Sosa und Hitler

Ich denke, Kirchbücher gabs schon.

Das „Reichserbhofgesetz“ und die NSDAP verlangten den Nachweis der „rein arischen“ Abstammung – auch für den Ehepartner – bis 1800, für Bewerber für die SS (ab Führer und/oder Führeranwärter) sogar bis 1750 zurück („großer Ariernachweis“).

Dies wäre theoretisch möglich gewesen. Wurde es aber ausgeführt?

1) Adolf Hitler (1889–1945) 2) Alois Hitler (1837–1903) 3) Klara Pölzl (1860–1907)
4) ? 5) Maria Anna „Mariana“ Schicklgruber (1796–1847) 6) Johann Baptist Pölzl (1828–1902) 7) Johanna Hiedler (1830–1906)		4) Johann Georg Hiedler (1792–1857) 5) Maria Anna „Mariana“ Schicklgruber (1796–1847) 6) Johann Baptist Pölzl (1828–1902) 7) Johanna Hiedler (1830–1906)
8) ? 9) ? 10) Johannes Schicklgruber (1764–1847) 11) Theresia Pfeisinger (1769–1821) 12) Laurenz Pölzl (1788–1841) 13) Juliana Walli (1797–1831) 14) Johann Nepomuk Hiedler (1807–1888) 15) Eva Maria Decker (1792–1873)		8) Martin Hiedler (1762–1829) 9) Anna Maria Goschl (1760–1854) 10) Johannes Schicklgruber (1764–1847) 11) Theresia Pfeisinger (1769–1821) 12) Laurenz Pölzl (1788–1841) 13) Juliana Walli (1797–1831) 14) Johann Nepomuk Hiedler (1807–1888) 15) Eva Maria Decker (1792–1873)
16) ? 17) ? 18) ? 19) ? 20) ? 21) ? 22) ? 23) ? 24) ? 25) ? 26) ? 27) ? 28) Martin Hiedler (1762–1829) 29) Anna Maria Goschl (1760–1854) 30) ? 31) ?		16) Johann Hiedler (1725–1803) 17) Maria Anna Neugeschwandter (?) 18) ? 19) ? 20) ? 21) ? 22) ? 23) ? 24) ? 25) ? 26) ? 27) ? 28 = 8 29 = 9 30) ? 31) ?

Wenn Alois der Sohn Johann Georg Hiedlers war, geht die Ahnentafel nur in 16 und 17 hinter 1750 zurück. Wenn nicht, geht keine Linie überhaupt hinter 1750 zurück.

Was wurde verschwiegen? Ahnen die viel später als am achten Lebenstag getauft wurden? Oder Ahnen dessen Ehepaar heiratete als dia Braut under 15 Jahre alt war? Übrigens, ich sehe Lebensjahre aber keine Heiratsjahre oder Daten. Und für Maria Anna Neugeschwandter nicht einmal Lebensdaten. War sie so nahe an 1750, daß sie etwa 12—13 bei der Geburt Martins war? Jedenfalls, ich hätte für beide Sachen mich nicht geschämt. Ein Mann der lieber Künzler hätte bleiben sollen, vielleicht schon.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
der hl. Anton von Padua
13.VI.2026

Patavii sancti Antonii Lusitani, Sacerdotis ex Ordine Minorum et Confessoris, atque Ecclesiae Doctoris, vita, et miraculis, ac praedicatione illustris, quem, uno post illius obitum anno nondum expleto, Gregorius Papa Nonus in Sanctorum canonem retulit.

PS, wenn Alois nicht der Sohn Johann Georg Hiedlers war geht die Ahnentafel freilich schon hinter 1750 zurück, aber nur in den 32 Ahnen: 32 bis 55 unbekannt, 56 Johann Hiedler (1725–1803) und 57 Maria Anna Neugeschwandter (?), dann 58 bis 63 wieder unbekannt. Wenn er es war, dann sind in den 32 Ahnen 56 = 16 und 57 = 17./HGL

Paris in the Middle Ages Had Fewer Fires than Hong Kong?

Happy Valley Racecourse fire, Wing On warehouse fire, Shek Kip Mei fire, 1986 Cipel-Marco fur factory explosion, 1996 Pat Sin Leng wildfire, 1996 Garley Building fire, Immigration Tower, Admiralty station (MTR), Cornwall Court fire, 2011 Fa Yuen Street fire, Amoycan Industrial Centre fire, New Lucky House, Wang Fuk Court fire

Fires in Paris cites the Paris Commune and then the Semaine sanglante as the oldest ones. None from the Middle Ages.

The French version of the page actually has one from the Middle Ages: Bal des ardents, in English Bal des Ardents / Ball of the Burning Men (28 January 1393, four dead in a fire caused by a torch carried the wrong way at court).

In the article Brigade de sapeurs-pompiers de Paris, in English Paris Fire Brigade (was it created 1793 or 1811?), there are in the French article various measures from 1371 to 1722 on how fires should be fought. But no mention of a fire of historic proportions.

I can't actually know that Paris had fewer fires than the ones shown for Hong Kong, since some of these are small and are noted on wikipedia just because they were more recent. But anything the proportion of the fire from 26th November this year, I think it would have been remembered.

So, no, the Middle Ages were not full of a fire hasard, they were simply very conscious of security measures, which seem to have worked satifactorily, unlike the ones for big tower buildings in more recent times. London and Novgorod were not so lucky, but that's because they had more houses purely in wood.

And a fire leaving thousands homeless, like 1953 fire leaving 53,000 homeless, well, that would certainly have been noted in Paris, but didn't occur. It did occur a few times in London (like under John Lackland), with a repeat in 1666, and at least once in Novgorod.

Bourges actually has a few of them: 588, 760, 23 June 1252, 1259, 1338, 1353, 1407, 1463, 1467, 27 July 1487, 1508 and 1538. But these seem to have caused homelessness without causing death. I suppose it's easier to escape a burning house from the upper floor to the ground floor (or to the street or backyard outside it) than to escape from floor 20 in a high modern building.

In Denmark / Norway, Trondheim had fires in 1598, 1708, 1841, 1842 and Copenhagen 1728 and 1795. Hamburg has a fire 5—8 May 1842. All three cities after the Middle Ages.

But Bremen actually in the Middle Ages, Sept. 11th, 1041. Bremer Brand, which I cite:

Opferzahlen des Brandes sind nicht überliefert. Es wird aber berichtet, dass neben dem Dom und der Dombibliothek auch die Stiftsgebäude sowie zahlreiche weitere Häuser in der Umgebung ein Opfer der Flammen wurden.

Victim numbers from the fire are not transmitted. But it's said that beside the Cathedral and the Cathedral's library also the houses attached to the See, and numerous other houses in the vicinity burned down. I venture to guess, none died, and given the social importance of the unhoused, they were quickly rehoused, and their neighbours with them.

Stadtbrand von Einbeck involves many people and cattle dead, 26th of July. It was in 1540 and there were 33 city fires that very dry year. Luther pretended that Catholics had caused them to combat the Reformation, but actually Catholic cities were destroyed too. Einbeck had introduced the Deformation 11 years earlier. Now, there was a confession of Catholic guilt:

On the 28th of July, a drunk shepherd was arrested and admitted under torture that the Patrician Heinrich Diek (presumably a Catholic) had paid him. Next day, Philip of Hassia, the man whom Luther had allowed or was going to allow bigamy, sent warning letters about arson to other cities. On Sept. 4th, Diek had, also under torture, confessed. 18th same month, the Deformer Anton Corvinus (no English article available) transmits the hearings protocols to Philip of Hassia. 28 of December, the Schmalkaldic League proceeds against Duke Henry the Younger, the last Catholic prince in the area. Under torture, Diek had named him as instigator.

Similarily just after the Middle Ages, we have the great city fire of Görtlitz, 1525. Großer Stadtbrand (Görlitz). 180 houses or 1/3 of the city burned down. Death toll, the baker in whose house the fire broke out this night between 12th and 13th of June. Plus his children. 30th of April, same year, the Deformer Franz Rothbart (no article in English) had celebrated Lutheran "Mass" for the first time, 44—45 days before the fire. Less than 100 years earlier, 1429, the city within the walls had not been burned, but the Hussites had burned the surrounding suburbs.

Munich? Stadtbrand von München, 13th of February 1327. It destroyed 1/3 of the city. The Franciscan Hermann Sack would decades later as chronicler say that 30 people died. October Feast Museum is in a house that was enlarged after this fire. Hear about the moral sequel, pretty different from Einbeck:

In der Folge wurde für die Obdachlosen und ihre Familien gesammelt und die Bürger halfen gemeinsam beim Wiederaufbau.

In the following days or weeks, one collected for the homeless and their familities and the burghers were all of them helping at the rebuilding. Probably happened in Einbeck too, but there it is overshadowed by the war preparations on Duke Henry the Younger, starting to open war when he attacked Goslar for its Deformation. Back to just after the Middle Ages, the Stadtbrand in Prag 1541 / Požár Malé Strany a Hradčan. 1541 was obviously the year after 1540, and in Prague, no one was accused. Except the sumemr heat, 2nd of June. Prague:Einbeck = 1:0. Hradčany, all 42 houses destroyed. Malá Strana, 133 houses destroyed, 78 spared. I think pretty much of churches and the castle were destroyed too.

Hájek trug auch Informationen über die Todesopfer zusammen. Er gab an, wo die Menschen wohnten und wo sie gefunden wurden, von jedem Opfer nannte er zumindest den Namen oder den Beruf. Seinem Bericht zufolge starben insgesamt 52 Menschen. Auf der Kleinseite waren es 23 Menschen, auf der Prager Burg 23 und auf dem Hradschin 6. Zwei beschrieb Hájek als verkrüppelt, aber am Leben. Die meisten Todesopfer waren Bedienstete und Kinder.

Wenceslaus Hajek collected the information about the death toll. He indicated where the people lived and where they had been found, of each victim he at least mentioned name or occupation. According to his account, in all 52 people died. On Malá Strana, 23 people, on the Castle, 23, on the Hradčany 6. He described two as crippled but alive. The majority of the death victims were servants and children.

If we look, again, on Einbeck, the blaming of Catholics after a fire takes us to First Century Rome, right? German wiki has a page on Roman city fires. Römische Stadtbrände The one in AD 64 came just decades after one in 27. These are the ones after 64:

• Im Jahr 69 wütete ein größerer Brand auf dem Kapitol.
• Auch zur Regierungszeit des Titus brannte es im Jahr 80 auf dem Kapitol und dem Marsfeld.
• Im Jahr 192 verwüstete ein weiterer großer Stadtbrand weite Teile der Stadt.
• Bei dem Brand von 283 fing das Forum Romanum Feuer.

Won't translate that right now, but if you note the years, 69, 80, 192, 283, the list ceases before the Middle Ages.

On the German category, I have not included Constantinople, since it's not in the Latin area, nor London, since it's well known, even for the Middle Ages, but most of the total of 67 city fires were from Modern Times, not from the Middle Ages. Returning to the French category, I found Oslo and Rennes and Oulu also were burned down only in Modern Times. Stockholm was unusually "firey" during the Middle Ages:

Throughout its history, Stockholm has been struck by many large fires, one of the oldest documented fires ravaging the city on April 14, 1297. The years 1330, 1344, 1407, 1411, 1419, 1445, 1458, and 1495 saw the city ravaged by major fires. The fire of 1407 was caused by a lightning strike and was alleged by some sources to have claimed up to 1,600 casualties. This fire destroyed many areas, including the Black Friars' Monastery of Stockholm.

After the year 1501, the building of wooden houses was banned inside the city walls. In 1552, the ban against fire hazards within the city was tightened so that the wooden houses in the town center were to be demolished and replaced with stone. However, there were still flammable wooden buildings, such as outhouses and sheds, left in the yard.

Obviously, Stockholm was in the same category as London and Novgorod. Too much wood in the city. The item on 1600 casualties is from Swea Rikes Historia, but even Sven Lagerbring in 1783 said "according to some sources" ...

Hans Georg Lundahl
Bpi, Georges Pompidou
I Lord's Day of Advent
30.XI.2025

Comment apprendre une poësie par cœur ?

Une vidéo avec Cassandre Fristot et d'autres Catholiques se trouve interrompue pour une publicité "boostez votre mental" ...

Le gérant de ce programme de "self-help" dit avoir été obligé d'apprendre une poësie par cœur et de ne pas avoir été informé par l'instituteur ou l'institutrice comment on le fait.

J'interromps la lecture de cette publicité pour me dire "mais, j'ai appris ça" ... en Autriche, l'hiver 1979 à 1980, jusqu'à Pâques, j'ai vécu chez un ami accueillant et profité d'une professeure retraitée et par rapport à moi, bénévole.

J'ai pu réciter "Wer reitet so spät durch Nacht und Wind" et "Die Bürgschaft" (ou extraits choisis) et je me souviens très bien comment on le fait.

Der Erlkönig (le roi des Aulnes) par Goethe a 8 strophes par 4 vers par strophe.

Die Bürgschaft par Schiller (titre français manque) a 20 strophes par 7 vers par strophe. Je ne suis pas sür d'avoir appris toutes les strophes.

Évidemment, on divise la poësie en strophes, on apprend une par une par cœur, et on divise chaque strophe en vers, on apprend un par un ou autant qu'on peut à la fois par cœur.

Zu Dionys, dem Tyrannen, schlich
Damon, den Dolch im Gewande:
Ihn schlugen die Häscher in Bande,
"Was wolltest du mit dem Dolche? sprich!"
Entgegnet ihm finster der Wüterich.
"Die Stadt vom Tyrannen befreien!"
"Das sollst du am Kreuze bereuen."

Je lis d'abord toute la strophe, pour avoir le rhytme. Ensuite, j'enlève les yeux du livre, je répète autant que je peux, et ensuite je regarde si j'ai bien répété, et quels mots suivent, je continue autant vite que je peux, et je répète jusqu'à connaître la strophe par cœur. Ensuite, j'enchaîne la strophe suivante.

Le processus est bien entendu identique pour apprendre des chansons, sauf que là, ce n'est pas juste le rythme, mais toute la mélodie qui aide l'apprentissage.

Autant dire que je déteste certains types de vers libres, donc sans rythme. Il paraît qu'en français, le nom "vers libre" ne veut pas tout à fait dire ça, mais il s'agit des vrais vers qui ne sont ni octosyllabes, ni alexandrines. Ça, c'est autre chose. Mais "fri vers" / "freier Vers" / "free verse" ... non, le mètre sert à quelque chose.

Notons, je ne recommande pas la méthode de Damon et Phinthias, tant que d'autres méthodes existent.

Par contre, je recommende :

Les yeux sur le livre

Zu Dionys, dem Tyrannen, schlich

Les yeux détournés

Zu Dionys, dem Tyrannen, schlich

Les yeux sur le livre

Damon, den Dolch im Gewande:

Les yeux détournés

Damon, den Dolch im Gewande:

Les yeux sur le livre

Ihn schlugen die Häscher in Bande,

Les yeux détournés

Ihn schlugen die Häscher in Bande,

C'est très peu probable que la mémoire perde une ligne de cette brièveté en juste quelques secondes.
/Hans Georg Lundahl

Latein und Romanisch

Antworten nach Sorte: Mitterer Deutsch / Croatisch UND Latein / Französisch · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Latein und Romanisch

Zunächst, ich habe diese Theorie nicht erfunden, sondern gelesen, in einem Buch aus der 30-er bis 50-er (denke ich, warscheinlich 40-er) Jahren, welches im Klassischen Institut der Universität Lund im Keller sich befand.

Zur Illustration. Später Text, warscheinlich schon romanisch gesprochen, mit einer etwa 200 Jahre jüngere Aussprache:

Historiarum Francorum libri X
Liber II 5. De Aravatio episcopo et Chunis.
https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Historiarum_Francorum_libri_X/Liber_II#5._De_Aravatio_episcopo_et_Chunis.

Ich nehme an, 1) der Lautstand der Aussprache war zur Zeit des hl. Gregor nicht nur Proto-Romanisch, sondern wenigstens Gallo-Romanisch, und 200 Jahre später, in Tours, Langue d'oïl. 2) Im geschriebenem Latein kamen Compromissen vor, um einige lateinische Formen zu ermöglichen, aber war sonst mit der völkischen Aussprache identisch, dagegen war die Diktion und Syntax verschieden, wie auch bis vor kurzem zwischen Dhimotiki und Katharevousa, oder zwischen Ukrainisch und Kirchslavisch mit ukrainischer Aussprache.

Und, 3) diese Identität der Aussprache wird geändert, absichtlich, vom hl. Alcuin von Tours. Das "local appeal" der Aussprache wird dabei dem "international appeal" geopfert. Die lokale Sprache wird plötzlich dem Latein gegenüber eine fremde Mundart, ein Patois, die sogenannte "lingua romana rustica" des Synods von 813. Die neue Aussprache, die Alcuin als Fremdsprache erlernt hatte, ist die die wir als Mittellatein kennen, wesentlich ein Latein Italiens in England um 600 umgepflanzt, und dann als Fremdsprache vereinfacht, d. h. der Schrift noch angenähert. Daher auch die Endung -um die wie deutsch "um" lautet, statt ein -u~ im portugisischen Sinne auszumachen.

Ich gebe unter der Schrift zunächst die als schriftgemäß empfundene Aussprache, so wie ich den Sachverhalt verstehe, wie sie vor Alcuins Ankunft war, dann eine volkstümliche, wobei ich denke das zwischen den beiden, so wie auch heute zwischen Dhimotiki und Katharevousa, Zwischen-Stufen existierten. Diese Brücken der beiden Sprachebenen verschwinden dann wie auch die Identität der Aussprache, nach Alcuin. Enjoy (oder auch nicht, stehe aus, dann)!/HGL

Igitur rumor erat, Chunos in Galliis velle prorumpere.
[i:ð@r rüm@r ert, hüns e~ galy@s vel proröm~pr@]
[rüm@r ert or, els hüns vulei@n röm~pr@ a l@s galy@s.]

Erat autem tunc temporis apud Tungrus oppidum
[ert oð ton~k tem~pr@s av@ð tön~gr@s oppið]
[ert or don~k ten~s a la citeð tön~gr@s]

Aravatius eximiae sanctitatis episcopus,
[araveis@s, eksiny@ sain~teð@s evesk@v@s]
[araveis, evesk@ grande sain~teð]

qui vigiliis ac ieiuniis vacans,
[ki vely@s a djewn@s vakan~s]
[ki vakan~t e~ vely@s e djewn@s]

crebro lacrimarum imbre perfusus,
[krevr@ l@rmar em~br@ perfüs@s]
[perfüs@s pluy@ espes larm@s]

Domini misericordiam praecabatur,
[donn@ miserkord@ preyav@r]
[preyav@ miserkord@ don]

ne umquam gentem hanc incredulam sibique semper indignam in Galliis venire permitterit.
[nei ön~k@ djen~t@ an~k en~krëül@ s@vik@ e~diny@ e~ galy@s venir permetr@]
[ke n@ ön~k@ tçest@ djen~t@ e~fiel e e~diny@ s@ permet@ venir a galy@s]

Sed sentiens per spiritum,
[seð sensie~s p@r esperið]
[meis senten~t p@r esperið]

pro dilictis populi sibi hoc non fuisse concessum,
[pru d@lit@s pövl@ s@ ok no füs kontçes]
[k@ pru d@lit@s pövl@ tçest no füð kontçes]

consilium habuit expetendi urbem Romanam,
[kon~sely@ aot espeðen@ ürp ruman@]
[aot kon~sely@ espeðir la citeð ruman@]

scilicet ut, adiunctam sibi apostolicae virtutis patrocinia,
[stsilist üt adjon~t@ s@vi apostri@ vertüd@s persiny@]
[a saveir k@ s@ adjon~t@ la proteksy@ vertüð apostr@]

quae humiliter ad Domini misericordiam flagitabat, mereretur facilius obtinere.
[ke: öm~bl@t@r a donn@ miserkord@ fleyèv@, meriðr@ fatsily@s ot@ner]
[ke öm~bl@men~t fleyèv@ miserkord@ don, meris@ plüs fatsilmen~t la ot@nir]

Accedens ergo ad beati apostoli tumolum,
[aksiðes erk a beèð apostr@ töm~bl@]
[don~k @ksiðen~t a beèð töm~b@ apostr@]

depraecabatur auxilium bonitatis eius,
[dipreyav@ð@r oksely@ bon~tèð@s eys]
[dipreyèv@ð ayuð@ se@ bon~tèð]

in multa abstinentia, maximae inaedia se consumens,
[e~ mult@ ostinents@, maksim ineðy@ se ko~sumes]
[e~ mult@ ostinents@, se ko~sumen~t grand@ fèm]

ita ut bidui triduique sine ullo cibo putuque maneret,
[ið@ üð biðw@ triðwik@ se~ ul@ tsiw@ puðuk@ m@ner@]
[manyèr@ a m@ner se~ alkü~ nütremen~t e puð dows e treys djurn@s]

nec esset intervallum aliquod, in quo ab oratione cessaret.
[ney ess e~terval alk@, e~ k@ av oratsyo~ tsessar]
[e no~ seye alk@ e~terval, e~ k@ tsessast orar]

Cumque ibidem per multorum dierum spatia in tali adflictione moraretur,
[kön~k@ evið per multor djèr spatsy@ e~ tal afliksyo~ mur@reð@r]
[kom la per spatsy@ mults djurn@s mureð e~ tal afliksyo~]

fertur hoc a beato apostolo accepisse responsum:
[fert@r ok a beèð apostr@ aktsevis respon~s@]
[fert@r ke prist tsest@ respon~s@ per beèð apostr@]

'Quid me, vir sanctissime, inquietas?
[k@ mei, ber sein~tiss@m, en~kyèt@s]
[ber mult sein~t, k@ mei en~kyèt@s]

Ecce! enim apud Domini deliberationem prursus sanccitum est,
[ets! en av@ð Domn@ delivratsyo~ prurs@s sen~tsið est]
[ets! Est detsideð per delivratsyo~ Domn]

Chunos in Gallias advenire easque maxima tempestate debere depopulari.
[hü:ns e~ galy@s avenir yask@ masim@ ten~steð deveir depövlèr]
[k@ avyeny@n li hü:n e~ galy@s et k@ tsel@ deveir estr@ depövlèð@ e~ gran~d@ tem~pest@]

Nunc igitur sume consilium,
[nön~k i:ð@r süm konsely@]
[tön~k pren konsely@]

accelera velociter,
[akselèr@ b@lotstr@]
[akselèr@ rapið@]

ordena domum tuam,
[urdèn@ dom tü@]
[urdon@ tü@ meisyo~]

sepulturam conpone,
[seveltür@ kom~po~]
[kom~poz@ tü@ sevültür@]

require lentiamina munda!
[r@kyèr len~syamn@ mön~d@]
[r@kyèr len~sy@s propr@s]

Ecce! enim migraberis a corpore,
[ets! en migrèvr@s a korpr@]
[ets! tü migrèr èv@s de korps]

nec videbunt oculi tui mala,
[ney veðeyv@n oly@ tü@ mal@]
[e non veðer èv@n tü@ oly@ lu mal]

quae facturi sunt Chuni in Galliis,
[ke feytür son hü:n e~ galy@s]
[k@ feyr@ èv@n li hü:n e~ galy@s]

sicut locutus est dominus Deus noster'.
[si: luküts est domn@s djews nostr@]
[en~si: k@ don~s nostr@ djews dist]

Hoc a sancto apostolo pontifex responso suscepto,
[ok a sein~t apostr@ pon~tifis repon~s@ süstseft]
[el pontif avyen~t rets@vüð tsest@ repon~s@ del sein~t apostr@]

iter accelerat Galliasque velociter repetit,
[eð@r akselèr@ galyask@ b@lotstr@ repest]
[akselèr@ vei@ e rapið@ retchertch@ galy@s]

veniensque ad urbem Tungrorum,
[venye~sk@ að ürp tön~gror]
[e venien~t a tsiteð tön~gr@s]

quae erant necessaria sepulturae secum citius levat,
[ke ert netsessèr@ seveltür@ sey tsitsy@s lèv@]
[k@ ert netsessèr@ a seveltür@ lèv@ ko~ sey rapið@]

valedicensque clericis ac reliquis civibus urbis,
[valditse~sk@ klerts@s a relk@s tsiv@ ürv@s]
[dist val als klerks eð als altr@s tsiteðin~d]

denuntiat cum fletu et lamentatione,
[denön~ts@ ko fleð e l@mentatsyo~]
[enön~ts@ kom~ plours e l@mentatsyo~]

quia non visuri essent ultra faciem illius.
[key@ no vezür ess@n öltr@ fatsy@ ley@s]
[k@ no veðer èv@n öltr@ sü@ fats]

At ille cum heiulato magno et lacrimis prosequentes supplecabant humili praece, dicentes:
[að il ko eylèð many e larm@s prusewen~t@s supleyèv@n öm~bl@ prey, ditsents]
[meis il ko many l@mentatsyo~ a larm@s supleyèv@n öm~bl@ preyèr@, ditsents]

'Ne derelinquas nos, pater sanctae, ne obliviscaris nostri, pastor bonae!'
[nei derelink@s nu:s, pèð@r sein~t, ne uvliskèr@s nostr@, pastr@ bo~]
[no leish@ nu:s, pèð@r sein~t, no uvli@ nu:s, pastr@ bo~]

Sed cum eum fletibus revocare non possent,
[seð ko~ yo fleð@v@s revokar no~ poss@n]
[meis kan~t lu no poss@n revokar ko~ plours]

accepta benedictione cum osculis, redierunt.
[aktset@ ben~ditsyo~ ko~ oskl@s, reyèr@n]
[aktsetèr@n la ben~ditsyo~ ko~ beis@s e reyèr@n]

Hic vero ad Treiectinsem urbem accedens,
[i: ver a treyeðe~s ürp aktseðe~s]
[meis il aktseð a la tsiteð trey@]

modica pulsatus febre,
[moð@y@ pusseð@s fyèvr@]
[pusseð@ fyèvr@ p@tit@]

recessit a corpore,
[retsest a korpr@]
[retsest de korps]

ablutusque a fidelibus,
[avluðusk@ a fiðyèl@v@s]
[laveð@s per fiðyèl@s]

iuxta ipsum agerem publicum est sepultus.
[yust@ iss eir@ püvlik@ est sevülð@s]
[yust@ meðesm@ tchamp püvlik@ est sev@lið@s]

Cuius beatum corpus qualiter post multorum temporum spatia sit translatum, in libro Miraculorum scripsimus.
[kuy@s beyeð korps kèl@ð@r pos multor tempr@ spatsy@ seð traslèð, e~ livr@ mireilor eskrism@s]
[de kel el beyeð korps kom@ pos mults ten~s spatsy@ sei@ traslèð, eskrism@s e~ lu livr@ mireil@s]

Was Luther the First to Use Standard Hochdeutsch as Language of a Bible Translation?

Since I have been on the internet, which happened c. 23 years ago, early 2001, I have more than once been challenged by Protestants on Catholicism supposedly banning Bible translations to the vernacular. I have also more than once referred to the fact I was reading in Konvertitenkatechismus, 1950, by the Jesuits of Paderborn. Before Luther's translation there were already 18 German translations* in print, 14 in "Hochdeutsch" and 4 in "Niederdeutsch".

Sometimes this fact has been acknowledged even by Protestant adversaries. "Yes," they will say, "the Catholics did translate, but only into very narrow dialects that hardly anyone understands."

They will give a quote from a Bavarian or Alsatian translation from prior to Luther, and then the same passage in Luther's Bible. Unless you yourself speak the dialect in question, you are guaranteed to understand Luther's Bible better.

I have then tried to explain something to them. This time, I'm documenting it. Please, keep in mind, the Middle Ages in Germany officially ended on the 30 October 1517, just shortly before Luther translated his Bible, on the day when he nailed the 95 Theses. That's how central, for good or for ill, Luther is to German history.

6:05 — 6:33
Im Mittelalter gab es keine allgemeingültige, geschriebene, deutsche Standardsprache, sondern nur sogenannte Schreibsprachen, die in einem größeren aber regional begrenzten Dialektgebiet, wie dem Bayrischen, dem Alemanischen, dem Mitteldeutschen in Gebrauch waren. Die Bestimmung der Schreibsprache einer Handschrift bietet ein hervorragendes Mittel deren Entstehungsgeschichte einzugrenzen.

Mittelalterliche Handschriften mit dem Leipziger Handschriftenzentrum verstehen lernen
Universitätsbibliothek Leipzig | 5. Sept. 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkDNHIpNgts

I translate:

In the Middle Ages, there was no universal, written, German standard language, but instead only so called Schreibsprachen ["writing languages"], which were in use in a larger, but regionally limited Dialect area, like the Bavarian, the Alemannic, the Middle German ones. To determine the Schreibsprache of a Manuscript allows us an excellent means for circumscribing its history of composition.

This was still the case. Luther was not using an already extant German standard language, which everyone in all of Germany had learned in school, just that no one had made a Bible translation to it yet, Luther was using one among several other Schreibsprachen.

We can note that since the Thirty Years War brought Protestants from the North and Catholics from the South in very intense contact with each other (on the battlefield, in mutual prisoners of war exchanges, etc, etc), the German language tended to unify. This war started in 1618, 101 years minus a few months after the theses. Part of the unification was taken care of by the North already having a unified language through the Luther Bible. So, the modern German standard language certainly is daughter to Luther's German to some extent, but it's not ancestor of it. The other contributors do include Martin Opitz, born in Bolesławiec or Bunzlau, far closer to Breslau (present-day Wrocław) than to Wittenberg, a Lutheran, Angelus Silesius, born in Breslau itself, a Catholic, Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen, born in Gelnhausen, in Hesse, who worked as a regiment secretary during the war, and who before writing his ultrafamous novel Simplicius Simplicissimus (something like a mixture of Don Quixote, Gargantua, and Candide) had also resided in Strassburg and in the Black Forest / Renchen / Baden-Würtenberg. So, Luther's dialect area is basically in for about half of the influences, and the other ones are on opposite sides of it. The result is closer to Luther's German than to Bavarian prior to Luther or Alsatian prior to Luther. That's why Luther's Bible seems so much more comprehensible now than the ones I have seen quoted on such occasions.

But this was not exactly the case for everyone back then.

Luther himself claimed that the Saxon Chancery had a Schreibsprache which was understood by all Germans. Well, some language pairs are assymetric in mutual comprehension, it is possible that back then a Bavarian would have been better off reading Luther's German, than a Saxon reading Bavarian written German. Luther's claim is not totally beyond the possible. But it was also not an obvious truth that everyone back then would have immediately realised when he started reading and writing, even before Luther made the claim. By now, we are no longer in a position to test the claim.

But distorting his claim into the proposition that everyone was able to read Goethe and Schiller, had they existed, but for some quirky reason Catholic clergy preferred to translate only for obscure dialect areas and leave most Germans out of a Bible of their own is just not true. It is as said possible that a Bavarian would have had an easier time reading Genesis 11:1 through 9** in Luther's Bible, than a Wittenberger reading it in an already extant Bavarian Bible. It is however certain that a Wittenberger would have understood it better in Luther's Bible, and a Bavarian better in a Bavarian Bible.

The English clergy's relation to Lollards and to Bible translations, as we have it reported from accounts of the Coventry trials, is absolutely an English thing, Germany had no Catholic problem with the vernacular, and the Catholic backlash Luther faced was not for a German translation, but for his German translation and specific translation choices. My first doubt about Luther's integrity as a Christian theologian actually came when reading his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, or extracts of it, in a German anthology for secondary education. In that sense, Luther not only made me a speaker of German (a language which would not have existed as it does without him), but also a Roman Catholic.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Quinquagesima L.D.
11.II.2024

* See also:

"Deutschsprachige Bibeln vor Luther? Diese erstaunte Frage ist häufig zu hören, gilt doch der Reformator weithin als der Übersetzer der Bibel ins Deutsche. Doch bereits vor Luther wurden 18 deutsche Bibelausgaben gedruckt. Elf Jahre nach dem Erscheinen der Gutenberg-Bibel entstand 1466 mit der Mentelin-Bibel in Straßburg das Erste dieser Kleinode der frühen Buchdruckerkunst. Bis 1522 wurden Bibeln in Augsburg, Nürnberg, Köln, Straßburg, Lübeck und Halberstadt hergestellt. Sie fanden ihren Markt beim aufstrebenden Bürgertum der Städte, aber auch die große Zahl der »Leutpriester« brauchte Bibeln in der Volkssprache, denn Latein verstanden diese in der Regel nicht."

** I take a theologically neutral text as an example, the first mistranslation of it is in Charles XII's Bible, in which they removed "in the East" instead of "from the East" and it's only recently come to relevance.

Barbara von Cilli and / und 134 Daughters / Töchter

Age at first marriage / Alter bei der ersten Heirat.

I Barbara of Cilli or Barbara of Celje (Hungarian: Cillei Borbála, German: Barbara von Cilli, Slovenian and Croatian: Barbara Celjska, 1392 – 11 July 1451), was the Holy Roman Empress and Queen of Hungary and Bohemia by marriage to Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund. She was actively involved in politics and economy of her times, independently administering large feudal fiefdoms and taxes, and was instrumental in creating the famous royal Order of the Dragon. She served as the regent of Hungarian kingdom in the absence of her husband four times: in 1412, 1414, 1416, and 1418.

Biography

Barbara was born in Celje, in the Duchy of Styria (today Slovenia), as the daughter and youngest child of Herman II, Count of Celje, and Countess Anna of Schaunberg.

Barbara was engaged in 1405 to Sigismund of Bohemia, King of Hungary, a younger son of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor. The marriage likely took place in December 1405.

II Elizabeth of Luxembourg (Hungarian: Luxemburgi Erzsébet; 7 October 1409 – 19 December 1442) was queen consort of Hungary, queen consort of Germany and Bohemia.
In 1422 Albert married Elisabeth of Luxemburg, the daughter and heiress of the King Sigismund of Hungary (later also Holy Roman Emperor and King of Bohemia), and his second wife, the Slovenian noblewoman Barbara of Celje.

III a Anne of Bohemia and Austria (12 April 1432 – 13 November 1462) was a Duchess of Luxembourg in her own right and, as a consort, Landgravine of Thuringia and of Saxony.
On 2 June 1446 the young Anne was married to William "the Brave" of Saxony (1425–82), Landgrave of Thuringia, a younger son of Frederick I "the Warlike" of Saxony.

IV a Margaret of Thuringia (1449 – 13 July 1501), who married John II, Elector of Brandenburg, and whose direct main heirs have been Electors of Brandenburg, then Kings of Prussia, and then German Emperors.
On 15 August 1476, in Berlin, she married John Cicero, Elector of Brandenburg.

V a Anna (27 August 1487, Berlin–3 May 1514, Kiel), married 10 April 1502 to the future King Frederick I of Denmark (she was never queen consort, since she died before her husband's accession).

VI a Dorothea of Denmark (1 August 1504 – 11 April 1547), was a Duchess of Prussia by marriage to Duke Albert, Duke of Prussia. She was the daughter of King Frederick I of Denmark and Anna of Brandenburg.
In 1525, she received a proposal from the newly made Duke of Prussia. The marriage was arranged by her father's German chancellor Wolfgang von Utenhof. The wedding was conducted 12 February 1526 and Dorothea arrived with a large entourage in Königsberg in June.

VII a Anna Sophia (11 June 1527 – 6 February 1591), married John Albert I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Güstrow.
She married on 24 February 1555 in Wismar to Duke John Albert I of Mecklenburg (1525-1576). EOL

V b Ursula (17 October 1488–18 September 1510, Güstrow), married 16 February 1507 to Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg.

VI b Sophia of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1508–1541), married Ernest I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg
Ernest married Sophia, daughter of Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg and Ursula of Brandenburg, on 2 June 1528 in Schwerin.

VII b Margarete (1534–1596), ⚭ 1559 Graf Johann von Mansfeld-Hinterort

VII c Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (* 1539; † 3. September 1586 in Detmold) war eine Tochter des Herzogs Ernst I. von Braunschweig-Lüneburg und dessen Frau Sophie von Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Als Ehefrau Ottos IV. wurde sie Gräfin von Schaumburg.
Am 5. Juni 1558 heiratete sie in Celle Otto IV. von Schaumburg, dessen erste Frau Maria von Pommern-Stettin 1554 gestorben war.

VIII a Maria (1559–1616, verheiratet mit Jobst von Limburg-Styrum)
Jobst heiratete am 2. März 1591 in Detmold Gräfin Maria von Schauenburg und Holstein-Pinneberg (* 14. Oktober 1559; † 3. Oktoberjul. / 13. Oktober 1616greg. auf Kasteel de Wildenborch), Erbin der Herrschaft Gemen und Tochter von Otto IV. von Holstein-Schaumburg und Elisabeth Ursula von Braunschweig-Lüneburg,

IX a Anna Sophia (* 21. März 1602 auf Kasteel de Wildenborch; † 9. September 1669 ebenda), Stiftsdame in Essen und Pröpstin in Rellinghausen
⚭ 1623 Johann von Morrien zu Nordkirchen (* 2. Dezember 1597; † 30. März 1628)
⚭ 1630 Johann Melchior von Dombroick (* um 1600; † 1658)

VIII b Elisabeth (1566–1638, verheiratet mit Simon zur Lippe)
Simon VI. war seit 1578 mit Armgard von Rietberg († 13. Juli 1584) verheiratet. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. 1585 ging er eine weitere Ehe mit der Gräfin Elisabeth zu Holstein-Schaumburg ein, einer Tochter Ottos IV., Graf von Schaumburg und Holstein-Pinneberg, und Elisabeth Ursulas von Braunschweig-Lüneburg.

IX b Elisabeth (1592–1646) ⚭ 1612 Graf Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg
Elisabeth zur Lippe (* 9. Juli 1592; † 19. Juni 1646) war gewählte Äbtissin im Stift Freckenhorst. Wegen der widrigen Verhältnisse übte sie ihr Amt aber nicht aus. Ab 1612 wurde sie durch Heirat zur Gräfin von Holstein-Schaumburg.
Am 12. September 1612 heiratete Elisabeth auf Schloss Brake den Grafen Georg Hermann von Holstein-Schaumburg (1577–1616) aus der Gemener Line. EOL

IX c Ursula (1598–1638) ⚭ 1617 Graf Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar
Ursula zur Lippe (* 15. Februar 1598 auf Schloss Brake in Lemgo; † 27. Juli 1638 in Hadamar) war durch Heirat Gräfin von Nassau-Hadamar.
Am 26. August 1617 heiratete sie in Detmold den Grafen Johann Ludwig von Nassau-Hadamar, mit dem sie 21 Jahre lang verheiratet war.

X a Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar (* 17. Januar 1619 in Dillenburg; † 2. März 1647 in Harzgerode) war Gemahlin von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode und damit Fürstin von Anhalt-Bernburg-Harzgerode.
Die Hochzeit erfolgte am 10. August 1642 in Bückeburg.

XI a Elisabeth Charlotte von Anhalt-Harzgerode (* 11. Februar 1647 in Harzgerode; † 20. Januar 1723 in Schloss Østerholm auf Alsen) war durch Heirat zunächst Fürstin von Anhalt-Köthen und dann Herzogin von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.
Sie war die Tochter von Fürst Friedrich von Anhalt-Harzgerode und dessen erster Frau Johanna Elisabeth von Nassau-Hadamar. Sie war zunächst seit 1663 verheiratet mit Wilhelm Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen, wurde 1665 Witwe und heiratete 1666 August von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.

XII a Dorothea Johanna (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727) ⚭ Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg (1670–1724)
[Fürst Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg] verheiratete sich am 13. Januar 1699 in Harzgerode mir Prinzessin Dorothea Johanna von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (* 24. Dezember 1676; † 29. November 1727), einer Tochter von Herzog August EOL

X b Sophia Magdalena (1622–1658), ⚭ Fürst Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg (1594–1662)
Sofie Magdalena von Nassau-Dillenburg (* 6. Februar 1622 in Hadamar; † 28. Juni 1658 in Dillenburg) war durch Heirat Fürstin von Nassau-Dillenburg.
1656 heiratete sie ihren Cousin, den 1652 gefürsteten Ludwig Heinrich von Nassau-Dillenburg. Der Ehe, des Fürsten dritter,[1] entstammten die Kinder August (1657–1680), Karl (1658–1659) und Ludwig (1658–1658).[2] Sie starb kurz nach der Geburt der Zwillinge Karl und Ludwig. EOL

IX d Sophie (1599–1653) ⚭ 1626 Fürst Ludwig von Anhalt-Köthen
Am 8. September 1625 starb Amoena Amalia im Alter von 39 Jahren. Nach Ablauf des obligaten Trauerjahres heiratete Fürst Ludwig am 12. September 1626 Sophie, Tochter von Graf Simon VI. zur Lippe. Mit ihr hatte er ebenfalls einen Sohn, Fürst Wilhelm Ludwig. EOL

IV b Katharina of Thuringia (1453 – 10 July 1534), who married Duke Henry II of Münsterberg and who has surviving descendants, mainly among Bohemian high nobility.
In 1471, Henry the Younger married Catherine, the daughter of William III, Landgrave of Thuringia.

V c Henry had a daughter Anna (1471–1517), who married in 1493 with Henry IV of Neuhaus.
Henry's first marriage was with Elizabeth of Sternberg; his second wife was Agnes of Cimburg (d. 1485). His third marriage was with Magdalena of Gleichen, and after her death in 1492, he married Anna of Poděbrady, the daughter of Duke Henry the Younger Münsterberg-Oels

VI c Anna († 1570), verheiratet in erster Ehe mit Hynek Boček von Kunstadt († 1518); in zweiter Ehe mit Ladislav von Sternberg auf Bechyně († 1521) und in dritter Ehe mit Heinrich VII. von Rosenberg (1496–1526) EOL

III b Elizabeth of Austria (German: Elisabeth von Habsburg; Polish: Elżbieta Rakuszanka; Lithuanian: Elžbieta Habsburgaitė; c. 1436 – 30 August 1505) was Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania as the wife of King Casimir IV of Poland.
In August 1452, preparing for the Thirteen Years' War (1454–66) with the Teutonic Knights, the Poles sent an embassy to Vienna to once again negotiate marriage between Elisabeth and now-king Casimir IV of Poland.[13] Ulrich II, Count of Celje, who now had custody of Elisabeth, received the proposal favorably and sent two of his men to Poland. The formal wedding agreement was reached in August 1453 in Wrocław in the presence of Polish and Austrian nobles.
Elisabeth arrived to Poland in February 1454 with a retinue of nine hundred riders.[14] Reportedly, Casimir was informed that Elisabeth was not an attractive lady and was reconsidering the marriage, but bowed to the pressure of his court.[19] On February 9, Elisabeth arrived at Kraków and was met by Casimir and his mother Sophia of Halshany. The next day, 18-year-old Elisabeth married 27-year-old Casimir and was crowned Queen of Poland. [Or 17 year old, if born later in 1436 than early February]

IV c Hedwig Jagiellon (Polish: Jadwiga Jagiellonka, Lithuanian: Jadvyga Jogailaitė, German: Hedwig Jagiellonica; 21 September 1457 – 18 February 1502), baptized as "Hedwigis", was a Polish princess and member of the Jagiellonian dynasty, as well as Duchess of Bavaria by marriage.
Matthias Corvinus asked the hand of Hedwig again in July 1471 and in September 1473 until finally, a definitive refusal was made by Queen Elizabeth. At the beginning of 1473, two counselors sent by Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria-Munich arrived in Poland with a marriage proposal; however, Casimir IV refused the offer because at that time, he was already negotiating a marriage between his eldest daughter and George, son and heir of Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut.
Hedwig arrived with her family in Poznań, where on 10 October 1475, she said goodbye to them. With a large retinue of approximately 1,200 knights, she arrived in Wittenberg on 23 October. She was accompanied, among others, by Anna, widow of Bolesław II, Duke of Cieszyn.
On 14 November 1475, Hedwig and her retinue finally arrived in Landshut, an event which inspired the famous medieval pageant Landshut Wedding. The wedding ceremony took place that day at St. Martin's Church, with the service being officiated by Bernhard von Rohr, Archbishop of Salzburg.

V d Elisabeth of Bavaria-Landshut (1478 – 15 September 1504), married on 10 February 1499 to Rupert, Count Palatine of the Rhine. EOL 27)

IV d Sophia (6 May 1464 – 5 October 1512), married on 14 February 1479 to Frederick I, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach. ///

V e Sophia of Brandenburg-Ansbach (10 March 1485 – 24 May 1537), married on 14 November 1518 to Duke Frederick II of Legnica.

VI d Sophie (1525–1546)
married in 1545 Elector John George of Brandenburg (1525-1598) EOL 5)

V f Anna of Brandenburg-Ansbach (5 May 1487 – 7 February 1539), married on 1 December 1518 to Duke Wenceslaus II of Cieszyn. EOL

V g Elisabeth of Brandenburg-Ansbach (25 March 1494 – 31 May 1518), married on 29 September 1510 to Margrave Ernest of Baden-Durlach. 3)

VI e Anna (April 1512 – after 1579) married on 11 February 1537 to Count Charles I of Hohenzollern (1516 – 8 March 1576) EOL

VI f Amalie (February 1513; died 1594) married in 1561 to Count Frederick II of Löwenstein (22 August 1528 – 5 June 1569) EOL

VI g Maria Jacobea (October 1514; died: 1592) married in February 1577 to Count Wolfgang II of Barby (11 December 1531 – 23 March 1615) EOL

VI h Marie Cleopha (September 1515 – 28 April 1580) married in 1548 to Count William of Schultz (died circa 1566) EOL

VI i Elizabeth (20 May 1516; died: 9 May 1568), married:
in 1533 to Count Gabriel von Salamanca-Ortenburg (died: December 1539) EOL
on 30 July 1543 to Count Conrad II of Castell (10 July 1519 – 8 July 1577)

V h Barbara of Brandenburg-Ansbach (24 September 1495 – 23 September 1552), married on 26 July 1528 to Landgrave George III of Leuchtenberg.

VI j Elisabeth (1537/8-1579)
married in 1559 to Count John VI of Nassau-Dillenburg (1536-1606)

VII d Elisabeth (1564-1611), married in 1583 with Philip IV, Count of Nassau-Weilburg and in 1603 with Wolfgang Ernst I of Isenburg-Büdingen-Birstein, EOL

VII e Maria (1568-1625), married John Louis I of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein,
Maria married John Louis I, Count of Nassau-Wiesbaden-Idstein in 1588

VIII c Margaretha (1589-1660), married in 1606 to Adolph of Bentheim

VIII d Anna Catharina (1590-1622), married in 1607 to Count Simon VII "the Pious" of Lippe

IX e Mary Elizabeth (1611-1667) married in 1649 to Count Christian Frederick of Mansfeld-Hinterort (1615-1666)

IX f Anna Catherine (1612-1659) married in Prince Frederick von Anhalt-Harzgerode (1613-1670)
In Bückeburg on 10 August 1642 Frederick married Johanna Elisabeth (b. Dillenburg, 7 January 1619 – d. Harzgerode, 2 March 1647), daughter of John Louis, Prince of Nassau-Hadamar.

X c Elisabeth Charlotte (b. Harzgerode, 11 February 1647 – d. Osterholm, 20 January 1723), married on 25 August 1663 to William Louis, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen, then for a second time on 6 October 1666 to Augustus, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg.

XI b Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), married Prince William II of Nassau-Dillenburg (1670-1724)
He married on 13 January 1699 in Harzgerode to Johanna Dorothea (24 December 1676 – 29 November 1727), the daughter of Duke Augustus of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön-Norburg. EOL

IV e Anna (12 March 1476 – 12 August 1503), married on 2 February 1491 to Bogislaw X, Duke of Pomerania

V i Anna of Pomerania (1492 – 25 April 1550), married on 9 June 1516 to Duke George I of Brieg. EOL

V j Sophie of Pomerania (1498 – 13 May 1568), married on 9 October 1518 to Frederick, Duke of Holstein-Schleswig, who became King Frederick I of Denmark in 1523.

VI k Elizabeth (14 October 1524 – 15 October 1586), married:
on 26 August 1543 to Duke Magnus III of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
on 14 February 1556 to Ulrich, Duke of Mecklenburg

VII f Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (Sophia; 4 September 1557 – 14 October 1631) was Queen of Denmark and Norway by marriage to Frederick II of Denmark. She was the mother of King Christian IV of Denmark and Anne of Denmark. She was Regent of Schleswig-Holstein from 1590 to 1594.[1]
At the age of fourteen Sophie, on 20 July 1572, married Frederick II of Denmark in Copenhagen; he was thirty-eight. She was crowned the following day.[17]

VIII e Elisabeth of Denmark (25 August 1573 – 19 July 1625) was duchess consort of Brunswick-Lüneburg as married to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg. She was regent of the Duchy of Brunswick-Lüneburg in place of her incapacitated son Frederick Ulrich, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg in 1616–1622.
She was married on 19 April 1590 at Kronborg Castle to Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Lüneburg.

IX g Sophia Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (20 February 1592 – 23 January 1642), married Ernest Casimir, Prince of Nassau-Dietz
On 8 June 1607, Sophie Hedwig married Count Ernest Casimir I of Nassau-Dietz (1573–1632). EOL

IX h Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (23 June 1593 – 25 March 1650), married Augustus, Duke of Saxony, and John Philip, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg
Elisabeth married first on 1 January 1612 in Dresden, to Duke August of Saxony (1589–1615), the administrator of the diocese of Naumburg. August suddenly died at the age of 26, after only three years of marriage.
From her second marriage, Elisabeth had only one surviving daughter

X d Elisabeth Sophie of Saxe-Altenburg (10 October 1619 – 20 December 1680), was a princess of Saxe-Altenburg and, by marriage, duchess of Saxe-Gotha.
In Altenburg on 24 October 1636, Elisabeth Sophie married her kinsman Ernst I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha. As a dowry, she received 20,000 guilders, who were pledged by the town of Roßla. As Widow's seat, the bride obtained the towns of Kapellendorf and Berka, with the latter called Gartenhaus in Weimar.

XI c Elisabeth Dorothea (b. Coburg, 8 January 1640 – d. Butzbach, 24 August 1709), married on 5 December 1666 to Louis VI, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.

XII b Sophie Luise (1670–1758)
⚭ 1688 Fürst Albrecht Ernst II. von Oettingen-Oettingen (1669–1731)

XIII a Die einzige Tochter Elisabeth Friederike (1691–1758) heiratete 1713 Karl Ludwig Graf zu Hohenlohe-Neuenstein-Gleichen (Hohenlohe-Weikersheim; 1674–1756), 1726–1729 Direktor des Fränkischen Reichsgrafenkollegiums,[4] Sohn des Grafen Johann Friedrich von Hohenlohe, der ein Enkel des Wolfgang II. von Hohenlohe war, und der Luise Amöne, einer Tochter des Herzogs Friedrich von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Norburg.[5] EOL

XII c Elisabeth Dorothea (1676–1721)
⚭ 1700 Landgraf Friedrich III. Jakob von Hessen-Homburg (1673–1746) EOL

IX i Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 February 1595 – 26 June 1650), married Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania
Hedwig married on 7 February 1619 in Wolfenbüttel to Ulrich, Duke of Pomerania (1589–1622), Bishop of Cammin. The wedding feast was very costly; it was attended by 16 ruling princes. The marriage lasted only three years and remained childless. EOL

IX j Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (8 July 1596 – 1 September 1643), married Christian William of Brandenburg, son of Joachim III Frederick, Elector of Brandenburg
His first wedding took place on 1 January 1615 in Wolfenbüttel, where he married Dorothea (1596-1643), a daughter of the Duke Henry Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel.

X e Sophie Elisabeth of Brandenburg (1 February 1616 at Moritzburg Castle in Halle – 16 March 1650 at Altenburg Castle) was a Princess of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage Duchess of Saxe-Altenburg.
She married on 18 September 1638 in Altenburg to Duke Frederick William II of Saxe-Altenburg (1603-1669). The marriage was described as a happy one; however, it remained childless. EOL

IX k Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (19 May 1612 – 17 February 1673), married George Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg
George Louis married on 19 February 1638 in Coppenbrügge to Princess Anna Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1612–1673),[2] the daughter of Henry Julius, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel and Elizabeth of Denmark

X f Elisabeth Charlotte (1643–1686), married to Count Ferdinand Gobert von Aspremont-Lynden
In 1680, Ferdinand Gobert was firstly married Princess Charlotte von Nassau-Dillenburg (1643–1686), daughter of George Louis, Prince of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL

VIII f Anne of Denmark (Danish: Anna; 12 December 1574 – 2 March 1619) was the wife of King James VI and I; as such, she was Queen of Scotland from their marriage on 20 August 1589 and Queen of England and Ireland from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until her death in 1619.[1]

IX l Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia (19 August 1596 – 13 February 1662). Married 1613, Frederick V, Elector Palatine. Died aged 65.
Elizabeth was born at Dunfermline Palace, Fife, on 19 August 1596 at 2 o'clock in the morning.
The wedding took place on 14 February 1613 at the royal chapel at the Palace of Whitehall and was a grand occasion that saw more royalty than ever visit the court of England.

X g Henriette Marie of the Palatinate (7 July 1626 – 18 September 1651); married Prince Sigismund Rákóczi, brother of George II Rákóczi, Prince of Transylvania, on 16 June 1651 EOL

X h Sophia, Electress of Hanover (14 October 1630 – 8 June 1714); married Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover, had issue, including King George I of Great Britain. Many other royal families are Sophia's, and therefore, Elizabeth's, descendants. Sophia came close to ascending to the British throne, but died two months before Queen Anne.
On 30 September 1658, she married Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg, at Heidelberg, who in 1692 became the first Elector of Hanover.

XI d Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (30 October 1668 – 1 February 1705) was the first Queen consort in Prussia as wife of King Frederick I. She was the only daughter of Elector Ernest Augustus of Hanover and his wife Sophia of the Palatinate. Her eldest brother, George Louis, succeeded to the British throne in 1714 as King George I.
By marrying Frederick on 8 October 1684, she became Electress of Brandenburg in 1688, and after the elevation of Brandenburg-Prussia to a kingdom in 1701, she became the first Queen in Prussia. EOL

VIII g Princess Augusta of Denmark (8 April 1580 – 5 February 1639) was the Duchess of Holstein-Gottorp as the wife of Duke John Adolf. She was the third daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophia of Mecklenburg-Güstrow. She was politically influential during the reign of her son, Duke Frederick III.
She was married on 30 August 1596 in Copenhagen to her parents' cousin Duke John Adolf of Holstein-Gottorp (1575–1616) and had eight children.

IX m Elisabeth Sofie (12 October 1599 – 25 November 1627), married on 5 March 1621 to Duke Augustus of Saxe-Lauenburg.

X i Anna Elisabeth (23 August 1624 – 27 May 1688, Philippseck Castle in today's Butzbach), married on 2 April 1665 in Lübeck, divorced in 1672, William Christoph, Landgrave of Hesse-Homburg EOL

X j Sibylle Hedwig (30 July 1625 – 1 August 1703, Ratzeburg), married in 1654 her half-cousin Francis Erdmann, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg

IX n Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682), married in 1633 to Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön, son of John II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg.
Dorothea Augusta of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp (12 May 1602 – 13 March 1682) was a German noblewoman from the House of (Schleswig-)Holstein-Gottorp, a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg. She became the first Duchess of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön[1] as the wife of Duke Joachim Ernest (1595–1671).
In 1633, she married Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön.

X k Duchess Agnes Hedwig of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (29 September 1640 – 20 November 1698), who married Christian, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg and had issue

X l Duchess Sophia Eleonora of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (30 July 1644 – 22 January 1689), who married Wolfgang Julius, Count of Hohenlohe-Neuenstein and had no issue
He married twice. On 25 August 1666 he married Sophie Eleanor of Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1 August 1644, Plön – 22 January 1689, Neuenstein), daughter of Joachim Ernest, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Plön (1622–1671). EOL

IX o Hedwig (23 December 1603 – 22 March 1657), married on 15 July 1620 to Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach.

X m Augusta Sophie (22 November 1624 – 30 April 1682), married Václav Eusebius František, Prince of Lobkowicz
His second marriage was on 6 February 1653 with Auguste Sophie von Pfalz-Sulzbach (1624–1682), daughter of Duke Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach. EOL

VIII h Princess Hedwig of Denmark (5 August 1581 – 26 November 1641) was the youngest daughter of King Frederick II of Denmark and Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow, and Electress of Saxony from 1602 to 1611 as the wife of Christian II. The marriage was childless, and her husband was succeeded by his brother John George. After Christian's death in 1611, the Dowager Electress Hedwig held a powerful position in Saxony.
She was married on 12 September 1602 to Christian II, Elector of Saxony, her first cousin once removed, in Dresden. EOL

VI l Dorothea (1528 – 11 November 1575), married on 27 October 1573 to Duke Christof of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL

IV f Barbara (15 July 1478 – 15 February 1534), married on 21 November 1496 to George, Duke of Saxony

+ her sister:
IV g Elizabeth (13 November 1482 – 16 February 1517), married on 25 November 1515 to Frederick II, Duke of Legnica EOL

V k Christine of Saxony (25 December 1505 – 15 April 1549); married on 11 December 1523 to Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.

VI m Agnes (31 May 1527 – 4 November 1555), married:
in Marburg on 9 January 1541 to Maurice, Elector of Saxony;
in Weimar on 26 May 1555 to John Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha.

VII g Anna of Saxony (23 December 1544 – 18 December 1577) was the heiress of Maurice, Elector of Saxony, and Agnes, eldest daughter of Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse.
On 2 June 1561 the marriage contract was signed in Torgau. Anna's dowry would be the large sum of 100,000 thalers. The wedding took place on 24 August 1561 in Leipzig. On 1 September 1561 William of Orange, along with his young wife, relocated to the Netherlands.

VIII i Anna (Breda, 5 November 1563 – Franeker, 13 June 1588), married on 25 November 1587 to William Louis, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg. EOL

VIII j Emilia (Köln, 10 April 1569 – Geneva, 6 March 1629), married on 7 November 1597 to Manuel of Portugal.

IX p Maria Belgica of Portugal (born before 12 October 1598[2] – 28 July 1647), married in June 1629 to Colonel Theodor Croll (died 1640 in Venice [murdered]), Quartermaster general of Duke Odoardo Farnese, Duke of Parma.

X n Emilia Catharina Croll, married Claude d'Amond in 1653 and had a daughter, Juliana Catharina.
X o Anna Rosine Croll, married Jean des Vignes, head of the court of Genoiller in 1653. They had two sons.
X p Susanne Sidonia Croll, married 1) Jean François Badel and 2) Vincent Ardin. She had children from both marriages.

IX Mauritia Eleonora of Portugal (born before 10 May 1609[2] – 25 June 1674), married to Count George Frederick of Nassau-Siegen on 4 June 1647 in The Hague, no children. EOL

VI n Anna (26 October 1529 – 10 July 1591), married on 24 February 1544 to Wolfgang, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken.

VII h Barbara (1559–1618)
married in 1591 Count Gottfried of Oettingen-Oettingen (1554–1622) EOL

VII i Maria Elisabeth (1561–1629)
married in 1585 Count Emich XII of Leiningen-Dagsburg-Hardenburg (1562–1607)

VI o Barbara (8 April 1536 – 8 June 1597), married:
in Reichenweier on 10 September 1555 to Duke George I of Württemberg-Mömpelgard;
in Kassel on 11 November 1568 to Count Daniel of Waldeck. EOL

VI p Elisabeth (13 February 1539 – 14 March 1582), married on 8 July 1560 to Louis VI, Elector Palatine.

VII j Anna Marie (1561–1589), married Charles IX of Sweden
Maria of the Palatinate (24 July 1561 – 29 July 1589), also known as Anna Maria, was a Swedish princess and Duchess of Södermanland by marriage, the first spouse of the future King Charles IX of Sweden. She died before he became king.
The wedding took place in Heidelberg 11 May 1579. Afterwards, she followed him to Sweden, where they resided in his Duchy in Södermanland. They left Germany in July, and in September 1579, Maria received the oath of loyalty from the subjects in her dower lands Gripsholm, Tynnelsö and Rävsnäs estates, Strängnäs city with the parishes Åkers, Selebo and Daga as well as Överenhörna and Ytterenhörna.

VII k Catherine of Sweden (Swedish: Katarina; 10 November 1584 – 13 December 1638) was a Swedish princess and a Countess Palatine of Zweibrücken as the consort of her second cousin John Casimir of Palatinate-Zweibrücken.
She is known as the periodical foster-mother of Queen Christina of Sweden and the mother of Charles X of Sweden.
The marriage took place on 11 June 1615 in Stockholm.

VIII k Christina Magdalena (27 May 1616 - 14 August 1662); married Frederick VI, Margrave of Baden-Durlach. King Adolf Frederick of Sweden was her great-grandson.
The wedding, held in Stockholm, was postponed until 30 November 1642 after a fire broke out at the ball before their designated wedding date on 26 November.

IX q Christine (1645–1705)
∞ 1. 1665 Albert II, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach (1620–1667)
∞ 2. 1681 Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646–1691)
Christine von Baden-Durlach (* 22. April 1645; † 21. Dezember 1705) war durch Heirat Markgräfin von Ansbach sowie später Herzogin von Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg.
Seine dritte Ehe schloss er am 6. August 1665 in Durlach mit Christine (1645–1705), Tochter des Markgrafen Friedrich VI. von Baden-Durlach. Diese Ehe blieb kinderlos. EOL

IX r Johanna Elizabeth of Baden-Durlach (born: 6 November 1651; died: 28 September 1680), married on 26 January 1673 the Margrave John Frederick of Brandenburg-Ansbach (born: 4 October 1654; died: 22 March 1686) (→ Ancestors of the Swedish kings of the House of Bernadotte, by Charles XV of Sweden's and Oscar II's mother, Josephine of Leuchtenberg, as was their daughter's daughter was her granddaughter)

X q Margravine Dorothea Friederike of Brandenburg-Ansbach (12 August 1676 – 13 March 1731) married Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg and had issue, including Charlotte of Hanau, wife of Louis VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt.
On 20 (or 30) August 1699, Dorothea Friederike married Count Johann Reinhard III of Hanau-Lichtenberg.

XI e Countess Charlotte of Hanau-Lichtenberg, full name: Countess Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau-Lichtenberg (2 May 1700, Bouxwiller – 1 July 1726, Darmstadt) was the wife of landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt.
The second candidate was the crown prince and later Landgrave Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt, who was Lutheran. They were married on 5 April 1717.

XII d Princess Caroline Louise of Hesse-Darmstadt (11 July 1723 – 8 April 1783), was a consort of Baden, a dilettante artist, scientist, collector and salonist.
The daughter of Louis VIII of Hesse-Darmstadt and Charlotte Christine Magdalene Johanna of Hanau, she married on January 28, 1751, to Charles Frederick, Margrave of Baden. EOL

VIII l Maria Eufrosyne (14 February 1625 - 24 October 1687); married Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie.
Maria Euphrosyne of Zweibrücken (14 February 1625 – 24 October 1687) was a countess palatine, a cousin and foster-sibling of Queen Christina of Sweden, and a sister of King Charles X of Sweden. She was also, after the accession of her brother Charles X on the throne (1654), a titular Royal Princess of Sweden.
On 15 March 1645, Maria Euphrosyne was engaged to the Queen's favorite Count Magnus Gabriel De la Gardie, and on 7 March 1647, she married him in the Royal Chapel of Tre Kronor (castle) in Stockholm. The marriage was arranged by Christina.

IX t Katharina Charlotte (1655–1697)
⚭ 1682 Graf Otto Wilhelm von Königsmarck (1639–1688)
Gräfin Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (* 18. März 1654/55; † 15. September 1697) war die Ehefrau des venezianischen Generalissimus und Kriegshelden Otto Wilhelm Graf von Königsmarck, den sie am 9. Februar 1682 heiratete. EOL

IX u Ebba Hedwig (1659–1700)
⚭ 1684 Graf Karl Gustav Oxenstierna (1655–1686)

X r Catharina Charlotta De la Gardie (1655–1697), gift 1682 med greve Otto Wilhelm Königsmarck; barnlös

X s Hedvig Ebba De la Gardie (1657–1700), gift 1684 med greve Carl Gustaf Oxenstierna af Södermöre; en son som avled barnlös.

VIII m Eleonora Catherine (17 May 1626 - 3 March 1692); married Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege.
The negotiations concerning her marriage with Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege, son of Maurice, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, started in 1643. The landgrave was a second cousin of both her parents and nine years her senior. The negotiation process was difficult, but finally completed in June 1646. She was granted a fortune of 20,000 gulden by her father. The marriage took place at Tre Kronor in Stockholm on 6 September 1646.

IX v Christine (b. Kassel, 30 October 1649 – d. Bevern, 18 March 1702), married in 1667 to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Bevern.
Christine von Hessen (30 October 1648 – 18 March 1702) was a German noblewoman, belonging to the Hessen-Eschwege branch of the Hessen-Rotenburg line of the House of Hesse. Through her marriage on 25 November 1667 in Eschwege to Ferdinand Albert I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1636-1687), she became Duchess-Consort of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel-Bevern. EOL

IX w Juliana (b. Eschwege, 14 May 1652 – d. IJsselstein, 20 June 1693), prospective bride of Charles XI of Sweden; married in 1680 Johann Jakob Marchand, Baron of Lilienburg.
Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege (14 May 1652 – 20 June 1693) was a German noblewoman. In her teens she was brought up at the Swedish royal court as the future queen of King Charles XI of Sweden, her cousin. However, on two occasions before the wedding Juliana became pregnant, and the engagement was eventually broken off. In 1679 or 1680, Juliana married a Dutchman and lived the rest of her life in the Netherlands, while Charles XI married Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark in 1680.
[I'll count the affair as a possible first marriage, so, she was between 19-20 and 27-28 when she married: low count 19, high count 28,]

X t Eleonora (4 May 1683, IJsselstein – after 22 November 1707, Bremen?), married on 21 October 1704 in IJsselstein Mr. Johan Spiering (6 November 1672, Utrecht – 22 July 1739, Amsterdam), son of Francois Ewoutsz. Spiering and Elisabeth Maria van Someren

X u Juliana (baptised 4 May 1684, IJsselstein – 24 November 1726, Jever), married in 1707 Ulrich Friedrich von Weltzien, Herr von Blexersande

IX x Charlotte (b. Eschwege, 3 September 1653 – d. Bremen, 7 February 1708), married firstly in 1673 with Prince August of Saxe-Weissenfels (son of Duke August) and secondly in 1679 with John Adolph, Count of Bentheim-Tecklenburg (divorced 1693).
On 25 August 1673 in Halle, he married Charlotte, the daughter of Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Eschwege from his marriage to Countess Palatine Eleonora Catherine of Zweibrücken, the daughter of John Casimir, Count Palatine of Kleeburg. After August's death, Charlotte married Count John Adolph of Bentheim-Tecklenburg, from whom she later divorces. EOL

VI q Christine (29 June 1543 – 13 May 1604), married in Gottorp on 17 December 1564 to Adolf, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp.

VII l Sophia (1 June 1569 – 14 November 1634), married on 17 February 1588 to John VII, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. EOL

VII m Christina (13 April 1573 – 8 December 1625), married on 27 August 1592 to King Charles IX of Sweden.

VIII n Maria Elizabeth (10 March 1596– 7 August 1618), married her first cousin John, Duke of Östergötland, youngest son of John III of Sweden
On 29 November 1612, at the age of sixteen, Princess Maria Elizabeth celebrated her wedding to the Duke of Ostrogothia in the royal palace Tre Kronor in Stockholm.
.... The royal couple ruled quite independently in their Duchy. John had the right to issue new laws, and Maria Elizabeth evidently had influence on his rule. During the six years they lived together in Ostrogothia, a witch hunt was conducted in the duchy, for which they, and Maria Elizabeth in particular, are considered to be responsible. EOL

VII n Anna (27 February 1575 – 24 April 1625), married 28 January 1598 to Count Enno III of Ostfriesland.
On 28 January 1598, she married Count Enno III of Ostfriesland, elder son of Count Edzard II of Ostfriesland and his wife Princess Katarina of Sweden, eldest daughter of King Gustav I of Sweden

VIII o Anna Maria, Countess of Ostfriesland (1601–1633), married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658)
Anna Maria of Ostfriesland (23 June 1601 – 15 February 1634) was a German noblewoman.
On 4 September 1622 she married Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1588–1658).

IX y Anna Maria of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1 July 1627 – 11 December 1669), married Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels (ancestors of George III of the United Kingdom).
On 23 November 1647, in Schwerin, Anna Maria married Augustus, second surviving son of Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony, and moved with her husband to Halle, the main city of his domains as Administrator of the Archbishopric of Magdeburg. During her marriage, she bore twelve children, including three daughters who died in infancy in 1663

X v Magdalene Sibylle (b. Halle, 2 September 1648 - d. Gotha, 7 January 1681), married on 14 November 1669 to Duke Frederick I of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg.

XI e Anna Sophie (b. Gotha, 22 December 1670 – d. Rudolstadt, 28 December 1728), married on 15 October 1691 to Louis Frederick I, Prince of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.

XII e Princess Anna Sophie of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt (9 September 1700 – 11 December 1780)[1] was a Princess of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt.
On 2 January 1723 in Rudolstadt, she married Franz Josias, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld.

XIII b Princess Charlotte Sophie of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 September 1731 – Schwerin, 2 August 1810); married on 13 May 1755 Duke Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

XIII c Princess Friederike Caroline of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Coburg, 24 June 1735 – Schloß Schwaningen, 18 February 1791), married on 22 November 1754 Karl Alexander, Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach.

XI f Dorothea Marie (b. Gotha, 22 January 1674 – d. Meiningen, 18 April 1713), married on 19 September 1704 to Ernst Ludwig I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen.

XII f Luise Dorothea (b. Meiningen, 7 December 1710 d. Gotha, 22 October 1771) married on 17 September 1729 to Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg EOL

XI g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 24 March 1675 – d. Karlsbad, 28 May 1709), married on 25 May 1702 to Johann August, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. EOL

XI h Johanna (b. Gotha, 1 October 1680 – d. Strelitz, 9 July 1704), married on 20 June 1702 to Adolf Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. EOL

X w Sophie (b. Halle, 23 June 1654 - d. Zerbst, 31 March 1724), married on 18 June 1676 to Karl, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst.

XI i Magdalena Augusta (1679–1740), Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst married Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg
Princess Magdalena Augusta of Anhalt-Zerbst (13 October 1679 – 11 October 1740) was, by birth, a Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst and, by marriage, a Duchess of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. She was the maternal grandmother of George III of the United Kingdom.
In 1696, Magdalena Augusta married her first cousin, Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, who had become Duke in 1691.

XII g Fredericka (b. Gotha, 17 July 1715 – d. Langensalza, 12 May 1775), married on 27 November 1734 to Johann Adolf II, Duke of Saxe-Weissenfels.

XII h Augusta (b. Gotha, 30 November 1719 – d. Carlton House, 8 February 1772), married on 8 May 1736 to Frederick, Prince of Wales. They had 9 children; their second child later became King George III of Great Britain.

X x Christine (b. Halle, 25 August 1656 - d. Eutin, 27 April 1698), married on 21 June 1676 to August Friedrich of Holstein-Gottorp, Prince-Bishop of Lübeck (son of Frederick III, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, and his wife Duchess Marie Elisabeth of Saxony). No issue. EOL

V l Magdalena of Saxony (7 March 1507 – 25 January 1534); married on 6 November 1524 to Joachim Hector, then Electoral Prince of Brandenburg.

VI r Barbara of Brandenburg, Duchess of Brieg (1527–1595), had issue
Barbara of Brandenburg (10 August 1527 – Brzeg, 2 January 1595), was a German princess member of the House of Hohenzollern She was a Margravine of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage a Duchess of Brieg (Brzeg).
In 1537 Barbara was betrothed to George (later George II the Pious), second son of Duke Frederick II of Legnica as a part of the alliance signed between her father and Frederick II.[1] The wedding took place eight years later, on 15 February 1545 in her homeland, Berlin.

13 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18 18 18
12 13 13 14 14 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18
01 02 03 04 10 11 12 13 14 22 23 26 27 31 32 34 35

18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 22 23 23 23 24 24 24 25 25 25
18 18 18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 22 22 22 23 23 23 23 24 24 24 25
43 44 47 48 53 54 59 60 64 65 68 69 70 77 78 80 81 86 87 88 91 92 95 96 97 99 00

[the following = above 100]

26 26 27 27 27 27 28 28 28
25 26 26 26 27 27 27 28 28
01 02 03 08 09 10 11 12 14

29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 34 37 38 38 40 45 48 63
28 29 30 30 30 31 31 31 32 32 33 33 33 36 38 38 40 44 48 63
15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Minimum 12 or 13.
Lower Quartile, 17:18 or 18.
Median, 20 or 21.
Higher Quartile, 25:26 or 26.
Maximum 63.

This is pretty firmly placed in the Modern Ages, the medium year (I had 276 years instead of an expected 270, years of birth and of marriage of each) is 1598~1599.

In Modern Ages and some Protestant contexts, the age of marriage rises.

In all these genealogies, this is also the first one in which I saw a single pre-marital affair, that of Juliana, daughter of Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege, and, more importantly from our perspective, of his wife Eleonora Catherine of Palatinate Zweibrücken, who for this reason did not become queen consort of our King Charles XI. And this is precisely my problem with rising ages of marriage, it makes waiting till one is married harder and harder, and therefore promotes promiscuity. In some contexts that leads further to abortion, contraception, perversions.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Bibiana of Rome
Virgin and Martyr
2.XII.2023

Clumsy Salvaging of a Website

Here is a page that WebArchive saved:

https://web.archive.org/web/20051027013227/http://weisse-rose-stiftung.de/fkt_standard.php?aktion=cs&ma=cs&c_id=mamura&topic=033&mod=2&page=1&lang=de

But, when it came to the places where the text says "Weiter ..." it shows nothing.

So, most of the text of the site is lost.

Fortunately, the historic documents are still extant (as far as I know) and a similar site can be remade.

I can't do it, since I do not have access to the documents.

Someone else can./HGL

When it Comes to Inquisitions and Witches

there are people willing to quote one Kurt Baschwitz.

For those reading German:

Siegfried Kurt Baschwitz (* 2. Februar 1886 in Offenburg; † 6. Januar 1968 in Amsterdam) war ein deutsch-holländischer Journalist, Sozialpsychologe und Publizistikwissenschaftler. Baschwitz, der seine journalistische Tätigkeit 1908 begann, ist vor allem für seine Bücher über die Masse und Massenwahn bekannt. Von 1909 bis 1924 war Baschwitz Redakteur beim Hamburger Fremdenblatt, u. a. als Korrespondent in den Niederlanden. Danach arbeitete er bis 1928 für die Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung (DAZ). Ab Juli 1929 amtierte Baschwitz als Chefredakteur des Verlegerorgans Zeitungsverlag (ZV) in Berlin, aus dem er im April 1933 entlassen wurde. Als Sohn jüdischer Eltern musste er anschließend fliehen und ging in die Niederlande.

Kurt Baschwitz
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Baschwitz

For establishing facts about the topic, he is:

• wrong discipline
• wrong regional background in Germany and also otherwised biassed
• and wrong time, since better historiography was made available after he died.

What he had to say about mass hysteria may be very correct, but it was not so correct of him to project it on the Inquisitions hunting witches (Salem seems a bit more like what he was talking of, but even there some have dug up some credible arguments there could have been real witchcraft around).

Fortunately, there are people of Jewish background these days who seem more truthful and less biassed, more fair and less interested in calling opponents jerks who have researched Inquisition. One of their defenders is one Kamen, and I did not know, but he is a Polish Jew. Or, perhaps that was a fake info I saw, here is an article not saying such a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kamen

Anyway, his researfch on Inquisition is more recent than Baschwitz:

The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision. London and New Haven: Yale University Press (1997)

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Octave of All Souls
8.XI.2018

Christmas Trees and Jeremiah (eine Jeremiade über einige Fundies ...)

This is a Christmas tree:

Description

Deutsch: Kleinster Weihnachtsbaum der Welt. Dampflok BR89 mit Kühlwagen im Maßstab 1:220.

Date

Weihnacht 2007 jahre

Source

Holger Späing

Author

Lok82008

As you may notice, it does not look like a palm tree, we'll come back to why this is important.

The "Grinch of Advent Past" is called Ken Pullen. Hope he's "recovered" since.

He commented under an essay by RTO, to which I link and under which you will find his well intentioned perhaps, but ill informed comment:

The Story of the Christmas Tree
By RTO.org
http://www.returntoorder.org/2016/12/the-story-of-the-christmas-tree/

And here is the comment:

"To all of you so caught up and lost in this tale thinking it so wonderful, and making you 'feel good' and perverting it as if it comes from God and Christ?"

While it is true that some "feel good" may be perverted by the devil, this is not the general source of all that is "feel good".

There is a Puritanic mistrust in beauty which is nearly as fatuous as going after false gods for the sake of beauty - if not more. It is neither Catholic nor Jewish : Catholic holidays and feel good have replaced the Jewish one, but the Jews also had such in the Old Testament (and some still think it is ongoing and keep these). Neither Catholics nor Jews are reducing rest to 52 days per year and reducing the holiday keeping to rest from servile work only, plus possibly prayer. Calvin and his disciples have used the negatives of both to come up with a combined thing more Puritan than either. So, beauty, in and of itself, is not wrong.

Whatever false gods have of it, they have it (through minds of men or from deceits of demons) from the True God, Who is the source of all true beauty.

Ken Pullen would need to consider exactly how a Christmas tree could pervert anything before pulling this kind of accusations.

"The comment from Sabienne below is the only one which has any truth to it."

It is resumed in his resumé just here:

"What should be everyone's source is God's Word. Not some tale from the mind of man to promote further erosion of the truth. Everything anyone needs to know regarding the origin of the Christmas tree and what it really means only need go to Jeremiah 10 and read the first 4 verses and that says it all as clear and plain as anyone needs."

This falls into two parts. A general and a false historic one.

"What should be everyone's source is God's Word."

For the things which are adressed in it, yes. I just had the sadness of seeing a "Vatican II" sectarian deny the historicity of the Wedding in Cana, and I called that denial apostasy (I might add : to Islam, or some other alcohol prohibitionist false religion).

"Not some tale from the mind of man to promote further erosion of the truth."

Well, extra-Biblical tales about historic facts are not all products of "the mind of man" but also of observation of man of what is there before he has a mind about it. Like the stories in the Bible themselves. When Moses wrote about the Exodus, he did not wait for God to dictate, necessarily, he most certainly used his own memory and what he had been told about his childhood and ancestry.

Because a tale is not in the Bible, it does not mean it is false. If Moses could use his memory, so can Christians and even Pagans (when they are not actively misusing it). Besides, you are making a tale from your own human mind (it is not from the Bible) about how to treat tales that are not found in the Bible.

Now, here is the second part, the false historical one:

"Everything anyone needs to know regarding the origin of the Christmas tree and what it really means only need go to Jeremiah 10 and read the first 4 verses and that says it all as clear and plain as anyone needs."

Er, no, they do not. I'll actually give even five verses:

Jeremiah 10:[1] Hear ye the word which the Lord hath spoken concerning you, O house of Israel. [2] Thus saith the Lord: Learn not according to the ways of the Gentiles: and be not afraid of the signs of heaven, which the heathens fear: [3] For the laws of the people are vain: for the works of the hand of the workman hath cut a tree out of the forest with an axe. [4] He hath decked it with silver and gold: he hath put it together with nails and hammers, that it may not fall asunder. [5] They are framed after the likeness of a palm tree, and shall not speak: they must be carried to be removed, because they cannot go. Therefore, fear them not, for they can neither do evil nor good.

A palm tree is very slender nearly all the way to the top, then it broadens out at the top. Take a look at this image of Hathor:

By Jeff Dahl - Own work, GFDL, Link

Or take the fact that Hathor heads decorated columns:

descr

Temple of Hathor at Dendera, Egypt. Hathor Column

Date

between 2005 and 2006

Source

Own work

Author

Steve F-E-Cameron (Merlin-UK)

A column, as general shape, is that of a palm tree. Now, usually in Greek columns, with just plates, scrolls or plants on column heads, there was no idolatry involved in columns themselves, less sure about Caryatides and Atlants. But Ancient Near East can have been different with superstitions attached even to columns in the temples. The one shown on photo is in stone, but wood was used in some lesser temples too, no doubt.

And what about this figurine of Amun?

By Anonymous (Egypt) - Walters Art Museum: Home page  Info about artwork, Public Domain, Link

Slender enough at bottom and if not branching out wide at top, the "hat" looks like palm leaves. I am leaving out idols of Baal which are even closer to the description in Jeremiah. But you can find pictures of them on wikipedia.

A pine tree is clearly the reverse : it is broadest just a bit over the bottom, and it becomes very much more slender near the top. And if you refer to a palm tree bearing fruit, it is not the shape but the function. Also, palm trees are very much not alone in the function, and we'll return to why Christmas trees have fruit, specifically apples.

Getting back to verse 1, while the Church is the heir of Israel, the immediate adressee of above words was Israel of the Old Covenant.

And now, verses 2, 3, 4 : there is no astrology in the Christmas tree, nor is there any need to keep it together by nails. It is usually not decked with gold and silver.

Even a May Pole is - though closer to the palm shape - clearly not feared. If not even a May Pole is what Jeremiah is talking about, how could a Christmas tree be so?

Now, that said, I am less sure of the story given by RTO/TFP is totally correct.

In the seventh century a monk from Crediton, Devonshire, went to Germany to teach the word of God. His name was St. Boniface. He did many good works there and spent much time in Thuringia, a region later to become the centre of the Christmas decoration industry.

Tradition has it that St. Boniface used the triangular shape of the fir tree to describe the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The converted people began to revere the fir tree as God’s tree, as they had previously revered the oak.

That much seems very likely, but there is a connection here, which is not clear. There seems to be some reconstruction about the connection between early conversion of Germany and late Middle Ages, instead of sticking to facts given by the story.

By the twelfth century it was being hung, upside-down, from ceilings at Christmas time in Central Europe, as a symbol of Christianity and was referred to as the ‘Tree of Christ’.

I'd like a reference to a Christbaum being hung upside down ...

The first decorated tree was at Riga in Latvia in 1510, while the first Christmas tree came to England with the Georgian Kings from Germany.

Well, there is some time between St Boniface and the 16th C. Moorhead company in Riga, in then Livland.

But the first decorated tree being in 1510 is wrong, now we have earlier references.

Schon im Mittelalter bestand vielerorts der Brauch, zu bestimmten öffentlichen Festlichkeiten ganze Bäume zu schmücken, wie zum Beispiel den Maibaum oder den Richtbaum

.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weihnachtsbaum

This is a reference to the May Pole, not quite the same thing.

Zu Weihnachten wurden in der Kirche Paradiesspiele aufgeführt, weil der 24. Dezember vor der Liturgiereform nach dem Zweiten Vatikanischen Konzil der liturgische Gedenktag Adam und Evas war, an dem im Brauchtum ein Paradiesbaum, der durchaus auch ein Laubbaum sein konnte, mit Äpfeln behängt wurde. Der Apfel diente dabei als Zeichen der Frucht vom Baum der Erkenntnis und erinnerte an den Sündenfall und an die Befreiung des Menschen von der Erbsünde durch Jesus Christus.

(same article)

Ah, yes. At the occasion of Christmas Eve, in Church or outdoors, there was a representation of what happened in Eden, in Genesis 3. There was a tree representing the one Adam and Eve picked a fruit from. And, while a leaf tree rather than a conifer was possible, I am not sure how many leaf trees were available as alternatives to pines. Perhaps hollies - if you consider them as trees rather than as bushes.

The decoration of the tree was apples (the fruit stolen by Adam) and non-consecrated Hosts (Oblaten), which represent the Eucharist which Christ came to give us.

Gold and silver could occur, but secondary, not covering all of it : unlike the craftsmanship described in Jeremiah, you are supposed to see it is a tree.

It seems one of the horrors of Vatican II Liturgic Reform was doing away with December 24 as memorial day of Adam and Eve.

Von 1521 datiert ein Eintrag in einem Rechnungsbuch der Humanistenbibliothek in Schlettstadt: „Item IIII schillinge dem foerster die meyen an sanct Thomas tag zu hieten.“ (Neuhochdeutsche Übersetzung: „Ebenso vier Schillinge dem Förster, damit er ab dem St.-Thomastag die Bäume bewacht.“)

So, Alsatia shows pines risking felling from the day of St Thomas (December 21), meaning the municipality of Schlettstadt probably wanted monopoly on this particular Christmas decoration - for the one in or next to Church. Now to the Moors' Head Companies decorating and then burning Christmas trees:

Von den Schwarzhäuptern in Riga und Reval wurden in der ersten Hälfte des 16. Jahrhunderts gegen Ende der Weihnachtszeit Tannenbäume auf den Markt getragen, geschmückt und zum Schluss verbrannt.

I am not sure you have heard one of the recent accusations against Christendom, that in the Middle Ages it was heavily against Black People. Check out the Moorhead emblem:

Description

Deutsch: Schwarzhäupterwappen im Schwarzhäupterhaus Riga

Date

August 2009

Source

Own work

Author

Greifen

Looks like Jamaica, perhaps Mauritius, but it is in Riga.

Yes, a moor's head, through misunderstanding of the name, probably, was the emblem of the Roman Martyr St Mauritius.

Why were Christmas trees burnt after being used for decorations? Well, at the end of the Christmas season - in the Middle Ages of Riga it could have been, like still in Sweden, Octave of Epiphany, January 13 (some parts of Catholic France even extend it to February 2, Candlemass) - Christmas season is over and continuing to show forth the signs of Christmas while being really obliged to another season of the Church year, namely pre-Lent and Lent, would be heresy. The Christmas trees were burnt lest they should fall into heresy.

But I am waiting for a reference for Christmas trees hung upside down in Central Europe in the 12th C., though I could of course google or ask someone on Atlas Obscura if they have sth. Meanwhile, the Grinch is answered.

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre
St Nicais of Rheims or
Day after St Lucy
14.XII.2017

Nibelungen verse project

1) I'll give you wondrous hearsay · which olden tales us tell
of praising of the heroes · of deeds perfected well
of joy and festive season · of crying and of sorrow
of noble men at fighting · so your eager ears I wish to borrow.

2) There grew in Burgund · a truly noble maid
who in all lands no fairer · than her was truly said.
She was ycleped Kriemhilt · and fair to make one grieve
Wherefore of gallant warriors · so many had their flesh to leave.

3) Most lovable the maiden · deserved the love of all
the brave for her took efforts · none enemy, each thrall
and beauteous without measure · that was her flesh so fair
but virtues of this virgin · are fair for women everywhere.

4) Three kings of her were caring · of nobility and might
Gunther, even Gernot · such warriors were right
and Giselher, the young one · a choice and noble man
the lady was their sister · the princes care as best they can.

= 4) Ir pflâgen drî künege edel unde rîch:
Gunther unde Gêrnôt, die recken lobelîch,
und Gîselher der junge, ein ûz erwelter degen.
diu frouwe was ir swester. die fürsten hetens in ir pflegen.

dead link, previously about Nibelungen:
http://www3.nd.edu/~gantho/anth1-163/Nibelungenlied63-81.html

The project had to be abandoned at least for this link, since after the last stanza I copied from it, I have no online Middle High German text to translate. Too bad!/HGL