Unclarity of the French Language - Or of His Memory?

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: "Martyn Iles presents Living in Babylon" · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Unclarity of the French Language - Or of His Memory?

Sometimes French is unclear.

Not all of the time, but at more than one occasion, where English isn't.

Here is Ezechiel 26:7, in English:

For thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will bring against Tyre Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon, the king of kings, from the north, with horses, and chariots, and horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Now look at this French one:

Car ainsi parle le Seigneur, l'Eternel: Voici, j'amène du septentrion contre Tyr Nebucadnetsar, roi de Babylone, le roi des rois, avec des chevaux, des chars, des cavaliers, et une grande multitude de peuples.

Now imagine a truncated memory of this:

j'amène du septentrion contre Tyr Nebucadnetsar, roi de Babylone

Or even:

j'amène du septentrion contre Tyr le roi Nebucadnetsar, de Babylone

Do you analyse it as God bringing against Tyre from the North someone who is "le roi Nebucadnetsar, de Babylone"?

Or is "le roi Nebucadnetsar" being brought "du septentrion contre Tyr ... de Babylone"?

In English, this confusion is impossible. The second would have been "from Babylon" and the former is, what we also have in the text, "of Babylon" ....

Edward Camps used this, confusing "of" with "from" (makes me wonder if he's French or has been living in France for very long) to prove that "from Babylon" is designated as "from the North" even if Babylon is actually East of Tyre, and somewhat further South. Tyre is 33°16'15" N, and Babylon is 32°32'33" N. However, the city never says that God brings Nebuchadnezzar on this occasion "from Babylon" the only direction given is "from the North" and Babylon is in the genitive of relationship : Nebuchadnezzar is king of Babylon, and Babylon is city and Empire of Nebuchadnezzar.

Edward Camps clearly admitted that when Nebuchadnezzar arrived, he actually approached Tyre precisely from the North. So, "from the North" means "from the North" - and this is relevant for another city with the same name, Nimrod's very pre-Classical Babel. Why? Because it says "they removed from the East" - and I believe "from the East" means precisely "from the East" ... This is what Edward Camps pretended to disprove by citing Ezechiel.

Most places suggested for the landing place, anything West of Nagorno-Karabakh, given this is historically Armenia (whatever the claims of recent Armenian and Turkish population), and that has never been suggested, as far as I know, going to Classical Babylon would be going TO the East, not FROM it. But even from the Westernmost place actually suggested, Mt Judi, just East of the Tigris, going to Göbekli Tepe is going FROM the East, and that is what Genesis 11 actually has.

38°55′21″E for Göbekli Tepe
42°20′39″E for Mount Judi

To Göbekli Tepe from Mount Judi actually is, precisely, from the East.

Now, the actual text in Louis Segond (I took a Protestant text, because I think Edward Camps is a Protestant), it is sufficiently long to get clearly around this unclarity.

Nebucadnetsar, roi de Babylone, le roi des rois, appears as a block, and "de Babylone" inside it, so it must be part of how Nebuchadnezzar is described, an attribute, and can't be part of how the direction is described, can't be an extra spatial adverbial of direction. But the whole verse is also further away from everyday French. This hints, in order to make French clear, making descriptions long and not totally idiomatic for everyday use, is an asset. That's possibly one complaint some have about my French. But I try to be clear, and I spend quite a lot of time reading more colloquial texts, like comic books, JW tracts (I avoid Watchtower, but sometimes enjoy Awake!), free newspapers like "20 minutes" or earlier also "CNEWS Matin" ... so my French doesn't, in my pursuit of clarity, stray too far from what French people understand without reading it twice.

Spanish also has "de" both for spatial adverb of direction meaning origin of a removal, and for prepositional periphrase of the genitive case. But Italian has "da" for "from" and "di" for "of" ... and here is the Italian text:

Perché così dice il Signore Dio: Io mando da settentrione contro Tiro Nabucodònosor, re di Babilonia, il re dei re, con cavalli, carri e cavalieri e una folla, un popolo immenso.

Got it? It's "re di Babilonia," whereas the only direction is "da settentrione" .../HGL