of Carrowmore and Knocknarea

81.266 pmc, 1700 years +, 3834 BC

α "3800"
Songze culture 崧澤文化 Lake Tai area

3,700 B.C. Céide Fields
La Culture d'Arzachena 3700 av. J.C.

82.28 pmc, 1600 years +, 3665 BC

3,500 B.C. late tombs of Carrowmore and Knocknarea

2015 BC
Birth of Abraham, St Jerome.

1997 BC
83.069 pmc, 1550 years +, 3547 BC

α "3400"
Liangzhu culture 良渚文化 Yangtze River Delta

1928 BC
83.689 pmc, 1450 years +, 3378 BC

La cultura di Bonu Ighinu 3300 a.C.
La culture d'Ozieri 3300 av. J.C.

α A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Harp rock etching from Megiddo (Braun 2002)
≈3300–3000 BC

ω "3300"
Songze culture 崧澤文化 Lake Tai area

3,200 B.C. Knowth, Newgrange
Stonehenge 1 (ca. 3100 BC)

α "3100"
Majiayao culture 馬家窯文化 upper Yellow River region in Gansu and Qinghai
Qujialing culture 屈家嶺文化 middle Yangtze region in Hubei and Hunan

Limit : Earliest inhabitants vs Later ones 3050 BC and earlier

3,000 B.C. Cloghanmore and Farranmacbride of Glencolmcille

ω A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Harp rock etching from Megiddo (Braun 2002)
≈3300–3000 BC

A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Lithophone of Vietnam (Lithophone 2008)
3000 BC

A. Habermehl's
Music Instruments
Sumerian musicians bas relief (Wilson 2012)
3000 BC

ω "3000"
Daxi culture 大溪文化 Three Gorges region
Majiabang culture 馬家浜文化 Lake Tai area and north of Hangzhou Bay
Yangshao culture 仰韶文化 Henan, Shaanxi, and Shanxi

α "3000"
Longshan culture 龍山文化 central and lower Yellow River

ω "2900"
[Hongshan culture 紅山文化 Inner Mongolia, Liaoning, and Hebei .... omitting later endings of Chinese cultures]

[La culture d'Ozieri 2480 av. J.C.]

For any item, letters alpha and omega are used as beginning and end of, while alpha, beta, even gamma are used as first, second, third etc stages of whatever./HGL

Tuesday, March 7, 2017

Stone Age Poland from Flood to Abraham

Using the table in : Flood to Abraham, St Jerome A

"40 000"
Homo sapiens proper (Homo sapiens sapiens, the Cro-Magnon type) appears in the Upper Paleolithic, which lasted from 40,000 to 9,000 BCE.[a] During the coldest part of this Ice age period, 20,000 to 15,000 BCE, humans did not inhabit Poland. The latter, warmer part, after the climatic discontinuity and the reappearance of humans, is considered the Late Paleolithic.

[Could also be post-Flood, but if 40 000 BC, it could be Sethite visitors to Poland before the Flood too. If so, close kin to Noah. Or similarily mixed with Neanderthals as the post-Flood Sethites.]

The Flood 2957 BC
(St Jerome)
1.636 %, + 34 000 years, 36 957 BC

"28 000"
In a cave near Nowy Targ (East-Gravettian culture), a 30,000-year-old boomerang, the world's oldest, was found. It is a crescent-shaped 70 cm long object with a fine finish, made of mammoth tusk.

Also 30,000 years old are the so-called Mladeč-type blades of the Aurignacian culture, made of bone, found in Wierzchowie, Kraków County.

"25 500"
A 27,500-year old burial of an 18-month old child, complete with burial gift decorative artifacts, pendant or necklace elements made of teeth of large ungulates, was discovered in Borsuk Cave near Kraków (southern Kraków-Częstochowa Upland). It is believed to be the oldest intentional burial located in Poland.

"25 000"
Mammoths were hunted in the Kraków area during 25,000-20,000 BCE.

"20 000"
[Beginning of ice age break :] Homo sapiens proper (Homo sapiens sapiens, the Cro-Magnon type) appears in the Upper Paleolithic, which lasted from 40,000 to 9,000 BCE.[a] During the coldest part of this Ice age period, 20,000 to 15,000 BCE, humans did not inhabit Poland. The latter, warmer part, after the climatic discontinuity and the reappearance of humans, is considered the Late Paleolithic.

Mammoths were hunted in the Kraków area during 25,000-20,000 BCE.

2888 BC
19.78 pmc, 13 400 years +, 16 288 BC

"15 000"
[End of ice age break :] Homo sapiens proper (Homo sapiens sapiens, the Cro-Magnon type) appears in the Upper Paleolithic, which lasted from 40,000 to 9,000 BCE.[a] During the coldest part of this Ice age period, 20,000 to 15,000 BCE, humans did not inhabit Poland. The latter, warmer part, after the climatic discontinuity and the reappearance of humans, is considered the Late Paleolithic.

[older date] Remnants of a 15,000 to 17,000 years old Magdalenian culture dwelling (a dugout cabin site with traces of supporting posts, a hearth and imported materials) were discovered recently in Ćmielów, Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski County.

"14 500"
A rich source of Late Paleolithic sites and artifacts (the Magdalenian culture of 14,500 BCE) is the Prądnik River Valley. The Maszycka Cave there contained the remains of a typical (at that time) social unit of several families, 20-30 people, as well as numerous tools and other artifacts of their culture, including ornamented bone utensils

"13 500"
Hamburgian begins

"13 000"
[Younger date] Remnants of a 15,000 to 17,000 years old Magdalenian culture dwelling (a dugout cabin site with traces of supporting posts, a hearth and imported materials) were discovered recently in Ćmielów, Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski County.

"12 600"
Rydno is a complex of archeological sites along the Kamiennna River valley between Skarżysko-Kamienna and Wąchock. Several hundred Paleolithic campsites have been located there, which makes it the world's largest accumulation of such finds. They extend over a number of periods, beginning with the Mousterian (Neanderthal) culture, followed by the Hamburg culture of reindeer hunters. The Final Paleolithic is represented there by the Komornica culture, named after a village in Legionowo County. The best known Late Paleolithic campsites in the area, which include some dugout huts, belonged to the people preoccupied with hematite ore mining, from which ochre pigment used for body painting was being made. The red dye was widely traded, which is why rocks and minerals originating from distant regions of today's Poland, Slovakia and Hungary are found at Rydno. Pieces of "chocolate" flint brought into this area for processing were stored in quantities that were always multiples of three. Because of this and other evidence, it is believed that the Paleolithic people developed a counting system based on this number. A 12,600 BCE Hamburg culture site with tents, camp-fire and stone meat baking devices was discovered in Olbrachcice, Wschowa County.

"12 000"
Federmesser culture begins

"11 900"
Ahrensburg culture begins

2820 BC
33.849 pmc, 8950 years +, 11 770 BC

"11 100"
Hamburgian ends

"11 000"
Swiderian culture begins

"10 800"
Federmesser culture ends

"10 700"
Ahrensburg culture ends

C-14 dated 9600 BC
Beginning of Göbekli Tepe.

2751 BC
45.062 pmc, 6600 years +, 9351 BC

[End of:] Homo sapiens proper (Homo sapiens sapiens, the Cro-Magnon type) appears in the Upper Paleolithic, which lasted from 40,000 to 9,000 BCE.[a] During the coldest part of this Ice age period, 20,000 to 15,000 BCE, humans did not inhabit Poland. The latter, warmer part, after the climatic discontinuity and the reappearance of humans, is considered the Late Paleolithic.

[Beginning of:] The Mesolithic lasted from 9000 BCE (rapid climate warming) to 5500 BCE (arrival of first farmers from the Danube River area). It was the last period when the food production economy was entirely opportunistic, based on assimilation of plant and animal material found in nature, that is gathering and hunting. Because of warmer temperatures, complex forest ecosystems and wetlands developed and this natural diversity necessitated new hunting and fishing strategies. As new populations entered Poland from the west,[14] hunters and fishermen working individually or in small groups had to pursue single large and small animals using traps, javelins, bows and arrows, boats and fishing equipment, and utilizing dogs. Women engaged in gathering of such products as roots, herbs, nuts, bird eggs, mollusks, fruit or honey, which possibly was even more important than hunting. Mesolithic human settlements became quite numerous and by the end of this period the economy of harvesting nature became very highly developed. Tools and devices were made of materials such as stone (flint strip mines have been found at the northern edge of Świętokrzyskie Mountains), bone, wood, horn, or plant material for rope and baskets, and included such fine utensils as fishing hooks and sewing needles. Animal figurines were made of amber. At least during the later Mesolithic, the dead were placed in graves and outfitted with familiar objects of their surroundings.

2733 BC
Tower of Babel (Syncellus, "St Jerome A" as defined above) : the few men of Swiderian culture who were in Poland, and had been speaking Hebrew, as well as the main portion of mankind, around Göbekli Tepe, ceased to speak Hebrew and were given a new language, the ones at Babel being in family with those of Swiderian culture getting the same as they and soon coming out to Poland.

C-14 dated 8600 BC
End of Göbekli Tepe.

"8 200"
Swiderian culture ends

2683 BC
53.756 pmc, 5150 years +, 7833 BC

2614 BC
60.687 pmc, 4150 years +, 6764 BC

2545 BC
66.061 pmc, 3450 years +, 5995 BC

[End of:] The Mesolithic lasted from 9000 BCE (rapid climate warming) to 5500 BCE (arrival of first farmers from the Danube River area). It was the last period when the food production economy was entirely opportunistic, based on assimilation of plant and animal material found in nature, that is gathering and hunting. Because of warmer temperatures, complex forest ecosystems and wetlands developed and this natural diversity necessitated new hunting and fishing strategies. As new populations entered Poland from the west,[14] hunters and fishermen working individually or in small groups had to pursue single large and small animals using traps, javelins, bows and arrows, boats and fishing equipment, and utilizing dogs. Women engaged in gathering of such products as roots, herbs, nuts, bird eggs, mollusks, fruit or honey, which possibly was even more important than hunting. Mesolithic human settlements became quite numerous and by the end of this period the economy of harvesting nature became very highly developed. Tools and devices were made of materials such as stone (flint strip mines have been found at the northern edge of Świętokrzyskie Mountains), bone, wood, horn, or plant material for rope and baskets, and included such fine utensils as fishing hooks and sewing needles. Animal figurines were made of amber. At least during the later Mesolithic, the dead were placed in graves and outfitted with familiar objects of their surroundings.

Linear Pottery culture begins

One such well preserved grave of an apparent tool-maker, together with his tools and other items, was found in Janisławice near Skierniewice and dated 5500 BCE.

Early Neolithic era began around 5500 BCE with the arrival from the middle Danube area of people, who kept livestock, cultivated crops, made pottery and smooth-surface tools. Their land tilling predecessors had been coming into the Balkans and then the Danube region from Anatolia beginning a thousand years earlier. They formed the first settled rural communities, thus forging the most fundamental civilizational advance.

2476 BC
70.344 pmc, 2900 years +, 5376 BC

Ertebølle culture begins

Despite the big impact they made, the first waves came in small numbers - hundreds, or at most a few thousand people, judging by the sizes of the known settlements. They populated mainly fertile soils of southern highlands and river valleys further north, all the way to the Baltic Sea. They lived alongside the more numerous native people who were still pursuing the Mesolithic lifestyle, but during the Linear Pottery culture times there wasn't much interaction, as the two groups inhabited different environments.[17] Their villages consisted of several, but sometimes up to a dozen or so rectangular communal long-houses,[18] some over 30 meters long, supported by wooden posts, the oldest of which come from the Lower Silesia region. One such location from about 5000 BCE was also unearthed at Olszanica, which is now at the west end of Kraków just within the city limits.

After 5000 BCE new waves of immigrants arrived from the south again, which accelerated the process of differentiation of the agrarian society into several distinct cultures during the first half of 5th millennium BC and afterwards.

In the Oder River basin mostly there was the culture named after the punctured variety of Linear Band pottery - Stroked Pottery culture, while in the Vistula River basin the Lengyel and Polgár cultures appeared. The two regions developed in some separation, but within them the different cultural traditions of the younger Danubian circle often overlapped.

also "5000"
Hinkelstein culture begins
Lengyel culture begins
The Malice farming culture of southern Poland begins

The Malice farming culture of southern Poland (all of 5th millennium and until 3800 BCE, named after a site in Malice near Sandomierz) was the first Neolithic culture to originate north of the Carpathian Mountains and spread south.[25] A rare discovery of 5th millennium Malice culture buildings and decorated pottery was made in Targowisko, Wieliczka County.

2408 BC
73.663 pmc, 2550 years +, 4958 BC

Hinkelstein culture ends

The original newcomers represented the Linear Pottery culture. Their uniform culture survived in Poland in its original form until about 4600 BCE.

The houses were now of an elongated trapezoidal shape, up to 40 meters long, grouped in larger complexes, often protected by beam and earth walls, moats and other fortifications, as such defensive measures apparently became necessary against people from the still Mesolithic native population or other Danubian settlements. These defensive structures, built from the mid 5th millennium BCE on, were complicated and consumed significant time and resources. Their design followed that of the similar construction that was taking place in the Danube River areas, starting in the early part of this millennium. Large cemeteries and graves supplied with fancier objects such as jewelry, including the first so-called "princely" graves (the princesses had imported copper necklaces, earrings and diadems in addition to locally made decorations), testify to the emergence of a relatively more affluent society. Cattle raising and trading (large varieties resulted from cross-breeding with the aurochs) and land tillage provided basic sustenance. Salt was obtained and traded and became a much sought after commodity, at first probably to help preserve stored food. The salt springs around Wieliczka were utilized already by the Lengyel culture people, who left ceramic vessels used in salt production there.[20] The Danubian people produced many richly decorated objects, including clay containers with animal head ornaments and figurines of women.

A settlement and cemetery of the Lengyel-Polgár cultural zone, dated around or after 4600 BCE, was discovered in Ślęza, Wrocław County. It consisted of a central long trapezoidal house accompanied by several post-built supporting structures.

also "4600"
Stroke-ornamented ware culture begins
Rössen culture begins

76.312 pmc, 2250 years +, 4590 BC

Linear Pottery culture ends

Ertebølle culture goes ceramik

After 4500 BCE the Ertebølle culture of northwestern origin entered a ceramic phase with its own forms of pottery (characteristic pointed bottoms). They lived by the Baltic Sea shores and were specialized in utilizing the resources of the sea, thus still representing the Mesolithic ways of life. At their settlement in Dąbki near Koszalin Stroke-ornamented pottery was found, obtained probably through trade with the Danubian people.

The native Mesolithic populations were slow in gradually assimilating the agricultural way of life, beginning with just the use of ceramics. It took a thousand years into the Neolithic period before they adopted animal husbandry (which became especially important to them) and plant cultivation to any appreciable degree. When they eventually developed interest in the more fertile areas utilized by the late Danubian cultures, they became the threat that compelled the Danubian farmers to fortify their settlements. The native post-Mesolithic groups expanded beyond the traditional Danubian areas of agricultural development, moving also into ecologically less favorable environments, which included utilization of sandy soils.

[A thousand years? Look at the real years!]

Stroke-ornamented ware culture ends
Lengyel culture begins to flourish in Poland
The first truly native Neolithic culture was the Funnelbeaker culture, named after the shape of their typical clay vessels. It developed starting around 4400 BCE and lasted some two thousand years.

[Lasted some 2000 years? Confer the real dates!]

They built tombs of large stones, some of them huge (for example trapezoidal structures up to 150 meters long) and resembling pyramids. Few survived until now because of the demand for stone as building material, but a well-preserved one from the first half of 4th millennium BC was found in Wietrzychowice near Włocławek. From this place and period came the skull, on which the trepanation procedure was performed for medical or magic reasons.

Rössen culture ends

2271 BC
78.366 pmc, 2000 years +, 4271 BC

Among the large explored settlements of the Lengyel culture from the 4400-4000 BCE period, there is one in Brześć Kujawski, and another one in Osłonki, solidly fortified about 4200 BCE after an assault incident involving arson and murder, both located in the Kujawy region.

At the Osłonki settlement nearly 30 trapezoidal houses and over 80 graves were located, some of them with many copper ornaments. The agricultural and construction activities of the communities centered on the two large settlements (hunting and fishing were also practiced) caused very likely an accumulation of environmental damage, which eventually forced them to abandon the area.

80.000 pmc, 1850 years +, 4052 BC

Lengyel culture ends its great flourishing in Poland

Ertebølle culture ends

81.266 pmc, 1700 years +, 3834 BC

The Malice farming culture of southern Poland ends

82.28 pmc, 1600 years +, 3665 BC

2015 BC
Birth of Abraham, St Jerome.

1997 BC
83.069 pmc, 1550 years +, 3547 BC

Lengyel culture ends
A pot from Bronocice, Pińczów County

Timewise the beginnings of the post-Mesolithic cultures in Poland coincide with the beginnings of the Eneolithic period in the Balkans. Copper objects, mostly ornamental or luxurious items, were traded and then developed locally, first by the Danubian and then by the indigenous people. Copper metallurgy facilities were identified in Złota near Sandomierz. Clay decorative objects include realistic representations of animals and containers with images engraved on them. A pot from Bronocice, Pińczów County (3400 BCE) has a unique narrative scene and the world's oldest semblance of a four-wheeled cart drawn on its surface. Stone tools became most highly developed and acquired their then characteristic smooth surfaces. Well preserved settlements with rectangular buildings were unearthed in Gródek Nadbużny near Hrubieszów (where remnants of a vertical loom for weaving were found), in Niedźwiedź near Kraków, and in northern Poland in Barłożno, Starogard Gdański County, where the structures are similar to the ones in Niedźwiedź. In Barłożno three post supported houses were discovered, the largest of which had the main part 16 meters long and 6.5 meters wide. As dated from the ceramics found, they represent the developed, "Wiórecka" phase of the Funnelbeaker culture.

[Beginning of:] The Globular Amphora culture was the next major Neolithic culture. It originated in the Polish lowlands during the first half of 4th millennium BC, lasted to about 2400 BCE in parallel with the Funnelbeaker culture, and is named after the bulging shape of its representative pottery. They specialized in breeding domestic animals and lived in a semi-settled state, seeking optimal pastures and moving as needed. This semi-nomadic lifestyle was probably necessitated by the poor condition of the soils, by that time depleted and rendered infertile because of the preceding centuries of forest burning and extensive exploitation. Globular Amphora were the first culture in Poland known for utilizing the domesticated horse, and swine became important as the source of food. Ritual animal, especially cattle burial sites, often with two or more individuals buried together and supplied with objects as strange as drums have been discovered, but their role is not well understood. Globular Amphora people were involved in the north-south amber trade. Their megalithic burials included ceramics, stone tools and ornamental gifts.

1928 BC
Abraham in En Gedi, according to chronology of St Jerome.
83.689 pmc, 1450 years +, 3378 BC

[Beginning:] The Baden culture in southern Poland was the latest of the Danubian ancestry cultures and continued between 3200 and 2600 BCE. They made vessels with characteristic protruding radial ornaments.

A large fortified Baden culture settlement of around 3000 BCE was found in Bronocice near Pińczów.

[End:] The Baden culture in southern Poland was the latest of the Danubian ancestry cultures and continued between 3200 and 2600 BCE. They made vessels with characteristic protruding radial ornaments.

[End of:] The first truly native Neolithic culture was the Funnelbeaker culture, named after the shape of their typical clay vessels. It developed starting around 4400 BCE and lasted some two thousand years. [This is however outside the Flood to Abraham scope.]

[Lasted some 2000 years? Confer the real dates!]

[End of:] The Globular Amphora culture was the next major Neolithic culture. It originated in the Polish lowlands during the first half of 4th millennium BC, lasted to about 2400 BCE in parallel with the Funnelbeaker culture ...

On Funnelbeaker in general:
"Originating from central European lowlands, the Funnelbeaker people were able to utilize large expanses of less fertile soils, obtained by extensive reduction of forested areas, with the increased role of livestock.[14] They moved south into the regions previously developed by the Danubian cultures, all the way to Bohemia and Moravia. Being more numerous, better fit for the environment, organized and economically more productive, the Funnelbeaker culture people replaced the Danubian cultures in their late phase."

[How do we know there were two different peoples? Anatomy? Genetics?

Even if we know the replacement, do we know the mode?]


I think what I quoted from article, sometimes pasting same quote twice, at beginning and end of a period, which is clumsy, will suffice to bring us up to times of Abraham, though I am omitting ... no, I am not, I'll bring in two more quotes above. Now, that is done, and so is this article./HGL