Showing posts with label history of learning and culture. Show all posts
Showing posts with label history of learning and culture. Show all posts

Saturday, August 22, 2026

Eugene of Savoy


It so happens that Eugene of Savoy was twice at least beating Turks. Vienna, 1683, along John III Sobieski, and Belgrade 1688. No one will suspect him of being a Muslim. Nevertheless, he will be from a culture having one trait which today is actually often associated with Muslims.

1) Prince Eugene Francis of Savoy-Carignano (18 October 1663 – 21 April 1736)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Eugene_of_Savoy

unmarried


Following ancestors are traced from the above article, by the fact that both he himself and quite a few of his ancestors have "father" and "mother" noted on the article. He will actually have an incomplete genealogy, nearly as incomplete as on English wikipedia, but he will have a pretty big genealogy anyway. We are, including himself, dealing with 51 persons, at least.

Parents

2) Prince Eugene Maurice of Savoy-Carignano, 2 March 1635 – 6 June 1673
3) Olympia Mancini, Countess of Soissons, 11 July 1638 – 9 October 1708
married Olympia was married on 24 February 1657 to Prince Eugène-Maurice of Savoy, Count of Soissons (1633–1673), by whom she had eight children, amongst whom was the famous field marshal Prince Eugene of Savoy.


The "married" notice will usually be from the wiki on the lady, if there is one.

Grandparents

4) Thomas Francis of Savoy, Prince of Carignano, 21 December 1596 – 22 January 1656
5) Marie de Bourbon, Countess of Soissons, 3 May 1606 – 3 June 1692
married
On 6 January 1625, Marie was married to Thomas Francis,[1] ninth child of Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy, and his wife Catherine Michaela of Austria.

6) Michele Lorenzo Mancini, Roma, 1602 – Roma, 5 luglio 1650
7) Girolama Mazzarini, Rome, 1608 or 1614 – Paris, 29 December 1656
married
Geronima married an Italian aristocrat, Baron Lorenzo Mancini, (1602–1650), son of Paolo Lucio Mancini and Vittoria Capoccii, on 6 August 1634.


Greatgrandparents

8) Charles Emmanuel I, Rivoli, 12 January 1562 – Savignano, 26 July 1630
9) Catalina Micaela of Spain (Madrid, 10 October 1567 – Turin, 6 November 1597)
married
The wedding took place in Zaragoza on 11 March 1585, and the couple made their entrance to Turin in Savoy on 10 August 1585.

10) Charles de Bourbon (3 November 1566 – 1 November 1612)
11) Anne de Montafié, Countess of Clermont-en-Beauvaisis, (21 July 1577 – 17 June 1644)
married
On 27 December 1601, she married Charles de Bourbon, Count of Soissons, son of Louis de Bourbon, Prince of Condé and Françoise d'Orléans-Longueville, a Prince of the Blood, who was also a military commander during the French Wars of Religion.

12) Francesco Alessandro Paolo Mancini, Abt 1580 - Abt 1637
13) Vittoria Capoccii
married
[unknown]

14) Pietro Mazzarino, o Mazzarini (Palermo, 1576 – Roma, 4 febbraio 1654),
15) Ortensia Bufalini (1575 – 1644)
married
[before 1602]


Great-greatgrandparents

16) Emmanuel Philibert, Chambéry, 8 July 1528 – Turin, 30 August 1580
17) Margaret of Valois, Duchess of Berry, St. Germain-en-Laye, 5 June 1523 – Turin, 15 September 1574
married
Shortly before her 36th birthday, a marriage was finally arranged for her by her brother King Henry II of France and her former suitor Philip II as part of the terms stipulated in the Treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis which was signed by the ambassadors representing the two monarchs on 3 April 1559. ... The wedding took place in tragic circumstances. On 30 June just three days after her marriage contract had been signed, King Henry was gravely injured during a tournament celebrating the wedding of his eldest daughter Elisabeth to the recently widowed King Philip. ... Margaret and her husband had only one surviving child: Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy who was born in January 1562, when Margaret was 38 years of age.

18) Philip II of Spain, Pimentel, 21 May 1527 – El Escorial, 13 September 1598
19) Elisabeth of Valois, Fontainebleau, 2 April 1546[1] – Aranjuez, 3 October 1568
married
Elisabeth married Philip II of Spain on 22 June 1559.

20) Louis de Bourbon, 1st Prince of Condé (Vendôme, 7 May 1530 – Jarnac, 13 March 1569)
21) Françoise d'Orléans-Longueville, Princess of Condé (Châteaudun 5 April 1549 – Paris 11 June 1601)
married
On 8 November 1565, in the Château de Vendôme, Françoise married Louis I de Bourbon, Prince of Condé,[1] the youngest brother of King Antoine of Navarre and a Huguenot general. ... After the night of the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre on 23 August 1572, she and her son quickly converted to Roman Catholicism to avoid persecution and possible assassination.

22) Louis (ou Ludovic) de Montafié, ??
23) Jeanne de Coësmes, princesse de Conti, dame de Lucé et de Bonnétable, née en 1560 [ou 1555], décéda le 27 décembre 1601[1] à Saint-Mars-de-Locquenay.
married:
D'abord mariée en 1574 à Louis (ou Ludovic) de Montafié, seigneur piémontais, comte de Montafié et Carignan, elle eut deux filles, Urbaine et Anne de Montafié. Après l'assassinat de son mari, alors capitaine du roi Henri III, à Aix-en-Provence le 6 octobre 1577, elle devint la première épouse de François de Bourbon, prince de Conti en 1582.


24—31) unknown

great-great-great-grandparents

32) Charles III of Savoy (10 October 1486 – 17 August 1553),
33) Infanta Beatrice of Portugal (Portuguese: Beatriz 31 December 1504 – 8 January 1538)
married
In Villefranche-sur-Mer on 29 September 1521, Beatrice married Duke Charles III of Savoy.

34) Francis I of France, 12 September 1494 – 31 March 1547
35) Claude of France, 13 October 1499 – 26 July 1524
married
On 9 January 1514, when her mother died, Claude became Duchess of Brittany; and four months later, on 18 May, at the age of 14, she married her cousin Francis at Saint-Germain-en-Laye.

36) HRE Charles V (24 February 1500 – 21 September 1558)
37) Isabella of Portugal, 24 October 1503 – 1 May 1539
married
In January 1526, Isabella traveled to Spain.[5] Upon her arrival, she met the Duke of Calabria, the Archbishop of Toledo and the Duke of Béjar at the Spanish-Portuguese border. They escorted her to Seville, where she would wait a week for Charles. In the end, their wedding took place the very next day just after midnight on 11 March in the Palace of Alcázar of Seville.

38) Henry II of France, 31 March 1519 – 10 July 1559
39) Catherine de' Medici (13 April 1519 – 5 January 1589)
married
The wedding, a grand affair marked by extravagant display and gift-giving,[22] took place in the Église Saint-Ferréol les Augustins in Marseille on 28 October 1533.

40) Charles de Bourbon, duc de Vendôme (2 June 1489 – 25 March 1537)
41) Frances of Alençon (1490 – 14 September 1550)
married
[In 1505, Françoise married Francis II, Duke of Longueville.] On 18 May 1513, Françoise married, secondly, Charles de Bourbon, Duke of Vendôme.

42) François d'Orléans, né le 2 mars 1513 à Châteaudun où il meurt le 25 octobre 1548 (à 35 ans), est un seigneur français de la Renaissance.
43) Jacqueline de Rohan-Gié (née vers 1520, morte en 1587), vicomtesse de Melun et dame de plusieurs seigneuries par son mariage avec François d'Orléans-Longueville,
married
elle se marie à Lyon, le 19 juillet 1536, à François d'Orléans (1513-1548) (2 mars 1513 - 25 octobre 1548), marquis de Rothelin (cadet des Orléans-Longueville, comtes de Neuchâtel ; il est le troisième fils de Jeanne de Bade-Hochberg-Neuchâtel et du duc Louis Ier), prince de Châtelaillon, vicomte de Melun et lieutenant de la compagnie de Longueville (1513-1548).


44—47) unknown
48—63) unknown

Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandparents

64) Philip II (5 February 1438 – 7 November 1497), known as the Landless, was Duke of Savoy from 1496 until his death in 1497
65) Claudine de Brosse (1450 – 13 October, 1513)
married
Claudine married Philip II, Count of Bresse on 11 November, 1485. She was his second wife, following the death of Margaret of Bourbon in 1483.

66) Manuel I (31 May 1469 – 13 December 1521), known as the Fortunate, was King of Portugal from 1495 to 1521.
67) Maria of Aragon (29 June 1482 – 7 March 1517) was Queen of Portugal from 30 October 1500 until her death in 1517 as the second wife of King Manuel I. Manuel was the widower of Maria's elder sister, Isabella.
married
Manuel and Maria were married in Alcácer do Sal on 30 October 1500,[3] and Maria was granted Viseu and Torres Vedras as her dower.

68) Charles of Orléans (1459 – 1 January 1496) (French: Charles d'Orléans) was the Count of Angoulême from 1467 until his death.
69) Louise of Savoy (11 September 1476 – 22 September 1531) was a French noble and regent, Duchess suo jure of Auvergne and Bourbon, Duchess of Nemours and the mother of King Francis I and Marguerite of Navarre.
married
At age eleven, Louise married Charles of Orléans, Count of Angoulême, on 16 February 1488 in Paris, though she only began living with him when she was fifteen. Despite her husband having two mistresses, the marriage was happy, and they shared a love of books.

70) Louis XII (27 June 1462 – 1 January 1515), also known as Louis of Orléans, was King of France from 1498 to 1515 and King of Naples (as Louis III) from 1501 to 1504.
71) Anne of Brittany (Breton: Anna; 25/26 January 1477[1] – 9 January 1514[2]) was suo jure Duchess of Brittany from 1488 until her death, and Queen of France from 1491 to 1498 and again from 1499 to her death. She was the only woman to have been queen consort of France twice.
married
Anne's third marriage contract, signed the day of her marriage (Nantes, 7 January 1499), was concluded under conditions radically different from those of the second. She was no longer a child, but a Dowager Queen, and determined to ensure the recognition of her rights as sovereign Duchess from that point forward. Although her new husband exercised the ruler's powers in Brittany, he formally recognized her right to the title "Duchess of Brittany" and issued decisions in her name.

72) Philip the Handsome (22 June/July 1478 – 25 September 1506), also called Philip the Fair, was ruler of the Habsburg Netherlands from 1482, including the counties of Artois, Burgundy and Charolais from 1493, and the first king of Castile from the House of Habsburg in 1506.
73) Joanna or Joan (also known as Joanna the Mad or Joan the Mad[1]; Spanish: Juana la Loca; 6 November 1479 – 12 April 1555) was queen of Castile from 1504 and queen of Aragon from 1516 to her death in 1555. married
In 1496, 16-year-old Joanna was betrothed to 18-year-old Philip of Austria, in the Low Countries. ... Joanna began her journey to Brabant in the Low Countries, which consisted of parts of the present day Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, and Germany, on 22 August 1496. The formal marriage took place on 20 October 1496 in Lier, north of present-day Brussels. Between 1498 and 1507, she gave birth to six children, two boys and four girls, all of whom grew up to be either emperors or queens.


74—75 = 66—67
76—77 = 34—35

78) Lorenzo di Piero de' Medici (12 September 1492 – 4 May 1519) was the ruler of Florence from 1516 until his death in 1519. He was also Duke of Urbino during the same period.
79) Madeleine de La Tour d'Auvergne (1498 – 28 April 1519), was the penultimate representative of the senior branch of an ancient French House of La Tour d'Auvergne. She is best known for being the mother of Catherine de' Medici, the future Queen of France.
married
Madeleine married Duke Lorenzo II de' Medici in Château d'Amboise on 5 May 1518.

80) Francis or François de Bourbon (c. 1470 – 30 October 1495), Count of Vendôme, was a French prince du sang.
81) Marie of Luxembourg-Saint-Pol (c. 1472 — 1 April 1547) was the ruling Countess Regnant of Soissons and Saint-Pol between 25 October 1482 and 1 April 1547. She was additionally made Countess consort of Vendôme through her marriage to Francis, Count of Vendôme.
married
Marie's status and part of her French inheritance were restored upon her remarriage to Francis de Bourbon, Count of Vendôme, a prince du sang, in 1487.

82) René of Alençon (1454 – 1 November 1492) was a French nobleman. He succeeded his father Jean II of Alençon as Duke of Alençon.
83) Margaret of Lorraine, Duchess of Alençon (1463 at the castle of Vaudémont, Lorraine – 2 November 1521 in Argentan, Normandy) was a French noblewoman and a nun of the order of Poor Clares (Ordre des Clarisses). She was beatified in 1921.
married
When [her grandfather] died in 1480, she was sent back to Lorraine to her brother, René II. He arranged her marriage to René, Duke of Alençon, whom she wed in Toul on 14 May 1488.

84) Louis (Lewis) I d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville (1480 – Beaugency, 1 August 1516), was a French aristocrat and general, Grand Chamberlain of France and governor of Provence.
85) Johanna of Hachberg-Sausenberg (French: Jeanne de Hochberg; between 1485 and 1487 – 23 September 1543) was Countess regnant of Neuchâtel from 1503 to 1512 and again from 1529 until her death.
married
Born between 1485 and 1487, Johanna was the daughter of Philip of Hachberg, Count of Neuchâtel and Maria of Savoy. She inherited the rule of Neuchâtel from her father in 1503. In 1504, Johanna married Louis I d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville. As was the custom with female rulers at the time, her husband became her co-ruler.

86) Charles de Rohan, né vers 1478, mort le 6 mai 1528, fut seigneur de Gié, vicomte de Fronsac, comte de Guise et d'Orbec, seigneur du Verger et de Sablé.
87) Giovanna di Sanseverino (1479 - 1543)
married
Da er mit Charlotte d’Armagnac kinderlos blieb, heiratete er in zweiter Ehe Giovanna di Sanseverino, die Tochter von Bernardino di Sanseverino, Fürst von Bisignano, und Eleonore (Dianora) Todeschini Piccolimini d‘Aragona ... 1514?


88—127) unknown

And the summings up:

Men married
14 17 18 19 22 22 23 23 23 24 25 25 26 28 28 29 31
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

32 34 34 35 36 47
18 19 20 21 22 23

Min 14, Lower Quartile 22.5, Median 25,
Higher Quartile 31.5, Max 47

Women married
14 14 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 18 18 18 19 19 20 21 22
11 14 14 14 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 18 18 18 19 20 21
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

23 25 26 27 35 35
22 23 24 27 35 35
19 20 21 22 23 24

Min 11 or 14 (depending on how you count), Lower Quartile, 15.5 or 16, Median, 17.5 or 18,
Higher Quartile 21.5 or 22.5, Max 35

Men died
25 26 28 35 36 36 38 38 38 40 47 48 50 52 52 52 52 57 57
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

58 59 59 66 68 71 72
20 21 22 23 24 25 26

Min 25, Lower Quartile 38, Median 51,
Higher Quartile 58, Max 72

Women died
21 22 24 26 30 33 34 35 46 48 51 52 55 60 63 64 67 68
20 22 24 26 30 33 34 35 41 42 51 52 55 60 63 64 66 67
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

68 69 69 70 73 76 86
68 69 69 70 72 76 86
19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Min 20 or 21, Lower Quartile 34, Median 55,
Higher Quartile 68, Max 86


You may have noticed for "women married" that one of them formally married at 11 and began marital relations at 15. This means the minimum of "women married" is 11 years on the lower version, while the same person is third from left with 15 on the higher version. In the lower version, 4 women were married under 15, in the higher version 2. In the lower version further 6 are 15 or 16, and in the higher version that's seven.

Someone back in the 60's or 1960 itself made a case study of one Anglican or Puritan diocese mostly during the Civil War and Cromwell eras of England. He then concluded that while canon law permitted early marriages, this permission was rarely used. Married by 15 is 1/12 through 1/6. Married by 17 is 3/8 to 5/12. For men, unsurprisingly, ages are higher and only one man marries age 14 out of 23. Next older man was 17. The reason is, men have to be breadwinners (including as military vassals getting paid through their property) and that takes more time than reaching the canonic age.

There are things in Islam I don't like and there are things in radical Islam I don't like. But I'm not crusading, nor would Eugene of Savoy have done so, because many radical Muslims are no fans of European 18 or US (some states) 21 as minimal marriage age for a woman.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Immaculate Heart of Mary
22.VIII.2026

Octava Assumptionis beatae Mariae Virginis. Festum Immaculati Cordis ejusdem beatae Virginis Mariae

Monday, August 10, 2026

Good Books and Books


C. S. Lewis commented on a library which divided its books into two categories.

Good Books.
Books.

Famous Five would certainly be books, and so would P. G. Woodehouse. But not Tristram Shandy.

Good Books was more elusive. What quality is it that some books have at once (Ulysses or Finegan's Wake by James Joyce) and others acquire by age?

Difficulty.

This is the reverse of an observation on Homer, by Honor Cargill-Martin:

Who really wrote the Odyssey and the Iliad? Ancient historian answers your questions about Homer
Honor Cargill-Martin | 10 Aug. 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk4TTFJJDfo


Once upon a time, Homer would have been "Books" ... or in her words:

So people are literally being raised on this stuff and that means that the texts are very familiar to them. They're not intimidated by them.


CSL intended to get people to stop frowning on popular literature (provided it isn't unchaste or over the top cruel), and Honor Cargill-Martin's observation comes in pretty handy in this context.
/HGL




PS, from the same essay, CSL mentioned that the Classics tend to be either very popular popular literature, or very "urgent" literature of a patriotic or religious type (so "urgent" it becomes popular). The Ghettysburgh adress, the Apologia pro Vita Sua and Mark Twain are examples of the three types. To me at least. As to future Classics, CSL mentioned as possibilities P. G. Woodehouse and The Thirty-Nine Steps by John Buchan./HGL

PPS, given The Thirty-Nine Steps have been filmed in 2008 by BBC, earlier in 1935 by Hitchcock and then again there was a parody on the Hitchcock film written and rewritten in 1996—2005, I think CSL was spot on .../HGL

Friday, November 8, 2024

Galileo Understood the Then Standard View, But Misunderstood its Application to Joshua 10


Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Was it Baronius and Did Galileo Recall His Words Accurately? · Galileo Understood the Then Standard View, But Misunderstood its Application to Joshua 10 · Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl: Where exactly do we know from that the man who had said the famous quote "not how the heavens go, but how to go to Heaven" was Cardinal Baronius? Do we even know it?

Letter to Benedetto Castelli
Galileo Galilei | 1613, December 21
https://inters.org/Galilei-Benedetto-Castelli


On the view expressed by St. Thomas Aquinas and shared since Ptolemy, the angel of the Sun is moving the Sun East around Earth along the Zodiac each year. Meanwhile, God moves all of the heavens from East to West each day, from the Primum Mobile (that is, the sphere of the fixed stars) down to the Oceanic Currents around the Equator.

Here is what Galileo had to say in one of these arguments for Heliocentrism:

I first ask the opponent whether he knows with how many motions the sun moves. If he knows, he must answer that is moves with two motions, namely with the annual motion from west to east and with the diurnal motion in the opposite direction from east to west.

Then, secondly, I ask him whether these two motions, so different and almost contrary to each other, belong to the sun and are its own to an equal extent. The answer must be No, but that only one is specifically its own, namely the annual motion, whereas the other is not but belongs to the highest heaven, I mean the Prime Mobile; the latter carries along with it the sun as well as the other planets and the stellar sphere, forcing them to make a revolution around the earth in twenty-four hours, with a motion, as I said, almost contrary to their own natural motion.

Coming to the third question, I ask him with which of these two motions the sun produces night and day, that is, whether with its own motion or else with that of the Prime Mobile. The answer must be that night and day are effects of the motion of the Prime Mobile and that what depends on the sun's own motion is not night or day but the various seasons and the year itself.

Now, if the day derives not from the sun's motion but from that of the Prime Mobile, who does not see that to lengthen the day one must stop the Prime Mobile and not the sun? Indeed, is there anyone who understands these first elements of astronomy and does not know that, if God had stopped the sun's motion, He would have cut and shortened the day instead fo lengthening it? For, the sun's motion being contrary to the diurnal turning, the more the sun moves toward the east the more its progression toward the west is slowed down, whereas by its motion being diminished or annihilated the sun would set that much sooner; this phenomenon is observed in the moon, whose diurnal revolutions are slower than those of the sun inasmuch as is own motion is faster than that of the sun. It follows that it is absolutely impossible to stop the sun and lengthen the day in the system of Ptolemy and Aristotle, and therefore either the motions must not be arranged as Ptolemy says or we must modify the meaning of the words of the Scripture; we would have to claim that, when it says that God stopped the sun, it meant to say that He stopped the Prime Mobile, and that is said the contrary of what it would have said if speaking to educated men in order to adapt itself to the capacity of those who are barely able to understand the rising and setting of the sun.


The answer is, both movements stopped. God stopped His own moving of the Prime Mobile, which lengthened the day, which is noted in Joshua 10:14, here:

There was not before nor after so long a day, the Lord obeying the voice of a man, and fighting for Israel
[Josue (Joshua) 10:14]

But the Sun and Moon themselves also stopped:

The sun and the moon stood still in their habitation, in the light of thy arrows, they shall go in the brightness of thy glittering spear
[Habacuc (Habakkuk) 3:11]

Why? Because Joshua had spoken to them.

Imagine a man who was holy passed by a man sick in AIDS and in a cold. Imagine he stated "God cures your cold" and God then cured BOTH the AIDS and ALSO the cold. That would be befitting, since God would be giving authority to the words of the miracle worker, he would only go beyond them to fix a deeper problem as well.

This is about what happens when God in defending the authority of Joshua's words, decree that Sun and Moon stop, within orbits that normally run Eastward, but that are dragged Westward by the Prime Mobile. AND God on top of that stops Himself the Prime Mobile.

However, we cannot imagine God just curing the AIDS but leaving the cold as it was, since in that case He would not be giving authority to the words of the holy man.

For that reason, we cannot imagine that God stopped Earth from rotating instead of stopping the heavens from rotating around it. Which is how Fundamentalists who are Heliocentrics, not the ideal combination, now tend to take this passage.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Octave of All Saints
8.XI.2024

PS, I obviously agree with Cardinal Bellarmine in his letter to Fr. Foscarini. Something may be missing at [?]

Nor is it the same to demonstrate that by supposing the sun to be at the center and the earth in heaven one can save the appearances, and to demonstrate that in truth the sun is at the center and the earth in the heaven; for I believe the first demonstration may be available, but I have very great doubts about the second, and in case of doubt one must not abandon the Holy Scripture as interpreted by the Holy Fathers. ... Now, suppose you say that Solomon speaks in accordance with appearances, since it seems to us that the sun moves (while the earth does so), just as to someone who moves away from the seashore on a ship it looks like the shore is moving, I shall answer that when someone moves away from the shore, although it appears to him that the shore is moving away from him, nevertheless he knows that it is an error and corrects it, seeing clearly that the ship moves and not the shore; but in regard to the sun and the earth, no wise man has any need to correct the error, since he clearly experiences that the earth stands still and that the eye is not in error when it judges that the [?] it also is not in error when it judges that the stars move.

Thursday, October 24, 2024

Il y avait un temps, un péplum était Ben Hur ou Spartacus


Christianisme ou Socialisme ou, à la limite, un sens de justice social qui préfigure à la fois Christianisme et Socialisme.

Aujourd'hui, un péplum sortira dans le mois suivant, c'est Gladiator II.

Que disait St. Augustin de la volonté de regarder les gladiateurs ?

Est-il marqué quelque part en Cité de Dieu ?

Et "tu as un rage en toi qui te rendra grand" n'est pas forcément un message très correct ou très moral./HGL

Thursday, October 17, 2024

Ancêtres de Louis II de Monaco


Ancêtres de Louis II de Monaco · Encore en arrière (derrière les Monégasques) ?

Honoré IV, né le 17 mai 1758 à Paris et mort le 16 février 1819 dans la même ville, est prince souverain de Monaco du 30 mai 1814 au 16 février 1819, après la période d'occupation française (1793-1814).

Le 15 juillet 1777, il épouse Louise d'Aumont, duchesse de Mazarin qui lui donna le titre de baron de Massy transmis à la lignée princière de Monaco. Il en divorce le 22 juin 1793.

Louise Félicité Victoire d'Aumont, duchesse de Mazarin, née le 22 octobre 1759 à Paris et morte le 13 décembre 1826, est une aristocrate française, mère de deux souverains de Monaco.

Charles de Merode, de son nom complet Guillaume Charles Ghislain de Merode, comte de Merode de Westerloo, prince de Rubempré et d'Everberghe, né à Bruxelles le 16 septembre 1762, mort à Bruxelles le 18 février 1830, est un homme politique bruxellois.

En 1778, il épouse Marie d'Ongnies de Mastaing, princesse de Grimberghe, dame de l'Ordre de la Croix étoilée et dernière du nom et héritière par sa mère de la branche de Merode-Deinze, apportant entre autres héritages, les châteaux de Crupet, Ham-sur-Heure, Rixensart et Solre-sur-Sambre.

Archibald Hamilton, 9e duc de Hamilton et 6e duc de Brandon (15 juillet 1740 - 16 février 1819) est un pair et homme politique écossais.

Le 25 mai 1765, il épouse Lady Harriet Stewart (une fille d'Alexander Stewart, 6e comte de Galloway) et ils ont cinq enfants

William Thomas Beckford (29 September 1760 – 2 May 1844) was an English novelist, art critic, planter and politician.[1] He was reputed at one stage to be England's richest commoner.

On 5 May 1783 Beckford married Lady Margaret Gordon, a daughter of the fourth Earl of Aboyne.

Charles-Louis de Bade, né le 14 février 1755 à Karlsruhe et mort le 16 décembre 1801 à Arboga (Suède), fut prince héritier de Bade.

Charles-Louis de Bade épousa le 15 juillet 1774 Amélie de Hesse-Darmstadt (1754 – 1832, fille du landgrave Louis IX de Hesse-Darmstadt).

Amélie de Hesse-Darmstadt fut l'épouse du prince héréditaire de Bade. Elle eut une grande influence sur son gendre le tsar Alexandre Ier de Russie.

Claude de Beauharnais, comte des Roches-Baritaud, né le 26 septembre 1756 à La Rochelle et mort le 10 janvier 1819 à Paris, est un homme politique français.

Il épousa le 17 juin 1786 Claudine Françoise Adrienne Gabrielle de Lézay-Marnézia (1768-1791, fille de Claude-François de Lezay-Marnésia) qui mourut en couches ...

Une génération en arrière :

Honoré III, né Honoré Camille Léonor Grimaldi de Goyon de Matignon le 10 novembre 1720 à Paris et mort le 21 mars 1795 dans la même ville, est prince souverain de Monaco et duc de Valentinois de 1733 à 1793.

Après avoir entretenu en 1753 une relation avec la comédienne italienne Maria Anna Véronèse (1730-1782), marquise de Silly, il se marie le 5 juillet 1757, avec Marie-Catherine Brignole (1737-1813). Son épouse, dont il se sépare en 1770, est la fille de son ancienne maîtresse, la marquise Anna Balbi.

Marie-Catherine Brignole, née le 7 octobre 1737 à Gênes et morte le 18 mars 1813 à Wimbledon1, est une princesse de Monaco par son mariage avec le prince Honoré III en 1757 et une princesse de Condé par son remariage avec Louis Joseph de Bourbon en 1798.

Louis Marie Guy d'Aumont de Rochebaron, né le 5 août 1732 et mort le 20 octobre 1799 au château de Guiscard (Oise), est un militaire français, marquis de Villequier et de Piennes, puis duc de Mazarin (1747), puis duc de Piennes, puis 6e duc d'Aumont et Pair de France, baron de Chappes, maréchal de camp des armées du roi (25 juillet 1762).

Il épouse :

  1. le 2 décembre 1747 à Paris Louise-Jeanne de Durfort, duchesse de La Meilleraye et de Mazarin, sa cousine-germaine (Paris, 1er septembre 1735 - Paris, 17 mars 1781), fille d'Emmanuel Félicité de Durfort, duc de Duras, pair et maréchal de France, et de sa première épouse, Charlotte Antoinette de La Porte Mazarin. Ce mariage le fera prince de Porcien et duc de Rethel (Mazarin).
  2. Le 30 novembre 1794 à Paris, Marie-Louise Klein, fille de Jacques Klein et de Jeanne Bourcar.


Louise-Jeanne de Durfort de Duras, duchesse de Mazarin, de Mayenne et de La Meilleraye, appelée aussi la duchesse de Mazarin, née à Paris le 1er septembre 1735 et morte à Paris le 17 mars 1781, est une aristocrate française, réputée pour la collection d'objets d'art qu'elle a commandés aux artistes de son temps.

James Hamilton (5 janvier 1703 - 2 mars 1743) est un pair écossais, titré 5e duc de Hamilton.

Il épouse ensuite Anne Spencer le 21 août 1737 ...

Charles Ier Frédéric de Bade (Charles-Frédéric de Bade) est né le 22 novembre 1728 à Karlsruhe, et mort le 10 juin 1811 dans la même ville. Succédant à son grand-père Charles-Guillaume de Bade-Durlach, il est margrave de Bade-Durlach en 1738, puis, ayant rassemblé sous son nom l'ensemble des possessions de sa Maison par héritage en 1771, margrave de Bade. Devenu électeur de Bade par le recès d'Empire en 1803, il est élevé à la dignité grand-ducale par Napoléon en 1806.

Régnant d'abord sous la régence de sa grand-mère Madeleine de Wurtemberg, il fut proclamé majeur et marié à Caroline-Louise de Hesse-Darmstadt en 1746.

Caroline-Louise de Hesse-Darmstadt (après son mariage, Caroline-Louise de Bade), née le 11 juillet 1723 à Darmstadt et morte le 8 avril 1783 à Paris, est une margravine de Bade, artiste, collectionneuse et botaniste du xviiie siècle.

Claude-Joseph de Beauharnais, né à Rochefort le 16 janvier 1717 et mort le 25 décembre 1784 à Paris, seigneur puis comte des Roches-Baritaud (1759), est un officier de marine et gentilhomme français.

Il épouse le 6 mars 1753 à Saint-Eustache, Marie-Anne-Françoise Mouchard de Chaban (1737-1813), dite « Fanny de Beauharnais » après son mariage.

Marie-Anne-Françoise Mouchard de Chaban (1737-1813), dite Fanny, devenue comtesse de Beauharnais par mariage, est une femme de lettres française de la fin du siècle des Lumières qui a traversé l’époque révolutionnaire.

Claude-François-Adrien, marquis de Lezay-Marnésia, né à Metz le 26 août 1735 et mort le 9 novembre 1800 à Besançon, est un militaire, agriculteur et poète utopiste français d'origine lorraine.

De son mariage avec Marie-Claudine-Marguerite de Nettancourt, morte en 1793 à Londres, il a eu trois enfants

40 46 60 62 65 67 67 67 74 78 82 83
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
23 45 59 67 75 76 78
01 02 03 04 05 06 07

15 16 17 19 19 22 24 30 32 34 36 36
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
12 13 16 17 18 19 20
01 02 03 04 05 06 07


Des 12 hommes à chiffres répérables, les âges à la mort ont été entre 40 et 83, autour de 67, des sept femmes entre 23 et 78, aussi autour de 67.

Pour les mariages, c'était entre 15 et 36 pour les hommes, autour de 23, et pour les femmes, entre 12 et 20, autour de 17.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Ste. Marie Marguerite Alacoque
17.X.2024

Sunday, July 28, 2024

Seven Female Lineages, Seventyone Women, High or Classic Middle Ages


I'll be linking more systematically to the wikis I quote. We speak of the period that English with German and Swedish tends to consider as "High Middle Ages" = the peak of the wave, so to speak, and which French considers as "Moyen âge classique" which means Classic Middle Ages.

A, First Lineage:

I Agatha (before 1030 – after 1070) Nothing is known of Agatha's early life, and what speculation has appeared is inextricably linked to the contentious issue of Agatha's paternity, one of the unresolved questions of medieval genealogy. As the birth of her children is speculatively placed at around the year 1045, her own birth was probably before about 1030. -> II, XVI

II Saint Margaret of Scotland (c. 1045 – 16 November 1093) After she and her family fled north, Margaret married Malcolm III of Scotland by the end of 1070. -> III, V

III Matilda of Scotland (originally christened Edith,[a] 1080 – 1 May 1118), Edith and Henry were married on 11 November 1100 at Westminster Abbey by Archbishop Anselm of Canterbury. -> IV

IV Empress Matilda (c. 7 February 1102 – 10 September 1167)

The couple met at Liège before travelling to Utrecht where, on 10 April, they became officially betrothed.[19] On 25 July Matilda was crowned German queen in a ceremony at Mainz.[20] There was a considerable age gap between the couple, as Matilda was only eight years old while Henry was 24.[21] After the betrothal she was placed into the custody of Bruno, the archbishop of Trier, who was tasked with educating her in German culture, manners and government.[22][23][nb 5] In January 1114 Matilda was ready to be married to Henry, and their wedding was held at the city of Worms amid extravagant celebrations.[24] Matilda now entered public life in Germany, complete with her own household.[25]


[So, "married at 8" = "betrothal at 8, married later" and in this case at 12 minus some)

V Mary of Scotland, Countess of Boulogne (1082–1116), Matilda finally left the monastery in 1100 to marry King Henry I of England. ... [It is unclear whether this reposes on some kind of misunderstanding, so Mary married some time between 1096 and 1104, as far as I'm concerned.] -> VI

VI Matilda I, Countess of Boulogne Matilda (c.1105 – 3 May 1152) was Countess of Boulogne in her own right from 1125 and Queen of England from the accession of her husband, Stephen, in 1135 until her death in 1152 -> VII

VII Marie I, Countess of Boulogne Marie I or Mary (1136 – 25 July 1182 in St Austrebert, Montreuil, France) was the suo jure Countess of Boulogne from 1159 to 1170. She also held the post of Abbess of Romsey for five years until her abduction by Matthew of Alsace, who forced her to marry him. She is one of several possible identities of the author Marie de France. -> VIII, X

VIII Ida, Countess of Boulogne Ida of Boulogne (c. 1160 – 1216) was suo jure Countess of Boulogne from 1173 until her death. ... Her father continued to rule until his death in 1173, when she succeeded. Upon the advice of her uncle, Philip I, Count of Flanders, she married first in 1181, to Gerard of Guelders, but he died in the same year. -> IX

IX Matilda II, Countess of Boulogne Mahaut or Matilda II of Boulogne (also known as Mathilde, Maud de Dammartin; 1202 – January 1259) was Countess of Boulogne in her own right and Queen of Portugal by marriage to King Afonso III from 1248 until their divorce in 1253. ... In 1223, Matilda married her first husband, Philippe Hurepel, Count of Clermont-en-Beauvais, a younger, arguably illegitimate son of King Philip II of France.

X Matilda of Boulogne, Duchess of Brabant Matilda of Boulogne (1170 – 16 October 1210) was the younger daughter of Matthew, Count of Boulogne, and Marie I, Countess of Boulogne.[1] Matilda became Duchess of Brabant by her marriage to Henry I, Duke of Brabant.[2] Matilda married Henry I, Duke of Brabant, in 1180.

[Given birth years of children, the couple "waited" pretty long after the formal marriage / betrothal] -> XI, XII, XIII

XI Maria of Brabant, Holy Roman Empress Maria of Brabant (c. 1190 – May/June 1260), a member of the House of Reginar, was Holy Roman Empress from 1214 until 1215 as the second and last wife of the Welf emperor Otto IV. ... Otto and Maria of Brabant got married on 19 May 1214 in Maastricht.

XII Adelaide of Brabant (also known as Alix of Brabant, Aleyde de Brabant, Alix of Louvain or Adelheid van Brabant), born around 1190, died in 1265, was Countess of Boulogne from 1262 to 1265, the third reigning Countess in succession. She was the daughter of Henry I, Duke of Brabant and Matilda of Boulogne. She first married Arnoul III, Count of Rieneck and Looz (died 1221), around 1206, without issue. / Widowed, she remarried ...

XIII Matilda of Brabant, Countess of Holland, also called Machteld (c. 1200 – 22 December 1267), was Countess of Holland by marriage to Floris IV, Count of Holland. She was regent of Holland and Zeeland in 1234–1235. ... She married Floris IV, Count of Holland[2] on 6 December 1224. -> XIV, XV

XIV Adelaide of Holland (Dutch: Aleide (Aleidis); c. 1230 – buried 9 April 1284), was a Countess of Hainaut by marriage to John I, Count of Hainaut. ... On 9 October 1246, Adelaide married John I of Avesnes, Count of Hainaut.

XV Margaret of Holland, Countess of Henneberg (1234 – 26 March 1276) was a Dutch countess, known for a famous medieval legend. She was a daughter of Count Floris IV of Holland and his wife, Matilda of Brabant. Margaret married on Pentecost of 1249 to Count Herman I of Henneberg-Coburg. This marriage had political background, because Hermann had hoped to be elected King of the Germans earlier in 1246, but had lost to Margaret's brother William II. In an attempt to strengthen his influence in Germany, William had arranged a marriage between his sister and a German count.

XVI Cristina, daughter of Edward the Exile and Agatha, was the sister of Edgar Ætheling and Saint Margaret of Scotland, born in the 1040s. Cristina's nieces Edith and Mary were sent to Romsey Abbey, near Southampton, in 1086 when she was abbess. The date of her death is not known, but she does not appear to have given evidence to the conclave, suggesting she died sometime before 1100. Additional evidence of her death includes the transfer before 1093 of her nieces to Wilton Abbey for further education and the appointment of Eadgyth as the next abbess of Romsey Abbey.

[No statistics possible]

B, Second Lineage:

XVII Gisela of Burgundy (c.  955 – 21 July 1007), a member of the royal Elder House of Welf, was Duchess of Bavaria from about 972 to 976 and again from 985 to 995, by her marriage with Duke Henry the Wrangler. She was the mother of Emperor Henry II. About 965 Gisela was betrothed to Otto's nephew Henry the Wrangler, who then ruled as Duke of Bavaria; the couple married some time before 972.[2] Emperor Otto I died in 973 and was succeeded by his son Otto II. The 18-year-old had to cope with the Burgundian relations of his Bavarian cousin, forming a considerable power bloc in the southern domains of his realm. -> XVIII

XVIII Gisela of Hungary (or Gisele, Gizella and of Bavaria; c. 985 – 7 May 1065) was the first queen consort of Hungary by marriage to Stephen I of Hungary, and the sister of Henry II, Holy Roman Emperor. She has been beatified by the Catholic Church. ... She married King Stephen I of Hungary in 996[1] as a part of Hungary's policy of opening up to the West.

C, Third Lineage:

XIX Estrid of the Obotrites (c. 979 – 1035) was Queen of Sweden in the Viking age, a West Slavic princess married to Olof Skötkonung, King of Sweden c. 1000–1022.[1] She was the mother of King Anund Jacob of Sweden and the Kievan Rus' saint and grand princess Ingegerd Olofsdotter.[2] -> XX

XX Ingegerd Olofsdotter of Sweden, also known as Irene or Anna (1001 – 10 February 1050), was a Swedish princess and the grand princess of Kiev from 1019 to 1050 as the wife of Yaroslav the Wise. She was the daughter of the Swedish king Olof Skötkonung by his wife Estrid of the Obotrites. She is venerated as a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. ... Olof Skötkonung subsequently arranged for the marriage of Princess Ingegerd to the powerful Grand Prince Yaroslav I the Wise of Novgorod with whom Sweden had a flourishing trade relationship. The marriage took place in 1019. -> XXI, XXII

XXI Anastasia of Kiev (Russian: Анастасия Ярославна; Ukrainian: Анастасія Ярославна; c. 1023 – 1074/1094) was Queen of Hungary by marriage to King Andrew the White. ... Around 1038 Anastasia married Duke Andrew of Hungary,[1] who had settled down in Kiev after his father Vazul took part in a failed assassination attempt aimed at King Stephen I of Hungary -> XXIII

XXII Anne of Kiev or Anna Yaroslavna[a] (c. 1030 – 1075) was a princess of Kievan Rus who became Queen of France in 1051 upon marrying King Henry I. She ruled the kingdom as regent during the minority of their son Philip I from Henry's death in 1060 until her controversial marriage to Count Ralph IV of Valois. Anne founded the Abbey of St. Vincent at Senlis.

Anne and Henry were married for nine years and had three sons: Philip, Robert (who died young), and Hugh. Anne is often credited with introducing the Greek name "Philip" to royal families of Western Europe, as she bestowed it on her first son; she might have imported this Greek name from her Eastern Orthodox culture.[5] There may also have been a daughter, Emma, perhaps born in 1055; it is unknown if she married or when she died.[2] Henry and Anne of Kiev are additionally said to have been the parents of the beatified figure Edigna.[8]


On whom:

According to legend, Edigna was a daughter of Henry I of France and Anne of Kiev,[1] and was born c. 1055.[2] In 1074, at the age of 19,[3] she fled to Bavaria on a farmer's bullock cart to escape an arranged marriage.[1] The farmer stopped in Puch, Fürstenfeldbruck, where a rooster in the cart crowed and a bell rang. Edigna took this as a sign that she should leave the cart. She remained in Puch until her death on 26 February, 1109, living as a hermit in a hollowed-out linden tree and revered by the people as a miracle worker.[1] She did not reveal her royal background, but it was discovered after her death.[3] When she died, holy oil flowed from the tree, but it dried up when attempts were made to sell it.[1]

Edigna has been venerated since her death, and regarded as the patroness saint of Puch.[1]


This would make it likely that Anne of Kiev introduced the idea of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary (before her held in the East but mostly not in the Augustinian West), to Paris, to Senlis, to Puch in Bavaria. Except that Militant Thomist argues the West was not all that against the Immaculate Conception in the first place. On to her niece:

XXIII Adelaide of Hungary (c. 1040 – 27 January 1062)[1] was the only daughter of King Andrew I of Hungary.[2] It has generally been assumed that her mother was Anastasia of Kiev,[3] but it has been hypothesised that Adelaide could be the result of Andrew I and a different wife, due to the idea that Yaroslav the Wise wouldn't marry his daughter to an exiled dynast, who didn't appear to have a strong claim to the throne, for which he wouldn't gain serious support for until 1045, five years after Adelaide is thought to be born. [4] She was the second wife of Vratislav II of Bohemia, whom she married in 1058. -> XXIV

XXIV Judith of Bohemia (c. 1056/58 – 25 December 1086), also known as Judith Přemyslid, was a member of the Přemyslid dynasty and duchess of Poland by marriage. She was a daughter of Duke Vratislaus II of Bohemia and Adelaide of Hungary, and was married to Władysław Herman.[1][2] ... Around 1080, Judith married Duke Władysław Herman of Poland to solidify the recently established Bohemian-Polish alliance.

D, Fourth Lineage:

XXV Gertrude of Saxony (c. 1030 – August 4, 1113), also known as Gertrude Billung, was a countess of Holland by marriage to Floris I, Count of Holland, and countess of Flanders by marriage to Robert I, Count of Flanders. She was regent of Holland in 1061-1067 during the minority of her son Dirk V, and regent of Flanders during the absence of her spouse in 1086–1093. ... In c. 1050, she married Floris I, Count of Holland (c. 1017 – June 28, 1061).[2] Upon the death of her spouse in 1061, her son Dirk V became Count of Holland.[2] Since he was a minor, she became regent. -> XXVI, XXVIII

XXVI Bertha of Holland (c. 1055 – 15 October 1094), also known as Berthe or Bertha of Frisia and erroneously as Berta or Bertrada, was Queen of France from 1072 until 1092, as the first wife of King Philip I of France. Bertha's marriage to the king in 1072 was a result of peace negotiations between him and her stepfather, Count Robert I of Flanders. -> XVII

XXVII Constance of France (1078 – 14 September 1125/1126) was Countess of Troyes from her first marriage and Princess of Antioch from her second marriage. She was regent during the minority of her son. Constance was the eldest of five children and was the only daughter from her father's first marriage. Her brother was Louis VI of France. Constance was the daughter of King Philip I of France and Bertha of Holland.[1] Between 1093 and 1095, Phillip I arranged for his daughter, Constance, to marry Hugh, Count of Troyes and Champagne.

XXVIII Gertrude of Flanders (c. 1070–1117[1]), was a Countess of Louvain and Landgravine of Brabant by marriage to Henry III, Count of Leuven, and a Duchess of Lorraine by marriage to Theodoric II, Duke of Lorraine.[2] At the time the duchy was the upper Lorraine, since 959 separated from the duchy of Lower Lorraine. ... Gertrude married firstly Henry III, Count of Leuven (died wounded in a tournament in Tournai in 1095), of the House of Reginar. He was count of Louvain from 1078 to 1095 and landgrave of Brabant from 1085. ... They had four children, probably all daughters (born about 1092-1096) -> XXIX

XXIX Adelaide of Leuven (died c. 1158) was the wife of Simon I, Duke of Lorraine (1076–1138), in what is now France. She was the daughter of Henry III of Leuven and his wife Gertrude of Flanders. After the death of her husband, Adelaide retired to Tart Abbey. -> XXX

[1094 is her latest date of birth, since her father died 1095 and she had a younger full sister Gertrude, while the wikipedians state these siblings were born 1092 to 1096, I'll assume that 1084 is the terminus a quo, a time at which her mother was 14. For her marriage, I'll cite the French wiki on her husband]

Simon Ier de Lorraine Il épouse en 1112 ou 1113 Adélaïde de Louvain, fille d'Henri III de Louvain et de Gertrude de Flandre, laquelle est la belle-mère de Simon

[In fact, it's improbable she was born as early as 1084, since that would make her marriage undertaken at 29, not just a record high age for a lady so far, but also hardly the best prelude for giving birth to eight children.]

XXX Agatha of Lorraine (c. 1120 – April 1147) was the wife of her relative Reginald III, Count of Burgundy.[1][2] She was the daughter of Simon I, Duke of Lorraine[3] and his wife Adelaide of Leuven.

[Wiki on her husband]

About 1130, Reginald married Agatha, daughter of Duke Simon I of Lorraine.[4] They had a daughter, Beatrice I.[5] -> XXI

XXXI Beatrice I (1143 – 15 November 1184) was countess of Burgundy from 1148 until her death, and was also Holy Roman Empress by marriage to Frederick Barbarossa. She was crowned empress by Antipope Paschal III in Rome on 1 August 1167, and as Queen of Burgundy at Vienne in August 1178.

The wedding between Beatrice and Frederick took on 9 June 1156 at Würzburg.

E, Fifth Lineage:

XXXII Bertrade of Montfort (c. 1070 – 14 February 1117), also known by other names, was a Norman noble from the House of Montfort. She was countess of Anjou (1089–1092) through her first marriage to Fulk the Rude and then queen consort of France (1092–1108) through her initially bigamous marriage to Philip I. Condemned in her era's ecclesiastical histories, she played a role in the popularization of pigache footwear and founded a daughter house of Fontevraud Abbey at Hautes-Bruyeres.

Shortly after their 1089 marriage,[3] Bertrade bore Fulk's son and heir, Fulk V. -> XXXIII

XXXIII Cecile of France (1097 – 1145) was a French princess, daughter of Philip I of France and Bertrade de Montfort. Her first marriage was arranged while Bohemond I of Antioch was visiting the French court seeking support against Alexios I Komnenos. She sailed for Antioch at the end of 1106 and became Lady of Tarsus and Mamistra, in Cilician Armenia. Cecile married firstly (late 1106) Tancred, Prince of Galilee, Regent of Antioch, who succeeded in 1111 as Prince of Antioch.

F, Sixth Lineage:

XXXIV Gisela of Burgundy (1075–1135) was a Countess consort of Savoy[1] and a Marchioness consort of Montferrat. Gisela was the spouse of Humbert II, Count of Savoy and later of Rainier of Montferrat whom she married after Humbert's death. Gisela was the daughter of William I, Count of Burgundy[2] and his consort Stephanie.

[French wiki]

Vers 1090, elle épouse Humbert II, sixième comte en Maurienne, également seigneur du Bugey, d'Aoste et du Chablais et marquis de Suse4,5,6. -> XXXV

XXXV Adelaide of Maurienne, also called Alix or Adele[1] (1092 – 18 November 1154) was Queen of France as the second wife of King Louis VI (1115–1137). ... Adelaide became the second wife of King Louis VI of France, whom she married on 3 August 1115 in Paris, France. -> XXXVI

XXXVI Constance of France (c. 1126 – c. 1190) was a French princess of the House of Capet, the only daughter of Louis VI of France and his wife Adélaide de Maurienne. Amongst her siblings was Louis VII, who succeeded their father in 1137.

In 1140, Constance married Eustace IV, Count of Boulogne, son of Stephen, King of England.[1] The couple were married for thirteen years until Eustace's death, they had no children.

The following year, Constance was married to Raymond V, Count of Toulouse. -> XXXVII

XXXVII French wiki Adélaïde de Toulouse est née à Toulouse vers 1158 et morte en 1200.

La jeune mariée est belle, aux dires des troubadours et son parti est particulièrement avantageux pour Roger II. Le mariage a lieu en 1171.

G, Seventh Lineage:

XXXVIII Dangereuse de l'Isle Bouchard (Poitevin: Dangerosa; 1079 – 1151) was the daughter of Bartholomew of l'Isle Bouchard and his wife Gerberge de Blaison. She was the maternal grandmother of the celebrated Eleanor of Aquitaine. She was also mistress to her granddaughters' paternal grandfather, William IX, Duke of Aquitaine. As the mistress of William the Troubadour, she was known as La Maubergeonne for the tower he built for her at his castle in Poitiers. -> XXXIX

Dangereuse ("Dangerous") was a sobriquet she received for her seductiveness; her baptismal name may have been Amauberge or Amal(a)berge.

Dangereuse married Aimery I, Viscount of Châtellerault, at an unknown date. She advised her husband to donate property to the priory of Saint-Denis-de-Vaux in a charter dated 1109, which means they were married before this point.

Dangereuse and Aimery were married for around seven years before she left her husband to become mistress to Duke William IX; this became an infamous liaison.

Humiliated, in 1116, Philippa [her rival] chose to retire to the Abbey of Fontevrault.

[She was married at the latest at 30, but with 8 children, that is unlikely. I'll set her as married 25 to 29 years old. Wait ... her oldest son must have been born 1098 or 1099, so she was married c. 1097 or 1098, 16 to 19 years old]

XXXIX Aénor of Châtellerault (also known as Aénor de Rochefoucauld), Duchess of Aquitaine, (born c. 1103 in Châtellerault, died March 1130 in Talmont) was the mother of Eleanor of Aquitaine, who became one of the most powerful women of her generation in Europe. [May have been counted twice by mistake] -> XL, XLI

XL Eleanor of Aquitaine (French: Aliénor d'Aquitaine, Éléonore d'Aquitaine, Occitan: Alienòr d'Aquitània, pronounced [aljeˈnɔɾ dakiˈtanjɔ], Latin: Helienordis, Alienorde or Alianor;[a] c. 1124 – 1 April 1204) was Duchess of Aquitaine from 1137 to 1204, Queen of France from 1137 to 1152 as the wife of King Louis VII,[4] and Queen of England from 1154 to 1189 as the wife of King Henry II. As the heiress of the House of Poitiers, which controlled much of southwestern France, she was one of the wealthiest and most powerful women in Western Europe during the High Middle Ages. -> XLIV, L, LX, LXII, LXIX

XLI Petronilla of Aquitaine (c. 1125 – c.1151) was a French noble. She was the second daughter of William X of Aquitaine and Aenor of Châtellerault. She was the elder sister of William Aigret and the younger sister of Eleanor of Aquitaine, who was Queen consort of France, later England. She is variously called Alix (or Aelith in Occitan) and Petronilla; she typically went by Alix after her marriage, while Petronilla seems to have been her childhood name (she is referred to as such in her father's will). -> XLII

XLII Elisabeth (French: Élisabeth), also known as Isabelle Mabille (1143 – Arras, 28 March 1183), was ruling Countess of Vermandois from 1168 to 1183, and also Countess of Flanders by marriage to Philip I, Count of Flanders. She was the eldest daughter of Ralph I, Count of Vermandois and his second spouse, Petronilla of Aquitaine. -> XLIII

XLIII Eleanor of Vermandois (French: Éléonore or Aliéonor or Aénor de Vermandois, 1148 or 1149 – 19 or 21 June 1213) was reigning countess of Vermandois and Valois in 1182–1213 and by marriage countess of Ostervant, Nevers, Auxerre, Boulogne and Beaumont.

XLIV Marie of France (1145 – 11 March 1198) was a Capetian princess who became Countess of Champagne by her marriage to Henry I of Champagne. She served as regent of the County of Champagne three times: during Henry I's absence from 1179-1181; during the minority of their son Henry II from 1181–1187; and during Henry II's absence from 1190-1197. The daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine and Louis VII of France, she was the sister of Alice of France and the half-sister of: William IX, Henry the Young King, Richard I, Geoffrey of Brittany, Matilda of England, Eleanor of England, Joan of England, John of England; Margaret of France, Alys of France, Agnes of France, Philip II of France; and the stepdaughter of Henry II of England, and Constance of Castile, and Adela of Champagne.

In 1153, Marie was betrothed to Henry of Champagne by her father Louis.[4] These betrothals were arranged based on the intervention of Bernard of Clairvaux, as reported in the contemporary chronicle of Radulfus Niger. After her betrothal, Marie was sent to live with the Viscountess Elizabeth of Mareuil-sy-Aÿ and then to the abbey of Avenay in Champagne for her Latin-based education. In 1159, Marie married Henry I, Count of Champagne. -> XLV, XLVI

XLV Marie of Champagne (c. 1174 – 29 August 1204[1]) was the first Latin Empress of Constantinople by marriage to Emperor Baldwin I. She acted as regent of Flanders during the absence of her spouse from 1202 until 1204. / On 6 January 1186, Marie and Baldwin were married at Valenciennes. -> XLVII, XLVIII

XLVI Scholastique of Champagne (also Scholastica;[1] 1172–1219) was the daughter of Marie of France and Count Henry I of Champagne.

XLVII Joan, often called Joan of Constantinople (c. 1199 – 5 December 1244), ruled as Countess of Flanders and Hainaut from 1205 (at the age of six[1]) until her death. She was the elder daughter of Baldwin IX, Count of Flanders and Hainaut, and Marie of Champagne.[2] / In 1211 Enguerrand III of Coucy offered the King the sum of 50,000 livres to marry Joan, while his brother Thomas would marry Margaret. However, the Flemish nobility was hostile to the project. Matilda of Portugal, widow of Joan's granduncle Philip I of Flanders, then offered her nephew, Ferdinand of Portugal, as Joan's husband for the same amount. The marriage was celebrated in Paris in January 1212.[3][4][5] Ferdinand thus became Joan's co-ruler.

XLVIII Margaret, often called Margaret of Constantinople (1202[1] – 10 February 1280), ruled as Countess of Flanders during 1244–1278 and Countess of Hainaut during 1244–1253 and 1257–1280. She was the younger daughter of Baldwin IX, Count of Flanders and Hainaut, and Marie of Champagne.[2] / In the presence of a significant number of bourgeois of Hainaut, she declared she did not want another husband than Bouchard, and before 23 July 1212 they were married.[4] Margaret was then twelve years old, while her new husband was twenty-eight. -> IL

IL Joan of Dampierre (c. 1225–1245/1246) was the eldest daughter of Margaret II, Countess of Flanders, and William II of Dampierre. / In 1239, her mother arranged her to be wed to count Hugh III of Rethel. Margaret stipulated that her dowry should be returned in case the count died without giving Joan a child. When this indeed happened, the money was refunded.

L Alix of France (July/August 1150 – 1197/1198) was countess consort of Blois by marriage to Theobald. She served as regent of Blois during Theobald's absence from in 1190–1191, and during the minority of their son Louis from 1191 until 1197. She was the daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine and Louis VII of France. / In 1164, at age 14, Alix married Theobald, [2] who had previously attempted to abduct Alix's mother to force her into a marriage with him. Her sister Marie married Theobald's brother Henry I, Count of Champagne. -> LI, LVIII

LI Margaret of Blois (French: Marguerite; died 1230) was suo jure Countess of Blois in France from 1218 to 1230. From 1190 to 1200, she was the countess consort of the County of Burgundy and then regent for her daughters from 1200 until 1208.[1] -> LII, LIII, LVII

LII Joan I (1191–1205), also called Joanna of Hohenstaufen, was ruling Countess of Burgundy from 1200 to 1205. She was daughter of Otto I, Count of Burgundy, and Margaret, Countess of Blois. [Died at 14, unmarried]

LIII Beatrice II (1193 – 7 May 1231) reigned as Countess Palatine of Burgundy from 1205 until her death.[1][2] She was a member of the Swabian Hohenstaufen dynasty, the daughter of Count Otto I of Burgundy and Margaret, Countess of Blois,[3] thereby a granddaughter of Emperor Frederick Barbarossa. / In 1208 she married Duke Otto I, Duke of Merania. -> LIV, LV, LVI

LIV Agnes of Merania (c. 1215 – 7 January 1263) was a member of the House of Andechs and an Austrian royal consort.[1] By her two marriages, she was Duchess of Austria (AEIOU!) from 1230 until 1243 and Duchess of Carinthia from 1256 until her death. / In 1229 she married Frederick of Babenberg, son and heir of Duke Leopold VI of Austria. Her husband, who was known as "the Quarrelsome",[2] had just divorced his first wife Eudokia Laskarina ("Sophia"), a daughter of the Byzantine emperor Theodore I Laskaris, due to childlessness. He succeeded his father as Austrian duke in 1230. Based on the dowry of his wife including large Andechs estates in the March of Carniola and the Windic March, he also began to call himself a "Lord of Carniola" from 1232.

LV Beatrix of Merania (1210 – 9 February 1271) was a princess of Merania by birth, and the Countess of Weimar-Orlamünde by marriage. [She married, but at unknown date]

LVI Adelaide of Merania (Adélaïde or Alice, Alix – died 8 March 1279, Évian) was reigning Countess of Burgundy from 1248 until her death. She was also Countess of Savoy and Bresse through her marriage in 1267 to Count Philip I of Savoy. [Birthdate unknown to English wikipedians, but see this about her in French wiki] Naissance: 1218

LVII Mary, Countess of Blois, also known as Marie of Avesnes, (1200–1241) was countess of Blois from 1230 to 1241. She was the daughter of Walter of Avesnes and Margaret of Blois.[1] In 1226, Mary married Hugh I of Châtillon, a count from Châtillon-sur-Marne, son of Gaucher III of Châtillon and Elisabeth of Saint-Pol.

LVIII Isabelle of Blois or Elizabeth of Blois (died 1248 or 1249) was the lady of Amboise by marriage and from 1218 until her death the countess of Chartres in her own right. / Isabelle (Elizabeth) was born probably before 1180. / Isabelle was married twice. In 1190, she was married to Sulpice III of Amboise [fr]. -> LIX

LIX Matilda of Amboise (Mahaut, Mathilde d'Amboise; c. 1200 ‒ 12 May 1256) was the Countess of Chartres 1248-1256. She was the daughter of Sulpice III of Amboise and Isabella of Blois.

LX Matilda of England (June 1156 — June/July 1189) was an English princess of the House of Plantagenet[a] and by marriage Duchess consort of Saxony and Bavaria from 1168 until her husband's deposition in 1180.

LXI Matilda of Saxony, or Richenza of Saxony (1172-13 January 1209/10) was the Countess of Perche followed by the title of Lady of Coucy from the German Welf dynasty. She was also the niece of Richard the Lionheart. / Matilda married Geoffrey III, Count of Perche in 1189.

LXII Eleanor of England (Spanish: Leonor; c. 1161[1] – 31 October 1214[2][3]), was Queen of Castile and Toledo[4] as wife of Alfonso VIII of Castile.[5][6] She was the sixth child and second daughter of Henry II, King of England, and Eleanor of Aquitaine.[7][8] She served as Regent of Castile during the minority of her son Henry I for 26 days between the death of her spouse and her own death in 1214.[9] -> LXIII, LXVI, LXVIII, LXX

LXIII Berengaria (Castilian: Berenguela), nicknamed the Great (Castilian: la Grande) (1179 or 1180 – 8 November 1246), was Queen of Castile[1] for a brief time in 1217, and Queen of León from 1197 to 1204 as the second wife of King Alfonso IX. -> LXIV

[Berengaria's first engagement was agreed in 1187 when her hand was sought by Conrad, the fifth child of Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa.[10] The next year, the marriage contract was signed in Seligenstadt, including a dowry of 42000 Maravedí.[10] Conrad then marched to Castile, where in Carrión the engagement was celebrated and Conrad was knighted[11] making him a servant of his new lord, Alfonso. Berengaria's claim to the throne was based in part on documentation in the treaty and marriage contract,[12][13] which specified that she would inherit the kingdom after her father or any childless brothers who might come along.[12] Conrad would only be allowed to co-rule as her spouse, and Castile would not become part of the Empire.[10] Furthermore, he was not allowed to claim the throne for himself in case of Alfonso's death, but was obliged to defend and protect the kingdom until Berengaria arrived.[14] The treaty also documented traditional rights and obligations between the future sovereign and the nobility.[15]

The marriage was not consummated because Berengaria was less than 10 years old.[16] Conrad and Berengaria never saw each other again.[17] By 1191, Berengaria requested an annulment of the engagement from the pope, influenced, no doubt, by third parties such as her grandmother Duchess Eleanor of Aquitaine, who was not interested in having a Hohenstaufen as a neighbor to her French fiefdoms.[17] Those fears were neutralized when Conrad was assassinated in 1196.[17]]

Berengaria married King Alfonso IX of León, her first cousin once removed, in Valladolid in 1197.

LXIV Berengaria of León[a] (1204 – 12 April 1237) was the third wife but only empress consort of John of Brienne, Latin Emperor of Constantinople. She was a daughter of Alfonso IX of León and Berengaria of Castile.[1] She was a younger sister of Ferdinand III of Castile and Alfonso of Molina. -> LXV

LXV Marie of Brienne (c. 1224–1275) was Latin Empress as the wife of Baldwin II of Courtenay. She served as regent during the absence of Baldwin II twice: in 1237–1239, and in 1243–1257. / Their marriage took place in 1234. The bride was about ten years old, the groom seventeen. Their marriage was recorded in the chronicle of Alberic of Trois-Fontaines. By her marriage, Marie became the junior co-empress of the Latin Empire, the senior one being her mother.

LXVI Urraca of Castile (1186/28 May 1187 – 3 November 1220) was a daughter of Alfonso VIII of Castile[1] and Eleanor of England.[2] Her maternal grandparents were Henry II of England and Eleanor of Aquitaine. -> LXVII

LXVII Eleanor of Portugal (Portuguese: Leonor [liuˈnoɾ]; c. 1211 – 28 August 1231) was a Portuguese infanta, the only daughter of Afonso II of Portugal and Urraca of Castile, Queen of Portugal.[1] Eleanor was Queen of Denmark by marriage to Valdemar the Young, son of Valdemar II, in 1229.[2]

LXVIII Blanche of Castile (Spanish: Blanca de Castilla; 4 March 1188 – 27 November 1252) was Queen of France by marriage to Louis VIII. She acted as regent twice during the reign of her son, Louis IX: during his minority from 1226 until 1234, and during his absence from 1248 until 1252.

Blanche was twelve years of age, and Louis was only a year older, by the time the marriage treaty was finally signed. King John ceded the fiefs of Issoudun and Graçay as a dowry. The marriage was celebrated 23 May 1200, at Port-Mort on the right bank of the Seine, in John's domains, as those of Philip lay under an interdict.[5][6] Blanche bore her first child in 1205.[3] -> LXIX

LXIX Isabelle of France (March 1225 – 23 February 1270) was a French princess and daughter of Louis VIII of France and Blanche of Castile. She was a younger sister of King Louis IX of France (Saint Louis) and of Alfonso, Count of Poitiers, and an older sister of King Charles I of Sicily. In 1256, she founded the nunnery of Longchamp in part of the Forest of Rouvray (now called the Bois de Boulogne), west of Paris. Isabelle consecrated her virginity and her entire life to God alone. She is honored as a saint by the Franciscan Order. Her feast day is 22 February.

LXX Eleanor of Castile[1] (1200[2][3]—1244) was Queen of Aragon by her marriage to King James I of Aragon. / Eleanor was the daughter of Alfonso VIII of Castile and Eleanor of England. In 1221 at Ágreda, Eleanor married King James I of Aragon; she was nineteen and he was fourteen.

[Like here niece above, she died in a monastery.]

LXXI Joan of England (October 1165 – 4 September 1199) was by marriage Queen of Sicily and Countess of Toulouse. She was the seventh child of King Henry II of England and Duchess Eleanor of Aquitaine. From her birth, she was destined to make a political and royal marriage. She married William II of Sicily and later Raymond VI, Count of Toulouse, two very important and powerful figures in the political landscape of Medieval Europe.

... After a hazardous voyage, Joan arrived safely in Palermo, and on 13 February 1177, she married King William and was crowned Queen of Sicily at Palermo Cathedral.

Deaths at:
14 20 21 22 26 28 28 30 31 33 33 33 34 34 37 38 38
13 18 19 20 23 25 25 28 29 32 32 33 33 33 35 37 37
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
40 40 41 41 41 42 43 44 44 45 46 46 46 47 47 48 48 48 48 48 48
38 39 39 40 40 41 41 41 41 43 43 44 44 45 45 45 46 46 46 46 46
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38
48 48 51 53 53 53 55 56 57 57 57 60 60 61 61 61 62
47 47 48 50 51 52 52 53 54 55 55 56 59 59 60 60 61
39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55
64 65 65 66 67 68 71 71 72 75 76 78 81 81 84
62 62 63 64 65 66 66 69 69 71 73 77 78 79 81
56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70

Died after 59, 17 to 21 / 70, 24.286 to 30 %.

Middle two quartiles died 40 to 61 or 38 to 60.

Married at:
09 09 10 10 11 11 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 13 13 14
09 09 09 09 09 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 11 11 12 12
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
14 14 14 14 14 15 15 15 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 17 18 18 18
12 12 12 12 12 12 13 13 13 13 13 13 14 14 14 14 14 15 15 15 15
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38
18 18 19 19 19 19 20 20 20 20 20 20 21 21 21 21 21
16 16 16 16 16 17 17 17 17 18 19 19 19 19 19 19 19
39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 56
22 22 22 23 24 25 25 25 25 26 29
19 20 20 20 22 22 23 23 24 25 25
57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67

Married before 15 : 22 to 34 / 67, 32.836 to 50.746 %.

Middle two quartiles married, 14 to 20 or 12 to 19.

It was nearly eery, how added stat after added stat, the middle of deaths stats was 48 higher and 46 lower count, and the middle of marriages was 17 higher count and 14 lower count.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Xth LD after Pentecost
28.VII.2024

Monday, May 1, 2023

John Augustine Zahm Abusing his Patron Saint


No, I don't mean John the Baptist or John the Beloved. I mean Augustine of Hippo.

I was listening to a podcast on The Church and Evolution. Distractly, but still. It's 89 on The Catholic History Trek.

I am not confident that they are right to say that to Maimonides the days in Genesis 1 could be long periods, but they were certainly wrong to suggest that Christianity came out of Maimonides' type of Judaism and that therefore Christianity from the first would have held that too. Whether or not it's even "too" ...

I then came to John Augustine Zahm (a priest) and how his book Evolution and Dogma was nearly put on the Index, except he withdrew it.

I checked his biography on wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Augustine_Zahm

I found also:
J. A. Zahm (1896), Scientific theory and Catholic doctrine, Chicago: D. H. McBride & Co., OL 7187109M (Full Text)

The link in "Full Text" is to the cover of the book. Here is a specific page:

https://archive.org/details/scientifictheory00zahmuoft/page/126/mode/2up

Click to enlarge to read, I lifted up the lower part of page 126 to the top, visibly intruding on the text actually on top, so as to show I am making a shortcut:



On page 127, he speaks of seeds laying dormant for long aeons:

They lay dormant as it were, until long aeons after the creation of matter ...


Here is a quote from On the Trinity, Book III, chapter 8, quoting all of § 13 but leaving out §§14 and 15:

13. Yet it is not on this account to be thought that the matter of visible things is subservient to the bidding of those wicked angels; but rather to that of God, by whom this power is given, just so far as He, who is unchangeable, determines in His lofty and spiritual abode to give it. For water and fire and earth are subservient even to wicked men, who are condemned to the mines, in order that they may do therewith what they will, but only so far as is permitted. Nor, in truth, are those evil angels to be called creators, because by their means the magicians, withstanding the servant of God, made frogs and serpents; for it was not they who created them. But, in truth, some hidden seeds of all things that are born corporeally and visibly, are concealed in the corporeal elements of this world. For those seeds that are visible now to our eyes from fruits and living things, are quite distinct from the hidden seeds of those former seeds; from which, at the bidding of the Creator, the water produced the first swimming creatures and fowl, and the earth the first buds after their kind, and the first living creatures after their kind. For neither at that time were those seeds so drawn forth into products of their several kinds, as that the power of production was exhausted in those products; but oftentimes, suitable combinations of circumstances are wanting, whereby they may be enabled to burst forth and complete their species. For, consider, the very least shoot is a seed; for, if fitly consigned to the earth, it produces a tree. But of this shoot there is a yet more subtle seed in some grain of the same species, and this is visible even to us. But of this grain also there is further still a seed, which, although we are unable to see it with our eyes, yet we can conjecture its existence from our reason; because, except there were some such power in those elements, there would not so frequently be produced from the earth things which had not been sown there; nor yet so many animals, without any previous commixture of male and female; whether on the land, or in the water, which yet grow, and by commingling bring forth others, while themselves sprang up without any union of parents. And certainly bees do not conceive the seeds of their young by commixture, but gather them as they lie scattered over the earth with their mouth. For the Creator of these invisible seeds is the Creator of all things Himself; since whatever comes forth to our sight by being born, receives the first beginnings of its course from hidden seeds, and takes the successive increments of its proper size and its distinctive forms from these as it were original rules. As therefore we do not call parents the creators of men, nor farmers the creators of grain — although it is by the outward application of their actions that the power of God operates within for the creating these things — so it is not right to think not only the bad but even the good angels to be creators, if, through the subtlety of their perception and body, they know the seeds of things which to us are more hidden, and scatter them secretly through fit temperings of the elements, and so furnish opportunities of producing things, and of accelerating their increase. But neither do the good angels do these things, except as far as God commands, nor do the evil ones do them wrongfully, except as far as He righteously permits. For the malignity of the wicked one makes his own will wrongful; but the power to do so, he receives rightfully, whether for his own punishment, or, in the case of others, for the punishment of the wicked, or for the praise of the good.


The quote contains most of what John Augustine Zahm actually said in the quoted paragraph. But it does - let's insist on it - not contain the word "aeons" - and also, it is pretty clear that what St. Augustine is saying is God created embryonic beings, and brought embrya miraculously to fruition in fully matured examples, presumably on the creation days.

It's really dishonest to quotemine St. Augustine of Hippo to "prove" he approved of Evolution.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Joseph Workman
1.V.2023

Tuesday, April 25, 2023

Wrong Question Answered, Melissa


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: AiG Seem to be Wrong on How Long one's a Child · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Wrong Question Answered, Melissa

What question does this answer? This quote:

Maintaining the trend, by the end of the 19th century, the median age when women were first getting married was between 22 and 24 years old, and this tendency continued into the 1940s.

In fact, the lowest median age of first marriage since the early 1700s was had by the baby boom generation, where the age dropped to 20.5 years in 1950.


It answers the question whether the median age at first marriage was teens, and the answer was obviously no.

What was the question in the title?

WHEN DID TEEN GIRLS STOP COMMONLY GETTING MARRIED?
February 18, 2014 Melissa, Today I Found Out
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/02/teen-girls-stop-commonly-getting-married/


The question was not whether teen girls at a given point in time were getting married in over 50 % of the cases (in which case the median age would certainly be in the teens). It was whether the practise was common, or was seen as exceptional.*

Let's go to Percent Ever Married for 15–19. The decades refer to "birth cohorts"**...

Southern-born Whites, Males, the 1821 - 1830 has 3.4 % and 1871 - 1880 it is down to 2.0 %.
Let's go to Females, the 1821 - 1830 has 17.3 % and the 1871 - 1880 it is down to 16.5 %.

If 16.5 - 17.3 won't land the median age at marriage into the teens, it is also certainly not "uncommon" ....

Now, let's go to Mean Age at Marriage - it doesn't say "mean age at first marriage" even ...

Southern-born Whites, Males, those born 1821 - 1830, it's 26.4 years and those born 1871 - 1880, it's 26.3 years.
Let's go to Females, the birth cohort 1821 - 1830, it's 22.2 years, and those born 1871 - 1880, it's rising to 22.5 years.

Perhaps the reason isn't they were frowning on teen marriages, but that losing the Civil War made it less affordable to white ladies of the South?

Anyway, a teen girl married born in 1875 and married by 1890 or before 1895 was nothing exceptional, even if it was not the most common occurrence either. Melissa on Today I Found Out did a sloppy job in 2014. After all, she could have gone to Journal of Southern History in 2010, I could find it with a google on:

age at first marriage us census 19th c


But even more - simple knowledge of mathematics, statistics, would mean that "median" is not the same as "minimum" any more than the same as "maximum" ..

However, she was right to quote:

Medieval Maidens: Young Women and Gender in England, C.1270-c.1540
Kim M. Philips, Manchester University Press, 28 June 2003 - 246 pages
https://books.google.fr/books?id=mHscM7ofx_AC


It seems, while nobility married girls off at median 16 in the Middle Ages (after my own statistics) there was a sizeable portion of a non-noble sample that married between 18 and 22. Could it be, again, because the non-nobles were less readily affording marriage at 16?

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Mark the Gospeller
25.IV.2023

Alexandriae natalis beati Marci Evangelistae. Hic, discipulus et interpres Apostoli Petri, rogatus Romae a fratribus scripsit Evangelium, quo assumpto, perrexit in Aegyptum, primusque Alexandriae Christum annuntians, constituit Ecclesiam; ac postea, pro fide Christi tentus, funibus vinctus et per saxa raptatus, graviter afflictus est; deinde, reclusus in carcere, primo angelica visitatione confortatus est, et demum, ipso Domino sibi apparente, ad caelestia regna vocatus, octavo Neronis anno.

ERRATUM, I seem to have mixed up table 1 and table 2. It's table 2 that is

Nuptiality Measures for the Native-Born White Population by Birth Cohort and Section of Birth


and where I found the stats I gave. Table one starts out in 1850 and is not restricted to Native White, but would include immigration from Europe, possibly also people born in Viejo Norte prior to its becoming US States.

In table 1, West–North Central Census Region starts out with 20.5 % women married 15 - 19 in 1850, but it sinks to 13 % by 1880, West–South Central Census Region has over 24 % in 1850 and 1880, somewhat below that, but above 20 % in 1860 and 1870, and Mountain and Pacific Census Regions has 32.4 % in 1860 (no stats for 1850), down to 27.5 % in 1870, and to 15.1 % in 1880. Probably the growing affluence means, it becomes harder and harder to marry young in this region./HGL

* I'll be taking my statistics from here:

The Effect of the Civil War on Southern Marriage Patterns
J South Hist. 2010 Feb; 76(1): 39–70.
J. David Hacker, Libra Hilde, and James Holland Jones
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3002115/


Specifically,

Table 1, Nuptiality Measures for the White Population of the United States, 1850–1880, source: 1850–1880 IPUMS samples,


further explanation in a footnote:

Only white marriage patterns can be ascertained in the prewar period; the 1850 and 1860 censuses enumerated slaves in a separate, more limited population schedule, and because the slave schedule did not group or identify family members, it is impossible to infer marital status and estimate age at marriage. These samples are part of the Integrated Public Use Microdata Series (IPUMS) created at the Minnesota Population Center (University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus, Minneapolis). Ruggles Steven, et al. Integrated Public Use Microdata Series: Version 3.0. Minneapolis: 2004.....


** In other words, if 17.3 % of the Southern girls' birth cohort 1821 to 1830 were married at a date before 20, this means that of 1000 girls born that decade, even counting those who died before the teens, perhaps only 950 survived to the teens, perhaps less, 173 married before age 20.

Thursday, March 2, 2023

"The Middle Ages Invented Nothing, It was Technological Progress Put on Pause" - "Do you Have a Screw Loose?"


I think the answer would be apt to the above allegation about the Middle Ages. It would perhaps not be the best response to a person making it, due to Matthew 5:22, but it would certainly be oddly fit to the allegation itself. Because the kind of screws that can be loose or tightly pulled were actually invented by the Middle Ages.

"Hey, wait, the screw was known in Antiquity!"

Let's make a distinction, shall we.

There is screw as a specific tool, sometimes pointed, turned into a hole in a thick material, and sometimes flat bolts and attached by a nut on the other side.
There is also screw as "simple machine" - in the sense that mechanics is a science dealing with very few "simple machines" ...

Lever, Wheel and axle, Pulley, Inclined plane, Wedge, Screw


What is a "simple machine" then?

Simple machines can be regarded as the elementary "building blocks" of which all more complicated machines (sometimes called "compound machines"[6][7]) are composed.[2][8] For example, wheels, levers, and pulleys are all used in the mechanism of a bicycle.


So, the screw that can be loose or tight is also a composite of simple machines? Yes:

A screw is a combination of simple machines: it is, in essence, an inclined plane wrapped around a central shaft, but the inclined plane (thread) also comes to a sharp edge around the outside, which acts as a wedge as it pushes into the fastened material, and the shaft and helix also form a wedge at the point. Some screw threads are designed to mate with a complementary thread, called a female thread (internal thread), often in the form of a nut object with an internal thread. Other screw threads are designed to cut a helical groove in a softer material as the screw is inserted. The most common uses of screws are to hold objects together and to position objects.


Note, screw as simple machine is not even one of them.*

Now, what was known in antiquity? The simple machine "screw." It was used in Archimede's screw and in screw presses for pressing wine and oil. What was not known in antiquity? The screw as fastener. A German wiki pretends that yes, in Late Antiquity, they were also used in fibulas of the very mighty. If this is so, it could be verified by a work from 1995. Here:

Erste Metallschrauben wurden vereinzelt in der römischen Antike angefertigt, wie beispielsweise die Nadelhalter an mehreren Zwiebelknopffibeln aus dem 4. Jahrhundert, die als von den Römischen Kaisern vergebene prunkvolle Rangabzeichen nicht nur aus wertvollen Metallen, sondern auch technisch besonders aufwändig gestaltet waren.


With the reference:

Barbara Deppert-Lippitz, Reinhold Würth (Hrsg.):
Die Schraube zwischen Macht und Pracht: das Gewinde in der Antike.
Thorbecke, Sigmaringen 1995, ISBN 3-7995-3628-0, S. 88–89 (Ausstellungskatalog).
https://www.amazon.de/Schraube-zwischen-Pracht-Gewinde-Antike/dp/3799536280


So, if at all, then as a very luxurious fashion detail in the time of Constantine and Theodosius ... but the next example:

Ebenso wurden zu Beginn des 15. Jahrhunderts Metallschrauben in Europa gefertigt, die sich aber wegen ihres hohen Preises ebenfalls nicht allgemein durchsetzen konnten. Erst die Industrialisierung im 18. Jahrhundert ermöglichte die preiswerte und massenhafte Herstellung und weite Verbreitung von Schrauben.


These early 15th C. (i e Late Medieval) metal screws certainly were what we mean. And no, they were not in common use, among the people, but they were used for instance to fasten the parts of plate armour together. The principle of a fastener shaped as a screw had been definitely made. And its purpose was practical, without it, the plate armour would fall off and not protect one.

A bit later, about 100 years later, you find a related invention, the vice, which is described in the Löffelholz Codex from 1505. An unpleasant application of it is the thumbscrew - starting from Early Modern Times.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Chad of Lichfield
2.III.2023

* It's possible that the line is somewhat moot. It's not based on my expertise in mechanics, just on the wording of the wiki.

Tuesday, October 18, 2022

Quand commence la crise moderniste ? Peut-être en 1812


C'est alors que Giuseppe Settele prête le serment de loyauté à Napoléon I, pour pouvoir enseigner à Rome.

De toute manière, la sémence est faite en 1823, quand il obtint son imprimatur pour le manuel en physique qui enseigne l'héliocentrisme ou plutôt hélio-focalisme relatif. Ce ne serait pas condamné en 1633 ? Attention ... Giordano Bruno enseignait l'héliocentrisme relatif. C'est vrai qu'il fut brûlé plutôt pour son panthéisme, mais quand même ... dans cette âme de dominicain, l'héliocentrisme relatif, la pluralité des "mondes" ou comme le dirait Settele "systèmes solaires" avait conduit à nier que Dieu tourne l'Univers, quasi "ab extra" autour de la Terre, pour dire plutôt qu'Il tournât la Terre (pourquoi pas quasi "ab intra" ?) autour d'elle-même, et que Dieu serait donc imminent, et en plus, vu qu'on pouvait attendre des exoplanètes, en plus pluriel ?

De toute manière, il y avait un passage de la Bible, un consensus patristique et donc une importance théologique pour les juges de 1633, confirmés par le pape Urbain VIII, qui n'avait pas lui-même siégé comme juge.

Le géocentrisme a au minimum une apparence à première vue de faire partie de la tradition.

Le verdict de 1823 est pris comme "on peut croire l'hélio-focalisme relatif sans de se damner" un peu comme Humani Generis sera pris comme "on peut croire qu'Adam avait d'ancêtres biologiques sans de se damner" .... bien que ni l'un, ni l'autre de ces deux documents ne le dit.

Quelle serait l'importance entre héliocentrisme absolu et héliofocalisme relatif, quand les deux changent le mouvement diurne qui pour tant de siècles de géocentriques à été la preuve de l'existence de Dieu la plus éclatante dans l'univers naturel est observable ? Et quand les deux demandent de lire Josué 10 autrement que selon les Pères de l'Église et moins directement ?

Prenons d'abord la preuve de Dieu* :

I. Primo autem ponemus rationes quibus Aristoteles procedit ad probandum Deum esse. Qui hoc probare intendit ex parte motus duabus viis.

1. Quarum prima talis est: omne quod movetur, ab alio movetur. Patet autem sensu aliquid moveri, utputa solem. Ergo alio movente movetur. Aut ergo illud movens movetur, aut non. Si non movetur, ergo habemus propositum, quod necesse est ponere aliquod movens immobile. Et hoc dicimus Deum. Si autem movetur, ergo ab alio movente movetur. Aut ergo est procedere in infinitum: aut est devenire ad aliquod movens immobile. Sed non est procedere in infinitum. Ergo necesse est ponere aliquod primum movens immobile.


Je traduis** :

I. En premier nous posons les raisons par lesquels Aristote procède à prouver que Dieu existe. Et il entend de le prouver de la part de la mation en deux manières.

1. Dont la première est ainsi : tout ce qui bouge / est mu est mis en motion / est mu par autre chose que lui-même. Mais il est apparent au sens que quelque-chose bouge, par exemple le soleil. Donc il bouge parce que autre chose le met en motion. Donc, soit ce mettant en motion bouge, soit non. S'il ne bouge pas, nous avons le propos, qu'il est nécessaire de poser un mettant en motion lui-même immobile. Et ceci nous appelons Dieu. Mais s'il est mis en motion alors par un autre mettant en motion. Donc il faudra soit procéder [de même manière] dans l'infini - soit arriver à quelque mettant en motion immobile. Mais on n'a pas à procéder dans l'infini. Donc il faut poser un premier mettant en motion immobile.


Sans que l'univers soit compris dans une seule motion, celui des astres autour de la terre, on peut philosophiquement s'égarer (comme le prouve Bruno) en pluralité de dieux, parce que pluralité de motions.

Changer héliocentrisme absolu pour héliocentrisme (ou héliofocalisme) relatif, avec d'autres systèmes pareils ailleurs, ne fait qu'aggraver le problème.

Changer le mettant en motion divin pour un mettant en motion purement physical, à effet physical répond donc seule une cause physicale, rend la preuve de Dieu caduque. Pas toute preuve de Dieu, bien entendu, mais celle-ci - celle que Saint Thomas jugeait dans l'autre version, en I, Q2, A3, comme "la première est la plus apparente" - loin que ce serait une lubie personnelle de ma part de voire dans la Prima Via une preuve de Dieu par géocentrisme, Riccioli était d'accord : puisqu'il jugeait qu'il n'y avait pas une motion commune de tout l'univers, du ciel, mais juste des motions au pluriel, chaque étoile ou planète mu par son propre ange vers l'Ouest*** et il renonce à la preuve de St. Thomas. Il y préfère, je pense, celui de Décartes.

Ensuite, l'enjeu biblique, Josué 10 :

11 Comme ils fuyaient devant Israël, à la descente de Béthoron, Yahweh fit tomber du ciel sur eux de grosses pierres jusqu'à Azéca, et ils moururent ; ceux qui moururent par les pierres de grêle furent plus nombreux que ceux qui furent tués par l'épée des enfants d'Israël. 12 Alors Josué parla à Yahweh, le jour où Yahweh livra les Amorrhéens aux enfants d'Israël, et il dit à la vue d'Israël : Soleil, arrête-toi sur Gabaon, et toi, lune, sur la vallée d'Ajalon ! 13 Et le soleil s'arrêta, et la lune se tint immobile, jusqu'à ce que la nation se fut vengée de ses ennemis. Cela n'est-il pas écrit dans le livre du Juste ? Et le soleil s'arrêta au milieu du ciel, et ne se hâta point de se coucher, presque un jour entier. 14 Il n'y eut pas, ni avant ni après, de jour comme celui-là, où Yahweh obéit à la voix d'un homme ; car Yahweh combattait pour Israël.

On a, à satiété, élaboré que le verset 13, où c'est dit que "le soleil s'arrêta" pourrait être un mode de parler phénoménologique : si la Terre cessait de sa rotation diurne, que les héliocentriques de tous les bords lui attribuent, alors ça serait vu comme quoi c'est le soleil qui cesse de bouger.

Mais à part le fait qu'il n'y a pas un seul Père de l'Église qui expose Josué 10 ainsi, à part le fait que ceci donne une lecture moins directe de la Sainte Bible, c'est aussi oublier le verset 12.

Analysons. Ce n'est pas dit que Josué priait à Dieu à haute voix en Lui demandant de faire demeurer le soleil. Alors, certains diraient, Dieu aurait pu exaucer la prière même si elle contenait une erreur scientifique, Dieu sachant bien entendu ce qu'Il fit réellement s'arrêter. Est-ce que ceci vaut aussi quand l'exaucement est un miracle, c'est à dire un signe, c'est à dire une vérité ? Je ne pense pas.

Mais ce qui est dit est autre chose. D'abord, Josué prie en silence. Ensuite, devant Israël, il commande au soleil et à la lune.° Les mots de Josué que nous avons ne sont pas une prière, c'est la commande d'un thaumaturge, d'un faiseur de miracle. Dieu l'a donné l'autorité de dire ce qui se passera, il le fait, donc, il parle au nom de Dieu, et ceci à soleil et à lune.

L'enjeu biblique est que, quand un thaumaturge parle, il s'adresse à ce qui doit changer comportement. Ceci vaut pour l'autre Josué, Jésus de Nazareth, aussi, Celui qui est Dieu de Dieu et Vrai Dieu de Vrai Dieu. Pour un lèpre ou pour un lépreux, Il pourrait s'adresser à l'un ou l'autre, la lèpre doit cesser d'exister, le lépreux doit devenir pur. Pour l'orage, il s'adresse pas au bateau de se tenir stable, il s'adresse aux orage qui l'instabilisent.

Et pour les démons expulsés ? Les Luthériens suédois du 19. S. ont connu (pas tous partagé) une théorie dite d'accomodation. Dieu accomoderait Ses expressions même à des erreurs culturelles. Ces démoniaques auraient été des malades mentaux, il n'aurait pas eu de démons à qui s'adresser, et Jésus se serait adressé aux démons quand même, tout en sachant qu'ils n'existassent pas, en les expulsant d'hommes, pour s'accomoder à une erreur culturelle importée des Babyloniens. Exit donc l'exorcisme (superstition de ces "papistes" qui ont les sept ordres mineurs, dont "exorciste"), et le psychiatre s'en occupera dans le futur.

À ceci, on doit s'opposer en disant : non, les démons existent, et parfois Dieu tolère qu'ils fassent une possession, et Jésus en a fini quelques ravages comme ça. Autant donc dire, Josué aussi s'est adressé aux entités qui devaient changer le comportement pour l'occasion. C'est à dire, verset 12 exclut toute lecture hormis le géocentrisme pur.

On n'a pas eu ces discussions, pas en profondeur approprié, on s'était accomodé à des discussions plutôt centrées sur l'éthique, le pape a permis qu'on lise Settele, plus tard un autre va tolérer qu'on lise Galilée, deux autres vont faire allusion à la question, sans de se prononcer pour l'héliocentrisme (Benoît XV lui accorde un peut-être dans le subjonctif dans une subordonnée dans un document dont le thème n'est pas astronomique ou biblique mais littéraire, Léon XIII ne l'a même pas mentionné directement). Mais tous ces papes, Pie VII, Grégoire XVI, Léon XIII, Benoît XV, s'ils n'ont pas subverti la condamnation de 1633, se comportent au moins vers le public comme si elle ne serait plus intéressante.

Comme dit, vers 1820 ... 1920, à Paris, l'article Hexaméron, dans Dictionnaire de Théologie Catholique, VI-II, Ghezzi - Hizler, 1920 (un des éditeurs, Mangenot, était aussi l'auteur de l'article), on cesse de prendre Genèse 1 comme de vraie histoire, avec l'imprimatur de l'archevêque sans doute, et 2021 un Sébastien Antoni, censé être Assomptionniste, se considère dispensé de Trente Session V parce qu'il a rélégué l'existence individuelle d'Adam et d'Ève aux mêmes phantomes de musée que le géocentrisme.

Si j'ai quitté le Luthéranisme en me convertissant au Catholicisme, ce n'était pas pour avoir quelque chose encore plus moderne que la théorie d'accomodation.°° C'était pour me débarasser de cette modernité. Avec en prime les modernités du 16. S.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Luc Évangéliste
18.X.2022

* Summa contra Gentiles, lib. 1, cap. 13
https://musicasacra.forumfree.it/?t=9761763


** Je sais que certaines formulations sont enfantines, parce que non techniques. C'est voulu. Le terminus technicus d'un scholastique est assez souvent un substantif ou verbe ou participe de verbe tellement commun qu'on l'apprend quand on est petit. C'est la discussion, pas la terminologie, qui est avancée. Et elle est avancée parce que soutenue, parce que non interrompu par des modernes "mais bien-sûr faudra pas dire ça" ou "bien entendu ça ne veut pas dire ça" ...

*** Chez St. Thomas, le soleil est mu par son ange vers l'Est, autour du Zodiac, et par Dieu, avec le Zodiac, 365 1/4 fois plus vite vers l'Ouest, par Dieu.

° Il y a deux qui obéissent pour chaque astre : Dieu en faisant cesser le mouvement de l'Est vers l'ouest, l'ange propre en arrêtant le mouvement de l'Ouest vers l'Est à travers le Zodiac. Dieu est mentionné ici, verset 14, l'ange propre est mentionné (nommé comme l'astre) en Habacuc 3:11.

°° Exemple plus récent : Jésus n'a pas pris d'apôtres féminins parmi les douze ou les 70, donc les femmes ne sont pas clergé. Subverti par l'idée qu'Il se serait juste accomodée à la misogynie de l'époque.